All the best players play mechanist...

[AliamRationem.5172]

And the best players tend to deal the most damage.

 

[Sunchaser.9854]

You can still outdps them by knowing your class or just fail mechanics on parts of... Well.. Them having a greater tendency to enter raids before they know how to dodge aoe, avoid walking into fire. Standing in bone crusher one shots. Sometimes walking off the edge of meta events and off cliffs and making a raid leader yell at the eles to switch to taxi service. But yeah.

 

It's a build that anyone who plays gw2 to the level that their ele or warrior does 2k dps will do at least 25-28k dps on a mechanist. Because 28k dps is just firing the rifle in ascended and 25k in 0.2 g berserker gear. 😛 

 

People will fight and cherry pick over nonexistent specs that don't exist. But yeah. If you want to beat a video game without putting in any effort to learn a rotation, Mechanist is literally designed to do the snowcrow benches that might as well be a runescape build that afks to 95% 3 tick fishing sharks while cutfishing a barbarian spot and simultaneously tick perfect cooking and eating 3 karambwan, for the same exertion to play as setting up chrome remote desktop to move your character around once per 6 hours in nightmare zone would be for another gamer. 

 

In gw2, walking from boss to boss pressing 1 to loot "challenge modes" is a thing. Even sometimes people in the speedkill challenge run videos will just have their alac mechanist just sit there literally taking their fursona quiz and watching videos while the other 9 sweat, and they literally go afk because whether or not the healer does +- 2k dps to make a 0:52 sec challenge mode kill a slightly faster 0:52 seconds doesn't matter to em lol. It's pretty much the easy mode of video games even by most other game standards. 

[Tails.9372]

The average OW player barely does 2-4k DPS so ofc. everything that's even remotely coherent can top the DPS chart in a PuG squad with little to no effort. But while I do see a lot of Mechanists near the top the "no effort AA spam" still can't compete with people that are at least somewhat trying.

[Sunchaser.9854]

Come to think of it.. I actually wonder if playing gw2 on a phone with chrome Remote desktop would work. People in runescape used to do it for afkables which by runescape's 'terms' were often less than 1 action per 10 seconds.

You could probably just set up a virtual keyboard to move your character around on w or autowalk while taking a jog on a phone, and then just completely unironically use a phone to mouse steer with the virtual keyboard's arrow keys, shoot and masteries for auto loot and literally play gw2 for about the same intensity as fletching yew bows in a bank in runescape. And it'd still be "peak performance". 🤣

 

Sometimes i joke to mechanists who bench under 18k. "You're playing it wrong, you're supposed to make less actions a minute so your dps will rise to 28k" and it'll rise up to like 20k and they're like "lmao that actually worked. Screw you LOL" 

Edited August 9, 2022 by Sunchaser.9854

[SoftFootpaws.9134]

I do consistently see Machinists near the top of the DPS charts every time, usually the top 3 slots, with maybe one other class in there (usually Berserker or Bladesworn, ironically).

 

This is due to the damage the pet gets by inheriting the player's damage stats, not the rifle or anything else. I tested this on my HAM recently and found that I was still doing 6k DPS average in groups and I was still out-DPSing average players in dungeons while camping medkit.

 

Why? Just because I had taken some Power, Precision and Ferocity on my gear (Crusader + Zealot)., which are inherited even without the dedicated trait for it, just with a weaker contribution. Could you imagine the uproar if Ranger pets also worked this way? Laughs in Druid.

 

Scrapper rifle damage with similar builds is considerably lower due to no pet.

 

I've had Machinists on here justify it with "but we lose access to our toolbelt skills!" , but they also gain access to the strongest set of signets in the game (plus Mech skills), which provide the same amount of utility that the toolbelt did and which other Engi specs don't have access to.

Edited August 9, 2022 by Mariyuuna.6508

[Luci.7018]

Don't worry , Teapot is going to make Raid-Strike Speedrun .

If Teapot don't chooses to host CM Temple , then we will have once again the stacking scourges meta .

If he does , then people will whine about anti-meele game.

Edited August 9, 2022 by Luci.7018

[Noodle Ant.1605]

1 hour ago, Mariyuuna.6508 said:

This is due to the damage the pet gets by inheriting the player's damage stats, not the rifle or anything else. I tested this on my HAM recently and found that I was still doing 6k DPS average in groups and I was still out-DPSing average players in dungeons while camping medkit.

 

Why? Just because I had taken some Power, Precision and Ferocity on my gear (Crusader + Zealot)., which are inherited even without the dedicated trait for it, just with a weaker contribution. Could you imagine the uproar if Ranger pets also worked this way? Laughs in Druid.

 

Scrapper rifle damage with similar builds is considerably lower due to no pet.

i think the stat inheritance is fine, the bad bit is that the mech cannot invest into any dmg% modifiers apart from force signet. so in order to have the mech do "big dmg", the devs gave it a weapon strength of ~2500 or something, opposed to the players avg 1000 (with ascended) which translates to at least +100% natural strike damage increase (basically the same as having 4x 20% dmg mods) regardless of whatever traits the engi takes

the problem with aim assisted rocket is actually that the engis rocket uses unarmed weapon strength (690 or ~70%) while the mech gets to use its 2000+. even with the doubled icd on the mech, the trait is still effectively close to doubled when used on mechanist and far less worth otherwise

this was always going to be a problem with detached sources of damage because before mech, mesmer phantasms (who also inherit stats) already had the same 2.5k-3k weapon strength thing. however, phantasms have really bad coefficients (cancelling the increased weapon strength anyway) and require traits like chronophantasma/phantasmal blades that almost doubles their output just to hold a candle to the mechs output

[Fozzie.5370]

4 hours ago, AliamRationem.5172 said:

And the best players tend to deal the most damage.

 

 

Epic post as it summarises in one screen shot how Anet's Bait worked a treat for them: Hook, line and sinker marketing ploy:

>>> Purposely release one VERY OP Elite Spec in EoD Xpac, that will "heavily force" the hand into the pockets of those that did NOT initially purchase EoD, and or had no intention to purchase EoD , or were "on the fence" over-deciding.  Let players see how easy it is to play Mech, and little skill you need to do insane DPS, effectively blowing-away the more complex DPS rotations of other professions. 

Dude kitten?   "Your Mech DPS is insane, and you're telling me you're only pressing 1-2 keys? " Kitten: I'm buy EoD right now: $$$$$$$$$$$$  Anet's money bags filling nicely ! 

Serious props to that Bladesworn dude for playing something other than Mech or Guard 🤣

Edited August 9, 2022 by Greg.7086

[Gibson.4036]

5 hours ago, AliamRationem.5172 said:

And the best players tend to deal the most damage.

 

Nerf bladesworn.

[AliamRationem.5172]

28 minutes ago, Gibson.4036 said:

Nerf bladesworn.

Meta-defining.  Nerf inc.

[Grand Marshal.4098]

Can we nefr Shoutsworn while we are at it for Comp? 

[Tails.9372]

3 hours ago, Mariyuuna.6508 said:

I tested this on my HAM recently and found that I was still doing 6k DPS average in groups and I was still out-DPSing average players in dungeons while camping medkit.

Ofc. you were, but this says more about the performance of the "average player" than it does about the mech.

[godfat.2604]

Average players probably not all moved to Mechanist yet. Clock is ticking 🕰️

Edited August 10, 2022 by godfat.2604
Fix grammar

[Alcatraznc.3869]

I will assume people are all equal skilled player and are all using Snowcrow build. In this situation, Bladesworn would just pump out a lot more DPS than Mechanist. (39k vs 36k).

Now if we lower the skill of the Mechanist to spam 1 with auto cast then the DPS would be around 28k, still competing against the 39k of the Bladesworn.

 

9 hours ago, Greg.7086 said:

 

Epic post as it summarises in one screen shot how Anet's Bait worked a treat for them: Hook, line and sinker marketing ploy:

>>> Purposely release one VERY OP Elite Spec in EoD Xpac, that will "heavily force" the hand into the pockets of those that did NOT initially purchase EoD, and or had no intention to purchase EoD , or were "on the fence" over-deciding.  Let players see how easy it is to play Mech, and little skill you need to do insane DPS, effectively blowing-away the more complex DPS rotations of other professions. 

Dude kitten?   "Your Mech DPS is insane, and you're telling me you're only pressing 1-2 keys? " Kitten: I'm buy EoD right now: $$$$$$$$$$$$  Anet's money bags filling nicely ! 

Serious props to that Bladesworn dude for playing something other than Mech or Guard 🤣

 

Not really, it just show this community thinking ablity is restricted to 1 simple question : Is it meta ?

-If the answer is yes then they will suddenly reroll to the said class

-If the answer is no they will consider it trash

 

I just have to look at how good Druid alac is since the spirit changes and yet everyone is sleeping on that class because Mechanist exist.

[AliamRationem.5172]

31 minutes ago, Alcatraznc.3869 said:

I will assume people are all equal skilled player and are all using Snowcrow build. In this situation, Bladesworn would just pump out a lot more DPS than Mechanist. (39k vs 36k).

Now if we lower the skill of the Mechanist to spam 1 with auto cast then the DPS would be around 28k, still competing against the 39k of the Bladesworn.

 

 

Not really, it just show this community thinking ablity is restricted to 1 simple question : Is it meta ?

-If the answer is yes then they will suddenly reroll to the said class

-If the answer is no they will consider it trash

 

I just have to look at how good Druid alac is since the spirit changes and yet everyone is sleeping on that class because Mechanist exist.

Or maybe they just see the elephant in the room.  Benchmarks mean nothing when one spec can perform close to optimal from range even while handling mechanics because so much of its damage comes from ranged passives, AI, and auto attacks.  That's why mechanists are overperforming.  There's nothing inherently wrong with their benchmarks.  It's just that they don't follow the same rules as every other spec in the game and thus see dramatically different results.

[Alcatraznc.3869]

8 minutes ago, AliamRationem.5172 said:

Or maybe they just see the elephant in the room.  Benchmarks mean nothing when one spec can perform close to optimal from range even while handling mechanics because so much of its damage comes from ranged passives, AI, and auto attacks.  That's why mechanists are overperforming.  There's nothing inherently wrong with their benchmarks.  It's just that they don't follow the same rules as every other spec in the game and thus see dramatically different results.

 

Yeah and the said result is not too high nor too low, just right in the middle of the pack which means it isnt overperforming.

[Sunchaser.9854]

Mechanist is like the equivilent of a spec that if it failed to study for a test, could just write A+ Over F all over it and succeed and actually change the system. It's just so much reward for so little effort. It's pretty much tuned to it's balanced if you're a aimbot, but when it takes 100% of the mechanist actions per minute to perform 33% as well on a ele, 600% of their actions per minute to do 95%, and it's also 1200 ranged, self healing, self mighting, gets downtime where other classes go down, and can easily be brought to flex for alac or healing or dps as needed. it'll see tons of use. Even take a look at griffin/beetle vs skyscale.

Tons of people will say mechanist is balanced because for 600% the actions and frame perfect knowledge of frame perfect play, hidden attack clips, interval charges, you too can match the dps they get for going afk, while any slight delay or 1 second delay can quickly eat 10-40% of other spec's dps. Pressing shift on a beetle is almost about.. 1/34th the effort of a 34 part rotation repeated every 20 seconds... Guess which mount is the dominant mount for being pilotable on one button? XD

Mechanist is pretty much like 99% of people thinking that they could be like the next MLB athlete, but then they just kinda want to sit and chew bubblegum and get the trophies. Fair for that, problem is it's pretty much like the equivilent of a aimbot spec. Where the level required for ANOTHER spec to pass 35k and not reading a snowcrows.. but doing in game.. I haven't actually met anyone in game of 100s to 500s who says they bench the complete 100% of a snowcrows bench. Maybe 80-85% average for a top player. Mechanist has a 4 button rotation to hit 97% of their snowcrow results. The snowcrow rotation only results in 1k dps from like 35k to 36k. 

If you ask people to put 600% the actions per minute required to get 3% of the same result, while adding in a catch that if you miss any one, it might chunk off 40% of the dps in practical results or play. People will gravitate to the easy to play spec, while thinking of themselves as a apmjesus while they bench 2-4k on non Engis on the golem 

 

Edited August 10, 2022 by Sunchaser.9854

[Angesombre.4630]

Instead of asking for nerfs I'm for asking for an up of the others I'd be happy to get back half of what I lost with my revenant.

[Mell.4873]

This is a super bias example and it's in the open world.

The funny thing is other day noticed the same thing but instead of Mechanists they where all Virtuosos, so nerf both elite specialisations? 

The alterative is not to complain so much and just wait for a fix. I mean Virtuoso was pushing 41k and now its at a modest 38k.

Edited August 10, 2022 by Mell.4873

[Sunchaser.9854]

If a glass cannon can't even cannon and involves a complex rotation that 2% of players play, it should be rewarded. If you go to dragon's end or most pugs, you'll see that the average level a player is at, doesn't match the average level they want their snowcrows "rotation" to bench at. If 98% of the population is doing below 2-20k dps. 98% of the population will have a 28k dps afk class do more damage than 98% of their peers for little effort.

 

And even challenge mode speedrunners run mechanist just since the difference of raid dps to golem dps makes 1200 range for 100% uptime, beat +5% more dps, but -30% less uptime on a boss, resulting in 25% less damage. 

Most of the specs that are on snowcrows that beat mechanist also feature warning labels, such as "THIS SPEC ONLY WORKS ON CERTAIN BOSSES, IT DOES NOT WORK ON ALL OF THEM" is like a giant warning text on untamed being dependent on like bosses being able to knocked down, others will label themselves as the highest apm builds in the game that only a few can pilot, a couple will remark that they're glass dps cannons who cannot provide boons and lose dps between phase changes. Others will remark that any mistakes could easily drastically reduce performance 10-40% if keystrokes are missed or a boss isn't a static loot dispenser with invulnerability phases etc. Pretty much, while golems are a good show of potential, there's a reason a spec tuned to 95% of a frame perfect high apm build will be the highest dps for 98% of players, when the amount of people who pass 30k dps in a pug raid or group are like... 1 in 150 non mechanist people.

 

But for mechanist, anyone who can press 4 buttons can hit 35k dps. So it's just a case where the average person playing mechanist will likely outdps 98% of their peers who do not bench 28k afk dps and 99.5% of players who don't bench 35k+ for the 4 button rotation. and 37k ranged dps for a tryhard mechanist rotation isn't bad at all. People who play mechanist just aren't that sweaty enough to start pressing triple the actions per minutes to do 3% more dps a minute.

If they distribute it evenly to fix the problem of like, 98% of players being 2-10k VS 35k potential instead of afking/4 buttons to 28k-35k on one class though, that could fix tons of the damage disparity. 

[Bunny.9834]

greatjob devs! press 1 to win! 

[Alcatraznc.3869]

2 hours ago, Sunchaser.9854 said:

But for mechanist, anyone who can press 4 buttons can hit 35k dps. So it's just a case where the average person playing mechanist will likely outdps 98% of their peers who do not bench 28k afk dps and 99.5% of players who don't bench 35k+ for the 4 button rotation. and 37k ranged dps for a tryhard mechanist rotation isn't bad at all. People who play mechanist just aren't that sweaty enough to start pressing triple the actions per minutes to do 3% more dps a minute.

 

What if 98% of the player in OW just have no idea how to play their class and gear up. Because this is usually the truth behind most cases. It isnt hard to outDPS someone who doesnt know its rotation or doesnt have a good gear. What people refuses to acknowledge (and at this point this is just DE drama V2) is that the AFK mechanist with only spam 1 does not beat any build that requires some input. Power Mechanist with a bit more input doesnt beat the more challenging but rewarding build the meta has to offer. Yeah sure it does beat some builds on other class......but I've never seen anyone actually play the said build before.

[godfat.2604]

Not sure why we need to keep beating the average players in open world. If taking efforts or not is going to win, why try so hard? I often saw sloppy players in Dragonstorm, and when there were not enough players to win the fights easily, those sloppy players often started being serious and then suddenly we did much better and then everything went smoothly next. It’s often more about if it’s worth the effort, not that they’re really bad.

Now think about what if they all just move to Mechanist. Same efforts, much better performance, and they can be even more sloppy now. Will this happen? Isn’t this already happening? What about instanced contents? I think everyone is aware of this already? https://gw2wingman.nevermindcreations.de/popularity It’s quite common that a squad is composed with 4 Mechanists and 2 Firebrands. Fill the rest with a few Virtuoso and everything else. Changing toons always take time. We have more time to see what would happen next.

Note that I never mentioned about the peak performance. It’s not really about top performing, but why the popularity became like this. Keep in mind engineer is also one of the least played professions in history, it takes time for players to create new toons and get them up and running.

Of course, we can also argue that popularity is not something we should balance around. Sure… if we are fine that diversity is dying it’s indeed fine. It’s totally conflicting with the idea Anet has been saying though “Bring the player, not the spec”. Actually, maybe Anet is arguing that it’s just everyone all love to play Mechanist! Totally not forced. They just love it. Why do we need to make people like Mechanist less? Doesn’t that mean Mechanist is so successful (check the leaked contents for reference) that now engineer is no longer the least played professions beyond the healing support Scrapper in WvW?

[Cyninja.2954]

The new auto cast feature on pet skills makes this even funnier.

 

Every other class:

minimum input required for some output.

 

Power Mechanist:

0.1 actions per minute (press 1 to start attacking target) for around 70% of the benchmark. With a pet which can't be cced and will use it's skill at around 80% uptime (basically it checks for available skills after finishing attack chains).

 

Can it be outperformed? Sure, by players which actually press buttons in a semi coherent manner and while not being interrupted by mechanics.

 

If the developers wanted to in any way suggest that they are working on AI companions as new feature for the future expansion, this is the best showcase. Nothing wrong with having LI builds or good pet builds, but does it have to come with absolutely 0 player interaction at this performance level?

On the upside, once all are mechanists, no one will complain about class balance any longer. Open world might look a bit stale class diversity wise though by then.

Edited August 10, 2022 by Cyninja.2954

[AliamRationem.5172]

33 minutes ago, godfat.2604 said:

Not sure why we need to keep beating the average players in open world. If taking efforts or not is going to win, why try so hard? I often saw sloppy players in Dragonstorm, and when there were not enough players to win the fights easily, those sloppy players often started being serious and then suddenly we did much better and then everything went smoothly next. It’s often more about if it’s worth the effort, not that they’re really bad.

Now think about what if they all just move to Mechanist. Same efforts, much better performance, and they can be even more sloppy now. Will this happen? Isn’t this already happening? What about instanced contents? I think everyone is aware of this already? https://gw2wingman.nevermindcreations.de/popularity It’s quite common that a squad is composed with 4 Mechanists and 2 Firebrands. Fill the rest with a few Virtuoso and everything else. Changing toons always take time. We have more time to see what would happen next.

Note that I never mentioned about the peak performance. It’s not really about top performing, but why the popularity became like this. Keep in mind engineer is also one of the least played professions in history, it takes time for players to create new toons and get them up and running.

Of course, we can also argue that popularity is not something we should balance around. Sure… if we are fine that diversity is dying it’s indeed fine. It’s totally conflicting with the idea Anet has been saying though “Bring the player, not the spec”. Actually, maybe Anet is arguing that it’s just everyone all love to play Mechanist! Totally not forced. They just love it. Why do we need to make people like Mechanist less? Doesn’t that mean Mechanist is so successful (check the leaked contents for reference) that now engineer is no longer the least played professions beyond the healing support Scrapper in WvW?

The state of denial in this thread... 🙄

So, let's take a look at that link you provided.  When weaver was at 29.28% representation in fractals it was because players really enjoyed weaver, right?  It had nothing to do with the fact that stacking weavers was a great way to make your group overperform.  Yet somehow today weaver is at 0.54% representation on the same chart.  I wonder what could explain such a dramatic shift?