A message to cmc: Everthing wrong with Warrior in PvP

[AGamer.3168]

This is more or less a message to cmc, I am A Gamer, a dedicated PvPer on Warrior exclusively. I have played since Season 2 PvP and onward, I have seen where the Warrior came from and where it is now, and nothing saddens me more than what happened to the Warrior on Feb 2020 patch and onward. I wanted to display my sorrows and complaints about where the Warrior balance is. The game has many classes, many sub classes, and alot of traits. To balance all that is a daunting task, but I hope I may provide a guideline to where some changes  need to be made on the Warrior.

 

Below are my notes on some issues I feel need addressing with a video to summarize and provide a human aspect.

 

I don't spend time on the forums but if you wish to whisper me: AGamer.3168, if you want to find me in person, when I'm online, I am always in the Arena in the PvP Lobby.

 

[Burst] Arcing Slice  - Range of 150 is incorrect. It's currently at 130.

[Burst] Eviscerate - The animation is timed for 450 range and the current reduced range of 300 stops the movement before the damage calculation is done allowing moving targets to evade.

                   - The 1 might given on a successful hit is negligible, the 5 it previously awarded was a worthwhile amount.

[Burst] Flurry - The imob of 2 seconds isn't enough for the 2.75sec attack animation on the target, You're guaranteed to miss 1/3 of the attack.

                         - Low damage, with the high end of 3k if all attacks crit and hit. 

[Burst] Flaming Flurry - Attacks in a cone pattern, having a chance to miss a standing target.

[Burst] Skull Crack - The name of the attack implies lethality, but it crits for 6, remove the stuns, give it damage. In general, physical attacks should do damage.

[Burst] Full Counter - There exists a bug where full counter animation bubble appears perpetually. (Not in Video)

 

[Trait] Shield Mastery - 1 sec of might on a block is negligible, return it to 5 sec.

[Trait] Lesser Endure Pain & Lesser Balanced Stance - 300 sec cd means they're used only twice in any given match. Reduce it to 60cd.

[Trait] Rousing Resilience - Healing of 1,050 per stun break is low. Both amulets giving an extra 500 healing power and that increases it to 1,100.

[Trait] Might makes Right - The amulets of an additional 500 healing increase the healing from 85 to 95 per second.

[Trait] Adrenal Health - The amulets increase the healing by 15 per second, from 150 to 165.

                                        - Amulets should have a higher impact on traits.

[Trait] Wounding Precision - The 4% expertise increase increases bleeding damage by 5 per second while burning is increased less than 20 per second, with Rabid Amulet. Needs an increase.

[Trait] Bloodlust - The 33% chance to activate it is reduced to luck and chance. Remove the chance, make it 100%.

[Trait] Vigorous Shouts - Healing Power increase is only based on base power, not power gained from outside sources such as Might.

[Trait] Great Fortitude - Same as Vigorous Shouts

[Trait] Warrior's Cunning - 80% of the time it is inactive for the base damage increase. The barrier damage increase of 10% is too low as Tactics isn't a damage trait line. I suggest reworking trait.

[Trait] Leg Specialist - 12 sec cd for 1 sec of immob is too high. Reduce it to the same cd as (No Escape).

[Trait] Roaring Reveille - An increase of 60 concentration is too low. Change it to +5% of both Vitality and Toughness, that'll make it a tactful trait .

[Trait] Loss Aversion - The 50 damage per boon removal is negligible.

[Trait] Revenge Counter - The 20% damage increase on full counter is too small. From 67 to 60+20%.

[Sigil] Sigil of Misery - Doesn't show change in time on Sword off-hand, (Impale)

 

 

Video:

 

Edited September 15, 2022 by AGamer.3168

[Trevor Boyer.6524]

1 hour ago, AGamer.3168 said:

A message to cmc: Everthing wrong with Warrior in PvP

I'm calling it right now, here is what the response will be:

"Warrior is a class favored by Chads, and Chads tend to like being the underdog"

Tell me I'm wrong.

[Hotride.2187]

4 hours ago, Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

I'm calling it right now, here is what the response will be:

"Warrior is a class favored by Chads, and Chads tend to like being the underdog"

Tell me I'm wrong.

I won't lie, I tried other professions and I just go back to spb. There is just something about half of your skills being dysfunctional and/or bad and still coming out on top. Every hit you land, you landed. Every chunk of dmg you evaded, you evaded. No automated bs/nonsense.

But you're wrong, as there will be no response.

Edited September 15, 2022 by Hotride.2187

[DanAlcedo.3281]

5 hours ago, Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

I'm calling it right now, here is what the response will be:

"Warrior is a class favored by Chads, and Chads tend to like being the underdog"

Tell me I'm wrong.

Everytime I do 5 dmg, I remember that the true dmg is emotional from my ultra chad aura. 

 

[Eddbopkins.2630]

Even with all the bugs, and seemingly underpowered skills mentioned, warrior still hits like a truck. 

[Lonecap.4105]

1 hour ago, Eddbopkins.2630 said:

Even with all the bugs, and seemingly underpowered skills mentioned, warrior still hits like a truck. 

I think the real issue is, Bladesworn aside, other classes also hit like trucks whilst their key bursts are easier to land, and they usually have better active defenses.

[Esufer.8762]

You forgot Rush on Greatsword being a totally "reliable" skill that always works "100%" of the time.

[Nova.4608]

5 hours ago, Eddbopkins.2630 said:

Even with all the bugs, and seemingly underpowered skills mentioned, warrior still hits like a truck. 

No they really don't, unless you mean Bladesworn. And even then, Bladesworn's not renowned for their damage but for their bugs preventing avoiding of said damage. 

On core/spb the most damage you can do with a perfectly landed combo on a target is around 15 to 17k. That's quite literally nothing when you factor in that landing a perfect combo is nearly impossible (No aegis, blind, evades, protection, weakness and other misc effects) and takes the entirety of your kit and weapons, aswell as being the class with the most telegraphed attacks and the slowest. 

On comparison on Herald you can easily reach a 15k burst and exceed it by simply pressing Chilling Isolation, Shackling Wave into Unrelenting Assault with Enchanted Daggers and Impossible Odds active. And that's using 3 buttons with 2 pre-casts, it's not even half of the potential damage you can reach if you were to correctly employ the entire kit available to the class.

Warrior doesn't hit like a truck, the damage it deals is negligible if you somehow get hit by one in the first place.

Edited September 15, 2022 by Nova.4608

[Lighter.5631]

LOL, i applause you for fighting the urge to compare it to other classes.

 

anyway.

Loss Aversion is fine, it is so good compared to other traits, it is used primary as adrenaline gain trait anyway and is so crucial for pvp spellbreaker.

leg specialist having CD is also fine and it also has a 7% damage increase.

i'd suggest for 9 second cooldown, to match the weapon swap.

 

The actual real problem i'd add is:

 

Cull the weak:

the cooldown is not separated for enemies, so even if you bring 5 enemies below 50% at the same time, you can only weaken ONE SINGLE enemy, which is so stupid, with other classes having so many AoE weakness, i can't even comprehend, while leg specialist can immobilize all enemy crippled.

 

Mace 5:

it one single projectile CC..like wth..how is it a projectile. a single one at that and move so slowly and not unblockable.

we already know all the cons of killshot, this is even worse.

 

and every single tier 1 burst skills is garbage other then greatsword and dagger

problem was ignored as most people only look at tier 3 skills, but with spellbreaker, we all realize tier 1 burst is just as important as tier 3 burst, and all tier 1 burst are garbage except greatsword and dagger.

remember when they reduced longbow tier 1 burst radius and completely killed the weapon and had to reverse the change.

yea, tier 1 burst just as important and needs to be actually usable.

 

[bethekey.8314]

3 hours ago, Nova.4608 said:

 

Warrior doesn't hit like a truck, the damage it deals is negligible if you somehow get hit by one in the first place.

I feel the need for 2 stunbreaks against Warrior more than any other class. This is because, unlike Warrior, they rarely kill in 1 stun or do not have such strong setups. This is not negligible damage and it can happen on Core, Berserker, Spellbreaker, and Bladesworn.

This isn't to say core Warrior is strong. Just keeping facts straight.

I'm also tired of the "if you somehow manage to get hit" telegraph excuse. Yes, many skills are telegraphed. No, they're not all avoidable. Warrior has the tools to force dodges, stunbreaks etc. to ensure key skills hit.

[Nova.4608]

1 hour ago, bethekey.8314 said:

I feel the need for 2 stunbreaks against Warrior more than any other class. This is because, unlike Warrior, they rarely kill in 1 stun or do not have such strong setups. This is not negligible damage and it can happen on Core, Berserker, Spellbreaker, and Bladesworn.

This isn't to say core Warrior is strong. Just keeping facts straight.

I'm also tired of the "if you somehow manage to get hit" telegraph excuse. Yes, many skills are telegraphed. No, they're not all avoidable. Warrior has the tools to force dodges, stunbreaks etc. to ensure key skills hit.

What tools are you even talking about? You have Bull's Charge and Shield Bash that are mandatory to execute the burst setup and at most you have rampage to draw out cooldowns and stunbreaks with. A 120 baseline cooldown elite ability. You have to rely on gimmicks like stowing your weapon on Arcing Slice to bait people's dodges with, something that I can tell you from personal experience doesn't work against even bottom plat/high gold players.

I quite literally cannot recall the last time I got a warrior to even set up his burst sequence on me, let alone allowed him to execute it. You don't even need a single stunbreak all you have to do is to simply use map features such as LoS and dislevels to your advantage to completely negate the entire class. Stunbreaks are just the cherry on top if you kitten up or get baited 

You being tired of getting told the truth doesn't change the facts nor the hard numbers presented by Spb/core/berserker representation (or complete lack-there-of) in any meaningful Spvp.

Edited September 15, 2022 by Nova.4608

[felix.2386]

12 hours ago, Eddbopkins.2630 said:

Even with all the bugs, and seemingly underpowered skills mentioned, warrior still hits like a truck. 

there are a few selected skills hit like a truck, and is buffed through anet when warrior was completely not played.

anet just looking at like that one or two warrior build which used to be viable and say here's more damage and be happy and hopefully it becomes playable again.

aka bladesworn and power spellbreaker(greatsword f1, dagger)

 

while the rest of warrior like 85% of warrior hit like wet noodle and was never looked at.

they just keep given buff to the one same build which used to be good and hoping it become viable again, while the rest of warrior crumbles.

 

just like bullcharge, shake it off, they overload bull charge, shake it off so it finally become viable, while the rest of the utility skills crumble and never looked at ever. instead of fixing warrior's core problem

 

to them, warrior having one build playable is job well done.

Edited September 16, 2022 by felix.2386

[bethekey.8314]

5 hours ago, Nova.4608 said:

What tools are you even talking about? You have Bull's Charge and Shield Bash that are mandatory to execute the burst setup and at most you have rampage to draw out cooldowns and stunbreaks with.

I'm not here to teach you how to Warrior. Ask someone like OP for help.

5 hours ago, Nova.4608 said:

A 120 baseline cooldown elite ability.

Like many elites.

5 hours ago, Nova.4608 said:

You have to rely on gimmicks like stowing your weapon on Arcing Slice to bait people's dodges with, something that I can tell you from personal experience doesn't work against even bottom plat/high gold players.

This is common practice among classes/builds with burst setups.

5 hours ago, Nova.4608 said:

I quite literally cannot recall the last time I got a warrior to even set up his burst sequence on me, let alone allowed him to execute it. You don't even need a single stunbreak all you have to do is to simply use map features such as LoS and dislevels to your advantage to completely negate the entire class. Stunbreaks are just the cherry on top if you kitten up or get baited 

You being tired of getting told the truth doesn't change the facts nor the hard numbers presented by Spb/core/berserker representation (or complete lack-there-of) in any meaningful Spvp.

I'd love to see you play a variety of classes, without a stunbreak, and 1v1 standard warrior variants without getting hit by a burst skill. Against a competent warrior of course. If you don't have recording capability, just message me in game and I can spectate + record.  It should be easy for you and it'll prove your point.

[Azure The Heartless.3261]

Hey uh, @bethekey.8314 is right. Just chiming in.

 

The damage is fine, wars just need a smidge better uptime on some mitigation tools to deal with people who can do damage in between those situations where they -must- dodge this or die.

 

The below is rational. Play glass and you can dispatch people quickly. The problen is people that know about that have more options to wear you down, and wearing a war down is trivial compared to other classes (weakness/blind practically do it for you).

7 hours ago, bethekey.8314 said:

I feel the need for 2 stunbreaks against Warrior more than any other class. This is because, unlike Warrior, they rarely kill in 1 stun or do not have such strong setups. This is not negligible damage and it can happen on Core, Berserker, Spellbreaker, and Bladesworn.

This isn't to say core Warrior is strong. Just keeping facts straight.

I'm also tired of the "if you somehow manage to get hit" telegraph excuse. Yes, many skills are telegraphed. No, they're not all avoidable. Warrior has the tools to force dodges, stunbreaks etc. to ensure key skills hit.

War underperforming but its not the damage (outside of hammer stunlocking builds).

Force dodges though, im in disagreement with.  maybe. They need more mitigation to live while they're doing that dodge forcing.  Not much, just a splash of resistance and some cooldowns shaved would go a long way into enabling some truly terrifying players.

Edited September 16, 2022 by Azure The Heartless.3261

[Shagie.7612]

I think it's really stupid that skills like Flaming Flurry and a bunch of the longbow attacks are extremely bad at hitting moving targets, and can even whiff stationary ones. Imagine Ranger's LB skills struggled that frequently? It'd be absurd for it to happen to them, so why does it happen for Warrior?

A lot of core warrior stuff is outclassed with how the game's changed, but I also find things like Flurry really frustrating, in that you can land a full one and come out as the loser of the trade (mostly as a result of powercreep in terms of damage, sustain, cleansing). I don't think a class that's so heavily set up and combo based should be experiencing that.

There's other things, like reconsidering CC doing 0 damage, zerker being zerker lol, and so on, but the major things I notice when playing non-Bladesworn aren't just number issues.

Obviously, you can change up numbers to cover for those, and that's probably the most likely option, but it becomes a delicate balancing game that can easily get out of hand down the line as you make other changes.

[Zekent.3652]

Still a pretty good video, there are so many outdated things on warrior, this list is nice.

[Dr Meta.3158]

 

[Jagdtiger.2517]

They need to buff core warrior and berserker and just remove spellbreaker from the game. Nobody enjoys spellbreaker, playing it or fighting against it. I actually can't play the class that I mained since 2017 because spellbreaker is so boring. 

[noiwk.2760]

and yet warrior especially spell breaker especially with hammer is by far the most braindead op bs in the game right now...  what warrior really need is a nerf a big fat nerf to defense traitline both to adrenal health and remove the disgusting hammer / mace trait that gives 20% more dmg which is more than grand master traits on offensive traitlines for other classes that gives on avrage 10% dmg ...  but this one not only give 20% but also fill your adrenaline every time you disable enemy (every hit)  on top of that perma CC and 13k crit hammer 2 with 4 seconds CD uncompare able defensive being heavy armor with highest HP having adrenal health sick utility skills passive condi cleaning 2 condi clean every burst with spell breaker perma weakness from burst reduce dmg and full counter on top of that perma CC enemy who dont attack dont do dmg. .   if thats not enough above decent mobility..   yes .. right  nerf this bs 

[shion.2084]

On 9/15/2022 at 4:16 PM, bethekey.8314 said:

I feel the need for 2 stunbreaks against Warrior more than any other class. This is because, unlike Warrior, they rarely kill in 1 stun or do not have such strong setups. This is not negligible damage and it can happen on Core, Berserker, Spellbreaker, and Bladesworn.

This isn't to say core Warrior is strong. Just keeping facts straight.

I'm also tired of the "if you somehow manage to get hit" telegraph excuse. Yes, many skills are telegraphed. No, they're not all avoidable. Warrior has the tools to force dodges, stunbreaks etc. to ensure key skills hit.

A good tools Holo will definitely have you wanting two stun breaks…. Minimum.  There burst will delete most folks otherwise.

[Ovark.2514]

I really hope CMC sees this. I agree with pretty much everything said.

[Yerlock.4678]

bump.

[Azure The Heartless.3261]

On 9/16/2022 at 12:05 AM, Azure The Heartless.3261 said:

Not much, just a splash of resistance and some cooldowns shaved would go a long way into enabling some truly terrifying players.

 

The prophecy

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

1 hour ago, Azure The Heartless.3261 said:

 

The prophecy

Oscuro may be the High Priest, but you are the Prophet.

[noneHotBuildTest.7251]

On 1/4/2023 at 5:40 PM, Dr Meta.3158 said:

 

 

First spellbreaker now you can do 20k damge with berserker.

WTF, Why make warrior op as engineer?

Is that fun to build a op class?