Improve the New Player Experience, ArenaNet!

[Urud.4925]

After watching the umpteenth video of a "Veteran WoW/FF14 mom playing GW2 for the first time" and feeling very sad for the clear confusions these players had, and having to reply to correct some of the misinformation written in the comments, I think it's time to talk about the New Player Experience. The community can't always step-in to inform these players! And it's a shame because the game deserves more attention.

Almost everyone able to reach level 50 or 60, finds this game a very good one. But passing the very first levels is a daunting experience. I, myself, dropped the game after reaching level 10, the first time that I played it, 7 years ago, just to come back after 1 year and playing it every day since then.

I often disagree when people say "it becomes better after 300 hours", and I hate to use this cliché also for GW2, but the starting experience is really bad. Just have a look at some of the many new videos on YouTube, uploaded in the last 6 months.

 

Now, adding a proper tutorial would require some big work, and it's probably a bit late, but I think there are very easy way to improve the first experience for new players, based on the reviews that I watched recently:

1.  Remove those 2 icons advertising the expansions at the very beginning. Add them, but not as soon as you load the game for the first time. It seems a mobile game. Do it after level 50 or 60, when the player should be more invested in the story. No one would consider the purchase at the beginning of a "trial", otherwise they would have already bought it.

2.  Remove the pop-ups of the new achievements for the new Character Adventure Guide. No one clicked on them. The idea that a player would click on the achievement or in the quest log to open the achievement tab and check all the "tutorial" is not real. No one does it. Leave the quest log, since they are a guide to follow (maybe even expand it to show 5 achievements instead of 3) but remove the pop-up at the bottom right once you complete these achievements. Less flashy things on screen mean less confusion.

3.  For the six gods, please put somewhere that the next chapter of the story will be unlocked at level 10, and then 20 and so on. Something like "Next story chapter will be unlocked at lv10. Explore the world 'til then!" People are lost without a quest log to follow and someone thought that they accidentally hid the quest log.

4.  The "once-new" bags with gear that drop in the starting areas could be improved. Many players found quite useless that they had to open the same bag to have the same gear, just to fill their inventory. Stop dropping those bags once they opened (and not equipped) one of them (for each piece). And put a random combination of statistic: no one understood that they had to select the stats. This is a too complicated choice to ask to a new player. Put something generic like power and thoughness.

5.  Since you have put a lot of arrows with tooltips, you may consider adding a new one for the first time a player enters a questing area and the heart pops-up in the top right corner of the screen. I know it sounds dumb, but there are unfortunately few blind players that didn't even notice that they were working on a quest.

6.  A good note: good job on adding the profession's difficulty at the character creation. I didn't notice it.

 

There are probably other easy changes that would reduce the confusion at the beginning (feel free to suggest more, especially if you are a new player!), but I think these are the most important from what I've seen.

[Gehenna.3625]

Agreed and especially point 3. A lot of MMOs are guided by quests so people know where to go. This game doesn't do that really and that can confuse a lot of players because they wouldn't be used to that.

[Sobx.1758]

44 minutes ago, Urud.4925 said:

2.  Remove the pop-ups of the new achievements for the new Character Adventure Guide. No one clicked on them. The idea that a player would click on the achievement or in the quest log to open the achievement tab and check all the "tutorial" is not real. No one does it. Leave the quest log, since they are a guide to follow (maybe even expand it to show 5 achievements instead of 3) but remove the pop-up at the bottom right once you complete these achievements. Less flashy things on screen mean less confusion.

I don't think I'll agree with that. The first pop-up is a good way to make the player click on it, which in turn gets them to the character adventure guide achievement category. You're saying the game needs a guide and I'd say locking these from popping out is going against what the new players need.

That said, since it's per character and the players won't exactly need it (or won't need to be directed where to find those beyond the first character), there should be a way to opt out of them completely (or, at least lock their notifications). They shouldn't be locked by default though, since that would go against their purpose.

44 minutes ago, Urud.4925 said:

3.  For the six gods, please put somewhere that the next chapter of the story will be unlocked at level 10, and then 20 and so on. Something like "Next story chapter will be unlocked at lv10. Explore the world 'til then!" People are lost without a quest log to follow and someone thought that they accidentally hid the quest log.

When you reach level 10, there's a pop up telling you about the story you've just unlocked. After clicking on it, it points at the top right corner to explain ~"following green markers will guide you to/through the story". Whether you click on the individual "level up story information" or not, after clicking "accept", the very next pop-up window tells you about "upcoming level rewards", which includes "personal story chapter 2 at level 20". Hovering over that, simply re-states "you will get personal story chapter 2 at level 20".

So it seems it already tells the player that.

44 minutes ago, Urud.4925 said:

5.  Since you have put a lot of arrows with tooltips, you may consider adding a new one for the first time a player enters a questing area and the heart pops-up in the top right corner of the screen. I know it sounds dumb, but there are unfortunately few blind players that didn't even notice that they were working on a quest.

When you get within the range of the heart, it pops-up on the top right like you've said while moving the achievements panel lower, that heart (in the top-right notification) glows up for a moment and there's a sound effect -all of that will repeat whenever you leave and re-enter the range of the heart. If someone doesn't notice that, I'm not sure how much adding an arrow will help. IF it would be added though, I hope it'll just be there for the first time the player comes near the heart in their character's race-specific low level zone. Or, again, add an option to opt-out. I don't feel the need for more clutter on the screen and it feels that after understanding the game aleady rather clearly tells you when you're in range of the heart, noticing it again shouldn't be a problem at all.

[MashMash.1645]

2 hours ago, Urud.4925 said:

After watching the umpteenth video of a "Veteran WoW/FF14 mom playing GW2 for the first time" and feeling very sad for the clear confusions these players had, and having to reply to correct some of the misinformation written in the comments, I think it's time to talk about the New Player Experience. The community can't always step-in to inform these players! And it's a shame because the game deserves more attention.

Almost everyone able to reach level 50 or 60, finds this game a very good one. But passing the very first levels is a daunting experience. I, myself, dropped the game after reaching level 10, the first time that I played it, 7 years ago, just to come back after 1 year and playing it every day since then.

I often disagree when people say "it becomes better after 300 hours", and I hate to use this cliché also for GW2, but the starting experience is really bad. Just have a look at some of the many new videos on YouTube, uploaded in the last 6 months.

 

Now, adding a proper tutorial would require some big work, and it's probably a bit late, but I think there are very easy way to improve the first experience for new players, based on the reviews that I watched recently:

1.  Remove those 2 icons advertising the expansions at the very beginning. Add them, but not as soon as you load the game for the first time. It seems a mobile game. Do it after level 50 or 60, when the player should be more invested in the story. No one would consider the purchase at the beginning of a "trial", otherwise they would have already bought it.

2.  Remove the pop-ups of the new achievements for the new Character Adventure Guide. No one clicked on them. The idea that a player would click on the achievement or in the quest log to open the achievement tab and check all the "tutorial" is not real. No one does it. Leave the quest log, since they are a guide to follow (maybe even expand it to show 5 achievements instead of 3) but remove the pop-up at the bottom right once you complete these achievements. Less flashy things on screen mean less confusion.

3.  For the six gods, please put somewhere that the next chapter of the story will be unlocked at level 10, and then 20 and so on. Something like "Next story chapter will be unlocked at lv10. Explore the world 'til then!" People are lost without a quest log to follow and someone thought that they accidentally hid the quest log.

4.  The "once-new" bags with gear that drop in the starting areas could be improved. Many players found quite useless that they had to open the same bag to have the same gear, just to fill their inventory. Stop dropping those bags once they opened (and not equipped) one of them (for each piece). And put a random combination of statistic: no one understood that they had to select the stats. This is a too complicated choice to ask to a new player. Put something generic like power and thoughness.

5.  Since you have put a lot of arrows with tooltips, you may consider adding a new one for the first time a player enters a questing area and the heart pops-up in the top right corner of the screen. I know it sounds dumb, but there are unfortunately few blind players that didn't even notice that they were working on a quest.

6.  A good note: good job on adding the profession's difficulty at the character creation. I didn't notice it.

 

There are probably other easy changes that would reduce the confusion at the beginning (feel free to suggest more, especially if you are a new player!), but I think these are the most important from what I've seen.

 

1. Yep.

2. Those all tell you about the numerous systems in the game though. The very systems that people ask about later and say, "Gee, I've played for 200 hours and never knew that." They were added specifically to draw attention to them. If you remove them, hwo will people know about them? You need to offer a better replacement. I agree they are a bit spammy tho.

3. Yep.

4. "This is a too complicated choice to ask to a new player. Put something generic like power and thoughness."

Funnily enough the story rewards DO EXACTLY THIS. You get like 3 items offered and they have power/precision, toughness/vitality, etc and the stats are set and sometimes with runes or gems - all the way to 80. The dropped gear is sort of useless tbh, unless to salvage and sell mats.

5. Yes. But also, more pop-ups? Hmm.

6. I didn't notice that either. Though it was good.

As a sidenote thier is something to be said also for 'finding stuff out yourself' as well. Gotta get the balance right I supose.

Edited October 13, 2022 by MashMash.1645

[Randulf.7614]

The problem is, it’s changed soooo many times now. How many more times does the NPE need fixing? I mean understand they take feedback from new players to shape each iteration, but I always felt they got it right off the bat 10 years ago (why does the story need level brackets now anyway? I agree with point 3, but I’d just remove the requirements altogether and put it back how it was)

I’m not against further changes, but every time they do, it takes time off of new things

[SoftFootpaws.9134]

2 hours ago, Randulf.7614 said:

The problem is, it’s changed soooo many times now. How many more times does the NPE need fixing? I mean understand they take feedback from new players to shape each iteration, but I always felt they got it right off the bat 10 years ago (why does the story need level brackets now anyway? I agree with point 3, but I’d just remove the requirements altogether and put it back how it was)

I’m not against further changes, but every time they do, it takes time off of new things

Its a decade old game, without a new influx of players 24/7 it will die, and then we'll have nothing to play. Veteran players seem to keep forgetting this, and the mentality has become really bad.

Edited October 14, 2022 by Mariyuuna.6508

[Mortime.1359]

Pretty sure FF14 also has a similar problem. In both GW2 and FF14 the game generally gets strong praise from its audience and has overall positive reviews. Yet the player base is generally constantly shrinking because the core game in both examples is just culling a large amount of possible new players. FF14 now managed to increase its player base thanks to WoW refugees fleeing to it thanks to it being so similar to WoW yet even with that the realm reborn MSQ remains as a constant issue that burns out new players.

 

It's basically a survivorship bias, both games get glowing reviews from the players that have managed to beat the dreadful early game thanks to the merits of the games actually being good later, yet the player bases keep shrinking because the new player experience keeps turning a lot of new players away. And we generally don't hear too much about these issues because those new players rarely leave any feedback on the issues they encountered.

Edited October 14, 2022 by Mortime.1359

[Linken.6345]

With all the new experience you get from the character growth the npe 1-80 is over in what max 30 hours?

If you cant put in 30 hours before you quit then would anything really have changed your mind anyway?

[Inculpatus cedo.9234]

The Devs just changed the New Player Experience in August.  I doubt they will change it again so soon.  https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/New_Player_Experience

[Gibson.4036]

I find it sad that players get lost without a quest train to follow.

Originally, there were no hearts in the game. The vision was for zones filled with dynamic events to organically explore. In early testing, enough players were confused that they added renown hearts to give some focus, hoping that players would discover the dynamic events along the way. And, of course, we have the guides who will tell you about who needs help in the local area.

The organic, exploratory nature of GW2 is one of the core things I love about this game. It's disappointing that people have been so trained by the typical MMO that it's hard for us to just go out and discover a world.

Instead of introducing more and more hand-holding into the game to help, I wish there were a way to more clearly convey, "Hey, this isn't Perfect World, try just exploring a little, you'll find some wonderful stuff that way."

[kharmin.7683]

16 minutes ago, Gibson.4036 said:

I find it sad that players get lost without a quest train to follow.

Originally, there were no hearts in the game. The vision was for zones filled with dynamic events to organically explore. In early testing, enough players were confused that they added renown hearts to give some focus, hoping that players would discover the dynamic events along the way. And, of course, we have the guides who will tell you about who needs help in the local area.

The organic, exploratory nature of GW2 is one of the core things I love about this game. It's disappointing that people have been so trained by the typical MMO that it's hard for us to just go out and discover a world.

Instead of introducing more and more hand-holding into the game to help, I wish there were a way to more clearly convey, "Hey, this isn't Perfect World, try just exploring a little, you'll find some wonderful stuff that way."

I agree.  I wonder if this is due to new players wanting to rush to level 80 and end game content in a 10 year old game rather than level up and explore like many of us veterans did over the years.  /shrug

[fenriswolfman.5486]

Its been revamped entirely at least twice. This isnt even close to what the game launched with. Consider that. This is the "better" version.

Its likely though that the people who did that work are all gone now. Let the new blood have a shot at it.

[Danikat.8537]

1 hour ago, kharmin.7683 said:

I agree.  I wonder if this is due to new players wanting to rush to level 80 and end game content in a 10 year old game rather than level up and explore like many of us veterans did over the years.  /shrug

I feel the same way and I think a lot of it comes from people expecting all MMOs to be the same.

I see this with Elder Scrolls Online as well. People come into it going "I played WoW for 10 years" or "I played X other MMOs for years" and either way they assume that means they know exactly how their new one will work because of course it's going to be just like the last one they played, since MMOs are all the same. ESO is more similar to WoW, but in some ways that just causes more confusion because it takes longer for them to realise they differences, or they keep trying to force it to be something it's not and can't see why because the square peg is almost small enough to go through the round hole and they're sure if they just keep shoving it'll work.

I suspect some of this is even more extreme for streamers because first and foremost they're trying to make entertaining video for their audience, they can't spend too long hanging around reading descriptions and figuring out how things work, and need to project the idea that they're knowledgeable and experienced players worth paying attention to. So they've got even more of an incentive than most people to rush things, assuming they know what they're doing and hoping it'll work out.

I think GW2 is a prime example of a game that benefits from going into things with minimal expectations and seeing what you can find, what you can do and watching what happens as a result.

That goes for experienced players too. I recently started making Exordium so I need a lot of crystalline ore and don't often have time to do the Dragon's Stand meta, so when I have a bit of time I go into the map to see which pods I can find. I've done the meta a lot over the years and thought I knew the map fairly well as a result but I'd forgotten how much is accessible even without the events running (right down to the entrance to the Blighting Trees) and how many side paths and other areas there are. I've actually been having a lot of fun just running around non-meta maps seeing what I can find.

[Urud.4925]

17 hours ago, Sobx.1758 said:

I don't think I'll agree with that. The first pop-up is a good way to make the player click on it, which in turn gets them to the character adventure guide achievement category. You're saying the game needs a guide and I'd say locking these from popping out is going against what the new players need.

[...]

When you reach level 10, there's a pop up telling you about the story you've just unlocked. After clicking on it, it points at the top right corner to explain ~"following green markers will guide you to/through the story".

[...]

 If someone doesn't notice that, I'm not sure how much adding an arrow will help. IF it would be added though, I hope it'll just be there for the first time the player comes near the heart in their character's race-specific low level zone.

I said to remove the new pop-ups on the right, only because in these videos I've never seen any streamer that actually clicked on them to open the achievement tab. Some of them didn't even collect the reward for leveling up... But you're right, it's probably better to keep them. After all, they see the "quests" in the quest log, so it's fair that they will see a message when they complete the missions, rather than just let them disappear from the quest log. I changed my mind, thank you!

About the story, yes, you will have the pop-up, but at level 10. Reaching level 10 is a breeze for a veteran player, but I saw so many players completely lost after the very first story mission, when they are thrown into the open world, and without something to follow they start to farm mobs to level up, sometimes even after that they already completed the heart and didn't notice it.

Maybe the arrow to highlight the very first heart quest (and only the first one) is not necessary. If someone can't see the pop-up and can't even hear the audio effect, maybe it's a lost battle anyway (the fun thing is that many of these players come from FF14, where they are supposed to pay attention to the text).

 

16 hours ago, MashMash.1645 said:

Funnily enough the story rewards DO EXACTLY THIS. You get like 3 items offered and they have power/precision, toughness/vitality, etc and the stats are set and sometimes with runes or gems - all the way to 80. The dropped gear is sort of useless tbh, unless to salvage and sell mats.

Here I'm talking in particular about the very first impression, that it's very sad to watch on youtube, so the bracket 2-10, before the story rewards. And this "new" blue gear cannot be salvaged nor sold. I started a new character this week, played in 3 starting areas and I collected more than 30 pieces. I put them in the bank, hoping to throw them in the mystic forge, at level 35, but I can't even do that. A new player usually doesn't know if something is useful or not, and that feeling when your 20-slot bag is full and you have to stop and decide to discard something, is not pleasant ("hmm, a trophy, maybe is useful?").

15 hours ago, Randulf.7614 said:

why does the story need level brackets now anyway?

I started to play 7 years ago, so I don't know how it was at the release. Was it without brackets? I find difficult to imagine that you can play all the story in a row and fight Zhaitan at level 30, unless you introduce upscaling.

The point is, let the new players know that the story is not over, and point them to explore the world (luckily, most of the new player talk to the scouts, that's a good thing at least).

10 hours ago, Mortime.1359 said:

Pretty sure FF14 also has a similar problem.

[...]

It's basically a survivorship bias, both games get glowing reviews from the players that have managed to beat the dreadful early game thanks to the merits of the games actually being good later, yet the player bases keep shrinking because the new player experience keeps turning a lot of new players away.

I played FF14 because "forced" by a colleague of mine and I didn't like it, even after 250 hours. But I didn't like it because it was boring, not because I didn't understand what to do. I've never been lost, there was always a quest to follow, an NPC with an exclamation mark above the head and a dungeon to run. Now, I don't want quest logs and yellow exclamation marks in GW2. At all. The game would lose that freedom of exploration and discovery. But I think that some text to inform the new players that a new story chapter will be available at lv10, and they are "invited" to explore the world (rather than farming mobs, like a generic Metin 2), is already a direction. Generic, but better than nothing.

2 hours ago, Gibson.4036 said:

I find it sad that players get lost without a quest train to follow.

Originally, there were no hearts in the game. The vision was for zones filled with dynamic events to organically explore. In early testing, enough players were confused that they added renown hearts to give some focus, hoping that players would discover the dynamic events along the way. And, of course, we have the guides who will tell you about who needs help in the local area.

The organic, exploratory nature of GW2 is one of the core things I love about this game. It's disappointing that people have been so trained by the typical MMO that it's hard for us to just go out and discover a world.

Instead of introducing more and more hand-holding into the game to help, I wish there were a way to more clearly convey, "Hey, this isn't Perfect World, try just exploring a little, you'll find some wonderful stuff that way."

Totally agree with the sentiment. It's disheartening to watch some of these first impressions and see so many "veteran" players lost. It's a pity for the game, it doesn't deserve it. I don't want to change GW2 to appeal players used to play other MMOs and make it easier for them.

My point in this thread is: there are players that are unable to even read 3 lines of text, to understand how to complete a quest, and you can't do much about them. But there are also people that would probably love the game but quit after the first impression. Revamping the very first mission (for example those "hands" in Shaemoor) requires time, and probably it's not worth the effort, but there are minor things that could be changed very easily imo, to avoid that "and now, what am I supposed to do?". But only in the very first levels! I don't want that the game holds my hands constantly.

[Aelin.9317]

9 hours ago, Linken.6345 said:

With all the new experience you get from the character growth the npe 1-80 is over in what max 30 hours?

If you cant put in 30 hours before you quit then would anything really have changed your mind anyway?

30 hours I can put into playing an entire old jrpg. That is not a small amount of time to ask. I know MMO's you can sink thousands of hours into with ease but the opening hours need to be good or you will lose people within the first couple hours. 

Plenty people only have a couple hours a night to play and if their first evening playing felt bad why would they spent the little time they have the following day to try it again? 

When I hit level 10 and realised I needed another 10 levels to do my next story I did feel quite lost and a bit bummed because I wanted to carry on the story. I ended up enjoying the exploring a lot, but plenty people when they feel so lost without a little guide will just leave. The go out and explore took me by surprise because I just never had that in another MMO really, I imagine I am not alone in having felt that way. 

Myself I first installed gw2 about a year and a half ago and uninstalled it within the same day, mostly I didn't like how old the game felt at first. But I did that my first time with ffxiv so when I came back to give it a second try more recently I really enjoyed it once I put some more time into it. But I never would have even done that had it not been for WoW ripping off the griffon/skyscale and all the comparisons that came with it making me want to try it! 

Glad I tried the game again and very grateful to the community being so helpful for all the times I get stuck on things or confused ^.^

[DeanBB.4268]

I'm most familiar with the human story since I do key runs, but the cut scene that follows the tutorial tells you to "go out and help in the valley." Pretty sure each story tells you something similar.

I think "skip" is the biggest problem. Skip the cut scene, don't bother reading the level up info, don't look at the pop-ups.

If you go out and do the 5 hearts in front of you "in the valley" you'll be level 10 and get mail that tells you you are ready to start the story.

Plus, in this day and age, there is endless help available on the internet. If they care, they'll look.

[SlayerXX.7138]

On 10/13/2022 at 10:58 PM, Urud.4925 said:

the starting experience is really bad.

Staring experience is good. Its mostly just confusing if anything. Its not even the experience that is confusing, its the whole systems. They tried to make it better but didn't make it really better. Steam was the last big push they did. That ship has sailed. Beginner experience is of the table now. Every halve attempt they may squeeze in will be ineffective.

GW 2 like most long running MMO's suffer from bloat and there is no real fixing that. The best way to start any old MMO is to ignore everything they throw at you anyway. Like the Preview of levels unlocks, they thousand locked things in the interface and so on and on and on. I did skip through the video you were referring. I absolutely get why that Person got confused. Even with all other (8 panels now?) things on the Hero panel locked they did miss the Equipment panel in all the Interface noise. MMO's in general have so much noise. Even WoW and they adjust that Stuff every other expansion and have a very clear experience till 80, when the system bloats start kicking in.

 

MMO's live in there own Bubble. You will always lose people as MMO's are very niche. Like the video your referred to People kitten so hard on that Person, they came out an Apologized for being confused by a confusing(bloated) Interface. Made a second video still confused as kitten, but didn't dare to be critical this time to be safe from the Wrath of the fanboys. Its Hilarious.

 

 

 

[Urud.4925]

2 hours ago, Albi.7250 said:

MMO's live in there own Bubble. You will always lose people as MMO's are very niche. Like the video your referred to People kitten so hard on that Person, they came out an Apologized for being confused by a confusing(bloated) Interface. Made a second video still confused as kitten, but didn't dare to be critical this time to be safe from the Wrath of the fanboys. Its Hilarious.

Ahah, so you understood one of the videos I was referring to :)  Yeah, it's clear that she's playing the second impression just because she had too many bad comments on the first one, but it's clear she's not enjoying the game. It's sad to watch. Like the other more famous streamer that had to play FF14 for the second time, because he received too many bad comments on the first video. It's part of their job to don't kitten the viewers.

Yeah, these cases are difficult to salvage. But I also referred to another youtuber that made 3 videos of 1 hour playing the engineer and tried also PvP, WvW and Ascalon Catacombs (probably the thing that made him quit). He was definitely lost at level 2, but he understood a lot of the game mechanics at just level 19 (a couple of hours in the end), so not a bad player at all. But I wonder if a normal player, not a youtuber that needs views, would have continued to play after that first day.

[SlayerXX.7138]

17 minutes ago, Urud.4925 said:

Yeah, these cases are difficult to salvage. But I also referred to another youtuber that made 3 videos of 1 hour playing the engineer and tried also PvP, WvW and Ascalon Catacombs (probably the thing that made him quit).

Well that's more a case of Content being done, instead of quitting. Youtuber who makes these video have content in mind, not really a honest try at these things. Ending on Ascalon is more a video pacing thing, instead of a quit moment. If I had to guess where real People are actually quitting:

10-20: Where you have unlocked a bunch of systems and get started to feel overwhelmed. Your only Structure is the always present green reminder you have to level for the next piece of structure content. Not shitting on the roaming aspect of OW, just saying that is a point of confusion for newer Players.

50-80: Character Progression comes to a screeching halt. Power gain is almost no existent. You level just barley fast enough that going out of your way for gear is not worth it. Probably the weakest part of the leveling experience only salvaged by MMO's old friend the sunken cost facility.

 

[robertthebard.8150]

Hmm...  I guess I need to change my name to "Nobody"?  I came after the base game went F2P, with some friends from ESO.  I played for a few hours and decided that I liked the game enough that I went ahead and bought the expansions.  When I was first starting out, I read all the popups provided, and I paid attention to what the quest log was telling me, both on screen, and when I opened it up to read more details.  I had no problems figuring out the base interface of the Hero Panel, again, because I took the time to read it.  But if a player isn't taking the time to read what's already provided, how will adding more stuff to read fix anything?

If I were going to stream this, as a new player, I would take the time to learn it first.  Just because they jumped in fresh and didn't want to bore their audience with all the reading required doesn't mean that the game failed to deliver information, it means that they failed to interact with the information the game does provide.  Full circle to "if they're not reading what's provided already, how will adding more "fix" anything"?

[Danikat.8537]

At this point I'm not clear on what's being suggested here. It sounds like the idea is to remove all the level-up info, character guide achievements and anything else which teaches you how the game works because some people trying to make exciting Youtube videos don't take the time to read them, then remove anything which isn't immediately clear without those explainations...to what? Dumb the game down to the point where it requires no thought so it's more exciting for people to watch on Youtube?

I can't imagine there's any appeal for Anet or existing players in gutting the game in the hope that Youtube will get more business as a result.

[voltaicbore.8012]

People take it as some sort of gospel that a game needs to grab a wider range of new players. I firmly, firmly disagree. Not everyone is the kind of player a game wants. People who can't be bothered to read the extremely generous volume of reasonably organized information the UI provides... I'm not sure this game and those players need each other. 

This may be some sort of generational shift. Older games required much more care to learn and play, but it seems most people no longer have any patience for actually learning an MMO. It's all just "efficient path to endgame" these days. I'm not sure GW2 would fare well at all if it tried to fit that mold.

[Izzy.2951]

Just rework LFG

[DexterousGecko.6328]

I'd rather they spend resources on not that. Those new players probably aren't going to spend as much as Vets do, so why bother?

[Padrion.7382]

Valid suggestions. Although I think where GW2 really loses the players is not on the first 10 levels where things are new and exciting and mastering your abilities is challenging (and you haven't realized yet that it's actually pretty hard to die to anything but falling damage at this stage). It is rather between 30-60 when you learned to play your character but the content is still mind-numbingly easy, gets very repetitive and the 'personal' story becomes very unpersonal and forgettable.