Daily Reminder that Downstate is bad for PvP and Should be Removed

[Yerlock.4678]

Idc if this causes a civil war in the community. Downstate in pvp is and has always been a silly goose idea. 

 

"Well what about resurrection or support skillz?? They'll be obsolete!"

 

No they won't. Just have the timer start counting down to respawn after the teammate died and a Signet of Mercy can bring them back from being dead. Ez

Support players while being already alive, crazy idea I know.

 

This will make the slugish respawn times that are grueling atm cease to exist,  and pick up the pace of combat dramatically. No longer will a team or player focus on "cleaving the downed" but killing enemy opponents. We all just need to admit that the downed mechanic of this game definitely had PvE foremost in mind; as finishing a PvE boss won't cause said boss to become enraged and complain on the forums for a cheap kill.

 

Also the most frustrating kills ever imaginable of a downed enemy player throwing stones at you to make you go down will finally go away. These aren't "clutch", they're annoying. This isn't "skill", it's bad gameplay and cheap. Cheap unafforded kills or players being brought to downstate are frustrating and not skill based, we should be avoiding this not embracing it. No more needing to fight Ranger part 1 and part 2 which takes just as much time finishing in downstate with 30 interrupts as part 1.

 

"The damage and health balancing had downstate in mind. If there's no downstate people will die in a second without a chance to revive!"

 

Yeah so? That just means tuning the numbers not changing mechanics. And if it's almost one shotting people even currently it's still probably deserving of a nerf. The balance philosophy hasn't changed. Also even if we presume this argument is right the respawn timer will kick in faster due to no downstate, meaning players getting back into action faster. Also rez mechanics will still be there ideally so potential revives.

 

Let's show the other online pvp games that we're grown up now and not dealing with PvE mechanics. It might make League and Dota players actually look in our direction for once in a blue moon. 

Thanks

 

 

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

Downstate has no place in competitive play, PvP or WvW. It can stay in PvE where it belongs.

[SoftFootpaws.9134]

Downstate exists because the game doesn't have true resurrection skills like other games. If it was removed, you'd have to be able to have real rezz abilities in your kit, otherwise you remove alot of the annoyance of combat but you also remove alot of the risk. There has to be risk/reward to PvP, even for supports.

Edited November 14, 2022 by Mariyuuna.6508

[Elricht Kaltwind.8796]

Down state is a core mechanic of Guild Wars 2 and was advertised years before the game launched, if you don't find a core element of the game's combat fun or effective then the most logical thing to do would be to find a game that doesn't have it and play that 

[Stand The Wall.6987]

i think downstate skills and rally should be removed but keep downstate in the game. maybe reduce the amount of times you can be ressed to one but have a decent amount of invuln on getting up so you can't just be downed immediately again.

[UNOwen.7132]

Nah, Downstate is good for the game. It lowers the value of burst and disincentivises just blowing all your resources on one guy to then just win via outnumbering. There might be a case for removing it in WvW, but in PvP its an important check that makes the game more skillful and more varied.

[Kayberz.5346]

Keep downstate.

BUT

Make it so that in pvp you cant rally from kills.

Only revive skills and manual rezzing will rally you

Best of both worlds 

[Bazsi.2734]

Nice bait. I'm not even being ironic, this is some adept level trolling. Keep it up guys!

[NotFound.7813]

2 hours ago, UNOwen.7132 said:

Nah, Downstate is good for the game. It lowers the value of burst and disincentivises just blowing all your resources on one guy to then just win via outnumbering. There might be a case for removing it in WvW, but in PvP its an important check that makes the game more skillful and more varied.

Half of gvg mechanics as long as im concerned are about signeting/glyphing or lauch ppl away to avoid them getting signeted/glyphed.

 

In my opinion there should be more skills to stomp ppl like banner/daredevil ult wich encouraged the use of actual mechanics like stealthing downed or blinding (on the case of banner) . 

 

Edited November 14, 2022 by NotFound.7813

[ASP.8093]

6 hours ago, gmmg.9210 said:

No more needing to fight Ranger part 1 and part 2 which takes just as much time finishing in downstate with 30 interrupts as part 1.

Sounds like you're trying to stomp downs on a class that's way better at cleaving than stomping.

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

10 hours ago, Mariyuuna.6508 said:

Downstate exists because the game doesn't have true resurrection skills like other games. If it was removed, you'd have to be able to have real rezz abilities in your kit, otherwise you remove alot of the annoyance of combat but you also remove alot of the risk. There has to be risk/reward to PvP, even for supports.

Then change the rally skills into rez skills. Not that hard.

[Kozumi.5816]

Doubly remove from WvW, and ressing in general.

 

[Azure The Heartless.3261]

I was going to argue with you, then I remembered that downstate ranger can maintain consistent dps even while down and then actively pick themselves back up if you are distracted by literally anything or if they manage to down you by themselves or via their pet at any point before they die, and y'know what yeah I can get on board with that. 

I want to use my finishers though they could just nerf downstate in pvp so we can use those reliably

Edited November 14, 2022 by Azure The Heartless.3261

[Khalisto.5780]

A -20% downstate hp is all the nerf we need

[thc enjoyer.4976]

could just make all the downstates the same skills and duration if balance is the idea, but your poll will never exceed more yes than no's, can't teach old dogs new tricks and all that. 

[Azure The Heartless.3261]

2 minutes ago, thc enjoyer.4976 said:

could just make all the downstates the same skills and duration if balance is the idea, but your poll will never exceed more yes than no's, can't teach old dogs new tricks and all that. 

 

This is a good idea. Either normalize skills for pvp, or nerf downstate for classes with better downstate pressure so they don't also have an unconditional  self res

Edited November 14, 2022 by Azure The Heartless.3261

[Crab Fear.8623]

54 minutes ago, Azure The Heartless.3261 said:

 

This is a good idea. Either normalize skills for pvp, or nerf downstate for classes with better downstate pressure so they don't also have an unconditional  self res

normalization, homogenization is the only way to make downstate acceptable to both sides, imo.

you failed, you died, you get a second or two to stall, but to have an absolute bar that can basically beat an upstate after they outplayed you is unacceptable.

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

45 minutes ago, Crab Fear.8623 said:

normalization, homogenization is the only way to make downstate acceptable to both sides, imo.

you failed, you died, you get a second or two to stall, but to have an absolute bar that can basically beat an upstate after they outplayed you is unacceptable.

Honestly -33% downstate HP, and locking Downstate Skill 3 in competitive play would cull 90% of both the shenanigan's and unfair nature of some downstate bars.

Though if they were all going to become the same bar then:

Throw Rock
Hammer Toss
Throw Dirt
Bandage Self

Would be the most neutral way to do it without being OP or UP. I still think Downstate has 0 place in competitive. Heck, the only time I see it having any worth is in solo PvE for newbies still leveling. 

[Stand The Wall.6987]

1 hour ago, Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

Honestly -33% downstate HP, and locking Downstate Skill 3 in competitive play would cull 90% of both the shenanigan's and unfair nature of some downstate bars.

Though if they were all going to become the same bar then:

Throw Rock
Hammer Toss
Throw Dirt
Bandage Self

Would be the most neutral way to do it without being OP or UP. I still think Downstate has 0 place in competitive. Heck, the only time I see it having any worth is in solo PvE for newbies still leveling. 

you mean i can't one shot ppl with my mesmer downstate anymore?!?! yeah nah that nonsense should go, along with ranger res and everything else.

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

25 minutes ago, Stand The Wall.6987 said:

you mean i can't one shot ppl with my mesmer downstate anymore?!?! yeah nah that nonsense should go, along with ranger res and everything else.

I've seen it used once on me in WvW. It hurt. Also, that is the only time I've ever seen it used and I've downed my fair share of mesmers.

[Seneca.6319]

On 11/14/2022 at 9:09 PM, Stand The Wall.6987 said:

you mean i can't one shot ppl with my mesmer downstate anymore?!?! yeah nah that nonsense should go, along with ranger res and everything else.

Downstate 3 on mesmer is ridiculous. I saw it hit for 9k against a player with no toughness and vitality. Their bar was shrunk by 80% in one blow. No, downstate shouldn't be a thing in PVP. PVP is really all about you being more skilled than the other player WHILE you are on your feet. When you die, you die. Wait 15 seconds and come back to retry. 

 

People who support downstate obviously haven't played other competitive games and want 2nd and 3rd chances to feel better about themselves when losing. But...to make them happy I will propose a crazy idea. What if we remove downstate completely but you get to be able to change your build when out of combat. Now that can allow for interesting counter play if the concern is that someone can one shot you. You got killed once because you went heavy on DPS and had no sustain. Cool...no problem, add some sustain and come retry. Still failing? Sorry mate, maybe it's actually your skill level :)

[Exalted Quality.8534]

Removing downstate is not the move.  I believe  that simply removing invulnerability on res would make re-killing players much more manageable. Also, they should add a death penalty debuff that instantly kills a ressed player if they enter downstate a second time in x time period. A minute long death penalty would seem reasonable to me for this mechanic in PvP.

[Gotejjeken.1267]

Lotta bad takes...lotta bad takes.

Devil's Advocate, if you remove downstate from sPvP you get back to the action faster, and this is unacceptable.  Would have to make the death timer 20-25 seconds at least.  

Or, it'd have to be like true sweaty competitive games--once you are defeated you don't come back.  Just switch the game to round based and preserve points over rounds to 500, problem solved.

Since game is based around downstate, the advice is to git gud.