Perhaps this new model is not ideal?

[Ashantara.8731]

Wouldn't it be better if ANet focused only on expansions story-wise and stopped releasing rushed tiny story pieces in between? They could instead focus only on Strikes and Fractals as filler content, maybe?

I see threads asking whether we needed more story. Well, yeah, it is the heart of every RPG. But it's worthless if it's being delivered in such a frustrating manner like the current chapter was.

Thoughts?

[Gehenna.3625]

12 minutes ago, Ashantara.8731 said:

Wouldn't it be better if ANet focused only on expansions story-wise and stopped releasing rushed tiny story pieces in between? They could instead focus only on Strikes and Fractals as filler content, maybe?

I see threads asking whether we needed more story. Well, yeah, it is the heart of every RPG. But it's worthless if it's being delivered in such a frustrating manner like the current chapter was.

Thoughts?

I don't do fractals nor strikes. So what's in it for me?

For me the LW chapters were pretty good (as of LW3), this is instead of those, but this new one just hasn't delivered by comparison. So Anet isn't delivering atm afaic. I think that they should focus on making good on that. The map is also very small compared to Drizzlewood which also was built around a meta. But Drizzlewood has more stuff to do in it.

Also I find bringing out maps in two parts is a questionable decision, considering there are 3 months between. And with so little to do in this map, I'm already done with it essentially. I'm sure I'll go there from time to time, just to do map completion and I'll join the meta for that since you really need the meta to get the map completed but that's all. 

There just isn't anything else to do really and that's what the mistake is they made. Not the wrong type of content but just poor delivery of expected content.

 

[Ashantara.8731]

37 minutes ago, Gehenna.3625 said:

For me the LW chapters were pretty good (as of LW3), this is instead of those, but this new one just hasn't delivered by comparison.

And that's the point. Wouldn't you rather play good story/open world content?

If that means to cut any such "in between expansions", I would totally accept that.

55 minutes ago, vares.8457 said:

https://www.arena.net/en/careers

😅

Edited March 4, 2023 by Ashantara.8731

[Randulf.7614]

They announced this last year. It was hardly rushed. If they can’t deliver a full map with a full story and content in a year, is there any realistic expectation they can deliver better in an expansion?

They seem to think drip feeding is the correct way. The content isn’t wholly bad, it’s just vastly under what it should be. They need to get better at understanding their community and not trying to write some HBO series which is all fluff and no substance. I expected the same as the IBS Prologud and that was not unreasonable

Cutting out even more story and map when they’ve cut down already isn’t the answer. Other older mmos with a fraction of the development team can keep the maps, stories and instances moving. This is a directional/management issue. Either they are fully focused on GW2 or they need to come clean and say they are winding down.

 

[Ashantara.8731]

9 minutes ago, Randulf.7614 said:

They announced this last year. It was hardly rushed.

You misunderstood: the story felt rushed and anticlimatic, not the release.

9 minutes ago, Randulf.7614 said:

The content isn’t wholly bad, it’s just vastly under what it should be.

And I think that's because they don't have the resources to make this new model work.

I'd rather have less frequent story content than this kind of disappointing stuff. First they build up the suspense only to have it go nowhere all of a sudden (same thing that happened to the Jormag story arc: build up tension, then... *poof!* dumb down the finale and ruin any character buildup).

Edited March 4, 2023 by Ashantara.8731

[Randulf.7614]

4 minutes ago, Ashantara.8731 said:

You misunderstood: the story felt rushed and anticlimatic, not the release.

And I think that's because they don't have the resources to make this new model work.

I'd rather have less frequent story content than this kind of disappointing stuff. First they build up the suspense only to have it go nowhere all of a sudden (same thing that happened to the Jormag story arc: build up tension, then... *poof!* dumb down the finale and destroy any character buildup).

If they don’t have the resources to make one map, with one complete story after a year, I think there’s real trouble for the game.

Judging by the dev response in the lore forum, I get the impression they decided to go for the very, very slow build and forgot we don’t see the bigger picture. It makes sense to them, but don’t realise when we see these once a quarter drops, it’s massively underwhelming.

Cutting back was the right call. Cutting back further now they can’t deliver big expansions anymore will be a disaster. They are quite capable of delivering more and better than what they did. They chose not to.

[Ashantara.8731]

6 minutes ago, Randulf.7614 said:

Cutting back was the right call. Cutting back further now they can’t deliver big expansions anymore will be a disaster. They are quite capable of delivering more and better than what they did. They chose not to.

You misunderstood again.

I meant to not waste resources on any LW (or whatever we call it now) and put everything (i.e., all their story/map/open world team resources) into expansions instead, for a better, bigger, more complete and satisfying story experience -- so this wouldn't happen:

6 minutes ago, Randulf.7614 said:

I get the impression they decided to go for the very, very slow build and forgot we don’t see the bigger picture. It makes sense to them, but don’t realise when we see these once a quarter drops, it’s massively underwhelming.

 

Edited March 4, 2023 by Ashantara.8731

[Zebulous.2934]

Could be worse, it could be the same writing style as Marvel (shatter serious emotional moments with stupid jokes) Or Velma (where the writers spitefully mock their own audience)

[Randulf.7614]

4 minutes ago, Ashantara.8731 said:

You misunderstood again.

I meant to not waste resources on any LW (or whatever we call it now) and put everything (i.e., all their story/map/open world team resources) into expansions instead, for a better, bigger, more complete and satisfying story experience -- so this wouldn't happen:

 

But, if they can’t deliver in small chunks after a long development time, how will they do the same amount of content but in a single large block? I’d argue EoD didn’t deliver fully on quality and that was a large block. I would say what they delivered last week would indicate they would struggle even more with a large content drop.

[Fueki.4753]

37 minutes ago, Ashantara.8731 said:

You misunderstood again.

I meant to not waste resources on any LW (or whatever we call it now) and put everything (i.e., all their story/map/open world team resources) into expansions instead, for a better, bigger, more complete and satisfying story experience -- so this wouldn't happen:

If they only released their expansions, the game would suffer from even longer content droughts.

Even longer content droughts likely are even worse for the health of game than the subpar delivery and the abysmal writing.

Edited March 4, 2023 by Fueki.4753

[Farohna.6247]

I can see your point OP, bring content to the game by adding more fractals, raids, etc. instead of story.   As someone who doesn't actively participate in instanced content, I find those unappealing, but they should not be neglected. 

Focusing only on expansions would be fine if it weren't for the screams from the community.  For the past year I've read on the forums the constant whine for content (this is subjective on what that is), imagine the screams if they released an expansion every two years.  Oh the drought, oh the end of GW2, oh woe oh woe!  They would need to add two years worth of content to each expansion to keep people busy.  Even then the veteran players will probably burn through it much faster than the newer ones and still be sitting there complaining.  

The story is like when you start a slow paced book and takes a little while to get into it.  It is setting the stage, so let's hope it picks up a bit as it goes.  Can't be any worse than the return to LW1...not exactly the most thrilling story. 

Do I think this format is great....not really but it satisfies the Steam users who are twitchy and constantly switch games depending on what DLC is new, and it keeps pace with that trend.  Hopefully with expansions, they will add more of the instanced content you're looking for.

[Randulf.7614]

The issue is it’s not like a book because you can consume a book at your pace and leisure. If the chapter ends with a cliffhanger or without answers, you continue by simply turning the page. Stories for episodic gaming are totally different to mediums like books and even tv series (which have shorter wait times even though they still need to satisfy every episode). Quarterly episodic drops means the story needs to be tight, reasonably contained and content meaty enough to sustain until they decide to give us part two.

Grothmar/Prologue is perhaps one of the most universally praised episodes in the game. It set the story, but kept its own story complete and contained whilst ensuring lots of content and exploration up to and beyond the next episode. That is the quality standard to set themselves by if we are getting a reduced cadence. If they can do that as part of a high workload season, they should absolutely be able to do it now.

[Sobx.1758]

Story content is mostly a "one-off" for me and I treat is as an introduction to actual content, so if I understood you correctly, I don't think that would be better.

[Cuks.8241]

3 hours ago, Ashantara.8731 said:

Wouldn't it be better if ANet focused only on expansions story-wise and stopped releasing rushed tiny story pieces in between? They could instead focus only on Strikes and Fractals as filler content, maybe?

I see threads asking whether we needed more story. Well, yeah, it is the heart of every RPG. But it's worthless if it's being delivered in such a frustrating manner like the current chapter was.

Thoughts?

They could even expand the story but on existing maps. New Kaineng, DE have plenty of underused space for that. Maybe open a new cave or a building on existing maps for some new areas. The number of maps is getting out of hands anyway. 

2 hours ago, Gehenna.3625 said:

I don't do fractals nor strikes. So what's in it for me?

And other players do? What was in this update for them? 

[Vavume.8065]

I prefer the story aspect being shorter and I also prefer it when it is open world story rather than instanced. I do not get excited by the story in any game, I play to make my own path.

[Super Hayes.6890]

I don't know yet. I want to see some more releases under this model before I decide 🤷‍♂️

[Ashantara.8731]

18 hours ago, Fueki.4753 said:

If they only released their expansions, the game would suffer from even longer content droughts.

But at least the content would be more satisfying. I prefer a healthy chunk of story content over a "small teaser" that has you wait three or more months for a continuation which might or might not be good.

Also, I wouldn't call new endgame content like Fractals and Strikes "content drought".

14 hours ago, Super Hayes.6890 said:

I don't know yet. I want to see some more releases under this model before I decide 🤷‍♂️

Fair enough. 🙂

Edited March 5, 2023 by Ashantara.8731

[LSD.4673]

20 hours ago, vares.8457 said:

https://www.arena.net/en/careers

 

As stable as building on sand, if the past 10 years are anything to go by.

[Balsa.3951]

if the next expansion has no new elites or 3 new classes, i will not buy, the Story is just bad.

Anet refuses to get older, while gamer now in their late 30ths still get treated like 9 years old. All the bad humor takes away from the drama

[Fueki.4753]

1 hour ago, Ashantara.8731 said:

But at least the content would be more satisfying.

Would it actually be more satisfying though? There's literally nothing that indicates their writing would get any better, if they have more time.

They reduced the second half of Season 5 to only DRMs in order to get more time and resources for EoD. Yet EoD still ended up being a massive let down.

Who is to guarantee that waiting entire years again will end up with decent stories? For all we know, even a whole mini-expansion could end up being little more than three times the nearly empty fluff that is the latest release.

[Keymaster.7362]

I mean... yeah, i was also a bit disapointmet about how short this story update was. But don't you think it's way to early to judge already about the new, not even existing system?

This didn't had anything to do with the new 'mini' expansions. The actual chapter is only a epilog of EoD, it foreshadows the next main villian and buys Anet a little more time to change their company structure for the future.

And no one ever said, the new mini expancions wouldn't include new ESpecs, Masterys or other totally new interesting stuff.

Story in expansions and only fractals and strikes in the 1 or 2 years in between is a shockingly bad idea in my personal opinion.

Edited March 5, 2023 by Keymaster.7362

[Ultramex.1506]

Perhaps you're judging too early? We've not reach the mini-expansion yet.

Feel free to express your disappointment but this is still the beginning of first phase.

Edited March 6, 2023 by Ultramex.1506

[Cyninja.2954]

23 hours ago, Ashantara.8731 said:

Wouldn't it be better if ANet focused only on expansions story-wise and stopped releasing rushed tiny story pieces in between? They could instead focus only on Strikes and Fractals as filler content, maybe?

I see threads asking whether we needed more story. Well, yeah, it is the heart of every RPG. But it's worthless if it's being delivered in such a frustrating manner like the current chapter was.

Thoughts?

My first thought: people really need to stop judging an entire concept around 1 miniature piece of it.

Was the story episode underwhelming? Sure. Was the story to short? Likely. Is this what is expecting us for every single release in the future? Maybe, but unlikely (some releases will be a bit bigger, some a bit smaller. We've all seen it before). Have we seen all this in the past over and over with the same complaints, in part by the same forum regulars? You bet.

Anyone who bothered to do some basic research (to refresh their memory which I guarantee is clouded by now) will realize the following things:

- we know exactly how much content the studio can produce in a year. We have enough evidence of the amount of content they can produce after nearly 10 years with different content models. People need to stop hyping themselves up with unrealistic expectations

-  the complaints about lacking or to little story content have been with the game ever since season 2 released (and where present even during season 1). Even the so beloved and praised Season 4 was FULL of players complaining that the episodes where to small. We even have unfinished metas (hello Domain of Kourna and the entire turret system) in some of the maps because the content had to get rushed to meet deadlines within Season 4 (which, small reminder: where closer to 3-4 months between episodes, and even 5 before the last one, than 2-3 and that's with the entire focus being on this content).

- every single expansion, bar HoT yet even that got some scrutiny (and took a considerable amount of time to develop), was considered rushed, to short, not big enough, etc.

Most players posting on these forums about content seem like mice in a maze to me. You all keep running and running and dreaming and making plans what you will do once you get out of the maze, yet whenever given an opportunity, you run right back the same path you've been down a millions times before.

Stop dreaming, stop assuming, stop expecting things you will not get. Accept the game for what it is and focus on other stuff for once besides reshuffling the limited resources present in some magical attempt to squeeze the lemon dry 3 times.

Edited March 5, 2023 by Cyninja.2954

[Astralporing.1957]

23 hours ago, vares.8457 said:

https://www.arena.net/en/careers

 

Yes, fair point. Trying to run in background something that seems a major "unannounced project" may indeed cripple your GW2 resource capabilities. We've been through this once before, after all, and last time we've lost an expansion due to it.

[Gehenna.3625]

22 hours ago, Ashantara.8731 said:

I meant to not waste resources on any LW (or whatever we call it now) and put everything (i.e., all their story/map/open world team resources)

Yeah what is a good term for stuff that should've been in the expansion but is delayed on purpose because of a lack of resources? I propose LECs. Living Expansion Chapters.