Stories Locked Behind Raids [Merged]

[Kurr.4179]

@Vinceman.4572 said:Actually we are having a discord argument at the moment and I really want clarity:Was it possible to experience the complete story in GW1 for every player? And with complete I mean everything! (Buying runs not counted, obviously)

Because one of my guildie is stating that even in GW1 it wasn't possible for every player because there was hard content as well as in GW2 for a certain subset of players.

You weren't doing everything solo as a casual, even on normal and with heroes. Some good players could do it, but it was exclusive content. A lot of events required split groups and were very difficult to manage with heroes. UW, FoW, DoA, Urgoz and The Deep were all gated and required knowledge and execution. Even the Tomb of the Primeval Kings, the Titan Quests and Sorrow's Furnace required you to be pretty good although those were more manageable with heroes.

There is no issue here. I would be mad if they made the Underworld an easy open world zone. It's end-game content, as it was in the first game.

[Ayrilana.1396]

@Chay.7852 said:You could solo the uw in GWC with heroes in normal mode and maybe even in hard mode - didnt try since at the time you could take 7 heroes i didnt play that much anymore. And you could kill all the trash mobs solo - i did it several times, it was something like my living room. So it means yes, everyone could finish the uw if ppl wanted.

From me Thumb down, Anet for making a raid out of the UW - it was an Elite Mission, why didnt you keep it that way?

It wasn’t solo as you had other characters with you that performed to the level of players (quite often arguably better than some players). Being able to take all heroes happened well after it was initially released.

[Chay.7852]

@Ayrilana.1396 said:

@Chay.7852 said:You could solo the uw in GWC with heroes in normal mode and maybe even in hard mode - didnt try since at the time you could take 7 heroes i didnt play that much anymore. And you could kill all the trash mobs solo - i did it several times, it was something like my living room. So it means yes, everyone could finish the uw if ppl wanted.

From me Thumb down, Anet for making a raid out of the UW - it was an Elite Mission, why didnt you keep it that way?

It wasn’t solo as you had other characters with you that performed to the level of players (quite often arguably better than some players). Being able to take all heroes happened well after it was initially released.

well... thats true but still it was doable for a single person to finish that content. You had a lot of micromanagement though sending the heroes to certain places during the 10 quests.. Still.. nice experience^^

[Wicked.5479]

@Ayrilana.1396 said:

@Wicked.5479 said:have you been looking at the LFG for raids? its like 150+ LI for any standard party for pugging. and making your own gets you nowhere 99 out of a 100 times.

Nowhere as in nobody groups with you or nowhere as in the groups fail?

@Wicked.5479 said:even in prophecies you could still clear UW with like 4 man easy. whereas this raidsystem is purely time/damagegated so doin it with just a few friends is near impossible

It’s not as much of a time and damage gate as you make it out to be. It’s designed to be 10-player content so playing it with less will make it difficult. It was a given that it would likely be a raid as it was the GW1 equivalent.

how is it not time/damagegated when every boss has a countdowntimer till enrage or instadeath

[Eternalight.4708]

@Vinceman.4572 said:Actually we are having a discord argument at the moment and I really want clarity:Was it possible to experience the complete story in GW1 for every player? And with complete I mean everything! (Buying runs not counted, obviously)

Because one of my guildie is stating that even in GW1 it wasn't possible for every player because there was hard content as well as in GW2 for a certain subset of players.

When heroes came into GW1 it made a lot of things possible for even the average player.

I myself clocked so many hours... (10k+) in Underworld alone, let alone Fissure of Woe, Urgoz, Deep and the like, be it solo/duo or full parties. Mostly solo/duo for UW and FoW.

As far as doing this in GW2. Some guildmates destroyed most of my friends appetite for raiding as a guild with DPS and Meta arguments to the point of belittling and calling individuals out.

As much as I loved that place and wanted to see it I doubt I'd be doing it. I just can't go through all that disappointment again. It's unhealthy.

Granted my disabilities doesn't help me one bit it's no excuse.

Back to WvW I guess.

[Ayrilana.1396]

@Wicked.5479 said:

@Ayrilana.1396 said:

@Wicked.5479 said:have you been looking at the LFG for raids? its like 150+ LI for any standard party for pugging. and making your own gets you nowhere 99 out of a 100 times.

Nowhere as in nobody groups with you or nowhere as in the groups fail?

@Wicked.5479 said:even in prophecies you could still clear UW with like 4 man easy. whereas this raidsystem is purely time/damagegated so doin it with just a few friends is near impossible

It’s not as much of a time and damage gate as you make it out to be. It’s designed to be 10-player content so playing it with less will make it difficult. It was a given that it would likely be a raid as it was the GW1 equivalent.

how is it not time/damagegated when every boss has a countdowntimer till enrage or instadeath

I said not much of AKA a lesser degree AKA you’re exaggerating.

[Ayrilana.1396]

@Chay.7852 said:

@Ayrilana.1396 said:

@Chay.7852 said:You could solo the uw in GWC with heroes in normal mode and maybe even in hard mode - didnt try since at the time you could take 7 heroes i didnt play that much anymore. And you could kill all the trash mobs solo - i did it several times, it was something like my living room. So it means yes, everyone could finish the uw if ppl wanted.

From me Thumb down, Anet for making a raid out of the UW - it was an Elite Mission, why didnt you keep it that way?

It wasn’t solo as you had other characters with you that performed to the level of players (quite often arguably better than some players). Being able to take all heroes happened well after it was initially released.

well... thats true but still it was doable for a single person to finish that content. You had a lot of micromanagement though sending the heroes to certain places during the 10 quests.. Still.. nice experience^^

If using heroes is considered solo over doing it with your playable hero only. Nevertheless, you could not use heroes when it was released.

[mazut.4296]

Its just a raid, nothing like the UW you know.

[syntohras.1064]

That is sad....so i won't see the uw because i do not play Raids. =(

[Lahmia.2193]

Breaking news: Elite content from gw1 is made into elite content in gw2. In other news, water is wet and fire is hot. More of this at 10.

[Tyson.5160]

It kinda bummed me out that they put so much White Mantle stuff with the first 3 wings since it was so heavily connected to S3, however the Underworld is the perfect place for a raid. I recall UW being difficult as all hell and I also recall that UW required a payment to enter as well as lots of food. UW was raiding in gw1, seems fitting for it to be the same in gw2.

[Silmar Alech.4305]

@Vinceman.4572 said:Was it possible to experience the complete story in GW1 for every player? And with complete I mean everything! (Buying runs not counted, obviously)Yes. At least in normal mode, it is perfectly possible with a group size of 8 to carry one or two inactive persons through every content, and the remaining 6 weren't even required to be the top experts. You only had to have knowledge of each of the quests and quest stages. Which enemies spawn at what time, and where, and how you had to fight them, and which NPC you had to protect. We did this many times - carry real bad guild members. In a team of 8, you can build the whole team around them. Gift them with armor runes and properly modded weapons, then give them a task and a build that requires them to simply use all skills on reload. And do the important work yourself.

I myself was able to experience every PvE content, everything in hard mode as well, and some of the more difficult PvE contents (for example Domain of Anguish) even alone with a party of heroes and micro-managing them.In GW2, I don't see any path for me to be successful in the GW2 raids. This is completely different to any GW1 content. You have to learn things by heart while you fail, fail, fail. That's not only painful and not fun, it's a waste of time. I learnt VG, Gorseval and escort half a year ago, but after a few weeks I realized learning all of the bosses by heart with all their own puzzles isn't something that will happen. All this training is not fun, is just not worth the time, so I was not able to proceed any further.

In GW1, the learning curve for the most difficult tasks was much more flat. You go in with a correctly set up team with all required roles, you have an experienced leader that explains all of the tasks at hand, and you were successful starting with the first or second try. This is not how it works in GW2.

[Beorn Raukar.4328]

@Chay.7852 said:You could solo the uw in GWC with heroes in normal mode and maybe even in hard mode - didnt try since at the time you could take 7 heroes i didnt play that much anymore. And you could kill all the trash mobs solo - i did it several times, it was something like my living room. So it means yes, everyone could finish the uw if ppl wanted.

From me Thumb down, Anet for making a raid out of the UW - it was an Elite Mission, why didnt you keep it that way?

"everyone could finish the uw if ppl wanted." the same can be said about GW2 raids

[Zoltar MacRoth.7146]

I like Ultima Underworld.

[Chay.7852]

@Beorn Raukar.4328 said:

@Chay.7852 said:You could solo the uw in GWC with heroes in normal mode and maybe even in hard mode - didnt try since at the time you could take 7 heroes i didnt play that much anymore. And you could kill all the trash mobs solo - i did it several times, it was something like my living room. So it means yes, everyone could finish the uw if ppl wanted.

From me Thumb down, Anet for making a raid out of the UW - it was an Elite Mission, why didnt you keep it that way?

"everyone could finish the uw if ppl wanted." the same can be said about GW2 raids

you know exactly what i mean ;) it was possible for everyone to finish said content alone with his heros.

[Coulter.2315]

@Chay.7852 said:

@Beorn Raukar.4328 said:

@Chay.7852 said:You could solo the uw in GWC with heroes in normal mode and maybe even in hard mode - didnt try since at the time you could take 7 heroes i didnt play that much anymore. And you could kill all the trash mobs solo - i did it several times, it was something like my living room. So it means yes, everyone could finish the uw if ppl wanted.

From me Thumb down, Anet for making a raid out of the UW - it was an Elite Mission, why didnt you keep it that way?

"everyone could finish the uw if ppl wanted." the same can be said about GW2 raids

you know exactly what i mean ;) it was possible for everyone to finish said content alone with his heros.

There are no heroes in GW2, you can't compare these two things. You wouldn't say "Griffons exist in GW2 so anyone should have been able to travel down through Snakedance in GW1 without a runner."

[Jeknar.6184]

@Wicked.5479 said:even in prophecies you could still clear UW with like 4 man easy. whereas this raidsystem is purely time/damagegated so doin it with just a few friends is near impossible

I heard people clear GW2 raids (at least the old ones) with like 5 people. So, as long you have competent friends, I guess you can do that too.

[Erasculio.2914]

@Bullet.9271 said:Underworld was a raid in GW1 as well.

Errrr... No, it wasn't?

That's like saying Orr is a raid. It wasn't something so different from the main game - same number of players, same structure as a common map, only a bit harder. At the time, a lot of people asked for "real" raids, which led ArenaNet to implement end game areas with a higher number of players in the next chapter, GW: Factions, together with mechanics that required more coordination (like the splits required in the Jade Sea area). Those were called "Elite Missions", and the Underworld was never officially called one.

Originally, both the Underworld and the Fissure of Woe were a PvE reward for PvP. They would only be open for players whose world held the Hall of Heroes, in the Tombs of Primeval Kings PvP mode. I can't help but laugh at what would happen if something similar were implemented for raids today.

[Zenith.7301]

I hate humanoid boss models. The tells are a pain in the ass to see thanks to effects clutter.

[zealex.9410]

@Chay.7852 said:

@Beorn Raukar.4328 said:

@Chay.7852 said:You could solo the uw in GWC with heroes in normal mode and maybe even in hard mode - didnt try since at the time you could take 7 heroes i didnt play that much anymore. And you could kill all the trash mobs solo - i did it several times, it was something like my living room. So it means yes, everyone could finish the uw if ppl wanted.

From me Thumb down, Anet for making a raid out of the UW - it was an Elite Mission, why didnt you keep it that way?

"everyone could finish the uw if ppl wanted." the same can be said about GW2 raids

you know exactly what i mean ;) it was possible for everyone to finish said content alone with his heros.

You can w8 then for 4-5years when the game pop will be low enough and they will add the heroes here too.

[Elrey.5472]

If you don't want to raid in gw2, don't, but don't blame the community. If you exist, 9 players like you exist; put them together, work towards that and complete the raid (I know of some roleplayers that took 7 months to kill a boss raid, but they did it, they didn't make excuses).

[Tyson.5160]

I remember clearing UW for the first time on my Rit and fighting Dhuum at the end. That fight was a close contender for raid encounter. Also when you failed in UW you lost money. I’m really not sure why people are surprised by this as it was an elite area in gw1. If the fissure of woe is released prepare for a raid wing.

[Deihnyx.6318]

@Tyson.5160 said:I remember clearing UW for the first time on my Rit and fighting Dhuum at the end. That fight was a close contender for raid encounter. Also when you failed in UW you lost money. I’m really not sure why people are surprised by this as it was an elite area in gw1. If the fissure of woe is released prepare for a raid wing.

Because it is 2017 and people are used to games being always easier and easier, with the argumentation that every single part of a game should be tweaked for the pleasure of the casual player first and foremost, no matter the other players.

[GrubySzymek.1362]

UW, FoW, DoA, Urgoz, these are all perfect material for raid content in GW2. However, the current way of making raids in this game is a slap to the face to all fans of GW1 original content. There is no exploration or chainquests, this is just Boss > Event > Boss. At this point I only feel reinforced in my opinion they should stop making raids "immersive" and just deliver platforms with bosses and mechanics.

Also, Dhuum looks stupid.

These devs didn't earn the right to use such a great place like GW1 UW and turn it into such a joke like this new wing.

If you don't want to raid in gw2, don't, but don't blame the community.

Community is the reason I stopped raiding so in my case they are to blame :)

@Jeknar.6184 said:

@Wicked.5479 said:even in prophecies you could still clear UW with like 4 man easy. whereas this raidsystem is purely time/damagegated so doin it with just a few friends is near impossible

I heard people clear GW2 raids (at least the old ones) with like 5 people. So, as long you have competent friends, I guess you can do that too.

This is a non-argument here. The intended design for this content is 10-man. Some people can drive cars on 2 wheels but it doesn't mean everyone should.

[maddoctor.2738]

They should make the following changes to the new Raid:1) Pay 1 gold to enter2) Make it so only worlds that have favor enter, maybe favor = only the top worlds in WvW each week can enter?Just to keep it like the original GW1 version/jk