Runes, Relics and You

[Acheron.1580]

This is going to be very long and I apologize but it's all relevant I promise.

I'll preface this by saying I really like the idea of separating rune 6 piece bonuses form relics as it should in general open up a lot more flexibility in build options while also giving the player more direct control over the stats that they want. The main problem I see going forward is that there was no way they considered the way that it would impact the economy of the game on release, and in that case how to handle the fallout.

Legendary Rune (and rune prices in general) discussion

Lots and lots of discussion on how players who have Legendary Runes should be compensated and there are technically right answers on both sides of the argument. Let's start with really straight comparisons.

Rune of the pack adds 175 total power, 15% boon duration. Total cost to buy (straight up) 16 silver

Rune of Fireworks adds 175 total power, 15% boon duration. Total cost to buy, 1 gold 24 silver

Rune of Infiltration adds 175 power, 100 precision. Total cost to buy ~9 silver

Rune of Chronomancer adds 175 power, 100 precision. Total cost to buy 2 gold and 50 silver

Rune of the Revenant adds 78 to all stats. Total cost to buy 1 gold 70 silver

Rune of Divinity adds 78 to all stats. Total cost to buy 74 silver

Rune of the Zephyrite adds 78 to all stats. Total cost to buy 9 silver

So TECHNICALLY after the rune change they both will add the same stats, and lets assume the 6 piece on infiltration and chronomancer is an extra 100 precision to make things easy. Yes, going forward your rune will still have 6 bonus stats at the end of the day. But the VALUE of the runes is entirely dependent on the 6 piece bonus that accompanied it. In some cases as demonstrated here the value of the lesser costed rune is not even 5% of the expensive one.

Hypothetical

My assumption is they will try to make runes fit nice little packages so that they have less work to do. I considered what the absolute laziest way to do that was and came up with an example. Lets go with condition runes. Krait, Balthazar, Grenth, Perplexity, Thorns and Tormenting. All give 175 condition damage, and then 60% of their respected condition duration. My guess (No basis for it other than thinking of possibilities), the easiest way to pair that down to require the least amount of work would be 175 condition damage runes with 30% conditions duration (maybe not the chill, maybe still involved), and then 30% bonus poison, confusion, bleed relics. In this example though there is a huge distance between costs:

Balthazar 6 silver

Grenth  7.5 silver

Krait 2.2 gold

Perplexity 4.4 gold

Tormenting 6.15 gold

and thorns which can only be bought through the wvw or HoT vendors. In this scenario, Balthazar runes aren't even 1% in value of Tormenting. Ignoring the hypothetical, you can still see the problem where the rune costs which share the same stats and have different finishing values have wide spreads of costs on the trading post.

Other weird outliers are things like Rune of Exuberance and Wurm which add stats based on Vitality, which I assume they will standardize and instead make the bonus stat effects into relics.

This is the core reason why legendary runes should (in at least my opinion) have some sort of compensation, they have becoming significantly devalued. It also impacts people who don't even have legendary runes, which I will get to in a bit.

Relics and what we don't know

What we DO know is that relics will be replacing the 6 piece bonus in their own slot, and that there will be new ones added. Not all 6 piece bonuses will remain the same either. What we do not know is

- How expensive it will be to craft (or if crafting is even involved)?

- How easy it will be to acquire relics, or their patterns if crafting is involved?

- Will there be different rarities of relics?

- Will relics be bound to SoTo content or will you be required to have it in order to collect them if they aren't?

The emergent problem

The value of runes across the board are going to get wild. There are already pretty clearcut clumps of stats that runes nicely fit into, there are a lot of outliers where they can be sort of homogenized and then relics made to compensate differences. In the best case scenario, I'm guessing there's going to be maybe 20 - 25 rune combinations paired down from 100+ (Lets be honest though, there's a lot of duds in the current list).

What it means for Legendary Runes holders

There is going to be maybe 1/4 of available runes to choose from., and ALL runes will go down in price since the stats were less important than the bonus that accompanied them. Additionally, because of homogenization there will simply be MORE of each in the market also bringing the price further down.  There was an obvious appeal to legendary runes as being able to get some of the harder to craft runes, harder to acquire runes, and the more characters you had the less of the most expensive runes you needed to buy. Runes are going to basically be probably 5 - 10 silver a piece. That's a huge chunk of change. The cost of each individual legendary rune is simply not worth it in any scenario. You are getting less quality AND quantity per rune.

What it means for the rest of us

Anet didn't even consider legendary runes in the first place, as they kind of indicated in the mega thread about compensation for Legendary runes, saying that they would look into it. Do you honestly think that they have considered what the change in runes is going to do to people who don't have legendary runes on a personal level? Most likely they are going to smash rune types together, say power/precision is going to be Rune of Aggression or something, and they will most likely just convert all runes in that category to the one same name. Would you be happy if your Chronomancer runes suddenly became the same value as Infiltrators? Do you think they have the resources or the mechanisms in place to compensate the difference? Do you think they've even considered it? They probably assume it will just blow over after a couple weeks while the player just sucks up the loss. Your compensation will be 1 (one) Relic box PER ACCOUNT (which is another whole grab bag of issues when you consider people with multiple daily farming accounts but that's not here or there).

Solutions

Legendary Runes

If you are thinking of crafting legendary runes, DON'T. Gather/hold resources in case, wait for something concrete from Anet, but my guesses for how they will compensate is:

A) They lower the costs of crafting each legendary rune by maybe 1/2 to 1/4, compensating players the difference for each rune that they made.

B) Add a legendary Relic and simply gift it to players who have 6 runes (Really not favorable, since it would remove the new thing to grind and the value of said compensation if relics are really hard / annoying to get vs. easy to obtain kind of change how good/fair the compensation was, and leaves people who have less than 6 runes in the lurch).

C) Decide that they don't really need to compensate players and leave it at that.

In all scenarios, it's really best to find out what they plan on doing before you make any serious commitments.

Non-Legendary Runes

This one is a whole bag of bad news. The best solution I can come up with is to make ALL runes at release of the new Rune/Relic system into vendor trash with a value decided upon by Anet based on Crafting costs mats, Average TP costs (with removal of any values that fall way outside a reasonable mean to prevent price fixing), or a combination of the two. This way would make buying and selling runes work even with uncertainty all the way up to release because sellers caught with suddenly undervalued runes will still make money, buyers won't have to be as cautious about buying new runes in case they are the ones stuck with devalued runes, and it affects everyone equally in the end, though in reality probably to some (but controlled) loss to the players in total. The downside is that the TP will have a clean slate on runes, which means prices might get really crazy for a couple of weeks to a month, but since it would be implemented at the same time as relics it would basically be a sort of grace period for the market to correct.

TL,DR

It's not just Legendary Rune Holders, everybody loses

Rune prices are already a wide spread, with the change over to the new system they will all need to be more or less standardized based on the stats they give. I don't think Anet has considered nor has the resources to find a way to make sure that each player is taken care of based on the differences in price for runes that share the same stats with different 6 piece bonuses. It may be a good idea to offload really expensive runes now and avoid the headache, but there is no guarantee that that is the right choice based on whether or not Anet will compensate for the sudden shift. Either way the TP is going to get ugly up to the release date due to uncertainty, or be a disaster after the release.

Also on a personal point of curiosity, how will the changes effect the seasonal runes, or runes required for achievements (eg scavenging)

 

 

Edited July 12, 2023 by Acheron.1580
Seasonal Runes too

[Balsa.3951]

very well written.

i have the speculation that we salvage runes to get stuff to get those new runes.

which may or may not will price spike runes for a while.

no idea 

[Gehenna.3625]

It's a very elaborate, long post just to say we don't know what's going to happen yet but there are all these potential pitfalls. I feel like I knew that before reading this as well. It's nice of you to put in the effort, but honestly, we just don't have enough information about this topic yet. 

[Barraind.7324]

On 7/12/2023 at 11:58 AM, Acheron.1580 said:

(which is another whole grab bag of issues when you consider people with multiple daily farming accounts but that's not here or there).

As an aside, based on some of what they have said about relics, and how other things have been introduced, I'm willing to bet almost anything it will be account bound, and theres a very good chance itll even be soulbound 

[Ashantara.8731]

24 minutes ago, Gehenna.3625 said:

It's a very elaborate, long post just to say we don't know what's going to happen yet but there are all these potential pitfalls. I feel like I knew that before reading this as well. It's nice of you to put in the effort, but honestly, we just don't have enough information about this topic yet. 

Gotta love the title, though -- sounds like a self-help life advise book. 😄

 

[Acheron.1580]

1 hour ago, Gehenna.3625 said:

It's a very elaborate, long post just to say we don't know what's going to happen yet but there are all these potential pitfalls. I feel like I knew that before reading this as well. It's nice of you to put in the effort, but honestly, we just don't have enough information about this topic yet. 

It's not even about "potential" pitfalls. I'll dumb it down even more without throwing numbers in. Runes share similar / identical stats with wildly different prices. There are a lot of runes out there in peoples builds, or just floating in the TP waiting to be sold. When runes become homogenized, runes across the board are going to plummet in value because:

A) Significantly more supply when runes get categorized into stat groups (and most likely much easier to craft since the expensive crafting ones were outliers)

B) the value is very demonstratively tied to the 6 piece bonus, which will be placed elsewhere

It's basic economics, this rework WILL affect rune prices negatively across the board. What are the possible outcomes? Runes have their current unique names but same stats across several? Unlikely as that would be unnecessarily confusing, and even if that was the case why would you buy the expensive ones over the cheap ones? Reclassify them all into the same name based on stat category? This is the simplest and most likely scenario,  in which case your Runes of the Chronomancer just became the same value as Rune of the Infiltrator, but have a fancy new name. There isn't a solution here where people with the expensive runes come out on top.

The unknowns are if Anet had even considered it, and if they have or are able to instate a plan around it. They haven't demonstrated they understand their own games economy, look what removing the easy jade rune stone farm did to the costs of every other resource used by Gen 3 legendary weapons, they all dropped in price because the bottleneck changed.

If you don't have legendary runes, you are still likely to lose money on the transition, how much depends on which and how many of the expensive runes you have.

Legendary anything is obviously more attractive the more characters you have on your account, but if runes are going to bottom out at 5-10 silver, or let's assume the category for ferocity is still around 1 gold (since the 3 runes that share those stats are reasonably tight), there's just no reasonable cutoff point where Legendary Runes are remotely worth it, even as a convenience item.

Edited July 13, 2023 by Acheron.1580

[Randulf.7614]

As I’ve said, it’s change for the sake of change. 
 

We are just going to have to live with though and we will get used to it, but it wasn’t something that was needed either or appears to be fully thought out given they just completely overlooked legendary runes, which I’m not sure how something like that happens

[Andy.5981]

Nicely written.

Personally I think anyone that has or achieves a full set of Legendary runes should have the ability to select any of the existing 6th stat bonus effects in the relic slot at any time.

Going forward, if they add new bonus effects as relics then if a player has a full set of Legendary runes and creates the new relic, it too is added to the list of freely selectable ones in the relic slot. If a player has normal runes it just creates a relic for them to slot in

As for none legendary rune users, at the very least each character on each account should get a box that allows them to select a one time relic selection. If they stick to the idea of one per account then that is a slap in the face to a lot of players and would be very unpopular.

Hope the above makes sense.

[perilisk.1874]

I'm fine with the additional flexibility too, but... if maximizing flexibility is what we want, why even worry about rune sets? Just split the set bonus evenly among the tiers and let people mix and match runes how they want.

[idpersona.3810]

38 minutes ago, Andy.5981 said:

Personally I think anyone that has or achieves a full set of Legendary runes should have the ability to select any of the existing 6th stat bonus effects in the relic slot at any time.

Going forward, if they add new bonus effects as relics then if a player has a full set of Legendary runes and creates the new relic, it too is added to the list of freely selectable ones in the relic slot. If a player has normal runes it just creates a relic for them to slot in

I wouldn't be overly upset if they, for legendary runes, unlocked all corresponding relics at the time of release. And then for new relics that come out down the line, they had to be earned alongside everyone else. I think that's a decent compromise position (not that our opinions necessarily matter) between having current access and having access to all future relics. Then no one actually loses anything going into the expansion. But it will still leave room for something to work for down the line. 

38 minutes ago, Andy.5981 said:

As for none legendary rune users, at the very least each character on each account should get a box that allows them to select a one time relic selection. If they stick to the idea of one per account then that is a slap in the face to a lot of players and would be very unpopular.

I would add one relic selection box per build that has full runes slotted. My main has 4 different builds/rune sets. Getting 1 box wouldn't really solve the problem on them.

I think once we all get passed the initial implementation, the rune/relic system has a lot of potential.

Edited July 13, 2023 by idpersona.3810

[Endaris.1452]

On 7/12/2023 at 10:58 AM, Acheron.1580 said:

Balthazar 6 silver

Grenth  7.5 silver

Krait 2.2 gold

Perplexity 4.4 gold

Tormenting 6.15 gold

and thorns which can only be bought through the wvw or HoT vendors. In this scenario, Balthazar runes aren't even 1% in value of Tormenting. Ignoring the hypothetical, you can still see the problem where the rune costs which share the same stats and have different finishing values have wide spreads of costs on the trading post.

You really shouldn't compare runes that don't give the same stats.

Tormenting, Perplexity and Krait runes are expensive because they are the only way to increase the duration for their conditions that much and because an expensive crafting recipe is their only acquisition method (and surprise, their TP value directly correlates to the value of their crafting materials!) while Balthazar and Grenth drop in droves on exotic armor and permanent upgrade extractors exist for people to make a profit from buying cheap exotic armor from the TP, extracting the rune, salvaging the armor and selling the rune on the TP.

These runes specifically will stay highly relevant and they're not the ones anyone is concerned about because we really primarily get them for their specific condition duration, not for the 6th effect. In many cases we take them even in spite of the 6th effect being bad.

Just remove that comparison if you don't want to get laughed at.

The value always depends on the acquisition method, crafting cost and the demand - except for dungeon runes that are basically priceless considering how much gold you could farm while farming dungeon currency instead.

Edited July 14, 2023 by Endaris.1452

[Healix.5819]

The simplest option was just adding a relic bonus to runes and allowing the rune to be equipped as a relic. This however would only delay the complaining from those who crafted a legendary rune to be used as a relic.

On 7/12/2023 at 9:58 AM, Acheron.1580 said:

- How expensive it will be to craft (or if crafting is even involved)?

For existing runes, the obvious answer is 6 runes of X, hundreds of research notes and whatever else = relic of X. Probably in the mystic forge.

[Acheron.1580]

9 hours ago, Endaris.1452 said:

These runes specifically will stay highly relevant and they're not the ones anyone is concerned about because we really primarily get them for their specific condition duration, not for the 6th effect. In many cases we take them even in spite of the 6th effect being bad.

I didn't feel like it was relevant so I didn't include it is also a concern that there are runes already that are just so good or don't even have a relevant 6 piece and my immediate thought is that the power creep is going to get ramped up again (already guaranteed extra stats, and with the ability to choose a specific 6 piece bonus that is better is going to make it happen). I think Anet will actually tweak those runes so they aren't going to be as strong as they are currently because otherwise it'll get out of hand. (And there is already SO much whining about condi vs power damage and how unfair it is they need less stats, which they don't but that's not this threads point).

The condition damage runes might not get changed beyond what they are that's true, but since they all have a very ignorable 6 piece already (except thorns which you can't trade) I kind of doubt it. I remember the insane amount of crying over the change to the 6 piece from tormenting, which suggests that its 6 piece was also a big factor for it's choice. I think when you have runes like that (Or the really weird outlier Elementalist which doesn't even really have a 6 piece already) they are going to bring them down in some way to try to curb the power creep which is obvious problem if they leave things the way they are, since in most rune's cases you will get more

stats that weren't there before, and in the case of these condition runes a 6 piece that is now relevant.

Additionally some of the relics themselves aren't going to reflect the 6 piece that accompanied the rune in the first place. In their own example of how relics work, rune of the thief is losing its original ability (10% bonus damage against flanked or defiant foes), and replaced with “Upon striking an enemy with a weapon skill that has a cooldown or resource cost, gain 1% strike damage for 6 seconds, up to a maximum of 5 stacks, and refresh duration of all stacks to 6 seconds.”

9 hours ago, Endaris.1452 said:

Just remove that comparison if you don't want to get laughed at.

Laughs are cheap, I'm going for confused.

 

Edited July 14, 2023 by Acheron.1580

[Endaris.1452]

17 minutes ago, Acheron.1580 said:

Additionally some of the relics themselves aren't going to reflect the 6 piece that accompanied the rune in the first place. In their own example of how relics work, rune of the thief is losing its original ability (10% bonus damage against flanked or defiant foes), and replaced with “Upon striking an enemy with a weapon skill that has a cooldown or resource cost, gain 1% strike damage for 6 seconds, up to a maximum of 5 stacks, and refresh duration of all stacks to 6 seconds.”

That should be entirely owed to their change of how defiant foes are always considered flanked now, making the current rune flat +10% with effectively no condition. It's still going to be better than current scholar except for some more extreme LI builds.

[Acheron.1580]

Oh I very much get why they are changing thief runes because as you said it's sort of a free 10% bonus damage for certain content, but I'm saying that we can't rely on current 6-pieces to remain as they are.

For runes that have bonuses for specific boons (like quickness, might, fury) and for specific conditions (bleed, poison, torment) I worry they are going to remove those and sell them back to you as relics.

Edited July 14, 2023 by Acheron.1580
Clarified really bad phrasing

[Linken.6345]

9 hours ago, Endaris.1452 said:

Snip

These runes specifically will stay highly relevant and they're not the ones anyone is concerned about because we really primarily get them for their specific condition duration, not for the 6th effect. In many cases we take them even in spite of the 6th effect being bad.

Snip

Well since Anet said the runes will give straight forward stat increases are you sure they will even give condi duration anymore?

[Acheron.1580]

2 minutes ago, Linken.6345 said:

Well since Anet said the runes will give straight forward stat increases are you sure they will even give condi duration anymore?

They might just make it flat expertise, and then again have relics specific to unique conditions that would "replace" the old condi runes. This just feels super likely to me.

Edited July 14, 2023 by Acheron.1580

[Astralporing.1957]

23 hours ago, Acheron.1580 said:

Legendary anything is obviously more attractive the more characters you have on your account, but if runes are going to bottom out at 5-10 silver, or let's assume the category for ferocity is still around 1 gold (since the 3 runes that share those stats are reasonably tight), there's just no reasonable cutoff point where Legendary Runes are remotely worth it, even as a convenience item.

They were borderline overpriced anyway, and worth it pretty much only for the assurance of being able to immediately adjust to new balance changes without the need of either having to buy new runes or carting a ton of spares in inventory/bank. Notice, btw, that both of those functions will likely be gone - because when runes are getting balanced, it usually affects only their special bonuses, not stats. So, it is extremely likely that your new set of power dps runes will last you a lifetime, and all the potential changes will be limited to relics.

[Acheron.1580]

1 minute ago, Astralporing.1957 said:

They were borderline overpriced anyway, and worth it pretty much only for the assurance of being able to immediately adjust to new balance changes without the need of either having to buy new runes or carting a ton of spares in inventory/bank. Notice, btw, that both of those functions will likely be gone - because when runes are getting balanced, it usually affects only their special bonuses, not stats. So, it is extremely likely that your new set of power dps runes will last you a lifetime, and all the potential changes will be limited to relics.

Yup that's where I'm seeing it too. You will basically need 1 meta rune setup per build and there's going to be a huge abundance of runes piling into the TP because there's going to be less need to have more than 1 set for power, 1 set for condi, maybe 1 set for healing / boon support. Since there will be less overall need to buy more runes and there will be more of them they are going to be the lowest possible value the TP can set them at, maybe not immediately but inevitably.

[Gehenna.3625]

On 7/13/2023 at 10:12 PM, Acheron.1580 said:

It's not even about "potential" pitfalls. I'll dumb it down even more without throwing numbers in. Runes share similar / identical stats with wildly different prices. There are a lot of runes out there in peoples builds, or just floating in the TP waiting to be sold. When runes become homogenized, runes across the board are going to plummet in value because:

A) Significantly more supply when runes get categorized into stat groups (and most likely much easier to craft since the expensive crafting ones were outliers)

B) the value is very demonstratively tied to the 6 piece bonus, which will be placed elsewhere

It's basic economics, this rework WILL affect rune prices negatively across the board. What are the possible outcomes? Runes have their current unique names but same stats across several? Unlikely as that would be unnecessarily confusing, and even if that was the case why would you buy the expensive ones over the cheap ones? Reclassify them all into the same name based on stat category? This is the simplest and most likely scenario,  in which case your Runes of the Chronomancer just became the same value as Rune of the Infiltrator, but have a fancy new name. There isn't a solution here where people with the expensive runes come out on top.

The unknowns are if Anet had even considered it, and if they have or are able to instate a plan around it. They haven't demonstrated they understand their own games economy, look what removing the easy jade rune stone farm did to the costs of every other resource used by Gen 3 legendary weapons, they all dropped in price because the bottleneck changed.

If you don't have legendary runes, you are still likely to lose money on the transition, how much depends on which and how many of the expensive runes you have.

Legendary anything is obviously more attractive the more characters you have on your account, but if runes are going to bottom out at 5-10 silver, or let's assume the category for ferocity is still around 1 gold (since the 3 runes that share those stats are reasonably tight), there's just no reasonable cutoff point where Legendary Runes are remotely worth it, even as a convenience item.

You make a lot of assumptions, like you assume that everything else will stay the same as it is now. What if they remove a bunch of superfluous runes? Economics are about supply and demand and they can manipulate both sides. If runes will become cheaper then that will be intended, but to assume that this will happen is pure speculation still at this moment.

We don't know how Anet will treat loot runes vs crafted runes, we don't know how they will simplify the list of runes and how they will treat current runes in people's inventories/banks.

It seems that your main concern is that people who have more valuable runes at this time (probably you), may lose out. Sure, that can happen. Less imaginary currency for you. It happens regularly in this game as you have indicated yourself. 

We also don't know how they will approach relics and if for example some of the more valuable runes can be transformed to relics or maybe be deconstructed for materials needed to craft them.

And just because they've done some things that you don't like, doesn't mean they don't understand their own economy. Again, you have a lot of assumptions and you build speculations on assumptions. Not a very solid ground to build on. And sure, I expect the prices of runes will likely change but I have no idea which way and how much. You have to take the relics in those calculations anyway because they represent both sides of the current rune market. There just are too many unknowns at this point.

[Acheron.1580]

I actually have legendary runes, which isn't relevant to the discussion at all because it still is about how they are implementing a system that I don't think they have considered. My main concern is simply that they haven't considered this and there will be some impending kitten storm after the expansion is launched as everyone comes to realize it. It is as equally important for the player as it is for Anet, should they actually read these forums.

1 hour ago, Gehenna.3625 said:

What if they remove a bunch of superfluous runes?

I mean that's pretty much what I've been saying since the beginning, which I assume means you just skimmed it. Again if they remove those runes, who gets left with the tab? Do they just disappear into the ether and nobody gets anything? Do they arbitrarily decide to make them into some other random rune? It doesn't even matter because no matter how they handle it it will affect economy.

1 hour ago, Gehenna.3625 said:

And sure, I expect the prices of runes will likely change but I have no idea which way and how much. You have to take the relics in those calculations anyway because they represent both sides of the current rune market.

Ok once again I AM taking relics into account. Which is the entire point of this, relics being a piece of the runes that are simply separated are WHY runes are being devalued. And it's really REALLY obvious which way rune prices are going to go, it takes the bare minimum of thinking about it to see that when you remove value from something, the price of it goes down. The ONLY way to take relics into the calculation is if they make taking runes apart part of the requirements to make relics, but it won't change the fact at all that runes will inherently have less value. At best that gives a half-assed solution to keeping runes from completely flooding the TP to the point of bottoming out at best, at least for a little while.

Yes there are assumptions but they are what I'd consider reasonable ones with the information we have at hand, with how they have explained their goals in handling runes, and even with basic speculation it doesn't change the fact that when you remove value from anything, it will affect the economy.

Edited July 15, 2023 by Acheron.1580

[Ashen.2907]

38 minutes ago, Acheron.1580 said:

, but it won't change the fact at all that runes will inherently have less value.

To be fair, if relics require breaking down large numbers of runes per relic then rune demand may go up. Though I think it would be more a matter of driving up the average rune price by raising prices on the lowest priced options first, and only impacting current higher value runes once those are gone. 

I dont really think Anet is going this way but requiring stacks of runes in the way that one needs stacks of mithril for other legendaries would likely result in rune price increases.

[Dante.1508]

Honestly at this point i no longer care about metas or min maxing.. so if they make it super hard to do or get i will just run 4 stats.. If that makes my game unplayable i will just quit. No more Gems no more Money, so yea..

All i asked for was new stories, new maps and new races with loots to make my characters look cool in the open world that i can do by my self.. stats and mechanics bore me to tears these days and just make most content way out of my league difficulty wise and ruins my playing for fun.. and honestly everything will get nerfed after anyway..

 

I just wanted more open world content was that too much to ask for. apparently it was.

Edited July 22, 2023 by Dante.1508

[Linken.6345]

34 minutes ago, Dante.1508 said:

Honestly at this point i no longer care about metas or min maxing.. so if they make it super hard to do or get i will just run 4 stats.. If that makes my game unplayable i will just quit. No more Gems no more Money, so yea..

All i asked for was new stories, new maps and new races with loots to make my characters look cool in the open world that i can do by my self.. stats and mechanics bore me to tears these day and just make most content out of my difficulty zones and ruins my playing for fun.. and honestly everything will get nerfed after anyway..

 

I just wanted more open world content was that too much to ask for. apparently it was.

Dont worry there will still be low intesitiy builds that work without the relics.

staff mirage and power rifle mechs come to mind.

And yea open world gets the most as usual so no worries there 3 whole maps a year, with only 1 fractal and 2 strikes that reuse story instances so low effort instance content on 2/3 of it.

Edited July 15, 2023 by Linken.6345

[Doggie.3184]

I wanted my Specter to have a pet but Specter is Condi only and the only pet rune for Condi is Lich which has terrible stats so I'm certainly gonna slap that little pet onto Tormenting Runes and enjoy being able to heal/buff myself with Scepter solo. o.o So it's a decent idea~ although they coulda just made a condi version of Ogre/Golemancer and a buncha other new types of runes. But I don't like the idea of extra inv clutter relics will likely bring or that I might not get a legendary relic for owning legendary runes.