Rune/relic new system poll

[otto.5684]

8 hours ago, Mell.4873 said:

Its there new direction, no more living world or 4th map tacked on to the end of any expansion like with EoD. 

They want to content drop us every year with a new expansion + updates for them every quarter. 

I can tolerate incomplete brand new product. I have zero tolerance for system upgrades that make the system worse, cuz it is incomplete. If it is incomplete it should not be released. 

[Mell.4873]

2 hours ago, otto.5684 said:

I can tolerate incomplete brand new product. I have zero tolerance for system upgrades that make the system worse, cuz it is incomplete. If it is incomplete it should not be released. 

True but it's what they did. I don't mind the new relics.

[Dirame.8521]

I am happy with the Relic system. There's already signs of an OP relic (not antitoxin). Even though it's built to check itself, it's still pretty strong. Condi guard wrecks with it if given the chance. There's other relics that I use like defender which is made stronger when stacked with heal on aegis and Mabon which is okay. 

Evasion relic is useful when playing Engie without kits or holosmith. 20% stronger regeneration relic is also a build one can tack on to a DPS build for Engie to add survivability to an already strong build. I could go on.

It is a given that not all relics will be useable but there are loads that are. You may not have the mind to figure out how to use it but know that there are other people who will come along and show us how it is done and then we will all call for nerfs.

[Buran.3796]

   New runes lost boon procs, 10% HP enhancements and tons of cool effects and interactions (summons, stealth with traps...). The new ones are just stat numbers, and most of them redundant, they have nothing unique.

   Relics, you have Speed, Antitoxin, Durability as useful in general. Then you have good ones for niche roles or specific specs as Monk7Water/Mercy for healers and Brawler for Willbender or Deadeye for Deadeye. Only condition relics have some variety or new interactions, but most are "cast X kind of skill or evade to proc Y for Z seconds". 

   The lack of fury, might, vigor or vuln stacks in the relics essentially means that either you reroll your class which is bad at proccing them (sorry folks, get a good one next time!) or wait for ANet to sell you in the form of pay to win new relics attached to the next expansion. I'm fine since my main procs everything but most of my alts are now just mules. Also, I'll miss DH trapper in PvP/romaing (the only game modes in which didn't suck).

[TheQuickFox.3826]

I dislike the current implementation because some of the T6 rune bonuses cannot be selected. And because legendary runes have been downgraded.

However, in principle, the design principle of decoupling the T6 rune bonus to an item that can be individually equipped is a good one. So when existing T6 rune bonus options are available and legendary relics have been released it will be an upgrade.

[Dagger.2035]

Decoupling the T6 bonus should have been a good thing, but it's amazing how this company always finds a way to mess things up.  It seems like they didn't like the passive damage bonus that you would get from runes so now relics require you to trigger the bonus.  This is an unfair system since certain professions will have an easier time triggering bonuses than others.  It also leads to spammy gameplay which is something they keep pushing the game towards.  I would rather use a skill when it makes sense instead of trying to trigger effects.

[Furball.1236]

I like the new relic concept. Just hope that they would change the tooltip to be more descriptive and that we would get back our lost unique 6th rune effect as new relics.

Edited August 26, 2023 by Furball.1236

[SleepyBat.9034]

21 minutes ago, Furball.1236 said:

I like the new relic concept. Just hope that they would change the tooltip to be more descriptive and that we would get back our lost unique 6th rune effect as new relics.

I think it'd be a good idea if all relics showed you when they're ready to proc. e.g. leadership relic can be wasted if you use it without conditions on yourself, it would be nice to know when the icd is up so I don't waste it which is very easy to do if you have an elite skill with a cd less than that of the relic.

Edited August 26, 2023 by SleepyBat.9034

[Tails.9372]

I don't have any issue with the system itself I just don't like any of the available relics. Taking the old runes and splitting up the stats and the final bonus is ultimately not a bad idea. But "what they took from us" and "what we got instead" is generally not on the same level and various things didn't even get an equivalent relic.

[Jski.6180]

Ya the system seems good but i like to see them maybe buff a few of the current relic and i love to see them add more in.

[Leo G.4501]

Lowkey, I kinda wish they had just kept the runes how they were with the 6th bonus being the unique effect that it was along with any other extras tacked on....and they simply added the relic slot as another piece to build your character that acted as another effect like the 6th rune bonus. You can then alter/add/rebalance/rework various rune bonuses/effects and still have relics to select the unique effect of your choosing, even having duplicate effects to the 6th slot but non-stacking. Some could view it as power creep, but adding more stats to the 6th slot to replace the effect is effectively the same kind of power creep. It'd be win win, IMO. Like having 2 sigil slots but these are final runeset bonuses.

[Sansar.1302]

9 hours ago, Tails.9372 said:

I don't have any issue with the system itself I just don't like any of the available relics. Taking the old runes and splitting up the stats and the final bonus is ultimately not a bad idea. But "what they took from us" and "what we got instead" is generally not on the same level and various things didn't even get an equivalent relic.

This is so spot on

[HnRkLnXqZ.1870]

They have removed a massive chunk of the commonly used 6th rune bonuses. A lot of builds are rendered broken, underperforming or just unplayable. There was no warning about which things were about to get removed. Instead ANet promised that NOTHING will be removed. And waiting for 'later' to see more relics being added is not a solution. The stuff is broken now, not later. The relics that have been added on launch do not replace the original effects. In fact they are in most cases weaker - yes some are very powerful, hence why I say most. In addition, they do not work properly.

They should have run an beta-phase for the relics to thin out the most annoying bugs. Instead we are currently beta-testing. They have posted a known-issues-tracker, which gets updated once in a blue moon = not useful at all. So most of the time, we once again have to rely on player-to-player communication, regarding relic functionality.

This however is the good part of the story. Our community is as strong and helpful as usual. People are working together to find workarounds for all kinds of problems or warn each others about malfunctioning stuff. We will get through this mess, but it will be a long chore.

[Gaiawolf.8261]

I don't mind if the relics aren't quite as strong as the bonuses we lost. We've had enough powercreep in the game over the years, it can afford to be scaled by a marginal amount. As long as the effects are properly balanced. The reliance on elite and healing skill procs is an example of imbalance between classes for these relics. Not good.

But what I am really not okay with is the outright removal of certain effects. So many builds lost some cornerstone abilities or iconic effects. This system needs to be finished soon or put on the shelf until it's ready for everyone, without disrupting their builds so much.

[Sindust.7059]

I like the idea, but I couldn't find a single relic that I thought was worth slotting. Everyone thought they would introduce power creep, but all the power creep we see is from the new weapons, and the relics are just a straight nerf compared to the old runes.

[Jijimuge.4675]

19 hours ago, Sindust.7059 said:

I like the idea, but I couldn't find a single relic that I thought was worth slotting. Everyone thought they would introduce power creep, but all the power creep we see is from the new weapons, and the relics are just a straight nerf compared to the old runes.

It depends on what one's build was IMO.  In some cases (e.g. my power chrono) none of the relics appeal very much - thief is kind of OK, but won't apply to phantasms.

However, in other cases, the new rune/relic setup is definite power creep.

E.g. if one previously had runes of the Nightmare (used to be Meta for some builds), one would gain +175 Condi dam, +15% condi duration, +10% fear duration, and a condi transfer and blind on elite skill use (45s cd)

Afterwards, several of my condi DPS characters can instead go for runes of the Trapper and Relic of the Aristocracy - this combo gives me +300 Condi damage and +30% condi duration (assuming that one gets the relic to work - pretty easy in most cases)

As to the general idea of the new relics, I like it in principle, but think that Anet need to address the significant balance issues that have arisen as a result

Edited August 28, 2023 by Jijimuge.4675
typo - and clarification re chronomancer

[coro.3176]

On 8/26/2023 at 6:07 AM, Dagger.2035 said:

Decoupling the T6 bonus should have been a good thing, but it's amazing how this company always finds a way to mess things up.  It seems like they didn't like the passive damage bonus that you would get from runes so now relics require you to trigger the bonus.  This is an unfair system since certain professions will have an easier time triggering bonuses than others.  It also leads to spammy gameplay which is something they keep pushing the game towards.  I would rather use a skill when it makes sense instead of trying to trigger effects.

Right. My beef with these "active" relics is that everyone is just going to pick the one that matches the playstyle they have *anyway*, and the bonus is effectively passive, sidestepping their design. Consider

• Upon striking an enemy with a weapon skill that has a recharge or resource cost, gain 1% strike damage for 6 seconds, up to a maximum of 5 stacks, and refresh duration of all stacks to 6 seconds. - So basically, any build that's not spamming an autoattack rotation. Are there any builds where this relic doesn't just passively work?
• Upon applying barrier to an ally, gain 1.5% condition duration for 6 seconds, up to a maximum of 10 stacks, and refresh duration of all stacks to 6 seconds. (Cooldown: 1 Second) - Any build that is already applying barrier on a regular interval...
• Gain 3% condition duration for 8 seconds when inflicting weakness or vulnerability on a foe, up to a maximum of 5 stacks. (Cooldown: 1 Second) - Any build that is already applying vuln (or less commonly, weakness)

[Bunny.9834]

Not a big fan of this relic systems.

First, the fact that I have to replace all of them on all 60 of my toons is extremely annoying. 

Second, a lot of the ones that were build specific are now gone. 

 

[dukefx.9730]

I like the separation, but most of the relics suck. They hardly provide anything meaningful and most of them are tied to skills. What's even worse is that I can hardly imagine any real use for most on elite and on heal effects. There are also ICDs on some effects that previously didn't have an ICD making them go from okayish to straight out useless. Relics need a serious buff and much easier triggers.

[Matoro.9708]

18 hours ago, dukefx.9730 said:

I like the separation, but most of the relics suck. They hardly provide anything meaningful and most of them are tied to skills. What's even worse is that I can hardly imagine any real use for most on elite and on heal effects. There are also ICDs on some effects that previously didn't have an ICD making them go from okayish to straight out useless. Relics need a serious buff and much easier triggers.

They trigger me very easily

[Thron Stal.9367]

On 8/24/2023 at 9:14 AM, otto.5684 said:

I wonder what people think of the new runes/relic system. While I think the concept is good, the removal of most 6th rune effect is atrocious.

Looks like people hate it.  Anet, are you there, feedback has been given. Change it. 

[Sansar.1302]

Yes give us the old 6th pice bonuses back

So many of the build defining ones are gone without any buffs to affected builds. 

On some classes you almost don't feel it and on other classes whole builds are completely ruined. 

[Stx.4857]

I like the new system a lot, I think the available options need some balancing and for relics need more options.