Gem prices are going out of control

[Shiyo.3578]

On 11/27/2023 at 8:26 AM, nellone.5836 said:

Don't know exactly what is causing this, maybe all the "free gold" got from the wizard's vault, but the gems are getting absurd conversion prices, i was thinking it was pretty crazy when yesterday i saw 41golds for 100 gems, but today is going over 54!
Is it maybe the case to force the price at a fixed rate, like Anet already did in the past?
I hope for the best....

New legendary armor is unsellable mats for some unknown reason so the value of gold is decreasing for gems > gold.

This means gold > gems increases.

Has very little to do with the vault, and is all about the bad rewards structure of SotO.

Edited December 2, 2023 by Shiyo.3578

[Danikat.8537]

I haven't logged in yet today, but I just noticed on GW2 Efficiency it looks like the gem price has almost gone back down to what it was before the Black Friday sales started. The graph on that site is showing 40g for 100 gems and for most of 2023 it's been around 37g for 100 gems.

[evilcat.6817]

DOOOOM!

The price was around 155g/400g last time, so it was just a sale fever.

[ugrakarma.9416]

was just mega discount promo anet did past week, i myself have bougth "eletromagnetic combo", converting gold to gems.

prices goes normal over time.

[IAmNotMatthew.1058]

Don't you guys bring logic into this, people must blame WV for something.

[Parasite.5389]

On 11/27/2023 at 2:59 PM, Parasite.5389 said:

Just so we're clear, because i feel like we're getting off on the wrong foot, i'm not saying the gem prices aren't crazy atm, but looking at the Data, the WV isn't the cause.

If we look at the Gold> convertion rates since SotO's release https://i.imgur.com/YxI42Vh.png
we see a steady price from August 22nd when the Vault was introduced up until October 17th, this suggests that the WV has no notable effect on the price of Gold>gem conversions: the Oct 17th spike coinicides with the start of this years Halloween event where multiple sales were held and new items released, this trend continued up until Nov 21st, where we see the start of the black friday deals

as a Followup to my earlier post: oh look, as soon as the sales end, the prices drop... kitten that pesky Wizards Vault! https://i.imgur.com/6EwzB9G.png

[Values.5278]

On 11/27/2023 at 6:59 AM, Parasite.5389 said:

Just so we're clear, because i feel like we're getting off on the wrong foot, i'm not saying the gem prices aren't crazy atm, but looking at the Data, the WV isn't the cause.

If we look at the Gold> convertion rates since SotO's release https://i.imgur.com/YxI42Vh.png
we see a steady price from August 22nd when the Vault was introduced up until October 17th, this suggests that the WV has no notable effect on the price of Gold>gem conversions: the Oct 17th spike coinicides with the start of this years Halloween event where multiple sales were held and new items released, this trend continued up until Nov 21st, where we see the start of the black friday deals

I rarely post on the forums, but your contributions to this thread have just been so consistently incorrect that I have just no choice.

Do you even know how the WV functions? I have to assume you don't, or there's no way you would think (1) that WV would result in INSTANT inflation, nor (2) that WV would not cause substantial inflation.

Just look at WV. It throws 500g of value at every player every season in the form of the legendary starter kit, and another 200g worth of value among the other decent-exchange cheap materials. 700g entering everybody's pocket - and the poorest players are the fastest spenders. How could you possibly imagine that this wouldn't lead to inflation? Or, better question: why would you think that the inflation would be obvious on day 1, when nobody has AA for the legendary starter kit & poor players are not yet able to liquidate it?

Really boggles the mind how someone can think that endless free money can be given out to people and not result in noticeable inflation down the line.

EDIT: And yes, just to be clear, obviously the exchange prices spikes during sales. This has always happened. Look into historical gold>gem conversions over time and you'll see that the overall derivative has increased since SotO release.

Edited January 11 by Values.5278

[Jumpin Lumpix.6108]

Price of gems has been going up since day 1.  Its due to more gold being injected into the economy (inflation) - people have more gold find on their accounts than before.  Wizards vault adds way more gold to the economy than previous dailies. It also comes from gold sinks not being adequate enough. It could come from bots endlessly farming and anet not banning them (RMT).

It can also be from players buying more gems and converting to gold.

It could also be anet just artificially inflating it.

gotta be one of or all of these issues.

either way it benefits anet.  IF everything costs more and its not that much easier to get gold than it always has been, then buying gems and converting to gold becomes more worth it and anet makes sales, so there's no incentive to stop the trend really, unless people complain and quit over it because everything is so expensive the game is unplayable in some way.

Edited January 11 by Jumpin Lumpix.6108

[Cuks.8241]

7 hours ago, Values.5278 said:

I rarely post on the forums, but your contributions to this thread have just been so consistently incorrect that I have just no choice.

Do you even know how the WV functions? I have to assume you don't, or there's no way you would think (1) that WV would result in INSTANT inflation, nor (2) that WV would not cause substantial inflation.

Just look at WV. It throws 500g of value at every player every season in the form of the legendary starter kit, and another 200g worth of value among the other decent-exchange cheap materials. 700g entering everybody's pocket - and the poorest players are the fastest spenders. How could you possibly imagine that this wouldn't lead to inflation? Or, better question: why would you think that the inflation would be obvious on day 1, when nobody has AA for the legendary starter kit & poor players are not yet able to liquidate it?

Really boggles the mind how someone can think that endless free money can be given out to people and not result in noticeable inflation down the line.

EDIT: And yes, just to be clear, obviously the exchange prices spikes during sales. This has always happened. Look into historical gold>gem conversions over time and you'll see that the overall derivative has increased since SotO release.

Materials dont cause inflation, its actually other way around. Additional influx of materials  on the market causes price drop.

Legendary kits and material bags have nothing to do with inflation. You dont get 700g out of it. You can only trade for gold  with other players, no gold is generated, its actually removed from the market via tax. Less gold on market, prices go down.

Only injection of pure gold currency causes inflation. Or scarcity of raw materials by providing additional sinks. And we got plenty of both lately. 

[Astralporing.1957]

11 hours ago, Jumpin Lumpix.6108 said:

Price of gems has been going up since day 1.  Its due to more gold being injected into the economy (inflation) - people have more gold find on their accounts than before.

Apart from the initial months (where the economy was still in flux and was yet to settle down), we've had practically next to no inflation for 10 years. It's only since SotO that things started to change. Up until very recently gold sinks in the game (with the biggest being the TP) worked pretty much fine to countermand the faucets and making sure that at least as much gold gets destroyed as enters the economy.

Vault is the first time since veeery long ago that players got rewarded with significant influx of actual, liquid gold, as opposed to higher value materials (that get you gold when sold, but not actually produce any, and even cause some to be destroyed due to TP tax). Previous case i can remember was due to the first Crown Pavillon, during original LS1 run (and the infamous then deadeye farming was effectively impacting a much, much smaller amount of players).

[Parasite.5389]

*cough* next to no inflation for 10 years*cough*

https://i.imgur.com/v9Pb7ls.png

Edited January 12 by Parasite.5389

[Teknomancer.4895]

ANet ran probably the biggest sale in the history of the game; nearly everything was available including some stuff that hadn't made an appearance in years.

Of course conversion rates went up, people wanted to buy the shinies. After emptying wallets and raiding material storage (GW2's version of ransacking the couch cushions), all those people dumping gold into the exchange decreased the supply of available gems.

Too much money chasing too few goods is the textbook driver for price increases.

[Buzzbugs.1236]

The people in this thread applying economic thought to Gem and Gold value is laughable.

Gems and Gold in GW2 are not a real commodity. They have no real value except for what Anet decide to make it because Gem's are just another form of DLC that you see in most games these days. To even imply that somehow there's a real market here that fluctuates independently (including "inflation" LOL) is absolute rubbish.

You are paying more Gold for Gems because Anet put the price up. Period, end of story.

Edited January 12 by Buzzbugs.1236

[Vavume.8065]

On 11/27/2023 at 1:49 PM, Parasite.5389 said:

people are buying more gems, thus the price increasing, it's simple economics, not rocket science

People are buying more gems because the wizard vault made gold easier to obtain, it's not rocket science.

[kharmin.7683]

3 hours ago, Vavume.8065 said:

People are buying more gems because the wizard vault made gold easier to obtain, it's not rocket science.

That's what I tried to argue, but there were a few who discounted this point.

[fatihso.7258]

If you think gold gem conversions are free market, you are wrong. Anet has the ropes of it and adjusts whenever they feel like. It's not only the player demand and supply that has an effect on rates. 

[Yttris.2945]

On 1/11/2024 at 11:16 AM, Values.5278 said:

I rarely post on the forums, but your contributions to this thread have just been so consistently incorrect that I have just no choice.

"Are you coming to bed?"
"I can't. This is important."
"What?"
"Someone is wrong on the internet."

https://xkcd.com/386/

Edited January 13 by Yttris.2945

[Mistwraithe.3106]

6 hours ago, fatihso.7258 said:

If you think gold gem conversions are free market, you are wrong. Anet has the ropes of it and adjusts whenever they feel like. It's not only the player demand and supply that has an effect on rates. 

Source?

I am sure they reserve the right to but I am also pretty sure that 99.99+% of the time they have minimal interest in doing so.

[Lucy.3728]

13 hours ago, Buzzbugs.1236 said:

ou are paying more Gold for Gems because Anet put the price up. Period, end of story.

    Are you rather new to the game?

    It's much easier to get gold with almost no effort, but your normal playing (astral acclaim, higher prices for materials), and you don't have to spend much gold on gear anymore because of the vault (ascended armor/weapons) and the NPCs that sell stats-select gear (anything exotic, even breathers) with low requirements.
I equipped my 4th account faster and cheaper than any other account before and I could choose my stats - so very beginner friendly. 👍

    So more gold income and less gold expenses = more gold reserves.

    Of course, this is reflected in the gem price.

 

Edited January 13 by Lucy.3728

[Sobx.1758]

16 hours ago, Buzzbugs.1236 said:

The people in this thread applying economic thought to Gem and Gold value is laughable.

Gems and Gold in GW2 are not a real commodity. They have no real value except for what Anet decide to make it because Gem's are just another form of DLC that you see in most games these days. To even imply that somehow there's a real market here that fluctuates independently (including "inflation" LOL) is absolute rubbish.

You are paying more Gold for Gems because Anet put the price up. Period, end of story.

Sorry to break the bubble, but thinking that -basically- "this is not a tangible good so economics don't apply!" is wrong and "DLC" doesn't mean what you think it does.

Edited January 13 by Sobx.1758

[IAmNotMatthew.1058]

14 hours ago, Vavume.8065 said:

People are buying more gems because the wizard vault made gold easier to obtain, it's not rocket science.

But, but, Wizard's Vault is less rewarding FOMO filled grindfest! People told me that when Soto was released.

[Zohane.7208]

16 hours ago, Buzzbugs.1236 said:

The people in this thread applying economic thought to Gem and Gold value is laughable.

Gems and Gold in GW2 are not a real commodity. They have no real value except for what Anet decide to make it because Gem's are just another form of DLC that you see in most games these days. To even imply that somehow there's a real market here that fluctuates independently (including "inflation" LOL) is absolute rubbish.

You are paying more Gold for Gems because Anet put the price up. Period, end of story.

I got news for you: NOTHING in this game is a real commodity; they're all virtual.

Now that that's out of the way, here's how Anet explained how gems work:
At launch, Anet set up a pool of gems - it's not known how many they were, but let's say 10M.
When people buy gems for RL money, this generates gems in their account, effectively increasing the number of gems existing in the game. When people buy things for gems, this removes gems from them, effectively lowering the amount of gems in the game.
When a player uses gems to buy gold, the gems are put in the pool of gems, thus lowering the value of gems in the pool.
When a player uses gold to buy gems, these are bought from the pool, thus increasing the value of the gems.

Now, could Anet add gems to the pool, thus lowering the cost of gems? Yes, of course they could, but they said they wouldn't and to the best of my knowledge, this hasn't happened.
Back at launch, you could buy gems for gold at about 1g/400gems or so, right now it's about 150+g/400gems and it's been a lot higher.

[Teknomancer.4895]

17 hours ago, Buzzbugs.1236 said:

The people in this thread applying economic thought to Gem and Gold value is laughable.

Gems and Gold in GW2 are not a real commodity. They have no real value

Bitcoins and other blockchain clones aren't real commodities either, does that mean they're worthless and exist outside the realm of economics? Of course not.

Consider a Taylor Swift concert. There's no real commodity there, it's a performance session being sold as entertainment. You don't receive any material thing for having attended a concert (unless you separately buy merch while you're there, which is its own transaction). Does that mean it's not real? Are the people paying outrageous prices for the limited number of available venue seats to see the world's biggest pop star really trying to buy something fake?

Economic principles apply to the transactions of you, me, and everyone on the planet whether you believe that or not. Supply and demand doesn't care if you don't believe in it.

[Buzzbugs.1236]

Now we're comparing Gems and Gold to Bitcoins and blockchains??

Oh lord in heaven please save me 🤣

[Cyninja.2954]

45 minutes ago, Buzzbugs.1236 said:

Now we're comparing Gems and Gold to Bitcoins and blockchains??

Oh lord in heaven please save me 🤣

You not understanding basic principles of supply and demand can apply to both: gems in this game and bitcoins. 🤷‍♀️

There are reasonable and recurring economic and behavioral explanations which explain gold to gem behavior. There are also baseless mumbo jumbo assumptions which could also explain the effects seen. Everyone gets to take their pick of what they believe in.

Edited January 13 by Cyninja.2954