Nerf Sorrow please

[Moi.5013]

Its pretty kitten annoying to spend 30 minutes in a convergence to have it fail on Sorrow because the instance is full of AFK-ers and lazy skcyscale riders that just shoot fireballs to keep participation.  Its never an issue with demon knight, he's killable even with half the map barely participating but Sorrow is so much more difficult and if you don't have decent participation its a guaranteed fail.  Either make it so Sorrow does not appear in public convergence or make it easier.  

[Arianth Moonlight.6453]

5 minutes ago, Moi.5013 said:

make it so Sorrow does not appear in public convergence

this is how it should be.

[Kiki.9450]

Sorrow is rough... So many mechanics that just whip you around, and that short timespan to break the bar, which pops up frequently. And those laser-shooting babies can hurt.

So far I've found the most success in doing Convergences early in the week, but I realise this won't work for everyone.

[Blood Red Arachnid.2493]

Part of me thinks that instances full of AFKers and Skyscale campers should fail, because that type of behavior shouldn't be rewarded.  

[TexZero.7910]

12 minutes ago, Blood Red Arachnid.2493 said:

Part of me thinks that instances full of AFKers and Skyscale campers should fail, because that type of behavior shouldn't be rewarded.  

I agree.
That's probably why anet has Private Instances. So you can guarentee success and not deal with this kind of behavior.

[Loctar.3987]

7 hours ago, Moi.5013 said:

Its pretty kitten annoying to spend 30 minutes in a convergence to have it fail on Sorrow because the instance is full of AFK-ers and lazy skcyscale riders that just shoot fireballs to keep participation.  Its never an issue with demon knight, he's killable even with half the map barely participating but Sorrow is so much more difficult and if you don't have decent participation its a guaranteed fail.  Either make it so Sorrow does not appear in public convergence or make it easier.  

So the problem is not Sorrow but a lot of afk people in the instance. My advice, only go private until Anet is smart enough to introduce a mechanic to punish players who don't complete events. Why it's not from the start is a mystery to me, they solved the same problem with Dragonstorm. I don't understand why they didn't learn from old mistakes and make them again 

[Pifil.5193]

4 hours ago, Blood Red Arachnid.2493 said:

Part of me thinks that instances full of AFKers and Skyscale campers should fail, because that type of behavior shouldn't be rewarded.  

Yeah but it sure sucks for everyone stuck in the same instance as them.

I wish Stability worked against Sorrow's bouncy bouncy, spinny around BS but no, multiple stacks of Stab and I'm still trying not to lose my lunch. 

[Pifil.5193]

47 minutes ago, Loctar.3987 said:

I don't understand why they didn't learn from old mistakes and make them again 

Seems to be a recurring theme, doesn't it.

[vares.8457]

I have done over 50 public convergences so far and I haven’t seen one fail. No need to nerf sorrow. 

[Pifil.5193]

Just because you haven't seen it doesn't mean there's no problem. It just means you haven't seen it. Congratulations on being lucky.

I've seen it fail twice this weekend.

[vares.8457]

5 minutes ago, Pifil.5193 said:

Just because you haven't seen it doesn't mean there's no problem. It just means you haven't seen it. Congratulations on being lucky.

I've seen it fail twice this weekend.

There is no problem. Not everything has to be a win 100%. If you fail be better next time or join private instances. 

Edited January 14 by vares.8457

[Buzzbugs.1236]

8 hours ago, Moi.5013 said:

Its pretty kitten annoying to spend 30 minutes in a convergence to have it fail on Sorrow because the instance is full of AFK-ers and lazy skcyscale riders

It's ArenaNet's fault for their boring encounter design. If people are being lazy and afking that means they are bored, and I don't blame them. Pressing 23456 on the keyboard for 30 minutes while watching a health bar % Slooooowly tick down from 100% is mind numbing kitten.

[DanAlcedo.3281]

No convergence should last longer then 20min. Yes, even public.

From my experience, if the boss is not dead by 20min. Its a 95% fail rate.

Why?

Abysmal dps.

Thats ALWAYS the problem. Not CC or any other BS people say.

A semi competent group of people kill a Island Champ in 20 seconds.

The average group needs about 60 seconds.

If it takes longer, just leave. Not worth the time.

Its so crazy to watch 50 people jump Sorrow only for the HP bar to not even move.

 

Just join a Privat LFG and beat the Convergence in 15min.

 

Edited January 14 by DanAlcedo.3281

[Andy.5981]

They don't need to nerf the actual encounter.

Just make it so that you 1) cannot damage anything with skyscale fireballs. and 2) introduce a Participation counter for taking part in each phase.

If you don't have the counters you don't do any damage on the next phase. To get a reward from the boss you need all the participation levels from the previous phases.

Phase 1 - helping Zojja, killing Avatars of spite, destroying seige weapons or of the three Kryptis champions gives you Participation Level 1

Phase 2 - if you've not done any of the above you then you won't have Participation level 1 and therefore cannot damage anything. If you actively take part in this phase by killing seige, avatars of spite, a kryptis lieutenant, Generals etc, you receive Participation level 2.

Phase 3 - Legendary Sorrow/Demon Knight. If you've not got Participation level 1 and 2 you don't do any damage and get no loot at the end. Actively attacking the boss gives Pariticipation level 3.

Boss dies - you've got all 3 Participation levels? Nice, you get loot.

The above won't affect anyone playing to win, only AFKr's

Edited January 14 by Andy.5981

[Cyninja.2954]

1 hour ago, vares.8457 said:

I have done over 50 public convergences so far and I haven’t seen one fail. No need to nerf sorrow. 

44 convergences total, 42 wins and 2 fails. Agreed.

Main reason for fails: lack of boons, many afks, players not doing mechanics, excessive greed.

Being part of the solution:

1. bring an actually useful build

This one gets its own spot. That cookie cutter personal garbage open world build some players run, replace it with something useful. Go full celestial if need be and bring boons. There are enough resources available by now. There is no excuse for being useless in today's day and age. You can go back to your personal "fun" build after the convergence is over (EDIT: and I am not sugar coating this because it gets tiresome to even have to mention this by now)

2. bring a boon dps build

Boons are the biggest force multiplier you can bring. They will improve player performance around you the most.

3. bring a boon support/healing build

Similar to 2. Defensive support builds increase player uptime on the boss by reducing downstate. The only downside here is: you don't want to many defensive support builds

4. bring cc

Many classes can replace or take some cc skills. Do so and actually use those skills on break bars. Nice bonus: you might even occasionally complete a daily that way

5. tag up, drop food

This can go a long way in improving the groups motivation and performance. 50 players having food or not makes a huge difference

 

That said, here some more pointers:

1. don't late join convergences. My personal experience has been that players which join asap are more awake/present. This might be just personal observation bias since 44 convergences is a tiny sample size

2. don't greed on dps excessively. Pay attention to mechanics and heal Zojja if need be. Going downstate with those 50 stacks servers no one

3. join private convergences. More and more players are opening and running private convergences because it is safer versus rolling the dice on public afk fiestas. Make sure to actively participate since commanders which pay attention will kick you

Edited January 14 by Cyninja.2954

[Luthan.5236]

I have done 3 per week. 30 now. Maybe 2-3 fails. The convergences take more than 20 minutes most of the time though. More like 23-26 minutes most of the time for me. People takt it slow at the earlier phases and the "not splitting" is still a common mistake. (When the champs seem to scale well and take not that long when splitting.) It is always one corner that is completely empty and stays empty even when people report it - until it is left as last and everyone zergs there. 😄

[IAmNotMatthew.1058]

2 hours ago, Pifil.5193 said:

Just because you haven't seen it doesn't mean there's no problem. It just means you haven't seen it. Congratulations on being lucky.

I've seen it fail twice this weekend.

I've been doing Convergences since release and have yet to see Sorrow fail a single time, even though I have only seen DK 7 times so far. I feel sorry for you being unlucky.

[Biziut.3594]

So as others said it's the problem of afk'ers, not the boss itslef.

Solution? Go private, You will get both, a guaranteed kill and You will cut leeches from their loot source.

[Dadnir.5038]

2 hours ago, Andy.5981 said:

The above won't affect anyone playing to win, only AFKr's

I believe the issue is that the AFKr's affect the one that play to win. The game is coded in a way that the massive attribute pool of the mobs increase even more as there are more player characters around. Due to that, the more AFKrs, the more challenging it is for the one that play to win to actually win.

Also, your "suggestion" can only generate a wave of complaints from players that don't manage to find convergence where the various pre phase haven't already been done and thus they find themself unable to participate to the fight.

[GBEW.5947]

No, this very easy pve meta event does not need a nerf. Get better at the game this type of situation wont be a problem. i would assume a fractal party can do an entire convergence by themselves there is no excuse for 50 players to fail, and sorrow is far from difficult. 

[Linken.6345]

6 hours ago, Loctar.3987 said:

So the problem is not Sorrow but a lot of afk people in the instance. My advice, only go private until Anet is smart enough to introduce a mechanic to punish players who don't complete events. Why it's not from the start is a mystery to me, they solved the same problem with Dragonstorm. I don't understand why they didn't learn from old mistakes and make them again 

Other devs made the new content most likely

[Kiki.9450]

12 hours ago, Kiki.9450 said:

Sorrow is rough... So many mechanics that just whip you around, and that short timespan to break the bar, which pops up frequently. And those laser-shooting babies can hurt.

So far I've found the most success in doing Convergences early in the week, but I realise this won't work for everyone.

Wow all these down-doots. I guess it's like everyone else is saying then that it's AFKers. I guess there's less AFK people during Monday through Thursday? Because I haven't lost any Sorrows since running them then.

I do agree something needs to be done about punishing AFK players. Maybe kicking them out of the instance if they don't have participation after so long (two minutes?) and having participation degrade if it's not incremented/maintained after that same period of time.

[Ashen.2907]

7 hours ago, Pifil.5193 said:

Just because you haven't seen it doesn't mean there's no problem. It just means you haven't seen it. Congratulations on being lucky.

I've seen it fail twice this weekend.

The existence of a possibility of failure is not a problem. Without the possibility of losing winning is meaningless. Without the possibility of failure there is no point in trying to succeed.

[Sobx.1758]

16 hours ago, Moi.5013 said:

because the instance is full of AFK-ers and lazy skcyscale riders that just shoot fireballs to keep participation

Well, that doesn't look like an issue with the boss, rather with certain player behavior. I think "this boss is harder to leech off of, so it shouldn't appear in public instances" is a backwards approach that doesn't target the actual issue. 

Done ~25, at one point I had a streak of 11 sorrows in a row, failed 0 convergences for now. For now going through lfg with commie kicking eventual blatant leechers/afkers is the answer here. Another answer would be improving participation requirements and removing skyscale fireball granting any participation (outside of siege damage). They improved DS in the past, I believe they can do similar for conv.

Edited January 14 by Sobx.1758

[Andy.5981]

5 hours ago, Dadnir.5038 said:

I believe the issue is that the AFKr's affect the one that play to win. The game is coded in a way that the massive attribute pool of the mobs increase even more as there are more player characters around. Due to that, the more AFKrs, the more challenging it is for the one that play to win to actually win.

Also, your "suggestion" can only generate a wave of complaints from players that don't manage to find convergence where the various pre phase haven't already been done and thus they find themself unable to participate to the fight.

Yes that's fairly obvious from the OP and from the replies and yes I know how events scale due to numbers. I'm also well aware that the more AFK'rs there are the harder it is for those trying to win. I didn't just start playing the game yesterday!

That's the whole point of my suggestion. If you are not doing anything you shouldnt get any rewards. It would become pointless to just sit there AFK since you aren't going to get anything at the end of the event.

As for complaints from latecomers? Sorry, we all have clocks on our screens and can work out how to use /wiki et. You arrive late, the boat has sailed without you. 

Edited January 14 by Andy.5981