Speculation...what do "the people" think will be the strongest, or even just most fun class\build with the patch on Feb 27

[Joxer.6024]

Ok, so I have seen the polls and tier lists of the Twitchers and such on this subject, but just kinda curious as to what the mass majority feels about what will be strong or most fun or just plain out wonky?

Guardian pistols have you pumped? Necro swords leave you swinging? Engi shortbow has you...well, cant win em all, lol.  😉

Just some fun discussion as we all wait a month for things to drop.  😉

Edited January 22 by Joxer.6024

[Joxer.6024]

Oh and me personally, I am hoping the Guardian pistols stay strong, gonna go for a sort of Judge Dredd kind of vibe! But beings that Necro is my first love I really do hope they fix the damage on the swords. If so a ranged pReaper and maybe....maybe pHarb will be pretty sweet!

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

Looking forward to guardian pistols.

Looking forward to seeing how the screw up support on warrior.

[Infinity.2876]

I think mace range is going to be strongest (edit: still think so).

If they change things for the better (ie making immune to reflect in at least one atunement (ele can't weapon swap and conjure weapons suck so it really needs this)), ele pistol.

Seems fun: guardian pistol, engi shortbow, and revenant scepter.

Meh: thief axe (needs to be stronger), and warrior staff (needs a different berserk skill).

Needs help: Mesmer Riffle (edit: still think so)

Edited February 14 by Infinity.2876
New fixes for weapons

[Sweetbread.3678]

Condi pistol Weaver will probably have some insane bench that ends up blanket nerfing the entire profession.

[AliamRationem.5172]

6 hours ago, Sweetbread.3678 said:

Condi pistol Weaver will probably have some insane bench that ends up blanket nerfing the entire profession.

Pretty much the way of things when it comes to ele, isn't it?

[DanAlcedo.3281]

Alac Druid, which is already really good, gets a nice buff with Mace. 

[Yasai.3549]

Probably Guardian as always, gonna be strong. 

[Dadnir.5038]

First of all... With GW2 devs I wouldn't exclude the possibility that they might not release the new weapon yet. 😉

That said, in their alpha state:

• Ranger's mace and guardian's pistol seemed to be the weapons that were the most in line with what an average player want from a weapon.
• Some weapons had design that could potentially be seen as gamebreaking/OP due to excessive potential sustain. For example necromancer's sword and revenant's scepter.
• Warrior's staff and engineer's shortbow look like they can worm themself in the game and even the various meta.
• Thief's axe isn't really attractive in both the weapon choice and fonctionality.
• Elementalist's pistol is just a chore to play well which is an issue in itself since many players already struggle to play elementalist well with weapons that are less of a chore to play.
• Mesmer's rifle is like an exotic concept car that look interesting in a convention but that you wouldn't buy even if you had the money to buy it.

 

Edited January 23 by Dadnir.5038

[Buran.3796]

   The balance patches after EoD were an absolute rollercoaster even after 3 beta testing events. What I mean is that some of the new weapons will probably broken in some ways no one knowns but 3 or 6 months later nerfs could make them entirely useless and redundant.

   Also: a lot of the new weapons are focused on support since is what most professions lacked in one or other form, but we known that usually in instanced content and/or WvW the support spot is usually dominated by one or two specs, with everything which is either too complicated or slighly below the optimal oftenly relegated. That means that some of the weapons, nerfed or not, could be end not used at all not beacuse they are bad, but because your neighboor class is just a bit better.

[Ferus.3165]

dagger shield staff spellbreaker will be an invincible sidenoder in pvp. And in wvw i was able to generate 10k heals with the staff burst on core warrior for allies. Looks very good.

[draxynnic.3719]

So, thinking on this in terms of what I'm most looking forward to down to those I'm least likely to use without protest:

Warrior staff: Looks to be a decent bruiser-y weapon rather than a pure healing weapon and it doesn't rely too much on any gimmicks, so I can see lots of ways this could be incorporated into builds that aren't full DPS instanced content builds.

Mesmer rifle: Will probably be niche, but it's nice to see a mesmer healing weapon.

Ranger maces: Seemed solid enough, has potential for melee bruisers and as another support weapon.

Necromancer swords: Have some issues, and I'd have probably preferred melee condi swords with some improvements to axe for ranged power instead, but an alternative to ranged power is still nice to have.

Guardian pistols: Would be higher if they didn't have a foot-targeted symbol be a large part of the damage of a supposedly ranged weapon.

Thief axe: Gimmicky, but I can see uses for it.

Revenant sceptre: I like the lightsaber-esque theme, but it kind of feels like ArenaNet had two good but noncomplementary ideas and tried to shove them both on the same weapon regardless.

 

(Visual representation of the massive gap here. Seriously, I don't think I've ever seen an official weapon concept in GW2 I disliked as much as these two.)

 

Elementalist pistol: It's like they saw what people didn't like about elementalist and crafted a weapon that showcased all of the sore points except one: at least it's not melee.

Engineer shortbow: Bleh. I mean, stealing energy from other professions is an interesting concept, but I could just play those professions, they could have found something that's more uniquely engineer. It's gimmicky, in a manner more suited to kits than a base weapon on a profession without a weaponswap. Mace/shield is already a functional support set, and shortbow isn't suited to supporting mobile combat, so it's going to be hard for both sets to have a place without one choking out the other. This one isn't just bad, it potentially makes Engineer worse simply because ArenaNet is likely to try to force people to use it.

[Phyb.6704]

Strongest for solo will be celestial herald. It already was and now it gets to spam barrier.

Warrior will be very fun but only solo easier content. Most will still want a healer that can go from a range and does not need to chase kitten around. Barrier is also pref over heals since it negates damage so between scourge, scepter herald and druid I do not see staff warrior getting used much unless the heals are really really strong. 

Necro swords will buff up necro self sutain in solo play as with the healing trait from reaper for strike damage and blood banks barrier from overheal... its probably going to be an amazing "tank". May be fun to try and push some limits much like with rev. 

Theif axe was stupid op in the bata so its either going to be op still or be totally useless and nerfed into the ground. This will be the strongest or weakest. 

[Raarsi.6798]

I could definitely see the unga bunga warrior stick taking healsworn from meme to dream.

Necro swords, on the other hand, make me wonder why devs want necro players to keep sticking their own weapons into themselves...

[Dadnir.5038]

4 hours ago, Raarsi.6798 said:

I could definitely see the unga bunga warrior stick taking healsworn from meme to dream.

I'm not sure for healsworn, the best part of the staff's healing is on the burst after all. Maybe healzerker could happen (I got goosebumps just writing "healzerker").

[Remus Darkblight.1673]

7 minutes ago, Dadnir.5038 said:

I'm not sure for healsworn, the best part of the staff's healing is on the burst after all. Maybe healzerker could happen (I got goosebumps just writing "healzerker").

HERE TAKE THIS MEDICINE SO YOU FEEL BETTER RAAAAAARRGGGH!!

[Dadnir.5038]

53 minutes ago, Remus Darkblight.1673 said:

HERE TAKE THIS MEDICINE SO YOU FEEL BETTER RAAAAAARRGGGH!!

On another hand healsworn be like: "You're almost dead? Wait a minute I'm about to release my burst for alacrity, I'll heal you after..."

[JusticeRetroHunter.7684]

On 1/23/2024 at 6:39 PM, Buran.3796 said:

What I mean is that some of the new weapons will probably broken in some ways no one knowns but 3 or 6 months later nerfs could make them entirely useless and redundant.

...

That means that some of the weapons, nerfed or not, could be end not used at all not beacuse they are bad, but because your neighboor class is just a bit better.

You can literately make this complaint about anything new added into the game. I'm quite sure you (or someone else) made the same complaint when weapon mastery and relics were introduced.

So you don't want new options, you don't want permuted options that already exist... you then complain about options being useless and redundant because of nerfs...and you wonder why your nieghbor's build is better?

What do you possibly want? maybe you just want to remove the game entirely because that's the only solution to your problem.

If people weren't so focused on the numbers, and instead focused on how engaging, imaginative, fun and unique the mechanics are, then complaints like this would never see the light of day. But thats the thing : If your focus is on numbers and "optimal performance" you always compare yourself to the numbers of your neighbor and that's a self-perpetuated problem, if you both do the same things, due to lack of imaginative, fun, engaging, and unique, mechanics.

Edited January 30 by JusticeRetroHunter.7684

[Buran.3796]

11 minutes ago, JusticeRetroHunter.7684 said:

You can literately make this complaint about anything new added into the game. I'm quite sure you (or someone else) made the same complaint when weapon mastery and relics were introduced.

So you don't want new options, you don't want permuted options that already exist... you then complain about options being useless and redundant because of nerfs...and you wonder why your nieghbor's build is better?

[...]

If people weren't so focused on the numbers, and instead focused on how engaging, imaginative, fun and unique the mechanics are, then complaints like this would never see the light of day. 

  No. Some new things added to the game remained stable (better or worse) over time whereas some others were used as selling points to appeal the masses just to be throw to the garbage can once enough players bite the bait for a while. And I hate that. Some blatant examples:

* Warclaw used to have a 20% incr¡eased speed while treveling in terrain under the control of your server, used to have 3 evades, was able to finish downed enemies on attack and was able to adquire camps and sentinel points while mounted. All of that was removed, so now is a feature which I use less than 50% of the time I move in WvW, since my main way to move is mount, spent two jumps, attack, use 2-4 movement skills while dismounted, then mount again and repeat the cycle. To me Warclaw adds nothing to WvW and is useless in PvE, so developing it was a waste of time and resources.

* Engineer was my least used class, they buffed the rifle to make it a chaingun, I tried and liked it for like 2 months, then they nerfed it and my two engineers were moved again to the mule/alt parking status. Another example of overbuffing followed by overnerfing, what was the point?

* Relics killed the runes: whe went from having 99 runes of which a dozen had some use (some very niche, but still allowed some weird and fun builds) to a status in which only 2-4 of the 99 runes have any use (Dragonhunter, Trapper, maybe Monk if you run a healer, maybe Surging if you want mobility). The rest are garbage (and I spent close to 400 gold coins recrafting the runes for the 54 gear sets of my 20 characters). Another insane waste of time and effort in rune variety entirely throw out the window...

   Then, there's some changes that were positive:

* Weapon Mastery made core builds more complete and made specs more powerful. That didn't go away, and was a change for better.

* The Wizzard Vault is a better system than the old dailies, is not only more rewarding bult also allows to level up a new character 1 to 80 in 3 hours, if you want. SAnd givers much more freedon in terams of which goals you want to focus on.

* The HoT and PoF masteries were superb, whereas the ones from Icebrood Saga and EoD are garbage and SotO onmes are a hit and misss.

 

  Also, I don't care much about the numbers, I don't do instanced content or run instanced builds.

[Bunny.9834]

def not teef, def not mesmer, def not warrior. 

 

it's gon be one of the devs favorites. guardian, ele, or necro

[Gaiawolf.8261]

8 hours ago, JusticeRetroHunter.7684 said:

You can literately make this complaint about anything new added into the game. I'm quite sure you (or someone else) made the same complaint when weapon mastery and relics were introduced.

So you don't want new options, you don't want permuted options that already exist... you then complain about options being useless and redundant because of nerfs...and you wonder why your nieghbor's build is better?

What do you possibly want? maybe you just want to remove the game entirely because that's the only solution to your problem.

If people weren't so focused on the numbers, and instead focused on how engaging, imaginative, fun and unique the mechanics are, then complaints like this would never see the light of day. But thats the thing : If your focus is on numbers and "optimal performance" you always compare yourself to the numbers of your neighbor and that's a self-perpetuated problem, if you both do the same things, due to lack of imaginative, fun, engaging, and unique, mechanics.

Personally, I don't care about numbers too much, but I would appreciate some stability in the profession balance and skill/trait designs. It seem like every few months at least one of my builds gets tweaked to the point where something feels off or noticeably subpar. So I have to relearn how to play it effectively/intuitively again. Can't they just pick a design and stick to it? Or better yet, reduce disparities between meta and off-meta options (as discussed in the Balance Philosophy thread) so off meta options don't often feel like clunky trash.

[godofcows.2451]

cele. 

[JusticeRetroHunter.7684]

On 1/30/2024 at 10:22 PM, Gaiawolf.8261 said:

It seem like every few months at least one of my builds gets tweaked to the point where something feels off or noticeably subpar. So I have to relearn how to play it effectively/intuitively again. Can't they just pick a design and stick to it?

This was a topic about 2/3 months ago…that if you want to solve this problem in this way, your only solution is to remove all of your options and choices you can make, and just have Arena net give you the design they want you to play (like WoW or Super Smash Bros). There would no longer be a balance discussion (though that’s still debatable, but for simplicity we assume the ideal case) because it’s a very straightforward transaction. They give you the design and you play it as they intend. End of topic

But now, does this sound like the kind of game you want to play? Does it sound like guild wars? Not really. It’s antithetical to what guild wars is and was ever supposed to be about…which is about the creation of builds, and designing your own way to play the game.

it therefor means that what actually matters in balance is how skills are designed…how imaginative, fun, unique, and rich they are. More formally, what rich means…that those skills are undecidable in the level of their behaviors that they generate. Being undecidable, means that the mechanic of a skill is designed in such a way where the builds that are made from that mechanic lead to infinite constructs based on those builds which lead to infinite constructs based on those constructs and so on in infinitum. When all the skills are designed to be so trivial; like 300 damage 5%damage…then it’s dead on arrival for these qualities…and welcome for the next 5 years of “he does more damage than me” discussions.

So sticking to a design alone is not enough. Why should you expect that to be the case anyway…if  they design a skill or class to be fundamentally trash because it lacks any kind of imagination, interaction capability or whatever than the only fix is a change to the bad design. You can polish a turtle but it is still a turtle so ya…it’s more than just sticking to a design.

it would be nice if the game had good designers but guess what? We have pvp players playing the role of game designers as balance devs when the two professions are not the same thing. Pvp players =/= game designers.

Edited February 1 by JusticeRetroHunter.7684

[otto.5684]

Probably condi guardian with pistols in pve.

[wolfyrik.2017]

Engi shortbow will remain completely worthless except on mechanist, where due to mechanist's awful, awful design, the bow will make the golem immortal. An already obnoxious espec will become even more toxic for the game.

Guardian, thief and ranger will probably be the stars. everything else will be kind of meh.