There is too much CC in this game...it's really awful design, Necromancer/Mesmer CC access is uber bloated

[Arheundel.6451]

It's just awful awful awful design...the access to CC for necromancers and mesmers is just an over-bloated mess. These combinations of mesmer/necros rotating CC on the same target, and GW2 is a game where you can just CC the target while he's still CCed. 

Just take a look at the sort of design you allow in this game:

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?PSgAo+FYlYDAA

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?PiQAqDjCccX2baA

Godawful example of gamedesign - easy to play lower CD than actual stunbreak spammable daze/stun/interrupt gameplay and after nerfing the hell out of stability on some classes, I can't imagine how anybody in good conscience, working in this industry can even justify this level of madness, and this happens when you nerfed the kitten out of elementalist feeble attempts at CCing a target...it's just so kittening broken....and this skill like takes the cherry for godawful design https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Vile_Blast .....a 1s+ stun at 900 range on a 15s CD...this is BS

Edited March 14 by Arheundel.6451

[Shagie.7612]

so what you're saying is weaponmaster training was a mistake

[Arheundel.6451]

10 minutes ago, Shagie.7612 said:

so what you're saying is weaponmaster training was a mistake

I seriously don't give a kitten about that and got nothing to do with, I don't see other broken combinations on any other classes , it's a matter of godawful weapon design, overbloated intentionally on specific classes as kittening always! Since HoT, they have been buffing necromancer class to heaves and behind, followed by guardians, they have traits doing 10x  things at the same time with zero thinking about sensible game design

 

[Eddie.9143]

 if you're herald you use all ur energy to stun break and then get cc'd again and swap legends and stun break again, so you have a whopping 0 energy to do damage, not to mention no way of cleansing the condi damage you're definitely eating. 

[Shagie.7612]

24 minutes ago, Arheundel.6451 said:

it's a matter of godawful weapon design

Right, but those weapons, the effects they have, whether or not they have CC on them, etc, were built around them being exclusive to that elite.
Was pistol a problem on harb? Or torch on scourge? Not really.

I don't think the design of the weapons is the problem here.

[DanAlcedo.3281]

So much stun and interrupts, it almost feels like playing modern Yu-Gi-Oh. 

[AlPower.2476]

"just dodge it"

number of dodges: 2 - 3

numbers of hard cc and soft cc that warriors, necros, mesmer, etc can apply > 3 (lots of them AoE)

numbers of enemies in a common pvp match: 5

So yeah, just dodge those 5 players with their metabattle's build with tons of cc and soft cc. Block doesn't work either 'cause you know spam of unblockable things

Example of a normal combat behavior for your non typical spellbreaker, willbender, etc. (you know, you don't like the current 'meta builds' that anet forces  has for your class )

You enter in combat, u dodge chill to the bones, u press two skill, then you got ccded 'cause you hit someone with shock aura (shared by a tempest), while you're chilled/feared by a reaper's aoe,

then suddenly a DH spears you, so if you decide to block, gg 'cause you still got pulled. Some how you survived, 'cause you managed to it. You run away from the teamfight and go to far. 

Having a normal duel with a spellbreaker (more like only dodging the staff/hammer cc; 'cause you can land lots of skills, but if he lands one or two cc skills you're dead by the next infinite cc combo); but suddenly a stealthed virtuoso stuns you, throws you lots of unblockable things, and cc's u when u trying to heal yourself (all while you got all ur cds from the spellbreaker staff/hammer fight)

"Oh, then go full of stun breaks" and lost all ur damage and other options of gameplay 'cause you know Your class cannot do a sh if you're picking defensive traitline (as for modern teamfighting combat or duels)

So, if you can't spam stab like willbender/dh/tempest . spam blocks like willbender/virtuoso/warrior, spam invul  like virtuoso, all while you keep your offensive skills to fight, good luck.

Edited March 14 by AlPower.2476

[TrollingDemigod.3041]

2 hours ago, AlPower.2476 said:

So, if you can't spam stab like willbender/dh/tempest . spam blocks like willbender/virtuoso/warrior, spam invul  like virtuoso, all while you keep your offensive skills to fight, good luck.

Tempest can't really spam stab, you can deny it's application if you CC them at the beginning of overload. I agree though, bs design.

[Terrorhuz.4695]

I can't speak for necro, but for mesmer it's not a problem unless we're SPECIFICALLY talking about chronomancer; access to gravity well and CS does create a problematic amount of CC.

Source: I've been abusing this for the past 3 years, and it's more effective than it should. But in my defense, there's no way to land the super-telegraphed, clone-reliant, not-even-that-high damage from F1 unless your opponent is stunned.

[KrHome.1920]

Ranger player complaining about necro and mes (or anything) while he got the most bloated weaponset (maces) and druid does exist in pvp and wvw.

Comedy...

Edited March 14 by KrHome.1920

[Lincolnbeard.1735]

Oh look another nerf mesmer thread by Arheundel.

Colour me surprised.

[Axl.8924]

If you nerf chill yo will have to compensate necromancers, because then they will just be punching bags in pvp.

Also you will have to properly balance mesmers.Can't expect to take everything away such as blinks blocks etc and expect them to have a fair chance.

Mesmer has been busted in terms of being over nerfed for a while, and its time mes shine FINALLY my mes enthusiast run wild and hunt rangers.

Edited March 14 by Axl.8924

[Frequency.6407]

Spec with more CC complaining about CC from specs with less CC. OK.

[Axl.8924]

1 hour ago, Terrorhuz.4695 said:

I can't speak for necro, but for mesmer it's not a problem unless we're SPECIFICALLY talking about chronomancer; access to gravity well and CS does create a problematic amount of CC.

Source: I've been abusing this for the past 3 years, and it's more effective than it should. But in my defense, there's no way to land the super-telegraphed, clone-reliant, not-even-that-high damage from F1 unless your opponent is stunned.

but haven't mes been overnerfed as it is? they got hit hard with nerf bat over the years i don't wanna see mes disappear from spvp.

[Terrorhuz.4695]

56 minutes ago, Axl.8924 said:

but haven't mes been overnerfed as it is? they got hit hard with nerf bat over the years i don't wanna see mes disappear from spvp.

TBH half of the problems would be solved by giving pistol5 a proper telegraph. It's a hard stun with 1200 range, 0.5s cast time and a very subtle animation; even something as trivial as adding some particle effect on cast, so people can dodge, would do. I think a lot of aspects of mesmer were overnerfed (support mesmer is way more than meta, however), but this doesn't make toxic mechanics something desirable.

There's no real fix to that; so long as CS and gravity well exist, mesmers will be able to quickly chain a lot of CC. I don't really want to see those skills changed (individually they are perfectly fine), but I can definitely see why people are bothered.

[felincyriac.5981]

6 hours ago, AlPower.2476 said:

"just dodge it"

number of dodges: 2 - 3

numbers of hard cc and soft cc that warriors, necros, mesmer, etc can apply > 3 (lots of them AoE)

numbers of enemies in a common pvp match: 5

So yeah, just dodge those 5 players with their metabattle's build with tons of cc and soft cc. Block doesn't work either 'cause you know spam of unblockable things

Example of a normal combat behavior for your non typical spellbreaker, willbender, etc. (you know, you don't like the current 'meta builds' that anet forces  has for your class )

You enter in combat, u dodge chill to the bones, u press two skill, then you got ccded 'cause you hit someone with shock aura (shared by a tempest), while you're chilled/feared by a reaper's aoe,

then suddenly a DH spears you, so if you decide to block, gg 'cause you still got pulled. Some how you survived, 'cause you managed to it. You run away from the teamfight and go to far. 

Having a normal duel with a spellbreaker (more like only dodging the staff/hammer cc; 'cause you can land lots of skills, but if he lands one or two cc skills you're dead by the next infinite cc combo); but suddenly a stealthed virtuoso stuns you, throws you lots of unblockable things, and cc's u when u trying to heal yourself (all while you got all ur cds from the spellbreaker staff/hammer fight)

"Oh, then go full of stun breaks" and lost all ur damage and other options of gameplay 'cause you know Your class cannot do a sh if you're picking defensive traitline (as for modern teamfighting combat or duels)

So, if you can't spam stab like willbender/dh/tempest . spam blocks like willbender/virtuoso/warrior, spam invul  like virtuoso, all while you keep your offensive skills to fight, good luck.

sounds like you are doing a leeroy jenkins into the whole enemy team and then rightly getting destroyed? 

[arazoth.7290]

6 hours ago, AlPower.2476 said:

"just dodge it"

number of dodges: 2 - 3

numbers of hard cc and soft cc that warriors, necros, mesmer, etc can apply > 3 (lots of them AoE)

numbers of enemies in a common pvp match: 5

So yeah, just dodge those 5 players with their metabattle's build with tons of cc and soft cc. Block doesn't work either 'cause you know spam of unblockable things

Example of a normal combat behavior for your non typical spellbreaker, willbender, etc. (you know, you don't like the current 'meta builds' that anet forces  has for your class )

You enter in combat, u dodge chill to the bones, u press two skill, then you got ccded 'cause you hit someone with shock aura (shared by a tempest), while you're chilled/feared by a reaper's aoe,

then suddenly a DH spears you, so if you decide to block, gg 'cause you still got pulled. Some how you survived, 'cause you managed to it. You run away from the teamfight and go to far. 

Having a normal duel with a spellbreaker (more like only dodging the staff/hammer cc; 'cause you can land lots of skills, but if he lands one or two cc skills you're dead by the next infinite cc combo); but suddenly a stealthed virtuoso stuns you, throws you lots of unblockable things, and cc's u when u trying to heal yourself (all while you got all ur cds from the spellbreaker staff/hammer fight)

"Oh, then go full of stun breaks" and lost all ur damage and other options of gameplay 'cause you know Your class cannot do a sh if you're picking defensive traitline (as for modern teamfighting combat or duels)

So, if you can't spam stab like willbender/dh/tempest . spam blocks like willbender/virtuoso/warrior, spam invul  like virtuoso, all while you keep your offensive skills to fight, good luck.

What class/spec do you play that has this problem?

[Remus Darkblight.1673]

9 hours ago, Arheundel.6451 said:

I seriously don't give a kitten about that and got nothing to do with

I think the point was, on Necro at least, you're using the Pistol from Harbinger and Torch from Scourge, on a Reaper with "Chilled to the Bone!". Hence why at least part of the issue could be argued to sit with weapon master training and the balancing that comes with it.

[Dadnir.5038]

I do think that the OP do have a point as CC are annoying and ranged CC are even more annoying. That said, whether or not necromancer and mesmer are the worst offender is hard to say. Vile blast might seem strong to the OP but, objectively, it's relatively average for a CC in the game.

 

 

[Downstate.4697]

Where is brother Trevor to save you all from your sins?

[Azure The Heartless.3261]

Balance is near. I've seen complaints on almost every class within the week.

[aymnad.9023]

11 hours ago, Terrorhuz.4695 said:

I can't speak for necro, but for mesmer it's not a problem unless we're SPECIFICALLY talking about chronomancer; access to gravity well and CS does create a problematic amount of CC.

Source: I've been abusing this for the past 3 years, and it's more effective than it should. But in my defense, there's no way to land the super-telegraphed, clone-reliant, not-even-that-high damage from F1 unless your opponent is stunned.

There is also dagger mirage. I hate this ambush and every patch I wonder when it will change. Thankfully it does not seem that popular and is more tolerable than in WvW (but I really hate the daze spam).

I do agree that it does not have more cc. What gives this impression is shattered concentration especially on builds with a high cd on stab.

 

[Arheundel.6451]

13 minutes ago, aymnad.9023 said:

There is also dagger mirage. I hate this ambush and every patch I wonder when it will change. Thankfully it does not seem that popular and is more tolerable than in WvW (but I really hate the daze spam).

I do agree that it does not have more cc. What gives this impression is shattered concentration especially on builds with a high cd on stab.

 

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?PiQAg+gA

Peak game design there and there

Edited March 14 by Arheundel.6451

[remorseless.6352]

So what u say is buff teef so we can deal with the supreme necro lords?