A Proposal for a Subscription Model in Guild Wars 2

[Zebulous.2934]

On 8/23/2024 at 6:38 PM, Gendalfs.7521 said:

You see its NCsoft after all and I will never understand why This game is not p2w. 

Because Gw2 saw that there is a market where regular people with low paying jobs are tired of being destroyed by wealthy people who don't even have to use skill to win. 
The thing is: The people with low income jobs far outnumber the wealthy "whales."  If a wealthy player loses interest in a p2w game then that game's income takes a major hit.  On the other hand: if a few low income players take a break from Gw2 then not much revenue is lost, there are still thousands of those players active.  Gw2 has a much more stable source of income than p2w games.

Wealthy players have trouble returning to p2w games, they have to buy a great deal of power just to catch up to the whales who never left.  Whales are far more likely to wait for the next new p2w game than to try and catch up in a game they had already become bored with once before.  Gw2 doesn't sell combat advantage: the average player can regain their muscle memory of the controls, tweak or replace their old build, and be just as powerful as the day they left.

 

[kharmin.7683]

No.  For the many reasons stated in this and the many many other threads on this topic that you could have found using the forums search feature.

[Bladestrom.6425]

On 8/23/2024 at 10:25 PM, Ashen.2907 said:

I've spent somewhere in the neighborhood of $80k on GW2 over the years and across multiple accounts because I like the existing business model. I would quit the game instantly if a subscription were added. 

duplicate.

Edited August 25 by Bladestrom.6425

[Bladestrom.6425]

On 8/23/2024 at 10:25 PM, Ashen.2907 said:

I've spent somewhere in the neighborhood of $80k on GW2 over the years and across multiple accounts because I like the existing business model. I would quit the game instantly if a subscription were added. 

£555 a month every single month for 12 years eh, interesting.

More seriously though, you demonstrate the benefits of GW2 perfectly.  Those that want to contribute can do, while others contribute what they can afford.  GW2 have got it right, purely for 1 reason - its the best value for money AAA mmporpg in the market that doesn't use cynical practices to locks people into the game via FOMO. 

In saying that, now that housing is here, ESO does have an elegant solution in that area that could work with subs, and GW2 could build on that, for example:

while subbed (£9 a month)

- Greater number of items allowed in the homestead.  When you unsub you can keep the amount used but you cant add to it if you are over the max.

- Access to all expansions

- A Lion key a month for a bit of fun

- 10 xp boosters, a revive orb and primer.

- Access to a special unique travel hub that cant be bought in gem store

Edited August 25 by Bladestrom.6425

[Obnoxa.6702]

4 hours ago, Bladestrom.6425 said:

In saying that, now that housing is here, ESO does have an elegant solution in that area that could work with subs, and GW2 could build on that, for example:

while subbed (£9 a month)

- Greater number of items allowed in the homestead.  When you unsub you can keep the amount used but you cant add to it if you are over the max.

- Access to all expansions

- A Lion key a month for a bit of fun

- 10 xp boosters, a revive orb and primer.

- Access to a special unique travel hub that cant be bought in gem store

Once again I reiterate:

Quote

There tends to be a penalty for not subbing, if the pay model even includes a permanent f2p version; whether or not the intention is there in the beginning implementation, it always veers off in the direction in the end.

 

[Parasite.5389]

4 hours ago, Bladestrom.6425 said:

A Lion key a month for a bit of fun

you already get 4-5 keys a month for free

[Gop.8713]

I appreciate that OP spent the time to present a thought out proposal rather than just throw an idea up there and see if it sticks, but even if only a small fraction of the ppls who claim they would quit over a sub fee actually did so it would be a huge upheaval to the player base. And then anet would be in the position of trying to attract even more new players to a twelve year old game, except this time without one of the game's biggest selling points . . .

OTOH I still believe this is what the new release schedule is designed to do. Instead of selling us a forty dollar expac every three years or so, they're selling us a twenty-five dollar expac every year. If they want to move more towards a subscription model, I think they would do so by making these smaller releases more frequent or more expensive rather than introducing an explicit subscription fee . . .

[Sobx.1758]

On 8/23/2024 at 10:51 PM, Drew The Geek.9613 said:

The introduction of Secrets of the Obscure has been a step in the right direction, offering legendary components more accessible to players. However, the current system still favors those willing to spend money, which, while understandable, creates a barrier for players like me who prefer to earn their way.

What did I just read? You prefer to earn you gear, but making it easier was "a step in the right direction"? Also if you're talking about soto legendary armor, that's where the legendary armor opened "favoring those willing to spend money".
That mention about "favoring those willing to spend" is also a bit weird considering you're proposing... monthly subscription model.

On 8/23/2024 at 10:51 PM, Drew The Geek.9613 said:

Here’s what I propose for a $15.00/month subscription:

1. **All Storage Unlocked for All Characters**: This would immediately solve the storage limitations many players face and make the game more enjoyable.

2. **Unlimited Character Slots**: Players could experiment with different builds and professions without worrying about the cost of additional slots.

3. **$5.00 Worth of Gems Per Month**: A small but meaningful bonus that allows players to purchase in-game items without needing to spend extra money.

4. **Access to All Expansion Content**: This would ensure that all players can enjoy the full scope of what Guild Wars 2 has to offer, regardless of their financial situation.

**What Happens if the Subscription Expires?**

Spend $15/month and gradually buy what you're listing here. Or, if the bit about "prefering to earn your way" is indeed factual, play the game and earn it.

Edited August 25 by Sobx.1758

[devzero.4093]

Look to WoW if you want to see a subscription based MMO in all it's glory. You not only get to pay a monthly subscription, but you also retain the privilege of purchasing store-only items from the in-game WoW shop.

Hard pass from me, but I generally don't like that feeling of "I must play or else I'm wasting my money".

[Crono.4197]

Guild Wars 2 is the same as Guild Wars 1, both games were buy to play. Having a subscription would go against the roots and promises of the franchise.

As for me, if it would go sub I would quit. No sub is a big part of why I'm playing this franchise. I have always hated subscription services, it's a way to take more money from the user than it's worth it, it's up there with other predatory businesses. You get hooked up to a game or a streaming service and then you either lose your money because you don't play/watch enough shows or you're constantly obsessed that "oh no I must play the game/watch shows as much as possible or else I won't get my money's worth".

So, no thanks. I think it would do more bad than good.

[Linken.6345]

1 hour ago, Parasite.5389 said:

you already get 4-5 keys a month for free

If you do the level 10 story each week then yes you do.

[Super Hayes.6890]

They aren't looking for a subscription. They want to play the game for a few months with all access at a discount then move on. If they really wanted to support our game they just would. GW2 will never have a subscription. Please move along.

[IAmNotMatthew.1058]

1 hour ago, devzero.4093 said:

Look to WoW if you want to see a subscription based MMO in all it's glory. You not only get to pay a monthly subscription, but you also retain the privilege of purchasing store-only items from the in-game WoW shop.

Hard pass from me, but I generally don't like that feeling of "I must play or else I'm wasting my money".

Don't forget buying a 40€ expansion every 2 years that will be included in the sub fee when the next comes out while also losing almost every reason to even play it!

[devzero.4093]

20 minutes ago, IAmNotMatthew.1058 said:

Don't forget buying a 40€ expansion every 2 years that will be included in the sub fee when the next comes out while also losing almost every reason to even play it!

Oh yeah, the expansion cost is quite high if you consider that you're already paying a sub every month. This also reminds me why I always quit at the end of a WoW expansion. Last one I played was BfA, it was a terrible expansion overall but open world pvp started getting fun towards the end with the crazy overpowered corruptions. Then the new expansion is released and all your gear is useless and there's a new system in place to replace the old one. I guess you either love or hate the vertical gear grind.

[Parasite.5389]

1 hour ago, Linken.6345 said:

If you do the level 10 story each week then yes you do.

thats what i was implying, yes

[Jianyu.7065]

On 8/23/2024 at 5:25 PM, Ashen.2907 said:

I've spent somewhere in the neighborhood of $80k on GW2 over the years and across multiple accounts because I like the existing business model. I would quit the game instantly if a subscription were added. 

That's over $500.00 a month every month for 12 years. Not that I am doubting you but, it does beg the question....on what? I ask because I am genuinely interested because it even seems like a really high amount even if you have multiple accounts. 

[Jianyu.7065]

I didnt read much of the original post because the suggestion alone is asking a lot after almost 20 years of the GW franchise operating without a sub. 

I believe this game has established itself based on its current model and that is one of its attracting qualities. I think all this does is form a huge disconnect that could possibly sink the game. My wife and I would stop playing. 

[Nilkemia.8507]

Long sigh.

No. Take this "proposal" back to whatever alternate reality you dragged it from.

[Ashantara.8731]

On 8/23/2024 at 11:25 PM, Ashen.2907 said:

I've spent somewhere in the neighborhood of $80k on GW2 over the years and across multiple accounts

Where is a 😱 reaction emoji when you need one?

[Drew The Geek.9613]

Just to clear up a few things.

1. Subscriptions would be in addition to what already exists, not a replacement

2. When the subscription ends, so do the extra perks.  So all the storage and character slots would go away.

3. You could pay a smaller fee during the subscription period to unlock those items permanently.

Nothing would change for any players, it would only be in addition to what is already offered.  I was also using the pricing as a base line but it could be adjusted for better balancing between how much a player pays and how much Anet actually makes.

So even if a subscription was an option, I was not suggesting that any features get removed or changed for anyone that isn't a subscriber. It's only as another option.

 

[Nilkemia.8507]

16 minutes ago, Drew The Geek.9613 said:

Just to clear up a few things.

1. Subscriptions would be in addition to what already exists, not a replacement

2. When the subscription ends, so do the extra perks.  So all the storage and character slots would go away.

3. You could pay a smaller fee during the subscription period to unlock those items permanently.

Nothing would change for any players, it would only be in addition to what is already offered.  I was also using the pricing as a base line but it could be adjusted for better balancing between how much a player pays and how much Anet actually makes.

So even if a subscription was an option, I was not suggesting that any features get removed or changed for anyone that isn't a subscriber. It's only as another option.

 

1 : Don't care, don't want it. Optional subscriptions lead to the developer/publisher trying as much as they can get away with to incentivize it if not outright inconveniencing players that don't have it.

2 : And what happens if you have more than your base storage allows? What if you have more characters than the base slots allow? They get locked? Deleted? I wouldn't risk using the extra stuff anyways then.

3 : So pay more money on top of the money already being spent...or just buy the slots and storage outright without the subscription. I can even convert gold to gems to not waste money on it, so...yeah, not seeing any advantage for your "proposal".

Having seen what happens in games that do have optional subscriptions, I see no reason to believe things wouldn't change. They'd want to incentivize that crap as much as they think they could get away with. I haven't forgotten when they tried to remove the custom gem exchange, and reverted the change after severe backlash. Your proposal offers no benefit that cannot be already obtained, and opens the gate to worse ideas and practices.

Take the dead horse back into whatever ditch you found it in.

[Poormany.4507]

1 hour ago, Drew The Geek.9613 said:

Just to clear up a few things.

1. Subscriptions would be in addition to what already exists, not a replacement

2. When the subscription ends, so do the extra perks.  So all the storage and character slots would go away.

3. You could pay a smaller fee during the subscription period to unlock those items permanently.

Nothing would change for any players, it would only be in addition to what is already offered.  I was also using the pricing as a base line but it could be adjusted for better balancing between how much a player pays and how much Anet actually makes.

So even if a subscription was an option, I was not suggesting that any features get removed or changed for anyone that isn't a subscriber. It's only as another option.

1. You and I both know that would not end up what happens. If the gemstore's still there and a sub is introduced, they would be forced to put in more and more and increasingly p2w items/skills/weapons/armor/stats more than just convenience or fashion items behind the sub, taking away things players already have. That's how sub games work.

2. As Nilkemia.8507 pointed out, what happens to the storage and character slots that run out? I've seen many sub games literally hold those hostage and prevent you from accessing items/storage on non-sub characters until you resub - forcing you to either resub or quit the game (I easily chose the latter because that's just purely exploitative/unethical).

3. So still holding your storage/characters hostage...?

About it just being an addition, again, that's not how sub MMOs work and once they see too few players subbing or sub players complaining about getting too little for their buck, they will always eventually begin to take stuff away from non-sub players or make the game impossibly frustrating to play for non-sub players.

I've been playing since GW1 and would quit the moment a sub is introduced.

Edited August 27 by Poormany.4507

[Tsakhi.8124]

1 hour ago, Drew The Geek.9613 said:

Just to clear up a few things.

1. Subscriptions would be in addition to what already exists, not a replacement

No. Still does not want. This doesn't hold the appeal that you think.

1 hour ago, Drew The Geek.9613 said:

2. When the subscription ends, so do the extra perks.  So all the storage and character slots would go away.

No. No, that's just pointless and you're punishing people unnecessarily. It's like here's the carrot and stick shoved straight up your butt cavity. 

1 hour ago, Drew The Geek.9613 said:

3. You could pay a smaller fee during the subscription period to unlock those items permanently.

Nothing would change for any players, it would only be in addition to what is already offered.  I was also using the pricing as a base line but it could be adjusted for better balancing between how much a player pays and how much Anet actually makes.

So even if a subscription was an option, I was not suggesting that any features get removed or changed for anyone that isn't a subscriber. It's only as another option.

Still not making much of an argument, if anything, any argument you may have had is now foot-shaped Swiss cheese. Sheesh.

1 hour ago, Drew The Geek.9613 said:

 

 

[Zebulous.2934]

Because what @Drew The Geek.9613 has suggested does not line up with reality, neither the incentives nor the results, I have to agree with @mungozen.2379.

On 8/23/2024 at 5:09 PM, mungozen.2379 said:

What you are suggesting would allow someone to pay for 1 month, and not pay for all the features that are already monetized by Anet, and then bail after a month or two at a fraction of the cost. 

I speculate that this is Drew's actual goal.  They want to binge the entire game, to have a condensed concentrated Gw2 experience, and once they have "won" they will leave and never return.  Why would Drew care about the long-term health of the game at that point? 

I could be wrong of course.  Perhaps Drew just prefers to "rent" rather than "own" virtual stuff.

[kharmin.7683]

5 hours ago, Drew The Geek.9613 said:

Just to clear up a few things.

1. Subscriptions would be in addition to what already exists, not a replacement

2. When the subscription ends, so do the extra perks.  So all the storage and character slots would go away.

3. You could pay a smaller fee during the subscription period to unlock those items permanently.

Nothing would change for any players, it would only be in addition to what is already offered.  I was also using the pricing as a base line but it could be adjusted for better balancing between how much a player pays and how much Anet actually makes.

So even if a subscription was an option, I was not suggesting that any features get removed or changed for anyone that isn't a subscriber. It's only as another option.

 

You can pretty much do all of this now by paying a set amount each month and purchasing gems.  There's nothing stopping you from doing that.  And, as a bonus, what you purchase won't go away if you stop purchasing.