A New PvP Mode is Coming to Guild Wars 2--We Need Your Help Developing It!

[Rubi Bayer.8493]

Back in June we announced that we would be developing a new PvP mode alongside the community. Today we're giving you the first look at the Push game mode–a 5v5 match where the main objective is clear: push the objective to the enemy base while keeping them from pushing it to yours!

While we have the prototype of a map and mechanics implemented, one of our main goals is to develop this new game mode with you. From September 10-23, we will be hosting a beta event where you’ll be able to play the Push game mode and give us your feedback, which will be crucial to its development! 

Mark your calendars for September 10, read over today's overview, and get ready to share your thoughts on the Push game mode!

[Guy.9207]

Probably too early to ask, but could this open up the possibility of having 3 or more teams in the same match?

[shadow.6174]

I know since it's early beta it will be full of placeholders and the like (because not worth working on those yet, I know), but if I can suggest a thing it would be interesting to have those gray blocks with a temp texture instead being dull gray. Maybe like a "under construction" sign or even the blocky 16 bits textures from SAB, then it unconsciously pass the message of "temp stuff, don't mind" instead of "something is broken or didn't load properly here" 😝
(although the objective thing being an item from SAB hints at that too and as a dev I find it amusing to see placeholders lol)

[MuscleBobBuffPants.1406]

"Our goal for the Push prototype is to get early feedback on the mechanics of the mode to see if it’s something that players want before committing to the iteration and polish that will really bring it to life."

"We will be gathering feedback to help gauge how the Push mode fits not only our goals, but also player experience and expectation. We’ve created a thread in this subforum for feedback from this beta event. After you’ve had a chance to play, we’d like to hear what you think—what you enjoyed, what you think could be improved, and what you liked or disliked about the beta."

That kind of philosophy is good to hear. Whether it turns out to be true is another thing.

[Azure The Heartless.3261]

*Drags metal chair over to the feedback area*

Alright.  I'll play your game.

[Saiyan.1704]

I'm all for this but...

What's stopping 2 Chrono's + two bunker warriors from contesting the happy cloud thingy indefinitely?

[youle.5824]

7 minutes ago, Saiyan.1704 said:

I'm all for this but...

What's stopping 2 Chrono's + two bunker warriors from contesting the happy cloud thingy indefinitely?

This game mode will actually put in the spotlight the bunker builds in need of nerfs so they should be balanced faster.

 

Edit: Forgot to mention, super hyped about this , ty Anet.

Edited September 5 by youle.5824

[Azure The Heartless.3261]

Just now, Saiyan.1704 said:

I'm all for this but...

What's stopping 2 Chrono's + two bunker warriors from contesting the happy cloud thingy indefinitely?

💀 we want this, let people expose their unkillable nonsense

[calva.2914]

kittenin stoked!!! Can’t wait. Also I guess this means 2v2 is canceled this time around if I’m reading that right? 😞

[Avatar.3568]

It looks like aram from league, could be brainless fun but idk if new people having an easier time if 10 player throw their aoes on one node 

[Luthan.5236]

It is great to see this happening early - not having to wait forever until a first test starts (like with WvW). I was not present at older betas regarding stronghold ... and only remember the weekly WvW things (before it went into permanent beta) as well as the few days for weapon testing when new weapons got released (+ elite specs for EoD).

So the two weeks duration here is a huge surprise for me. As well that it is ranked - acting like a mini season. (This should be kept up regularly - bringing it after each major season.)

The mode itself does not feel tooo interesting. Also not that bad though. I thought it would be worse. I had kind of the idea of "destroying the enemy base" with pushing towards them (creating spawn positions in between and moving them towards the enemy while bypassing them to go directly for their base would be possible) - from some other game where bigger team sizes existed.

The kind of the "push" mode with 5 vs. 5 seems ab it like a small move into that direction. Just with 5 vs 5. and probably no bypassing things and just ... pushing forward one step (then the next ... until you win or the enemy pushes back ... with a timer). Can encourage group play a bit more - I guess it will mostly end up with 5 vs. 5 actually fighting all at one position?

We'll see about that. Planning to play since I have finished most JW release 1 content stuff  ... no normal PvP to start big for the league reward chests (until the mini/beta is over) ... and the other weekly stuff running there should easily be finished while still playing a few matches here with the new mode.

[Spiral.3724]

Super Adventure Box PvP?

Conquest was "too complicated".

I know PvP is full of whiny babies, but really???

[Parasite.5389]

Perhaps we should consider modifying Keg-brawl and Southsun Survival to work in PvP

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

11 minutes ago, Parasite.5389 said:

Perhaps we should consider modifying Keg-brawl and Southsun Survival to work in PvP

They already use portions of the PvP interface, it would not be hard to finish it.

[Goosekilla.2796]

1 hour ago, Avatar.3568 said:

It looks like aram from league, could be brainless fun but idk if new people having an easier time if 10 player throw their aoes on one node 

I wondered this too. Looking at the zoomed out screen shot at the end though, it appears there are areas on each side where presumably some sort of secondary mechanic will happen. Hopefully those mechanics will be important/engaging/frequent enough to prevent this from just being a permanent 5v5 on mid.

Edit: my hope is this mechanic is related to respawning full down teammates or something like that, which would help train people to not overcommit to a lost point and provides a more comeback-oriented (not snowbally) mechanic. It would also prevent feeding (people running 1 at a time into 1v5s off spawn and immediately dying), which is super common for newer players when there's a big team fight environment

Edited September 5 by Goosekilla.2796

[DoomNexus.5324]

Oh no... I was hyped about hearing getting a new pvp mode but escort - or "push" - modes are boring af. Really disappointed now ngl.

Why not remake GW1 pvp modes like fort aspenwood or at least make 2v2/3v3 selectable for unranked and/or make them regular ATs.
There are soooo many low to medium effort options yet you decide to copy-paste the least fun pvp mode from FF14 (that probably takes several years to release - if we even ever get it because GW2 will probably go into maintenance when GW3 comes out) instead of at least recycling your own IPs content (GW1 modes). I really don't get it...

[Marxx.5021]

Although it’s still early in development, this game mode is already becoming a favorite within our team, which is a good sign!

Maybe you should focus a litle more on fixing balancing issues in todays sPvP.

 

[Experimentee.7612]

I look forward to testing the new game mode. However, I'm already quite confused about the context for it and what it is trying to achieve. 

Is conquest really that complex to get into? I'm one of the stupidest people alive. I started playing PvP about 9 months ago (albeit I played alot of WvW before that). All I did was watch a couple of YouTube guides from Vallun. It was more than enough to get started. Since then, just by playing some conquest games and gaining experience, I've become far more familiar with the intricacies of conquest (and I still have much more to learn). It was, overall, a fun experience and if I can do it, I'm sure that anyone can. Some things that hampered my experience, though, were how many games were one.sided, how often AFK players completely ruined the game for all the other players, and the level of toxicity I saw in chat. Those are the real problems that need addressing in PvP, if you ask me.

In addition, I think Anet can improve the new player experience by not relying on external guides like Vallun's to teach players the basics of conquest. Anet probably should bring that ingame. Perhaps that can be in the form of an ingame interactive tutorial that explains slowly and clearly how it works. For that you could simply simulate a conquest game with a real player and NPCs in an instance and explain, step-by-step, what is happening and the kinds of things the player needs to think about.  

If I go along and accept that conquest is difficult to get into, then I don't think Push is a good stepping stone for getting players into conquest. From what has been written about Push already, Anet state that "multiple objectives" and "precise map awareness" are the things that players find challenging. Yet Push revolves around a single objective. Where is the opportunity here for players to get familiar with the idea of "multiple objectives" and "precise map awareness"? All you are doing is protecting players from the areas they supposedly find challenging. This will not help them on their journey to conquest. If you want to help players to get familiar with "multiple objectives" and "precise map awareness", you need something completely different. Maybe you have two nodes and 3vs3 instead of three nodes and 5vs5? Maybe you simplify the combat so players focus only on the objectives and rotations and not have to worry so much about builds and the combat itself - perhaps every player becomes a Choya and has one "push" skill that launches an opponent out of a node, and leave everything else (besides the unique map objectives) the same as standard conquest? 

I welcome another PvP game mode. One that is not intended as a stepping stone to conquest. One that also does not replace conquest either. Instead, one that alternates with conquest each ranked season. To help people into conquest, I think all you need is an ingame interactive tutorial and to fix things like matchmaking, afkers and toxicity. But if Anet insist that new players struggle with "multiple objective" and "precise map awareness", please redesign Push to actually help players to learn those things.

Edited September 5 by Experimentee.7612

[TheNurgle.4825]

58 minutes ago, Parasite.5389 said:

Perhaps we should consider modifying Keg-brawl and Southsun Survival to work in PvP

This is underrated comment. Also it would let me finish Southsun Survival achievements. Keg-Brawl can stay as it is with locked team size like 3vs3 or 5vs5. Southsun Survival needs little rework to be it faster and map little smaller and keep it free for all if possible.

[arazoth.7290]

2 hours ago, Azure The Heartless.3261 said:

*Drags metal chair over to the feedback area*

Alright.  I'll play your game.

*oils it*

[Sereath.1428]

Thank you for being adventurous and trying new things.

However, I strongly advise the team to stop thinking of this mode as an "introduction to Conquest". Otherwise it is doomed to fail. You can quote me months - a year later.
A lot of people simply don't care about that game mode and its style of play, where the emphasis isn't even on the gameplay, but rather on community made up roles and knowing where to go and where to be at all times during the game. That's just way too exhausting.

The main problem still being that only having one supported game mode for an entire MMO is asinine.
Or sure, think and do whatever, just don't expect much growth for your 15 player base if you don't want to let Conquest go.

Edited September 5 by Sereath.1428

[Luthan.5236]

Imo the regular activities should get a currency - maybe something like the beetle races (racing tokens). Then a vendor to buy stuff or exchange it into other currency. That could get more attention to them. Maybe dailies - to limit the currency (awarding it as chests for participation). But they do not seem to do a good job at advertising that old stuff. In the vault it got removed cause people did not want it. (And it was imbalanced - certain activities were less promoted - others happened to be more on rotation when the vault task was active.)

Festival of the four Winds has the Aspect Arena limited to there ... and it does not even have achievements. (While Snowball stuff in Wintersday has.)

---

For the mentiond GW1 modes - never played them: They seem interesting. But I wonder if they are so easy to implement in GW2. With the other combat system here and them still having to make a map and people crying about balancing and stuff.

[TexZero.7910]

From the initial image. You gotta stop letting the WvW intern place capture cirlces for objectives.
That one is most certainly not centered which is a long standing issue in WvW as well.

This has been my contribution.

[Sunshine.5014]

Hi Anet, I hope you read this post.

For this mode to be successful, you need these 2:

A) Allow swapping Build/Equipment Templates after death.

This is taken from the play book of Overwatch, which offered a similar Push / Defend mode. Unlike regular Conquest, this new Push mode has only one battle ground. If your team happens to pick the wrong builds at the start, the game is over. There is no recovery. You will keep running into the same 5v5 battle and lose again and again due to Build Composition. It will lead to frustration and more AFK as soon as they die during the first battle.

Instead, imagine allowing the player to change Build/Equipment Templates after death. After the first battle, your team wipe, and you realize you have no healer, you can change. If you realize the other team has too much Condi pressure, and you don't have enough cleanse, you can change. If you need more damage to overwhelm the enemy bunkers, you can change. This works out really well for Overwatch, and I'd even go as far as to say it contributes positively to Overwatch's initial success. Imagine when you die and can't change Overwatch heroes; it would be frustrating and AFK-inducing.

Remember, the other team can also change builds (after their deaths). That leads to more exciting matches, with more back and forth, leading to more viewership.

Other minor benefits:

• More revenue if people buy more Templates
• Incentive for people to communicate during the matches (builds / strategy) because you can actually change the match outcome even after a losing battle

B) New unique boon when the "Cloud" stops moving

With this new Push mode, it's almost guaranteed that a lot of people will try Bunker builds. The "Cloud" will not move in a stalemate. How would you break the stalemate?

New map wide boon: Brutality

• Gain one stack per second if the Cloud is not moving
• Lose one stack per second if the Cloud is moving
• Max 100 stack -- everyone on the map has the same number of stack
• Increase out going strike /condition damage by 1% per stack

This boon will allow Bunkers to delay the Cloud, but it will get increasingly harder to stall. The output damage during the battle increases over time during the stalemate, and the DPS would be able to overcome Bunkers. It doesn't invalidate Bunkers, since they can still slow down the progress while their team is regrouping. Managing how much Brutality stack you allow the map to reach would become an interesting mechanics that the best teams would employ to win. It would also be entertaining to watch.

Together with the ability to change build after deaths above, the match becomes very exciting. Would people alternate between Bunker and DPS when Brutality is low / high? Would teams have specialized composition based on location of the Cloud and Brutality level? What else would happen on the meta game level? If done right, this Push mode could be the most successful PvP mode you have. 

Thank you @Rubi Bayer.8493 and the team for reading. I'm excited to see how Push will land!

Edited September 5 by Sunshine.5014

[shoop.3829]

This is a cool idea, and I'm excited to try it! However, I feel like the biggest barrier to entry in PvP right now isn't the game mode or map mechanics, it's the overwhelming dominance of optimized builds and more experienced players. I used to be a casual but consistent PvP player (usually ranked high silver/low gold), but I haven't been playing much lately. I picked it back up for PvP Rush week and barely got the full rewards because it was just so frustrating! Sometimes I felt like my teammates and I were just being farmed by the other team, we couldn't even get to the capture points without getting 1-shot. I'm worried this imbalance won't be addressed for the Push mode, and more casual players will spend so much time dying or respawning that we won't get to enjoy the new mechanics much at all.