Rune and Sigil Changes - 13 November 2018 [Merged]

[ReaverKane.7598]

I just love how this supposed "quality of life" change became a chance for Arena Net to rack up on gem sales.Sure it wasn't a guaranteed chance, but with rare kits you'd get the sigils and runes more often than not, now you get junk that will out you up for a few hours crafting sigils and runes.Pretty sure that there's already someone that bought all the useful runes and sigils of the TP just to overprice them later.Awesome move Arena Net.A lot of people keep saying they don't like crafting, and want to avoid it, Arena Net just adds more and more forced crafting into the game.Not even going to discuss individual sigil and rune changes, since i already read enough to not want to play the game before i got to that.When the game's patch notes has almost as much dedicated to the gem store as to the rest of the changes, you know where priorities lie. And it stopped being on providing a quality game a long time ago.

Also @Gaile Gray.6029 just so you don't accuse me of just being negative, here's what you SHOULD have done:On Mystic Salvage kit, and one or two new kits, you only get rune materials when it would fail to get the rune in the past.So basically:Original code for salvage;if salvage fails > new code (can even use the code for the lower tier salvage kits on fail).Or in alternative, add NPC purchasable Upgrade extractors, but like you did in the past with salvage kits, it only has a 60% chance to extract the item intact. If it fails, you get materials.

EDIT: I actually read through the runes, and i don't dislike the changes, it makes sense what they did, standardizing the effects, so that there's no weird effects on 3 runes, and completing the stat counts on sets allows for more rune sets to be viable (so you don't have to chose between the Condition damage and having the jagged horror in combat. Also moving the effects to the full set bonus allows them to use more often 100% effective bonuses, instead of 60% when struck, or 50% while in combat). For the most part it was a pretty good work. Too bad they had to sneak in the extra work when changing stats, and filling their pockets a bit more with only allowing us to remove upgrades from Black Lion items. That for me ruined their good work completely.

[LucianDK.8615]

or the others could just accept a herald rev among them again for Facet of Nature.

[Turk.5460]

@TwiceDead.1963 said:

@Turk.5460 said:

@TwiceDead.1963 said:

@Turk.5460 said:Upon entering combat = if

still in combat

and cooldown is up, automatically applied again?

Should be easy enough to test, shouldnt it?A bit hard right now with the constant DC's, but I hear a hotfix is in the works.

Not for another 6 hours 15 minutes for me

I tested Superior Runes of the Pack

"Grants Swiftness, Fury and Might for 10 seconds on a 20 sec CD upon entering combat."

The boons did not re-apply after the initial engagement, even after 20+ seconds. Curiously though, they do apply once you exit combat.I tested this running around a wyvern enemy for a minute or more just letting it attack me.

That's a shame. Did you try attacking it after 20+ seconds? Maybe it has to be re-triggered by hitting the enemy.@Gaile Gray.6029 If these do not re-apply while still in combat, may we please get clarification in the patch notes or elsewhere? Many encounters last longer than the cooldown of these runes.

[DeanBB.4268]

What about items not on the lists? I didn't see Rune of the Mad King listed, for example. No changes?

[Tyncale.1629]

Looks like there is more variety now: I always disliked how there are like 80 different Runes and Sigils and only a few of them had demand on the market, some of which were very overpriced compared to the rest(which had no value at all). I am very curious to see how this will pan out on the Trading Market. I am a bit sad that my sigil of Bursting has 1% less Condi damage but I guess this was one of those Sigils that had it coming (looking at the price).

I may actually experiment a bit now with different sets.

[phs.6089]

@Naxos.2503 said:

@Ebonfire.8270 said:The combination of Nightmare and Trapper have been a staple for condi classes, but Nightmare has been changed from general condi duration to Fear duration. Trapper has been improved, but still, the change to Nightmare, given the means to attain it, is kind of uncool.

Awww man ! I spent a while getting the tokens to kit my Renegade with nightmare runes ! Just a Week ago

Same, they are useless now :cry: and my sweet, sweet durability runes...ripOther then that thank you for update everything else looks good.

[notebene.3190]

@Gaile Gray.6029 said:

@"Lolivia.3219" said:"A majority of runes and sigils are also changing to create greater variety and versatility and to promote more active gameplay."

Anet employee 1: lets change every 60% to 100% and all 10% damage to x-species to 7%to x-species + 3% overall and just call it a dayAnet employee 2: sold, lets make tyria great againwhat a joke

So, you don't like the changes. I get that, and you're entitled to your opinion. But "what a joke" and a snarky pretend conversation don't really make for meaningful feedback. Don't like it? Explain why. Have a better idea? let's hear it.

Regarding your later response thread, I also really appreciated the before/after tables. I don't remember most of what my 9 characters have to that level of detail, and usually just shrug and carry on until a moa in Queensdale face rolls me and I have to figure out why!

Regarding this specifically, I can't speak for who you were responding to, but I like the offer and encouragement to offer a better idea. I'm looking at like the flanking changes to some of the sigils, two of which I was using on my Renegade's short bow, and it left me kinda bummed. I can see why they might be useful for a Ranger (Hunter? I can never remember what that base class is called in this game, every game has something different), as they have a pet that can get attention and the chance to flank (when fighting alone) is much better, and moving at that. My Renegade doesn't have that (unless the Legendary Demons do, and I just don't know it?), so my Purity and Ice sigils (the latter providing a chance to chill, which then works with the Abyssal Chill trait nicely) in my short bow might not work so well any more when I'm alone. Granted, when I'm alone my short bow is mostly for pulling, and I find myself swapping to my mace/axe pretty quick. Any sustained short bow is 'usually' when I'm in some sort of zerg or small group situation in the open world anyways...so maybe my concern is marginal at best?

To offer a 'better idea', I suppose my suggestion would have been to have both? Use the new rules for flanking , but keep the original rules when not, perhaps reducing the chance on hit(crit)? Having said that, it is kinda hard to offer a better idea without understanding the reason behind the change to begin with? Was it an over powered thing? Was it an effort to make maybe some other sigils seem more interesting, and if so, which ones? Maybe I'm not getting what they are hoping I might try instead?

Is there any sort of dev blog that talks about the reasoning behind them, and I just missed it? Doesn't have to be one by one, but it seems like most of them can be 'grouped', and were all changed for similar reasons (like the 10% to 7x3).

Speaking of that one, while I don't use them, I can't understand why the change on those is bad at all. I mean, don't you still get your 10% on 'the thing' that you got it for before? Now you get 3% on 'everything else', right? /shrug

Update: Looking at your table some more, things for me to try, maybe they were thinking Cleansing or Generosity for my situation...as a replacement for Purity? Hmm, not bad. :)

[Atriark.8905]

Why change Rune of the Flock and get rid of the bird striking? You took out what made it interesting and made it generic and boring. On top of that, you let it keep it's name. Like what? There's nothing flock related to just healing power and vitality.

[Caedmon.6798]

@Turk.5460 said:

@TwiceDead.1963 said:

@Turk.5460 said:

@TwiceDead.1963 said:

@Turk.5460 said:Upon entering combat = if

still in combat

and cooldown is up, automatically applied again?

Should be easy enough to test, shouldnt it?A bit hard right now with the constant DC's, but I hear a hotfix is in the works.

Not for another 6 hours 15 minutes for me

I tested Superior Runes of the Pack

"Grants Swiftness, Fury and Might for 10 seconds on a 20 sec CD upon entering combat."

The boons did not re-apply after the initial engagement, even after 20+ seconds. Curiously though, they do apply once you exit combat.I tested this running around a wyvern enemy for a minute or more just letting it attack me.

That's a shame. Did you try attacking it after 20+ seconds? Maybe it has to be re-triggered by hitting the enemy.@Gaile Gray.6029 If these do not re-apply while still in combat, may we please get clarification in the patch notes or elsewhere? Many encounters last longer than the cooldown of these runes.

Nope its not reapplying,tested myself aswell.Get the boons when u enter combat,waited 20 - 30 sec,made an attack and you get no boons.Pretty damn useless.

[Diak Atoli.2085]

@Ebonfire.8270 said:The combination of Nightmare and Trapper have been a staple for condi classes, but Nightmare has been changed from general condi duration to Fear duration. Trapper has been improved, but still, the change to Nightmare, given the means to attain it, is kind of uncool.

At least for my condition build, Runes of the Afflicted is a much better option now.

[Hanakocz.5697]

Those changes are not "just 60% to 100%" but "getting rid of RNG" . Thus I see them as good.

[Morte de Angelis.7986]

@LucianDK.8615 said:or the others could just accept a herald rev among them again for Facet of Nature.

As I said before, why have more forced slots when you could have less. In true anet fashion, they nerfed everything around the Chrono and nerfing everything rather then just nerfing Chrono. Back to Herald + Chrono! Except this time you need 2 of them

[Morte de Angelis.7986]

@LucianDK.8615 said:

@Morte de Angelis.7986 said:

@LucianDK.8615 said:Have you forgotten about Facet of Nature from revenants? Herald revs fell out of meta because classes could cap out on boon duration of their own. Which never should have happened.

Oh good, we go from 4 locked slots to 6 locked slots. So good right?I saw the Renegade was Meta on Dhumm according to SC :shrug:

Considering the big sale point of facet of nature is boon duration increase for buddies, it renders it completely useless if people can boon duration cap on their own.

That is true, but I'd rather they just nerf Chrono rather then nerfing boon duration in general. Now why would you run FB + Rev when you'd have to use the Herald for the Boon duration anyway with a Chrono :shrug:

[perilisk.1874]

@TwiceDead.1963 said:

@Turk.5460 said:

@TwiceDead.1963 said:

@Turk.5460 said:Upon entering combat = if

still in combat

and cooldown is up, automatically applied again?

Should be easy enough to test, shouldnt it?A bit hard right now with the constant DC's, but I hear a hotfix is in the works.

Not for another 6 hours 15 minutes for me

I tested Superior Runes of the Pack

"Grants Swiftness, Fury and Might for 10 seconds on a 20 sec CD upon entering combat."

The boons did not re-apply after the initial engagement, even after 20+ seconds. Curiously though, they do apply once you exit combat.I tested this running around a wyvern enemy for a minute or more just letting it attack me.

... isn't that what the tooltip says? Entering combat is what causes it to trigger, but it can't trigger more than once every 20s even if you were to enter and exit combat more than once in that timeframe. Things that continue to be active in combat, like the summons, are described as "while in combat", in contrast.

[ThiBash.5634]

Personally, I preferred Rune of Radiance's 'aura on heal' effect. The extended aura duration wasn't that important imho. Rune of Air has that effect now, but the swiftness boost isn't that useful to a healing tempest.

[Turk.5460]

@perilisk.1874 said:

@TwiceDead.1963 said:

@Turk.5460 said:

@TwiceDead.1963 said:

@Turk.5460 said:Upon entering combat = if

still in combat

and cooldown is up, automatically applied again?

Should be easy enough to test, shouldnt it?A bit hard right now with the constant DC's, but I hear a hotfix is in the works.

Not for another 6 hours 15 minutes for me

I tested Superior Runes of the Pack

"Grants Swiftness, Fury and Might for 10 seconds on a 20 sec CD upon entering combat."

The boons did not re-apply after the initial engagement, even after 20+ seconds. Curiously though, they do apply once you exit combat.I tested this running around a wyvern enemy for a minute or more just letting it attack me.

... isn't that what the tooltip says? Entering combat is what causes it to trigger, but it can't trigger more than once every 20s even if you were to enter and exit combat more than once in that timeframe. Things that continue to be active in combat, like the summons, are described as "while in combat", in contrast.

Yes, but I was hoping for it to be in error. Since those "upon entering combat" bonuses become increasingly less helpful the longer the encounter continues.

[notebene.3190]

@perilisk.1874 said:

@TwiceDead.1963 said:

@Turk.5460 said:

@TwiceDead.1963 said:

@Turk.5460 said:Upon entering combat = if

still in combat

and cooldown is up, automatically applied again?

Should be easy enough to test, shouldnt it?A bit hard right now with the constant DC's, but I hear a hotfix is in the works.

Not for another 6 hours 15 minutes for me

I tested Superior Runes of the Pack

"Grants Swiftness, Fury and Might for 10 seconds on a 20 sec CD upon entering combat."

The boons did not re-apply after the initial engagement, even after 20+ seconds. Curiously though, they do apply once you exit combat.I tested this running around a wyvern enemy for a minute or more just letting it attack me.

... isn't that what the tooltip says? Entering combat is what causes it to trigger, but it can't trigger more than once every 20s even if you were to enter and exit combat more than once in that timeframe. Things that continue to be active in combat, like the summons, are described as "while in combat", in contrast.

I think you are right, and I think I don't like the change on that set very much either. I get they might feel 'on hit' is over powered, but we need some other way to re-apply them outside the cool down period while still in combat. Either use the 'while in combat' flag, or let them be re-applied when you do something like dodge, or ... something.

[Lolivia.3219]

anyways, litte response, been fun i guess

[Lolivia.3219]

@Gaile Gray.6029 said:

@"Lolivia.3219" said:"A majority of runes and sigils are also changing to create greater variety and versatility and to promote more active gameplay."

Anet employee 1: lets change every 60% to 100% and all 10% damage to x-species to 7%to x-species + 3% overall and just call it a dayAnet employee 2: sold, lets make tyria great againwhat a joke

So, you don't like the changes. I get that, and you're entitled to your opinion. But "what a joke" and a snarky pretend conversation don't really make for meaningful feedback. Don't like it? Explain why. Have a better idea? let's hear it.

if only id get a response after i explained why though

[Hesacon.8735]

@phs.6089 said:

@Naxos.2503 said:

@Ebonfire.8270 said:The combination of Nightmare and Trapper have been a staple for condi classes, but Nightmare has been changed from general condi duration to Fear duration. Trapper has been improved, but still, the change to Nightmare, given the means to attain it, is kind of uncool.

Awww man ! I spent a while getting the tokens to kit my Renegade with nightmare runes ! Just a Week ago

Same, they are useless now :cry: and my sweet, sweet durability runes...ripOther then that thank you for update everything else looks good.

Durability runes got buffed, it's just other runes got brought up to its level. It was always one of the best runes in the game, it's just now we have alternatives.

[Turk.5460]

@Lolivia.3219 said:anyways, litte response, been fun i guess

Your original post was useless and immature, but luckily there are thoughtful posters who turned your thread into a more informative feedback thread.

[Aigleborgne.2981]

I like some of the changes (related to useless runes & sigils), they might have some uses now.However, it's a big loss on game diversity as more things are now generalized. We lost fleshreaver, vampirism and all those little 4th or 6th rune effects.Sure, the new effects are more powerful but also more boring because more common.

I would have improve currents effects of underused things to bring them on a same level of meta ones. It is more likely a harder task but more rewarding.Let's see vampirism runes:Vampirism
(1): +25 Power(2): 15% chance when struck to cause your next attack to steal life. (Cooldown: 25s)(3): +50 Power(4): After using your healing skill, your next attack skill steals health. (Cooldown: 10s)(5): +100 Power(6): When struck below 25% health, you steal health from nearby foes. (Cooldown: 40s)

It was fun and only used for that because a lot less effective than say Scholar.I would have improve it to something like this:Vampirism
(1): +25 Power(2): 30% chance when struck to cause your next attack to steal life. (Cooldown: 10s)(3): +50 Power(4): After using your healing skill, your next attack skill steals health. (Cooldown: 10s)(5): +100 Power(6): When struck below 25% health, you steal health from nearby foes. (Cooldown: 20s)

Are my changes OP ? Maybe, I don't know, but at least, it keeps the same purpose.Additionally, we lost many effects (2th or 4th bonus), traded for some attribute bonus. It is BORING as hell... special effects are more fun, brings a lot of diversity, provided those effects are powerful enough.

[TheGrimm.5624]

@Victory.2879 said:More damage boosts- just what we needed... /sarcasm.

A lot of the defensive minded ones got boosts as well. I thought some of my toons were already tanky. New numbers inc.

[Lolivia.3219]

@Turk.5460 said:

@Lolivia.3219 said:anyways, litte response, been fun i guess

Your original post was useless and immature, but luckily there are thoughtful posters who turned your thread into a more informative feedback thread.

yeah except i provided answer to why i didnt like it, yet the only reply i get to that, is none, or you randomly saying something about my first post, which is, just as useless. thanks

[Atriark.8905]

I like most of what you guys are doing. You're giving attention to sigils and runes that could use it. You're cutting out some less optimal sigils and runes, but you're also getting rid of some of the most interesting ones and fun to use ones. You gave Torment the duration sigil it was lacking, but in the process you killed the ability to make a fleshreaver your ally. You removed a rune set's ability to have a bird come down and blind your foes cause they dared attack you, making it a bland healing and vitality rune set. It's a little confusing when you keep some fun ones, but other ones you give the axe.