Ban ArcDPS and any third party program

[Emberstone.2904]

@Squirrel.6318 said:

@Emberstone.2904 said:

@Squirrel.6318 said:That kitten is ridiculous, as if the community wasn't elitist enough. Haven't been in a dungeon or raid or fractal in like 3 years because of how elitist they are.

I can't remember the last dungeon/fractal I ran where anyone said anything, and I didn't even get full ascended gear, a DPS meter, and mastery of my rotation until recently. Even before all of this, no one really ever said anything.

You're assuming a lot about the majority of the community. DPS meters aren't a problem, only the people behind them. Three or four years ago, we didn't even have DPS meters, yet some people were still elitist jerks as you describe.

Kinda makes it sound like meters were never the issue, huh?

Let me draw another parallel for you, which I made in a previous post you might not have seen. Your health bar is a meter that tracks your current health. Is it also toxic/elitist for other people to be able to see your health, just as they can see your damage? Is it wrong of them to want you to not stand in fire and dodge other avoidable mechanics so the dungeon/raid can be completed? Should we remove health bars along with DPS meters?

By the logic of people who hate DPS meters, every ounce of information that can be tracked and critiqued should be removed. At the end of that crusade, what will be left of the game?

(Lastly, there are enrage timers in raids. It is necessary in those cases to, on the fly, figure out what's going on if you're hitting enrage.)

I played GW1 and the dungeons there were not so strict, I mean yeah people wanted certain classes and builds but I would say half didn't care. I loved it. I was going through Urgoz Warren, The Deep, did the Nightfall end-game dungeons, like once a week. But in GW2 everyone is like "what build are you using, ping your outfit, get on discord..." hell I don't know this stuff, I just want to play the game. The discord thing I hate so much, it's not fun for me, power to those who like it, but it kills immersion for me. Yeah people used it in GW1, but I would say a good half of the community didn't, most parties I went in dungeons and missions didn't use it.

I also played GW1 (religiously, might I add), and I seem to recall people wanting meta builds and whatnot even more often than here in GW2 due to the game having a strict holy trinity (and with damage types being a thing; didn't want Fire Elementalists vs. fiery mobs). This was especially true in HM content. If I went into The Deep with my 130 Dervish farmer, I would've been kicked almost immediately. Build absolutely mattered in GW1.

There was an immense freedom to create builds in GW1, but each one had it's place. I was expected to know where my profession fit in for the content at hand and formulate an appropriate build.

In GW2 5 mans (barring maybe T4 fractals), you can pretty much do whatever you want because of the lack of a holy trinity outside of raids. Even before I got proper gear and a good rotation, I rarely got any complaints since I'd say I'm reasonably adept at not-dying.

It sounds to be like you got a string of bad eggs in a row, because the game you describe is very different from my and my friends' experience with it. If I get drunk and die over and over, yeah I'm going to end up with an unhappy party and get kicked, but as long as you're staying alive and doing your thing I've never seen people get mad.

I've never even seen people mention DPS meters in dungeons/fractals either.

I'm not saying your experience is incorrect or invalid, but rather that you should give it a chance again and see that it really isn't this way instead of letting a handful of jerks ruin one of the most fun portions of the game for you.

Removing DPS meters will never stop those people from being jerks.

[Amaranthe.3578]

How? its quite simple really. Stop playing with pugs, it is not an enjoyable experienced. Get into a guild and/or meet friends in game with your interests/views and play with them.Your suggestion makes zero sense. I know its crazy nowadays to ask a person to be social in a game thats totally build around that but thats just life I guess.

[kharmin.7683]

@Squirrel.6318 said:Having DPS meters just makes things worse for casual players I think. I think that's why a lot of us just avoid dungeons. It shouldn't be like that. But fair enough for serious players.That's kind of how I feel about it, too.

[Illconceived Was Na.9781]

@kharmin.7683 said:

@"Squirrel.6318" said:Having DPS meters just makes things worse for casual players I think. I think that's why a lot of us just avoid dungeons. It shouldn't be like that. But fair enough for serious players.That's kind of how I feel about it, too.

This always sort of mystifies me. The people who discriminate against "casual players" (whatever that might mean) do so with or without meters. Without meters, they use arbitrary tools and anyone might be kicked regardless of their actual contribution. With meters, the criteria can be seen by anyone who cares to.

That makes it easier now for people to have the sort of group they want: if you want top DPS, you can ask for it and double-check. If you want people who don't care, you can ask for that, too and you can double-check that too (although not quite so easily).

If you want to run dungeons "for casual players," start your own LFG and be clear in the advert and when you welcome people into the party that this group will be taking their time.

[Celsith.2753]

@"Squirrel.6318" said:but ArenaNet should have like a more noob or casual friendly dungeon option for guys who just want to play the game, like "casual dungeon match making." I love >dungeons in games, but in GW2, no thanks.

They do. You can put 'casual/noob friendly' in your group description.

[RaidsAreEasyAF.8652]

There are people joining Dungeon LFG that say "Level 80 EXP" while being level 50 with 100AP.Most of the time the party doesnt even care.

The last time i saw someone getting kicked for low DPS in raids was an ele doing 7k on gorseval. What do you think would have happend without a DPS Meter? Do you think the ele would have been kicked? No, of course not. Ele big deeps. The commander would have kicked the scourge that was doing okay while letting the person thats handycapping 9 other people stay and leech the boss.

[Astralporing.1957]

@"RaidsAreEasyAF.8652" said:There are people joining Dungeon LFG that say "Level 80 EXP" while being level 50 with 100AP.Most of the time the party doesnt even care.

The last time i saw someone getting kicked for low DPS in raids was an ele doing 7k on gorseval. What do you think would have happend without a DPS Meter? Do you think the ele would have been kicked? No, of course not. Ele big deeps. The commander would have kicked the scourge that was doing okay while letting the person thats handycapping 9 other people stay and leech the boss.Without dps meters the scourge would not be kicked, because they wouldn't be allowed to join in the first place. I do remember the first gorses, when meters weren't officially allowed yet and weren't as popular as now, and it was "all dps run tempest now". You might have gotten away as DH in less demanding groups. Necro and all its derivatives would get instakick before the fight even started.

[Linken.6345]

@Shikaru.7618 said:

@yann.1946 said:

@"Deepcuts.9740" said:Another reason why banning ArcDPS will help no one, specially those asking for it.Yesterday during A W1-E4 run, I noticed the other Druid had very low might up-time.At the end of W2, I asked in private: "what kind of gear are you using because you have a very low might duration". No answer.Start of W3, I got the answer:

http://i.imgur.com/Rcufi7G.jpg

It seems what you feel and think you can do counts more than hard data. The problem is when what you think does not compute with actual data.Who needs ArcDPS when you have a brain.

Shouldn't 1 druid be more then enough to cap the might?

What was that frost for 1 dps about tho seems a weird comment?

My guess is maybe having it in a condi based fight like sh or twins. So calling out theres only 1 power dps?

Well since the person said it was w1-w4 it was neither of your guesses mate.

[RaidsAreEasyAF.8652]

@"Astralporing.1957" said:Without dps meters the scourge would not be kicked, because they wouldn't be allowed to join in the first place.

Yeah, or that. Both arent great option though.

I do remember the first gorses, when meters weren't officially allowed yet and weren't as popular as now, and it was "all dps run tempest now". You might have gotten >away as DH in less demanding groups. Necro and all its derivatives would get instakick before the fight even started.

I also remember Condi Warrior or gtfo on gorse.

[Linken.6345]

@Shikaru.7618 said:

@yann.1946 said:

@"Deepcuts.9740" said:Another reason why banning ArcDPS will help no one, specially those asking for it.Yesterday during A W1-E4 run, I noticed the other Druid had very low might up-time.At the end of W2, I asked in private: "what kind of gear are you using because you have a very low might duration". No answer.Start of W3, I got the answer:

http://i.imgur.com/Rcufi7G.jpg

It seems what you feel and think you can do counts more than hard data. The problem is when what you think does not compute with actual data.Who needs ArcDPS when you have a brain.

Shouldn't 1 druid be more then enough to cap the might?

What was that frost for 1 dps about tho seems a weird comment?

My guess is maybe having it in a condi based fight like sh or twins. So calling out theres only 1 power dps?

Well since the person said it was w1-w4 it was neither of your guesses mate.EditWould say matthias since the corespondance was after they started w3 wasent it?

[Astralporing.1957]

@RaidsAreEasyAF.8652 said:

@"Astralporing.1957" said:Without dps meters the scourge would not be kicked, because they wouldn't be allowed to join in the first place.

Yeah, or that. Both arent great option though.

I do remember the first gorses, when meters weren't officially allowed yet and weren't as popular as now, and it was "all dps run tempest now". You might have gotten >away as DH in less demanding groups. Necro and all its derivatives would get instakick before the fight even started.

I also remember Condi Warrior or gtfo on gorse.Oh yeah, the burnzerker... forgot about that one.

@Linken.6345 said:

@Shikaru.7618 said:My guess is maybe having it in a condi based fight like sh or twins. So calling out theres only 1 power dps?

Well since the person said it was w1-w4 it was neither of your guesses mate.EditWould say matthias since the corespondance was after they started w3 wasent it?Matthias would be my guess as well.

[yann.1946]

@Linken.6345 said:

@Shikaru.7618 said:

@yann.1946 said:

@"Deepcuts.9740" said:Another reason why banning ArcDPS will help no one, specially those asking for it.Yesterday during A W1-E4 run, I noticed the other Druid had very low might up-time.At the end of W2, I asked in private: "what kind of gear are you using because you have a very low might duration". No answer.Start of W3, I got the answer:

http://i.imgur.com/Rcufi7G.jpg

It seems what you feel and think you can do counts more than hard data. The problem is when what you think does not compute with actual data.Who needs ArcDPS when you have a brain.

Shouldn't 1 druid be more then enough to cap the might?

What was that frost for 1 dps about tho seems a weird comment?

My guess is maybe having it in a condi based fight like sh or twins. So calling out theres only 1 power dps?

Well since the person said it was w1-w4 it was neither of your guesses mate.EditWould say matthias since the corespondance was after they started w3 wasent it?

But even on Matthias it would be worth it. As long as you run two druids ofcoutse

[rabenpriester.7129]

@kharmin.7683 said:

@Squirrel.6318 said:Having DPS meters just makes things worse for casual players I think. I think that's why a lot of us just avoid dungeons. It shouldn't be like that. But fair enough for serious players.That's kind of how I feel about it, too.

Your anxiety is the reason why we should ban dps meters, got it.

[Tsakhi.8124]

I had commented on a thread similar to this one, but I feel as though I need to say it again: DPS meters are tools, they shouldn't be used as a pre-requisite. The problem is not with the tool, but with the person using it. I don't think it's fair to ban something because certain people are being...jerks. That being said: People are people, sadly enough, and if there's a way to judge others, they'll find it. With or without a tool.

[kharmin.7683]

@rabenpriester.7129 said:

@kharmin.7683 said:

@Squirrel.6318 said:Having DPS meters just makes things worse for casual players I think. I think that's why a lot of us just avoid dungeons. It shouldn't be like that. But fair enough for serious players.That's kind of how I feel about it, too.

Your anxiety is the reason why we should ban dps meters, got it.

You misunderstand me. I have never advocated for either side of the issue. I only sympathize with how some have been adversely affected by the tool.

[Astralporing.1957]

@kharmin.7683 said:

@rabenpriester.7129 said:

@kharmin.7683 said:

@Squirrel.6318 said:Having DPS meters just makes things worse for casual players I think. I think that's why a lot of us just avoid dungeons. It shouldn't be like that. But fair enough for serious players.That's kind of how I feel about it, too.

Your anxiety is the reason why we should ban dps meters, got it.

You misunderstand me. I have never advocated for either side of the issue. I only sympathize with how some have been adversely affected by the tool.The only people adversely affected by the tool are those that got depressed after seeing how low their dps actually was. All the other cases were about people adversely affected by contact with players with a playing style incompatible with their own. The only way to avoid the later issue is to heavily segregate playerbase, which is both a very bad idea (in my opinion anyway), and something exactly opposite of what people arguing about ban on meters want.

[Rod.6581]

It's amazing how people think you can play fractals higher levels with exotic gear. I just can't believe what I'm reading here.

[TokenG.7863]

Apparently this is the kind of result you get when a game company gives players the opportunity of build choices. Maybe if everyone was locked into one trinity template 80% of this arguement would be avoided. Data mined from the game should only be used to figure out why a group cannot overcome an obstacle. Past that it is just nitpicking and whining. If you are one of the type who want to rush through the game because you just want the reward, then join a group of like minded people who want to do just that. If you LFG, you are pugging, and when you pug, you get whatever is available because they're in the same boat you're in, can't find enough people who want to do what they want to do. So you make amends so that you both get something out of it.

[kharmin.7683]

@TokenG.7863 said:Apparently this is the kind of result you get when a game company gives players the opportunity of build choices. Maybe if everyone was locked into one trinity template 80% of this arguement would be avoided. Data mined from the game should only be used to figure out why a group cannot overcome an obstacle. Past that it is just nitpicking and whining. If you are one of the type who want to rush through the game because you just want the reward, then join a group of like minded people who want to do just that. If you LFG, you are pugging, and when you pug, you get whatever is available because they're in the same boat you're in, can't find enough people who want to do what they want to do. So you make amends so that you both get something out of it.

What's this? Common sense? That's crazy talk!

[IndigoSundown.5419]

@"TokenG.7863" said:If you are one of the type who want to rush through the game because you just want the reward, then join a group of like minded people who want to do just that. If you LFG, you are pugging, and when you pug, you get whatever is available because they're in the same boat you're in, can't find enough people who want to do what they want to do. So you make amends so that you both get something out of it.

This would be true if the LFG was an auto-grouping feature. As it is, the LFG offers players the opportunity to state the focus of the group. This works for both sides -- applying to those who post things like "Need Banner Slave, EXP only" as well as "All welcome." If they're willing to wait, why should they cater to the desires of players who don't have their play preferences and who aren't willing to form their own group and wait?

[TokenG.7863]

@IndigoSundown.5419 said:

@"TokenG.7863" said:If you are one of the type who want to rush through the game because you just want the reward, then join a group of like minded people who want to do just that. If you LFG, you are pugging, and when you pug, you get whatever is available because they're in the same boat you're in, can't find enough people who want to do what they want to do. So you make amends so that you both get something out of it.

This would be true if the LFG was an auto-grouping feature. As it is, the LFG offers players the opportunity to state the focus of the group. This works for both sides -- applying to those who post things like "Need Banner Slave, EXP only" as well as "All welcome." If they're willing to wait, why should they cater to the desires of players who don't have their play preferences and who aren't willing to form their own group and wait?

They can wait if they want. No problem in that. But they should also expect a lot less than they would from a static group of friends who do it together routinely. But in the amount of time they might sit in lfg queue waiting, they probably could have already finished what they're waiting for. It's like cutting off your nose to spite your face. I guess what surprises me the most is that the people who queue demanding exp only players are looking for a fast run. But they don't care to just sit there in queue to wait for that. It's a net loss in productivity if that's what their gripe is about. When they've waited long enough they'll take anybody and then want to gripe that those they took in don't want to play their way.

[Kal Spiro.9745]

Ban all Add-ons is ludicrous. Not all add-ons are the problem. I just picked up the Mount Wheel add-on for quality of life mount changing. I have no interest in giving this up just because some people are being kicked out by asshats in dungeons. They're unrelated.

Additionally, I main a Ranger in Clerics. I know it's not optimal, and I do intend to change it, but the stat sets that I want don't exist yet, so I haven't. As such I know I don't do enough damage to compete normally, but I do my best under the circumstances. I've never been kicked from a dungeon or a fractal group. I've never have anyone complain about me in a dungeon or fractal group. I don't doubt it happens, but I've never experienced it, and if anyone should I probably should.

[maddoctor.2738]

@"TokenG.7863" said:I guess what surprises me the most is that the people who queue demanding exp only players are looking for a fast run.

That's not surprising given how bad players usually cause even further delays than just waiting for a competent player. Plus "waiting" an extra player gives you the opportunity to do whatever you want while waiting, including filtering your damn inventory that is always full of clutter. Further, the delays aren't high to begin with, most groups fill very quickly

[Ashen.2907]

@TokenG.7863 said:

@IndigoSundown.5419 said:

@TokenG.7863 said:If you are one of the type who want to rush through the game because you just want the reward, then join a group of like minded people who want to do just that. If you LFG, you are pugging, and when you pug, you get whatever is available because they're in the same boat you're in, can't find enough people who want to do what they want to do. So you make amends so that you both get something out of it.

This would be true if the LFG was an auto-grouping feature. As it is, the LFG offers players the opportunity to state the focus of the group. This works for both sides -- applying to those who post things like "Need Banner Slave, EXP only" as well as "All welcome." If they're willing to wait, why should they cater to the desires of players who don't have their play preferences and who aren't willing to form their own group and wait?

They can wait if they want. No problem in that. But they should also expect a lot less than they would from a static group of friends who do it together routinely. But in the amount of time they might sit in lfg queue waiting, they probably could have already finished what they're waiting for. It's like cutting off your nose to spite your face. I guess what surprises me the most is that the people who queue demanding exp only players are looking for a fast run. But they don't care to just sit there in queue to wait for that. It's a net loss in productivity if that's what their gripe is about. When they've waited long enough they'll take anybody and then want to gripe that those they took in don't want to play their way.

They are also looking for a skilled, high performance run. Something they can get by waiting, but which they are unlikely to get by playing with people whose sense of fun differs from their own.

[TokenG.7863]

Some day people might wake up and realize there's more to life than min/maxing and how fast you get there. At some point you notice that the journey is what counts, and how many relationships you pass up by being close minded. Until you get to that point, enjoy the exclusivity that will eventually dwindle.That goes for gaming as well.