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Let's talk Blackgate


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I will say this before anything -- let's keep this discussion to a settled level and come in with an open mind.

The question: What makes Blackgate, as a server, so strong?

What prompted this question is Blackgate's capability of always getting the highest KDR in their matchup, and being the best, if not second-best in victory points (PPT). Even before the legendary Jade Quarry alliance's creation, and straight after its dissolution, they continued to show strength as a server.

The reason I want to open this discussion up is, what can us, as other servers or as players in general, learn from BG to better ourselves?

Here are maybe some factors to think of to get this discussion started:

  • Blackgate-dedicated guilds --> Now I'm sorry if I didn't mention a guild here, but I want to mention that the guilds on Blackgate--scarce as they are--are super strong. [XVX] and [RISE] in particular are full of tempered, playmaking players. In this day and age where active guilds are slowly disappearing and even in the olden days, Blackgate's guilds have shown exquisite fighting strength and have gained a reputation because of it.
  • Experienced players --> Back in seasons, out of the three places you could receive--First, second, or third--Blackgate would be the one server constantly receiving gold medals for first. What causes this to happen? Many factors. But we all know that it is the overall practice of a server's players that lead them to victory. The players/pugs/guilds of Blackgate are really good, both in scouting and self-defense. Now one may complain they just run one-shot soul beasts and other overpowered builds. Whether or not it may be true, they still show consistency with a top KDR per matchup. It doesn't matter what class you are playing or what class you play against, in the end, it will all be a part of the KDR board.
  • Cookie --> Yes, Cookie. The famed pugmander of Blackgate whose tales were told from even before 2014. This guy is a legend, basically. But in all seriousness, "The Call of Cookie" can instantly unite the server. The pugs will come on meta classes, REAL reasonable support and damage classes. Why? It is because they have hope in this guy. And this hope is not in vain. He has produced results from many days ago, and many videos are dedicated to him and his glory. He is not a perfect commander, and no one is, in all honesty. His rallies will get 70+, and 70 in comms. Complain as others may, this is still commendable. He gives good blob vs. blob fights and only a few have potential chances of beating him ([wavy]/[DED] blob, [PMA]/[VR] blob, and the mysteriously overwhelming Jade Quarry alliance). The standard is high to be beating Cookie and as large as you have to be to fight him, you cannot ignore the fact that he is actually a good commander.
  • Timezone coverage is all around --> pretty self-explanatory.
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You forgot to mention our Pugs are versatile (most can and will switch if asked to needed classes), they know what calls need to be made and which ones won't matter as for moving the commanders around. Also, the roamers and havoc will move to defend so if the commander is doing something (fighting or holding a T3) and can't respond as fast we do have people there.

Learn to filter Team/Map Calls accordingly.

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u forgot they blob ppl down during SEA time to get high KDR, their KDR is always crap during reset. Plus now BG is pretty much open every day they just out # ppl every time zone. Also there is a diff between Guild Pugmander and a pugmander, when Cookie is driving he gets all the guild players on him not just ur regular thief ranger solo roamer pugs. So u are pretty much fighting a 70 players guild grp not just 70 pugs.

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Blackgate has always been far more organised or tryhard (depending on who you ask) than other servers. So they attract guilds with a similar mindset. Guilds who are organised and have more time to sink into WvW. I used to be on jade quarry many years ago and only came back recently. I know Jade quarry was only able to compete with BG because we had an immense pug population.

I assume the BG of today still has this mindset, as does its players. Whilst many pugs who occupied other servers have quit, the more diehard WvW players of blackgate would tend to have a longer half life than their casual competitors. Which is proabably why they still remain stacked today. Whilst servers like my own have gone by the wayside as mounts and lack of WvW attention in terms of content and balance updates have driven people from the game.

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The obvious theme in all of your points is the players. How many of them have experienced WvW on other servers? How many of them have fought a 70+ pug group instead of been in one? How many of them dealt with poor coverage?

BG players go through the same problems and snowball issues everyone else goes through when they 1) are getting beat in fights (by Maguuma), 2) don't have the best coverage in some TZ, 3) pug tags are taking breaks. We seen it a few times. They just don't experience it as often due to having the most team-oriented players/best coverage.

I once had an account on BG. It was kind of boring TBH watching 30 players afk in EBG keep waiting for a tag or waiting for the opponent to attack something.

Edit: Also I'd love to see the server link experiment run of linking DB to BG to see how that mix of players affects the outcomes.

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Hmm...my question to the OP:

Are the mechanics behind creating our WvW match-ups fair & balanced?

If this was a true "King of the Hill" game mode...would BG always come out on top of everybody else?

Currently...it's more of a 3 way fight...with a "Gorilla in the room" situation.

Discussing anything else wouldn't matter...imho

Yours truly,Diku

Credibility requires critical insight & time.

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@"Diku.2546" said:Hmm...my question to the OP:

Are the mechanics behind creating our WvW match-ups fair & balanced?

If this was a true "King of the Hill"...would BG always be truly king?

Discussing anything else wouldn't matter...imho

Yours truly,Diku

Credibility requires critical insight & time.

yes. now that there are semi population caps. doesn't mean that every commander/pug is the same skill level. the number of no lifers may vary, but thats a separate matter. did you know as a BG citizen, 1 hr before reset, they are required to goto church every Friday and praise the Cookie's Dolyak?

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@Limodriver.4106fair point.

However, all groups / servers have their strong time zones and others don't.

They do indeed have strong players with 70+ in comms, which is commendable indeed. Blob up or not, it's still a win.

It takes work to bring servers together and get them to play, like you mentioned, as one big guild group. Only few servers nowadays can do an @here or @all call and manage to beat BG at it.

Uniting servers and the bond is all part of the effort.

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@Limodriver.4106 said:u forgot they blob ppl down during SEA time to get high KDR, their KDR is always kitten during reset. Plus now BG is pretty much open every day they just out # ppl every time zone. Also there is a diff between Guild Pugmander and a pugmander, when Cookie is driving he gets all the guild players on him not just ur regular thief ranger solo roamer pugs. So u are pretty much fighting a 70 players guild grp not just 70 pugs.

You may want to check your activity facts....

SEA and EU are the closest to a 1.0 KDR. NA and OCX have a significant advantage for BG in KDR.

So I think the whole ‘blob people down in SEA’ is another false narrative.

Plus, I am not sure what you mean by ‘BG is open all day’ ? Some clarification would be great.

Have you looked at a cookie blob? The way you talk, you would think it’s all RISE and XvX...

If he calls out, people go to him. And people trust him.

He is not alone in that though.

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Unfounded speculation, but why have so many other alliances failed? Poor organization, no plans, and egos meaning everyone actually secretly hates each other but the bandwagon is too stronk. The overall competence makes them go far but the leeches pile on and one faction gets the notion that they "carry" it all. Eventually, setbacks instantly down the whole crew. As it turns out, huge communities of MMO hardcore gamers are often dysfunctional.

Maybe they're not (as) dysfunctional?

But hey, it's only natural. You're mostly only interacting with invisible strangers-- if they serve you no use, then they're probably nothing to you anyways.

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aside from buying guilds for coverage, out blobbing everyone with their endless bandwagon effect, and pin sniping when they're out gunned and other frowned upon activities?

they've always had a mean hammer train. most other pugs on other servers aren't team players, they're selfish leeches who don't push cuz they're playing their special custom build that's mostly useless for zerg v zerg.

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BG has dedicated scouts, they take a keep from each enemy on each borderland and holds them for as long as possible.They respond to defense calls and back cap quickly.They have the most coverage in all time zones for most of the game history.A lot of servers don't have 3, 2, or even 1 of those things anymore, a lot of people don't care to these days.

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@XenesisII.1540 said:BG has dedicated scouts, they take a keep from each enemy on each borderland and holds them for as long as possible.They respond to defense calls and back cap quickly.They have the most coverage in all time zones for most of the game history.A lot of servers don't have 3, 2, or even 1 of those things anymore, a lot of people don't care to these days.

Having players that care about winning is pretty rare these days. I wish it wasn't, but at the same time, I can't fault anyone for not caring. There's no reason to want to win and a lot of times it's not possible anyway due to lacking coverage/population.

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They know to make you fight to save a point so that you can't maneuver while panicking under time constraint. Knowing that's going to be the setting of most fights, they can focus their builds into fast extended reach lockdowns and nukes. Their really tight guild groups don't even have to be all that big since they're mostly being surgical and can answer your better squads and players. Even if you can get close to the numbers and you have some of your better groups and players in there, you'll likely end up throwing away some bodies to try to save the point.

Open field or no time constraint lets your people get creative or feel things out, but BG still has good players and groups like any other server and I think their compositions are really good at doing a lot in seconds. They just have that history since launch that's going to continue to be a lure.

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You could change the topic title to be more about "how do servers have a high KDR and continue to push PPT". BG does a great job of this in a few ways. Scouts. Scouts that people listen to nd the BG groups respond. A lot of servers have found that people don't come when call outs are made. There are a variety of reasons for this. If a group wipes that same group will wait in spawn until more people come. They'll come out and continue pushing your group until you stop coming back. Also you are right that they'll pad the numbers a bit during off hours. That isn't unusual. If you look up highest level of activity on the leaderboard it isn't BG at the top. Not even close. KDR is a very skewed number taken out of context.

The big piece that is missing here is that in a three tiered matchup what you'd hope would happen is that the 2nd and 3rd place finishers focus down the 1st place server. Which doesn't happen very often and certainly not over the course of a week. My shorter response is this: Smart play. Consistent, focused attention to a goal. A final example? Based on the scores I highly doubt that BG spreads out over all four maps on a reset night. I was on BG for awhile myself which is where I met that other Bliss person. :) Honestly? I moved away because I was bored. I tend to spend my time on outnumbered servers playing off hours. I like a challenge.

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