Your DPS is Trash

[maddoctor.2738]

These are the types of players you;ll meet while pugging (in my experience)

1) The "toxic elitist". These guys join any group, they expect the group to run the encounter the way they know because they think their way is better. They are very proud of their dps numbers and will post them around constantly. Fortunately, when the group doesn't adjust to their whims, they will leave on their own, sometimes even mid-run. Good riddance.

2) The "toxic casual". On the other end of the spectrum we get these guys that join experienced groups even though they have none. Usually they stay completely silent and never say a thing, even when you try to ask them directly if they know the mechanics or not (after a wipe for example). They are the guys that expect to be carried and those more likely to try and fake their KP/LI using chat codes. Also the more likely to come on the forums to complain about toxicity.

3) The "talker". Occasionally we'll get someone that belongs to any of the above categories, but they make up for the toxicity by being very talkative. In the elitist case they will politely present why their way is better, or even provide insights how the team can improve based on their, admittedly higher, experience. In the casual case they might say it upfront that they are not very experienced in the fight but are willing to learn. They will also accept responsibility in case they cause a wipe. This goes a long way from the silent "carry me please" types and they more often than not get guild invites.

4) The "just what you need". When the groups asks for something and gets exactly what they want. Doesn't matter if they talk or not, what matters is that they fit perfectly the slot required, know the mechanics and are not trying to hijack the group. Sometimes they will give some input about dps or how it could've been done better, but usually after the fight and in a polite way.

[maddoctor.2738]

@Metasynaptic.1093 said:I think there are some attitude issues at play here. Pugging in GW2 is like having a soccer team that is short 3 players, handing 3 shirts to spectators and expect to get Messi, Ronaldo and Kane to shoot for you.

Only you don't hand the shirts to random spectators, you ask for players of a very specific experience level to join. It's like having a soccer team that is short 3 players and plays at the Champion's League level and your management sends you some amateurs that learned recently how to kick the ball. Not a very good idea. Soccer teams fill their rosters with players fitting for their tier, Messi won't play for an amateur tier team, and an amateur tier player won't play for Barcelona. (edit: unless they are really really exceptional)

[Cyninja.2954]

@"maddoctor.2738" said:These are the types of players you;ll meet while pugging (in my experience)

1) The "toxic elitist". These guys join any group, they expect the group to run the encounter the way they know because they think their way is better. They are very proud of their dps numbers and will post them around constantly. Fortunately, when the group doesn't adjust to their whims, they will leave on their own, sometimes even mid-run. Good riddance.

2) The "toxic casual". On the other end of the spectrum we get these guys that join experienced groups even though they have none. Usually they stay completely silent and never say a thing, even when you try to ask them directly if they know the mechanics or not (after a wipe for example). They are the guys that expect to be carried and those more likely to try and fake their KP/LI using chat codes. Also the more likely to come on the forums to complain about toxicity.

3) The "talker". Occasionally we'll get someone that belongs to any of the above categories, but they make up for the toxicity by being very talkative. In the elitist case they will politely present why their way is better, or even provide insights how the team can improve based on their, admittedly higher, experience. In the casual case they might say it upfront that they are not very experienced in the fight but are willing to learn. They will also accept responsibility in case they cause a wipe. This goes a long way from the silent "carry me please" types and they more often than not get guild invites.

4) The "just what you need". When the groups asks for something and gets exactly what they want. Doesn't matter if they talk or not, what matters is that they fit perfectly the slot required, know the mechanics and are not trying to hijack the group. Sometimes they will give some input about dps or how it could've been done better, but usually after the fight and in a polite way.

Agree with all of those but you forgot 1:

5) The toxic elitist who is not as good as he thinks he is. Will bring mediocre performance. Act as though he is incredibly good. Fail at even simple mechanics and then blame supports for not keeping him alive or just in general blame other members of the squad. Often as a bonus with a limited capacity to understand and read arcdps beyond the damage readout and will hastly leave or become offended when more experienced players who actually can read arcdps data and keep an eye on the other members in squad call him out on his bad play. Luckily, most of these players leave quite fast after their ego was bruised.

[Eramonster.2718]

@Safandula.8723 said:this whole topic is about 1 ill guy, arguing with rest of forum, lol

This :astonished:.

@Mordayn.6198 said:Yeah, those builds had issues getting into raids before meters because people were assuming what the best builds were and weren't able to test them accurately. Since then Anet has put a DPS meter in game on the training golem. So even without Arc we would be able to benchmark build dps on the golem and practice rotations so that argument is no longer valid. As I've stated before, I use Arc for my personal dps monitoring. The issue isn't with this part of the tool. It's the ability to view other player's dps that is causing the toxic behavior we've been seeing in PUGs. A more valid monitor for player skill in raids isn't are they hitting benchmark level dps, it should be are they doing mechanics, are the reviving people, are they going down constantly or are they staying alive. DPS meters in some cases can cause people to focus more on dps numbers than anything else and they'll have high dps numbers but don't res and sometimes even die because they're trying to squeak out that little extra bit of rotation.

With the existence of the training golem to test the viability of builds that is no longer a valid argument for the need of Arc. As I've stated multiple times before I'm not anti DPS meter, I'm anti it being used as a tool to be toxic to other players. If the meter wasn't able to see other player dps it would actually be a lot healthier for the game.

When problem occurs and the squad leader needs data to analyse. Without a proper tool to monitor, unable to view others will only create problems. It could be as simple as provided with wrong data(eg. 15k dmg over 3 seconds is 15k dps, it's not) to falsifying data. While players with no intention to hide will give the data as measured which makes no difference (give transparency some faith). As long as the tool is accurate and working as intended. Now as for OP's concern, its not the tool but the user example taken & as mentioned below.

@"Condutas.3580" said:I never used arcdps...But the fun thing is, I ALWAYS, ALWAYS, after a kill, ask if someone have arcdps and ask them to whisper me my dps / boons uptime if I am in my chrono.

I ask for this information to be send to me via whisper for two reasons:

1° I dont want people to put a in party chat things like "you did 12k and you were the best" or "You did 7k you were 7th you suck". That happened a lot in full pug raids and I decided to cut it off. You whisper me, you can even insult me if you want, but the one thing I hate is people using the squad chat with other 9 players to humiliate each other. The internet is not a black hole for you to vent...

2° By asking for more information of my own performance via whisper... plus playing the raid always while representing RTI... plus having on my char a title related to raids (something like the title you get for doing w1 wihout deaths) already proofs to the other players that

I am willing to improve and take my time to do the best I can

In scenario 1°, if uncomfortable with it, try voicing/whisper to the player/squad leader to kindly put those feedback in whispers. Most of the time, they're just doing it for convinience to talk in a general channel than to address & reply individually to each and everyone. I'm sure in scenario 2° there are others with Arcdps able to monitor your dps aside from the person you whispered to as well.

Just an example; scenario 1° is being toxic while 2° isn't. Both scenario 1° and 2° uses the same tool. It's the user, not the tool.

P.s : Unrelated but what op's looking for is https://christyrutherford.blog/2015/12/31/leadership-meme-bosses-depend-on-authority-leaders-depend-on-goodwill/

[Clyan.1593]

Do as i do and play druid and staff thief only. As druid noone will bother you with dps, just blow your horn and ca for might and heals. As staff thief just evade, auto1 and spam 2 with combination of sigil, even if youre terrible on it, your dps will suffice.If you need cdps go with mirage and spam everything on cd.?

[Carcharoth Lucian.1378]

@"Clyan.1593" said:Do as i do and play druid and staff thief only. As druid noone will bother you with dps, just blow your horn and ca for might and heals. As staff thief just evade, auto1 and spam 2 with combination of sigil, even if youre terrible on it, your dps will suffice.If you need cdps go with mirage and spam everything on cd.?

For newcomers, condi soulbeast shortbow/shortbow is really better than mirage. "Rotation" consists in using f2, f3, 2, 4, 7, 8, 9 and elite on cooldown and swap weapon when you can to proc the sigil (flanking the boss bring more dps). Just by doing that you can easily outdps mirages who play poorly.

[Etria.3642]

@zionophir.6845 said:

@Cyninja.2954 said:

@zionophir.6845 said:

@Cyninja.2954 said:

@zionophir.6845 said:

@maddoctor.2738 said:

@zionophir.6845 said:you are claiming that you are pro in mathematics right? derive the components from that 15k skill 2 gs on a Vet in WvWvW (vet guard) without food and no vuln applied/9 might.

and from there calculate my DPS. you can even use arcdps for that (just remote it [this is much easier i think]).

15k is from a single skill that doesn't show how much damage the rest of your skills do. So go and actually count it it's not really hard to do. Start to back up your claims.

15k skill 2 on a vet ~ 9 might. i have berserker stance (no condi/adren++), heal sig (+resistance). i don't equip the adrenaline gain when hit trait. might makes right, all zerks, when i hit crit, i gain might (trait/sigil). rune of the eagle, balanced stance (traited/stance length++) stun breakers (endure pain/balanced stance[traits]+skills]..

now do your wonder and ESTIMATE my DPS with ALL THAT FACTORS.

Dps stands for damage per second and is often measured in damage Y over time index T.

A single hit from a skill which goes on cooldown (and thus is not available again) and without knowledge of the remaining rotation used and how well it is executed as well as setup of the character is literally impossible by definition.

But sure, given all the information provided your dps for the first 11.5 seconds is as follows:0-3.5 seconds: 4.28k3.5-7 seconds: 2.14k (since Greatsword 2 is on cooldown and you did not specify which skills you use)8-11.5 seconds: 2.6k

yeah when you're hitting like a punching bag.

compare that to fighting actual mobs that actually fight backs..

(and now you have probably a clue on how i play my warrior given those characteristics that i said right? and its damage per second right?)

do you want to know the real answer? MY DPS VARIES coz of those factors that i considered. i didn't even put there the players that i meld into or team with. obviously in the latters case, my dps goes up.. and if you consider all of your time spent (getting that second factor), damage will depend on the terrain and the time to reach into the boss right?

So what is DPS again? arcdps doesn't calculate Damage within an Instance per second. it calculates numbers that it can round of to Damage to a mob per second.

you were talking DPS right? the damage factor should obviously involve starting the instance at time zero.

yes?

why did i posted that picture for you to estimate what gear i am using.

anyway, so arcdps doesn't calculate the DPS that I need. so why should I use it?

so what has been REVEALED in this post? EVEN superspeed, swiftness and teleports add up to the total DPS.

You shouldn't use arc in WvW. Nobody ever said you should...

As to PvE, encounters are scripted, learning an encounter to have as good an uptime of damage as possible is part of becoming better at the encounter. Builds are measured by their possible dps on the golem and as such theoretically possible damage on a raid or fractal boss.

But even that is not relevant since this thread is about arcdps and performance on ACTUAL fights where it shows past performance.

Thus your entire variable dps argument is nonsense.

you cannot just isolate the DPS based on the boss. yes you know the dmg done to the boss but did it included the time when you got cced hard, blindness, conditions?

AND THE ACTUAL TIME THAT YOU REACHED TO THE BOSS AND STARTED HITTING IT?

Actually, arcDPS does indeed show you dps on the boss as well as total dps. It also shows how many times each person did or didn't do mechanics, how many times they revived someone, boon sharing both individual uptimes, party and squad. It's incredibly detailed.

Way back before I started raiding I was thoroughly convinced my dps was just fine. I could kill things, solo champs. My longbow power ranger was 'just fine'. Aaaand then I was grudgingly convinced to use arcDPS and whoa. It's kind of embarassing to see the condi ranger(this was before soulbeast) easily outdoing my piddly 3.9k dps. JUST CHANGING my gear and rotation, the very very very first try I did, literally clicking skills from a list I'd written down, my dps increased to 12.8. Which is, btw, still pretty bad. But once you get finger memory, positioning, mechanics, it's incredible.

And I wouldn't have even bothered ever swapping from my longbow if I hadn't actually seen it, in a raid, in front of my own eyes.

[Bloodclot.4896]

There will always be toxic people in online games, dps meters or not, my issue with them is people actually not playing well, reviving people or using skills to there best depending on fight mechanics, all there worrying about is there dps. This isn't good at all when bad players think there doing well because of 1 combat stat.

[LucianTheAngelic.7054]

@VDAC.2137 said:It’s not just in raids. I joined a fractal group via LFG already in the middle of a boss fight and several people down. I tried to simultaneously clear adds and work on getting people up but was not able to turn the tide. I was then told flat out that based on my DPS I was ****. :( No reason to argue or wait to be kicked. Now that situation in particular I did not go in trying to do my max rotation on the boss — what would have been the point??? But knowing that I my numbers are being watched and monitored... I know I am not the best but I think I pull my weight and I’m always working on improving... Anyway, I haven’t joined a PUG fractal group since then, which is my loss as I more often have had good experiences... :pensive:

Do you run ArcDPS yourself and monitor your own dps? The reason I ask is that I’ve seen a fair amount of people say (in the past) they’re “pulling their weight” and “they feel like they’re doing a lot of damage” when they’re actually doing 1/3rd the dps Of other players. Now I don’t condone people being toxic about dps, but they may have had a point even if their delivery was nasty or abrasive. The best thing you can do is to block, move on, and try to learn from the experience and get better.

If you aren’t running Arc I’d recommend running it. It’s probably the biggest and most important self help tool if you want to really improve and see your own performance. It’s good that you are trying to improve already as well! That’s the right mindset and attitude to have!

Additionally, you should get it so that you can know that you pull your weight instead of just thinking it. And you’ll also be able to know if other people are pulling their weight as well! You’d be surprised how little damage 90% of players do! On Chak Gerent for example I was in a 45 man squad for Nuhoch doing 25k+ and 40 of those players were doing 6-8k dps. That’s a HUGE difference! And it’s not like fractal or raid players are always in the 25k bracket either.

Tl;DR: Toxic people who use DPS meters to be toxic are nasty and I’m sorry that happened to you. Get the DPS meter yourself so you can actually see how you’re doing (if you don’t already have it) and work on improving, which will decrease the amount of times you run into toxic players (not possible to never run into toxic people) and show you how well you’re doing so that you can say with confidence “I’m pulling my weight”

[Henry.5713]

@"Metasynaptic.1093" said:I think there are some attitude issues at play here. Pugging in GW2 is like having a soccer team that is short 3 players, handing 3 shirts to spectators and expect to get Messi, Ronaldo and Kane to shoot for you.

Agreed. With the addition of the other side of the the issue. Random spectators feeling entirely entitled to be allowed to play amongst the great players you mentioned whenever they feel like playing "some" soccer.

[Compleo.3182]

One guy I know left cuz he couldnt get arcdps working for some reasons. And I think that is a good decision. Raids are already too easy, they are boring after a few times, you cant even get rewards more than once per week or more than once per CM. If anet banned arcdps and we didnt get smth else to measure dps, it would be useless to stay. Raids are fun only cuz you can push your performance and outdps ppl, reach dps mumbers on chrono which some ppl cant get playing warrior or, even worse, dps. No arcdps = no thrill.

[yann.1946]

@Compleo.3182 said:One guy I know left cuz he couldnt get arcdps working for some reasons. And I think that is a good decision. Raids are already too easy, they are boring after a few times, you cant even get rewards more than once per week or more than once per CM. If anet banned arcdps and we didnt get smth else to measure dps, it would be useless to stay. Raids are fun only cuz you can push your performance and outdps ppl, reach dps mumbers on chrono which some ppl cant get playing warrior or, even worse, dps. No arcdps = no thrill.

That is only a personal opinion ofcourse. You could for example try to improve groups performance etc. Or some people can just like the bossmechanics:)

[Myriada.7580]

@yann.1946 said:

@"Compleo.3182" said:One guy I know left cuz he couldnt get arcdps working for some reasons. And I think that is a good decision. Raids are already too easy, they are boring after a few times, you cant even get rewards more than once per week or more than once per CM. If anet banned arcdps and we didnt get smth else to measure dps, it would be useless to stay. Raids are fun only cuz you can push your performance and outdps ppl, reach dps mumbers on chrono which some ppl cant get playing warrior or, even worse, dps. No arcdps = no thrill.

That is only a personal opinion ofcourse. You could for example try to improve groups performance etc. Or some people can just like the bossmechanics:)

His point of view is from someone who's far far past the stage of improving with dealing with mechanics to complete the boss, and instead push your builds and rotations to perform better in an already guaranteed kill. GW2 currently only tells you: "you killed the boss with this much time left before enrage, gj :)", so having a tool that allows and helps more proficient players to at least have something to work on is essential to keep these players interested.

[yann.1946]

@Myriada.7580 said:

@yann.1946 said:

@"Compleo.3182" said:One guy I know left cuz he couldnt get arcdps working for some reasons. And I think that is a good decision. Raids are already too easy, they are boring after a few times, you cant even get rewards more than once per week or more than once per CM. If anet banned arcdps and we didnt get smth else to measure dps, it would be useless to stay. Raids are fun only cuz you can push your performance and outdps ppl, reach dps mumbers on chrono which some ppl cant get playing warrior or, even worse, dps. No arcdps = no thrill.

That is only a personal opinion ofcourse. You could for example try to improve groups performance etc. Or some people can just like the bossmechanics:)

His point of view is from someone who's far far past the stage of improving with dealing with mechanics to complete the boss, and instead push your builds and rotations to perform better in an already guaranteed kill. GW2 currently only tells you: "you killed the boss with this much time left before enrage, gj :)", so having a tool that allows and helps more proficient players to at least have something to work on is essential to keep these players interested.

That wasn't my point tho, he said that raids are to boring if you can't see you're dps. My point is that even if one performs optimally their will be people who still like bosses independently of their performance on the boss. And do his statement was a personal opinion.

[Diak Atoli.2085]

@Etria.3642 said:

@zionophir.6845 said:

@Cyninja.2954 said:

@zionophir.6845 said:

@Cyninja.2954 said:

@zionophir.6845 said:

@maddoctor.2738 said:

@zionophir.6845 said:you are claiming that you are pro in mathematics right? derive the components from that 15k skill 2 gs on a Vet in WvWvW (vet guard) without food and no vuln applied/9 might.

and from there calculate my DPS. you can even use arcdps for that (just remote it [this is much easier i think]).

15k is from a single skill that doesn't show how much damage the rest of your skills do. So go and actually count it it's not really hard to do. Start to back up your claims.

15k skill 2 on a vet ~ 9 might. i have berserker stance (no condi/adren++), heal sig (+resistance). i don't equip the adrenaline gain when hit trait. might makes right, all zerks, when i hit crit, i gain might (trait/sigil). rune of the eagle, balanced stance (traited/stance length++) stun breakers (endure pain/balanced stance[traits]+skills]..

now do your wonder and ESTIMATE my DPS with ALL THAT FACTORS.

Dps stands for damage per second and is often measured in damage Y over time index T.

A single hit from a skill which goes on cooldown (and thus is not available again) and without knowledge of the remaining rotation used and how well it is executed as well as setup of the character is literally impossible by definition.

But sure, given all the information provided your dps for the first 11.5 seconds is as follows:0-3.5 seconds: 4.28k3.5-7 seconds: 2.14k (since Greatsword 2 is on cooldown and you did not specify which skills you use)8-11.5 seconds: 2.6k

yeah when you're hitting like a punching bag.

compare that to fighting actual mobs that actually fight backs..

(and now you have probably a clue on how i play my warrior given those characteristics that i said right? and its damage per second right?)

do you want to know the real answer? MY DPS VARIES coz of those factors that i considered. i didn't even put there the players that i meld into or team with. obviously in the latters case, my dps goes up.. and if you consider all of your time spent (getting that second factor), damage will depend on the terrain and the time to reach into the boss right?

So what is DPS again? arcdps doesn't calculate Damage within an Instance per second. it calculates numbers that it can round of to Damage to a mob per second.

you were talking DPS right? the damage factor should obviously involve starting the instance at time zero.

yes?

why did i posted that picture for you to estimate what gear i am using.

anyway, so arcdps doesn't calculate the DPS that I need. so why should I use it?

so what has been REVEALED in this post? EVEN superspeed, swiftness and teleports add up to the total DPS.

You shouldn't use arc in WvW. Nobody ever said you should...

As to PvE, encounters are scripted, learning an encounter to have as good an uptime of damage as possible is part of becoming better at the encounter. Builds are measured by their possible dps on the golem and as such theoretically possible damage on a raid or fractal boss.

But even that is not relevant since this thread is about arcdps and performance on ACTUAL fights where it shows past performance.

Thus your entire variable dps argument is nonsense.

you cannot just isolate the DPS based on the boss. yes you know the dmg done to the boss but did it included the time when you got cced hard, blindness, conditions?

AND THE ACTUAL TIME THAT YOU REACHED TO THE BOSS AND STARTED HITTING IT?

Actually, arcDPS does indeed show you dps on the boss as well as total dps. It also shows how many times each person did or didn't do mechanics, how many times they revived someone, boon sharing both individual uptimes, party and squad. It's incredibly detailed.

Way back before I started raiding I was thoroughly convinced my dps was just fine. I could kill things, solo champs. My longbow power ranger was 'just fine'. Aaaand then I was grudgingly convinced to use arcDPS and whoa. It's kind of embarassing to see the condi ranger(this was before soulbeast) easily outdoing my piddly 3.9k dps. JUST CHANGING my gear and rotation, the very very very first try I did, literally clicking skills from a list I'd written down, my dps increased to 12.8. Which is, btw, still pretty bad. But once you get finger memory, positioning, mechanics, it's incredible.

And I wouldn't have even bothered ever swapping from my longbow if I hadn't actually seen it, in a raid, in front of my own eyes.

Now, if only Condi Ranger was good for all raid bosses, I'd be a happy OW Longbow Ranger. :sweat_smile:

[VDAC.2137]

@LucianTheAngelic.7054 said:

@VDAC.2137 said:It’s not just in raids. I joined a fractal group via LFG already in the middle of a boss fight and several people down. I tried to simultaneously clear adds and work on getting people up but was not able to turn the tide. I was then told flat out that based on my DPS I was ****. :( No reason to argue or wait to be kicked. Now that situation in particular I did not go in trying to do my max rotation on the boss — what would have been the point??? But knowing that I my numbers are being watched and monitored... I know I am not the best but I think I pull my weight and I’m always working on improving... Anyway, I haven’t joined a PUG fractal group since then, which is my loss as I more often have had good experiences... :pensive:

Do you run ArcDPS yourself and monitor your own dps? The reason I ask is that I’ve seen a fair amount of people say (in the past) they’re “pulling their weight” and “they feel like they’re doing a lot of damage” when they’re actually doing 1/3rd the dps Of other players. Now I don’t condone people being toxic about dps, but they may have had a point even if their delivery was nasty or abrasive. The best thing you can do is to block, move on, and try to learn from the experience and get better.

If you aren’t running Arc I’d recommend running it. It’s probably the biggest and most important self help tool if you want to really improve and see your own performance. It’s good that you are trying to improve already as well! That’s the right mindset and attitude to have!

Additionally, you should get it so that you can

know

that you pull your weight instead of just

thinking

it. And you’ll also be able to know if other people are pulling their weight as well! You’d be surprised how little damage 90% of players do! On Chak Gerent for example I was in a 45 man squad for Nuhoch doing 25k+ and 40 of those players were doing 6-8k dps. That’s a HUGE difference! And it’s not like fractal or raid players are always in the 25k bracket either.

Tl;DR: Toxic people who use DPS meters to be toxic are nasty and I’m sorry that happened to you. Get the DPS meter yourself so you can actually see how you’re doing (if you don’t already have it) and work on improving, which will decrease the amount of times you run into toxic players (not possible to never run into toxic people) and show you how well you’re doing so that you can say with confidence “I’m pulling my weight”

I haven’t been, no. I reference sites like Snowcrows for effective builds and skill prioritization, etc., and then go by game feedback, i.e., what keeps me alive and brings down foes fastest. I confess I’ve avoided meters in part because of the mentality and use I’d encountered around them, people focusing on their numbers to the detriment of the group/encounter as in the old meme of DPS standing in aoe crying to be healed because interrupting their rotation even to take a step would ruin their numbers. But as you and others have pointed out, it is a tool and I should not deprive myself of its utility simply because others misuse it (as in the instance I gave, I was trying to rez people when I joined a group already on their way to wiping when I joined the group — I’m sure my numbers were crap, but what were they doing lying on the ground? Anyway... :lol ).

[Stand The Wall.6987]

didn't 3rd party dps tools used to only show the dps of others using the tool? seems like this would be the best solution. big laughs at ppl who think dps tools are needed to clear content.

[Cyninja.2954]

@Stand The Wall.6987 said:didn't 3rd party dps tools used to only show the dps of others using the tool? seems like this would be the best solution. big laughs at ppl who think dps tools are needed to clear content.

No, that was how one tool worked, in this case BGDM which was discontinued last year.

As for needing dps meters,they are not needed but are a great help at both optimizing builds, performance, rotations, etc. as well as prevent uninformed party restructuring and class bias.

Not sure why that would be something to laugh at given that likely most people in favor of dps meters in this thread have likely cleared and mastered raid and fractal content 10-20 times above what you have.

[Stand The Wall.6987]

@Cyninja.2954 said:Not sure why that would be something to laugh at given that likely most people in favor of dps meters in this thread have likely cleared and mastered raid and fractal content 10-20 times above what you have.

pure logic.

[Cyninja.2954]

@Stand The Wall.6987 said:

@Cyninja.2954 said:Not sure why that would be something to laugh at given that likely most people in favor of dps meters in this thread have likely cleared and mastered raid and fractal content 10-20 times above what you have.

pure logic.

If you consider people who have experience with the content versus people just like talking about content with no experience both talking about helpful tools, sure.

[Stand The Wall.6987]

@Cyninja.2954 said:

@Stand The Wall.6987 said:

@Cyninja.2954 said:Not sure why that would be something to laugh at given that likely most people in favor of dps meters in this thread have likely cleared and mastered raid and fractal content 10-20 times above what you have.

pure logic.

If you consider people who have experience with the content versus people just like talking about content with no experience both talking about helpful tools, sure.

instead of using the tool 24/7, you could you know, build up a friends list or join a guild. it would save tons of everyones time.

[Cyninja.2954]

@Stand The Wall.6987 said:

@Cyninja.2954 said:

@Stand The Wall.6987 said:

@Cyninja.2954 said:Not sure why that would be something to laugh at given that likely most people in favor of dps meters in this thread have likely cleared and mastered raid and fractal content 10-20 times above what you have.

pure logic.

If you consider people who have experience with the content versus people just like talking about content with no experience both talking about helpful tools, sure.

instead of using the tool 24/7, you could you know, build up a friends list or join a guild. it would save tons of everyones time.

I full clear mondays wing 1-7 in 4 hours and have access to 3 more groups who raid weekly.

What does access to raids have anything to do with the benefits of knowledge and information a dps meter brings? Those are 2 completely different things.

[Carcharoth Lucian.1378]

@Stand The Wall.6987 said:

@Cyninja.2954 said:

@Stand The Wall.6987 said:

@Cyninja.2954 said:Not sure why that would be something to laugh at given that likely most people in favor of dps meters in this thread have likely cleared and mastered raid and fractal content 10-20 times above what you have.

pure logic.

If you consider people who have experience with the content versus people just like talking about content with no experience both talking about helpful tools, sure.

instead of using the tool 24/7, you could you know, build up a friends list or join a guild. it would save tons of everyones time.

I agree with @Cyninja.2954. You can have a guild/roster and a friendlist AND use arcdps (almost all the raiders i know use it).And why use a meter would be a timeloss? It doesn't make sense for me.

[zealex.9410]

@Stand The Wall.6987 said:

@Cyninja.2954 said:

@Stand The Wall.6987 said:

@Cyninja.2954 said:Not sure why that would be something to laugh at given that likely most people in favor of dps meters in this thread have likely cleared and mastered raid and fractal content 10-20 times above what you have.

pure logic.

If you consider people who have experience with the content versus people just like talking about content with no experience both talking about helpful tools, sure.

instead of using the tool 24/7, you could you know, build up a friends list or join a guild. it would save tons of everyones time.

No such thing as a friends list, this game only has a follower list and its a pretty crappy system at that. Hoping gw3 will have an actual friendlist.

[jan.7915]

DPS meter is like a mirror, take it away and close your eyes while telling yourself that he not the best looking but not too bad either will make you feel a lot better. Then again, usually a haircut and brushing your yellow teeth would raise the bar a lot with very minor effort.

DPS meter is good, knowing that you do half DPS is good, people telling you is good. Haircut are good and 30 minutes on kitten Golem would double the average players DPS enough to never get complaint again,ever.

Meanies Will notice that your rotations suck and that the boss is dying slowly without DPS meter but having it makes it way easier to improve bad objectively reflect.