Why all flashy things are in the gem store !? (Smells like P2W?)

[mindcircus.1506]

I can't take your post seriously without at least 14 more exclamation points.

[Crab Fear.1624]

Do you happen to a picture of one of these winners? (scratch their name out)

[crepuscular.9047]

Absolutely reasonable, nothing wrong with Pay 2 Wear for those do not have the time to work on flashy things.

Nice skins pretty much come into 3 category

• Grind-fest: Legendaries and Craftables that all takes loads of time and material - for those don't have a lot of leisure money and have way too much time on their hands

• Feeling Lucky?: Blacklion skins - for those gambling addicts that have plenty of money to splash

• Pay2Wear: Gemstore - for those do have the leisure money, but hates gambling and dont have the time to play, yet want something look nice

If you believe that the amount of money you can make in the real world is worth way more than the amount of gold you earn, sure, spent it up as a luxury

the fundamental rule of the human cilivisation is, Time = Money, but no amount of money can you buy time

be glad that skin trading never existed

[Dragon Priestess.9760]

Vanity items are P2W now? News to me...

[solemace.8427]

If you have the time and put in the effort you can get these skins using nothing but gold and converting it to gems. its there for you to use.

[anninke.7469]

The right question is: Why are all things in gem store so kitten flashy? I'd kill (and by "kill" I mean "pay") for nice simple skins.

[VanWilder.6923]

@smashgodlight.6584 said:

It is fun to have the “flashy things” that lead to “P2W” in the same sentence.

I am strongly disagree with the OP.

Fashion war is completely optional and not all the players are interested in fashion war. I am 1 of those who are not.

[aspirine.6852]

pay to dress is more like it.

[Nath Forge Tempete.1645]

Pay to win the fashion wars !! Aight !

[MashMash.1645]

1. What are you “winning”?
2. Someone actually went through all the in game vs gem store items. Its not as bad as you think, and it’s getting better.

https://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/cnm14q/a_thorough_overview_of_rewards_part_ii_gem_store/

Several interesting notes from the data:

Armor and weapons are surprisingly fair (with the exception of Season 3, which I think soured a lot of people on the gemstore entirely). Again, there's no accounting for taste, and obvious favoritism for the gemstore like the Starborn outfit vs the fractal infusion is going to rankle people, but on the whole I think the idea that we're not getting any rewards unless they can be directly monetized is not true. I think ANet knows if they push the gemstore too hard, we notice and stop playing.

PoF stands out as being the one content release where in-game content outpaced gemstore content in all of the categories: armor pieces, weapon sets, and individual weapons.

Weapons fare much better. Standalone weapons in-game consistently outpace standalone weapons in the gemstore. Again, Season 3 weapon sets were much more prevalent in the gemstore, but Season 4 has been much closer, and HoT and PoF both were equal or better than the gemstore. Also, almost all BLC weapon sets end up on the TP with fairly reasonable prices, so you rarely have to gamble or pay gems to acquire these.

[Game of Bones.8975]

Personally, I always thought the best stuff was locked away in WvW, Fractals, and Raids. If you don't play any of those formats, there is no other crafting/buying option.

I've purchased gems when I need the gold to buy a ton of mats that would take days/weeks for me to farm.

I have spent gems on keys and have some nice skins, but they are few and far between.

I don't buy skins, minis, or single-character items -- only account-wide items: bank slots, inventory expansions, shared inventory slots, etc. (and two Legendary weapons -- thank you whoever crafted my Predator and Incinerator, I hope you have enjoyed my gold as much as I have enjoyed the weapons).

[Danikat.8537]

@"MashMash.1645" said:

1. What are you “winning”?
2. Someone actually went through all the in game vs gem store items. Its not as bad as you think, and it’s getting better.

https://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/cnm14q/a_thorough_overview_of_rewards_part_ii_gem_store/

Several interesting notes from the data:

Armor and weapons are surprisingly fair (with the exception of Season 3, which I think soured a lot of people on the gemstore entirely). Again, there's no accounting for taste, and obvious favoritism for the gemstore like the Starborn outfit vs the fractal infusion is going to rankle people, but on the whole I think the idea that we're not getting any rewards unless they can be directly monetized is not true. I think ANet knows if they push the gemstore too hard, we notice and stop playing.

PoF stands out as being the one content release where in-game content outpaced gemstore content in all of the categories: armor pieces, weapon sets, and individual weapons.

Weapons fare much better. Standalone weapons in-game consistently outpace standalone weapons in the gemstore. Again, Season 3 weapon sets were much more prevalent in the gemstore, but Season 4 has been much closer, and HoT and PoF both were equal or better than the gemstore. Also, almost all BLC weapon sets end up on the TP with fairly reasonable prices, so you rarely have to gamble or pay gems to acquire these.

I keep forgetting black lion weapons are gem store weapons for example that reason: I've never bought gems to get them. If I want one I buy it from the TP or very occasionally with tickets from chests opened with free keys. There's also only a few I've liked enough to buy though, most of them are too bulky and complicated for my tastes.

I'm seriously considering the Endless Ocean shortbow for my 'Champion of Aurene' costume because the colours are right and the fins look kind-of like dragon wings, but if I do I'll get it with ticket scraps from free keys. But I'm also swapping out the tempest torch for a heroic dragonsblood torch, so I'll end up with the same number of gem store skins. (1 less if you consider that I swapped the chaos sword for the Claw of the Scion, but that was before I decided to do a whole theme.)

I suppose it depends on what context you're looking at it. On an individual basis I don't count them as gem store skins because if you want one the sensible way to get it is to get gold and buy it from the TP so it's the same as a rare in-game drop (like Final Rest) which you're unlikely to get yourself but could buy. But if you're looking at the game as a whole and what generates gem sales then they should be counted because someone, somewhere had to buy gems for that weapon to enter the game. It's just that could be several steps removed from the person using the weapon.

[Taygus.4571]

@smashgodlight.6584 said:personally I haven't spend any money on gems

So.. you don't support the game?

but what worries me the most is that I've seen more content being added in the gem store rather than the actual game it's self.

And your surprised they need to add more to the gemstore tha the game, in the hopes getting players like you...who don't pay...to start paying.

The game features a lot of game modes from PVE/PVP/WVW and then you can find your self in dungeons (dead feature) Fractals Raids WB's Metas and so on. The main reason why am mentioning all this game modes it's to realize that there are a lot of ways to implement more rewards in the game.

There's plenty of rewards tho....just not the ones you want.Why should they give them for free?

On the other hand all the flashy good looking armor sets or weapons sets are found as skins/oufits in the gem store and in the game the amount of actually good looking armors are really small compared to the outfits of gem store ! Now what I hate the most is that there are actually some armors without using any gems but you have to either sit down and grind for hours just to get 1 piece of the armor ! Also most of the times if you want a good looking armor you have to follow this way because there are no good looking drops for armors .

Upset because you have to play the game?..for a skin. Something you don't need.

Going to the other point, the amount of times I've seen a precursor or at least a drop was only 1 time after all those years is like a 0.0% to get it ! Am mentioning the precursors because if you want a good looking weapon in the game you have to go either legendary or skin ...or an actually good exotic that has a rare effect on it !

Skins with affects...aren't good looking to everyone.

Many people end up buying a skin from the gem store. And as for the precursors you just buy them too from the store.

So? No one needs it. No one is stronger than someone who doesn't have it.

Also one thing that I really hate is that the game starts to minimize the ways to get gold it almost feels like Anet is forcing people to put money for gold !

Anet has a sub free game, still wants to earn money...shocker.

Now I know there are a lot of people who know a lot of ways some of them though they are sitting in front of trading post and just flipping up prices ! I am not that type I tried it I got my gold but it wasn't as enjoyable as actually playing the game and getting gold ! I would prefer to have the broken Domain of Istan farm where you could get up to 100g the run but actually play the game ! Now that is a reward !

That Istan farm needed to be nerfed.

Last point not that I really care about a mount skin but since PoF came out all of the skins are found in the Gem store ! I would prefer to have all this different looking mounts be part of the game and have a collection ! Not a huge one like the skyscale but a fairly easy collection ! But then again going back to the top it start to feel like the devs are trying to make the game a low key pay to win ! Strong words there but we don't have to hide behind our fingers !

How does this benefit Anet?

Pay to win means being stronger than players who don't pay.

Fashion idn't pay2win.

[AlexxxDelta.1806]

@"Taygus.4571" said:

..for a skin. Something you don't need.

Some of your points I agree, others I disagree with. Obviously P2W is a wrong term to use as there is no real competitive element in "Fashion Wars". Nothing to win.

But I wanted to focus on this one. I was wondering, what do we "need" in this game, if not skins? "Need" in the context of a video game of course.

Let's focus on PvE, as it's practically this game's main play mode, with PvP having its vocal crowd but still niche. What's the carrot on a stick for GW2 PvE? For WoW and many other games for example, it's gear progression (power) and reaching new level caps. And every mmorpg needs their carrot, otherwise the moment you go through the available content you like, you are left with nothing to do. It's also a fact that very few players like everything a theme-park mmo has to offer. Most pick and choose.

So what's driving all those PvE farmers to do the same metas over and over again to get more gold? What for? What's the main reward in someone's mind when they are doing fractals all the time? What's driving raiders to do the same hardcore content again and again? You get a sense of accomplishment the first time you do it after all, no need for more.

So if what drives GW2's endgame progression is not cosmetic collection, what is it?

[Big Red Candle.5186]

do you understand what "play to win" means?

[Fremtid.3528]

@"Big Red Candle.5186" said:do you understand what "play to win" means?

its "pay to win"but what i think you're all missing is the secret real name of gw2 is "fashion wars 2" and the way to win is have shinies, so the gemstore really is "pay to win" in your own secret mission of winning your own "fashion war" XD

/s

[Ashen.2907]

@AlexxxDelta.1806 said:

@"Taygus.4571" said:

..for a skin. Something you don't need.

Some of your points I agree, others I disagree with. Obviously P2W is a wrong term to use as there is no real competitive element in "Fashion Wars". Nothing to win.

But I wanted to focus on this one. I was wondering, what do we "need" in this game, if not skins? "Need" in the context of a video game of course.

Let's focus on PvE, as it's practically this game's main play mode, with PvP having its vocal crowd but still niche. What's the carrot on a stick for GW2 PvE? For WoW and many other games for example, it's gear progression (power) and reaching new level caps. And every mmorpg needs their carrot, otherwise the moment you go through the available content you like, you are left with nothing to do. It's also a fact that very few players like everything a theme-park mmo has to offer. Most pick and choose.

So what's driving all those PvE farmers to do the same metas over and over again to get more gold? What for? What's the main reward in someone's mind when they are doing fractals all the time? What's driving raiders to do the same hardcore content again and again? You get a sense of accomplishment the first time you do it after all, no need for more.

So if what drives GW2's endgame progression is not cosmetic collection, what is it?

For me it is enjoyment of the process. New skins rarely compete with appearance options chosen for my characters years ago.

[Taygus.4571]

@AlexxxDelta.1806 said:

@"Taygus.4571" said:

..for a skin. Something you don't need.

Some of your points I agree, others I disagree with. Obviously P2W is a wrong term to use as there is no real competitive element in "Fashion Wars". Nothing to win.

But I wanted to focus on this one. I was wondering, what do we "need" in this game, if not skins? "Need" in the context of a video game of course.

Let's focus on PvE, as it's practically this game's main play mode, with PvP having its vocal crowd but still niche. What's the carrot on a stick for GW2 PvE? For WoW and many other games for example, it's gear progression (power) and reaching new level caps. And every mmorpg needs their carrot, otherwise the moment you go through the available content you like, you are left with nothing to do. It's also a fact that very few players like everything a theme-park mmo has to offer. Most pick and choose.

So what's driving all those PvE farmers to do the same metas over and over again to get more gold? What for? What's the main reward in someone's mind when they are doing fractals all the time? What's driving raiders to do the same hardcore content again and again? You get a sense of accomplishment the first time you do it after all, no need for more.

So if what drives GW2's endgame progression is not cosmetic collection, what is it?

Idk about you...but I do 2 things in this game.

Whatever i find fun at the moment...whether its good gold earning or bad. I don't play metas or fractals or raids for gold/reward. i just play them because I enjoy them.When I have enough gold to get something or work on something, its just a bonus. I don't grind for skins/ gemstore stuffs.

An achieve/collection I've decided to work on, just for something to do.

[XatraZaytrax.2601]

@Taygus.4571 said:

@AlexxxDelta.1806 said:

@Taygus.4571 said:

..for a skin. Something you don't need.

Some of your points I agree, others I disagree with. Obviously P2W is a wrong term to use as there is no real competitive element in "Fashion Wars". Nothing to win.

But I wanted to focus on this one. I was wondering, what do we "need" in this game, if not skins? "Need" in the context of a video game of course.

Let's focus on PvE, as it's practically this game's main play mode, with PvP having its vocal crowd but still niche. What's the carrot on a stick for GW2 PvE? For WoW and many other games for example, it's gear progression (power) and reaching new level caps. And every mmorpg needs their carrot, otherwise the moment you go through the available content you like, you are left with nothing to do. It's also a fact that very few players like everything a theme-park mmo has to offer. Most pick and choose.

So what's driving all those PvE farmers to do the same metas over and over again to get more gold? What for? What's the main reward in someone's mind when they are doing fractals all the time? What's driving raiders to do the same hardcore content again and again? You get a sense of accomplishment the first time you do it after all, no need for more.

So if what drives GW2's endgame progression is not cosmetic collection, what is it?

Idk about you...but I do 2 things in this game.

Whatever i find fun at the moment...whether its good gold earning or bad. I don't play metas or fractals or raids for gold/reward. i just play them because I enjoy them.When I have enough gold to get something or work on something, its just a bonus. I don't grind for skins/ gemstore stuffs.

An achieve/collection I've decided to work on, just for something to do.

Agreed! For me being able to play this game is it's own reward. Everything else is a bonus.

[AlexxxDelta.1806]

@Taygus.4571 said:

@AlexxxDelta.1806 said:

@Taygus.4571 said:

..for a skin. Something you don't need.

Some of your points I agree, others I disagree with. Obviously P2W is a wrong term to use as there is no real competitive element in "Fashion Wars". Nothing to win.

But I wanted to focus on this one. I was wondering, what do we "need" in this game, if not skins? "Need" in the context of a video game of course.

Let's focus on PvE, as it's practically this game's main play mode, with PvP having its vocal crowd but still niche. What's the carrot on a stick for GW2 PvE? For WoW and many other games for example, it's gear progression (power) and reaching new level caps. And every mmorpg needs their carrot, otherwise the moment you go through the available content you like, you are left with nothing to do. It's also a fact that very few players like everything a theme-park mmo has to offer. Most pick and choose.

So what's driving all those PvE farmers to do the same metas over and over again to get more gold? What for? What's the main reward in someone's mind when they are doing fractals all the time? What's driving raiders to do the same hardcore content again and again? You get a sense of accomplishment the first time you do it after all, no need for more.

So if what drives GW2's endgame progression is not cosmetic collection, what is it?

Idk about you...but I do 2 things in this game.

Whatever i find fun at the moment...whether its good gold earning or bad. I don't play metas or fractals or raids for gold/reward. i just play them because I enjoy them.When I have enough gold to get something or work on something, its just a bonus. I don't grind for skins/ gemstore stuffs.

An achieve/collection I've decided to work on, just for something to do.

So you would play a fractal for the umpteenth time, having practically memorized everything about it, purely for the fun of it?

I guess that might be true for some people. I'd wager it's not for the majority. MMOs are reward-driven games, it's no accident game communities raise a stink every time they find certain content to be unrewarding. Or get up in arms when certain content is nerfed reward-wise.

And in this game, without vertical progression, most rewards end up being either gold for skins or...skins.

[Taygus.4571]

@AlexxxDelta.1806 said:

@Taygus.4571 said:

@AlexxxDelta.1806 said:

@Taygus.4571 said:

..for a skin. Something you don't need.

Some of your points I agree, others I disagree with. Obviously P2W is a wrong term to use as there is no real competitive element in "Fashion Wars". Nothing to win.

But I wanted to focus on this one. I was wondering, what do we "need" in this game, if not skins? "Need" in the context of a video game of course.

Let's focus on PvE, as it's practically this game's main play mode, with PvP having its vocal crowd but still niche. What's the carrot on a stick for GW2 PvE? For WoW and many other games for example, it's gear progression (power) and reaching new level caps. And every mmorpg needs their carrot, otherwise the moment you go through the available content you like, you are left with nothing to do. It's also a fact that very few players like everything a theme-park mmo has to offer. Most pick and choose.

So what's driving all those PvE farmers to do the same metas over and over again to get more gold? What for? What's the main reward in someone's mind when they are doing fractals all the time? What's driving raiders to do the same hardcore content again and again? You get a sense of accomplishment the first time you do it after all, no need for more.

So if what drives GW2's endgame progression is not cosmetic collection, what is it?

Idk about you...but I do 2 things in this game.

Whatever i find fun at the moment...whether its good gold earning or bad. I don't play metas or fractals or raids for gold/reward. i just play them because I enjoy them.When I have enough gold to get something or work on something, its just a bonus. I don't grind for skins/ gemstore stuffs.

An achieve/collection I've decided to work on, just for something to do.

So you would play a fractal for the umpteenth time, having practically memorized everything about it, purely for the fun of it?

That's the thing, I'm still learning and improving, I still struggle with many fractals. there's still soooooo much for me to do. I don't play fractals daily.I only play about 2 hours a day(on average, not actually daily).And if i happen to actually feel like I've mastered my class, I move to the next, to try and learn it too.

[VAHNeunzehnsechundsiebzig.]

hm, I am pretty flashy on my main, but the only gemstore skin I am using is on head option. All the really nice looking stuff is earned in game. Besides, no matter what skin you are using it is, after all, just a skin. Nothing else. Skins do not say anything about stat sets (and in fact, some of my utterly packed characters even use basic cultural/dungeon skins, so they do not even look like it).

[casualkenny.9817]

You can argue that a significant number of players play to collect skins/collectibles/ap/cats/whatever. Especially once they have tried everything that they are interested in trying. I think most people wouldn't disagree.

But I think most collectors collect for their own enjoyment, not in competition with others. And the type of collector who does compete is likely to sneer at skins that anyone can buy with their credit card.

The best part is, the type of player that has tried most things already is either in retirement mode, converting their stockpiles of gold to gems, or is busy in real life and uses cash to get things that they personally enjoy.

Prove your premise that fashion wars automatically equals people competing g against each other to 'win' against one another. Establish your definition of 'winning', and what winning looks like.

Because you are most likely the second type of collector that I described, and your true gripe is that there's nothing/few-things exclusive from the free market available for you to collect and brag about in the secret place of your heart.

The rest of us design and collect for our own personal enjoyment (even though compliments are probably very welcome). Gw2 gameplay and systems probably attracts fewer truly-competitive players

[IndigoSundown.5419]

Please hate on the gem store all you like, but try to come up with an original argument, or just an honest "I don't like the way ANet does business." rather than trying to shame the developer by linking your dislike to a commonly accepted hatred for companies that allow players to buy success in competitive, player-vs-player gameplay. Trying to port negative meanings based on one thing to another thing is at best shoddy debating, and, at worst, sophistry.

[Shadow Chaser.1948]

everyone is so Flashy these days, the one without any flashy stuff stands out now. lol