New Mechanic - "Depleted" - To initiative spam cheese skills

[Ruufio.1496]

After using infiltrators arrow or other such cheesable/too strong skills you receive a debuff called "depleted" that stops initiative regeneration for 3 seconds. This stacks in intensity.

You can then do other things with this debuff like making different thresholds for the debuff dependent on how many times a skill is spammed in a row. S/D condi is such a build that spams sword 2 for broken condi cheese. (You also shouldn't be able to use sword 2's infiltrators strike without a target since it's a dumb way to remove conditions by spamming 2 without a target)

As an example for the threshold:Infiltrators Strike 1st use in a row - No effectInfiltrators Strike 2nd use in a row - Level 1 depletion (temporarily minuses 3 max initiative for 3s)Infiltrators Strike 3rd use in a row - Level 2 depletion (temporarily minuses 6 max initiative for 3s)Infiltrators Strike 4th use in a row - Level 3 depletion (temporarily minuses 12 max initiative for 3s)

Fine tuning could be done of course and this wouldn't necessarily have to be for every skill.But that's just an idea. Have to plant the seed in the devs heads to see the fruit come to fruition.

Enjoy, peace.

[Curennos.9307]

Why implement this? What makes this better than, say, just adjusting the supposedly 'cheese' or 'too strong' skill?

[Alatar.7364]

I am not even depressed by these tragic posts anymore, lets just giggle and move on.

[Kageseigi.2150]

I have a different idea. How about...

When you run out of initiative, your initiative regeneration doubles for 3 seconds ;-D

Or even better...

You have two initiative pools of 12 (24 total). When your first one runs out, you can still use the second, but the skills are only half as powerful. So make sure to not spam too much so you're always attacking with full power! :-D

Hmm, I'm starting to like that second idea. Just put "Slow" or "Weakened" or "Exhausted" on the Thief whenever it has used up its first initiative pool. Remove them when the first initiative pool begins to regenerate. It handicaps the Thief, but doesn't take him out of the fight. Like old-school X-Wing/TIE Fighter energy management.

[Sigmoid.7082]

The playerbases ability to come up with terrible ideas is truly astounding.

[Infusion.7149]

Why is this even a topic?If S/D condi is an issue, hitting initiative as a mechanic isn't the answer and the proposed changes by devs will reduce condition application.https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/91447/potential-future-balance-changes-pvp#latest

[Jugglemonkey.8741]

I love how the OP's second to last discussion is titled "Can we get a couple of reasonable, minor changes to some abilities?" and then he comes out with this.

[Cougre.6543]

Let's completely remove thief's initiative system and replace it with regular cooldowns.

[Trianox.3486]

@Cougre.6543 said:Let's completely remove thief's initiative system and replace it with regular cooldowns.

I choose thief for initiatives pool and the flexibility it brings. If you add cooldown, you just make it a warrior with weaker skills and it looses ita flavours almost completely.

[Crab Fear.1624]

No thanks.

[Psycoprophet.8107]

This post should surprise no one.

[ZDragon.3046]

no no no no this is dumb its over complicating the class for no reason.

IF you want to punish skill spam there are better ways to do it in this case Infiltrators StrikeJust make it so that if the thief misses the strike they are locked in melee range has no return spot or make the return cost more expensive.

[kash.9213]

Stop being lazy and pack some better shit in your build.

[Sobx.1758]

@Alatar.7364 said:I am not even depressed by these tragic posts anymore, lets just giggle and move on.

Pretty much all that had to be said here :D

[Sir Vincent III.1286]

@Ruufio.1496 said:You also shouldn't be able to use sword 2's infiltrators strike without a target since it's a dumb way to remove conditions by spamming 2 without a target

Following your logic, initiative would not be depleted if your skill didn't initiate an attack. Thus, the Dev could make all skills free if it didn't hit a target. So using infiltrators arrows or sword #2 without a target will be free and would not be depleted since it's not technically an intitiated attack.

[NorthernRedStar.3054]

The amount of thief hate on forums and in-game has reached new heights.

Truly depressing to look at this community at times.

[childhoodtwo.7095]

its pretty funny that ppl that never played thief and understand it give ideas about how to balance it. dodge 4 head.

[Antycypator.9874]

As a trade-off, buff skills by 100%. Instead of spamming skills, we will just one-shot you with less effort.

[Psycoprophet.8107]

@NorthernRedStar.3054 said:The amount of thief hate on forums and in-game has reached new heights.

Truly depressing to look at this community at times.

Yeah if u cap 10× in a match while ur team feeds kills to other team ull get thief learn to rotate etc and the loss is clearly ur fault not the fact they can't live thru any engagements lol its priceless how much a scape goat thief class is.

[Stand The Wall.6987]

instead of this overly complicated system, it would make more sense to nerf total ini.

[Shao.7236]

Why hit the initiative? Why not just put an ICD to the spammed skill instead? Even better, why not make the range 600 instead since that's the glaring issue and not the actual spam since spamming = can't do anything.

Because it's pretty obvious that one weapon skill with so much control is unhealthy to the profession choice and the ability for anyone to keep up. Being able to cover more distance than utility at no cost is really the big problem here.

[kash.9213]

@"Shao.7236" said:Why hit the initiative? Why not just put an ICD to the spammed skill instead? Even better, why not make the range 600 instead since that's the glaring issue and not the actual spam since spamming = can't do anything.

Because it's pretty obvious that one weapon skill with so much control is unhealthy to the profession choice and the ability for anyone to keep up. Being able to cover more distance than utility at no cost is really the big problem here.

It cost half a thief's Initiative, and if they're "spamming" it than it's probably more of a wvw feedback loop build and you got nothing to worry about unless you're in wvw in the middle of a blob. If they're not spamming it, they're still using that Initiative for movement instead of blinds, which in my mode is what I conserve my Initiative for but it means gambling with not having the movement at the right time. The skill is regulated by it's cost, send someone to stay ahead of them or bring pulls and other stops.

[NorthernRedStar.3054]

@Psycoprophet.8107 said:

@"NorthernRedStar.3054" said:The amount of thief hate on forums and in-game has reached new heights.

Truly depressing to look at this community at times.

Yeah if u cap 10× in a match while ur team feeds kills to other team ull get thief learn to rotate etc and the loss is clearly ur fault not the fact they can't live thru any engagements lol its priceless how much a scape goat thief class is.

It's hilarious, I've been getting hate in games where I've consistently run 2 people in circles at far, and went 16-0. Seeing thief in your team triggers some primitive reaction in certain people.

Remember to shout out "TEEF!" every time this happens.

[Antycypator.9874]

By the way, hitting so hard Thief's mechanic... why doing this? Every class has it's own thing. In that case:Warriors, after using their adrenaline bar, they should get heavily exhausted which inflicts weakness + they can't start filling their adrenaline for some time.Guardians, they can buff and heal allies, but not themselves.Revenants, their energy can be refilled only at legend swap.Rangers, pets die and they can't be used until they're revived like players.Engineer, their skills would be ammo based, which means: you can throw only 3 grenades or bombs until kit's ammo is deployed and going to CD. Same with flamethrower (fuel), Mortar kit, elixir gun. Turretswould be also ammo based.Elementalists, casting magic spells should cost some energy which would be endurance bar.Mesmers, spawning an illusion or phantasm would inflict a debuff, which treshold would be 3 stacks (for every illusion/phantasm use). After reaching 3 stacks, mesmer can't spawn any more illusions. Debuff would last for 3 seconds after using shatter skill.Necromancers, Life force would be only for powering shourd form and it wouldn't replace health.

Please, Anet, don't read this xD It's a joke.

[Sindrener.1592]

This guy is an engi main and comes with similar extreme nerfs to other classes

Just a fast history of his posts:

"TL;DR Realistically soulbeast should die if his pet dies and should receive any debuffs when merging etc."