Boneskinner was bugged and we owe the designers an apology

[Reverielle.3972]

@ZeftheWicked.3076 said:I guess we need to test it some. That means seeing if a smaller group has issues breaking the bar because it's that overbuffed, or simply the ppl did not build for it or didn't use their cc proper when needed and it's on them..A Group of four of us today had no problems at all, and only two of us were committing any real CC to the defiance bar. There was no perceived change from when we tried as a small group a few days ago. Later on I watched as large commander-led group attempted it and they never go remotely close to breaking it, and the Boneskinner got away. But I guess usually that's the way with large/zerg groups (And why wouldn't it be? There are so many events in the game where this tactic results in success). So I guess the advice is to try it and don't advertise it; a few players that know what they're doing will have zero problems.

So, there is apparently no change to the defiance bar, it's just that the health of the creature is scaling properly that you can't really dps through it's 'looking for it's next victim phase' to the extent that it resets, and so dose the defiance bar, and it will never jump away.

[anninke.7469]

@Randulf.7614 said:

“The dusk rapidly deepened; the glades grew dark; the crackling of the fire and the wash of little waves along the rocky lake shore were the only sounds audible. The wind had dropped with the sun, and in all that vast world of branches nothing stirred. Any moment, it seemed, the woodland gods, who are to be worshipped in silence and loneliness, might stretch their mighty and terrific outlines among the trees.”

― Algernon Blackwood, The Wendigo

Off topic: Thanks for this literature tip, I read the novel and liked it very much, now I'm reading another and have several more ready.

Back on topic: We did the boneskinner yesterday in a group of three (two soulbeasts and a reaper) and had no problem at all, which actually surprised me, because I don't consider myself a good player. And when I joined a far bigger group (also yesterday) we failed, so the problem really seems to lie in number of non-CCing players.

[Dawdler.8521]

@anninke.7469 said:so the problem really seems to lie in number of non-CCing players.And decent damage dealers.

This really isnt any different from the good old champs in HoT, lords in WvW, bounties in PoF etc. 5 people can easily kill them. But when it starts to scale up and people just add numbers to the scaling with their weakkitten builds and not carrying their weight in damage and CC (or hurt overall dps by dying all over the place)... Then scaling is thrown out the window. Hell, when you solo a boss its easier to CC break them.

[Pifil.5193]

@Dawdler.8521 said:Hell, when you solo a boss its easier to CC break them.

Ain't that the truth, it's why the wyvern broodmother in Verdant Brink and the Vinetooth Prime in Auric Basin are a piece of cake with a small group. In a 5 man party only one or two need to know how to break a bar but once you scale up then the small proportion of players who actually know how to do it are swamped by the mass of people who don't know what they're doing.

I wonder how many people running around the game today even know what a break bar is?

It's funny how they put in a tutorial for the rock paper scissors mechanic but still haven't added one for break bars.

[Khisanth.2948]

@Pifil.5193 said:

@Dawdler.8521 said:Hell, when you

solo

a boss its easier to CC break them.

Ain't that the truth, it's why the wyvern broodmother in Verdant Brink and the Vinetooth Prime in Auric Basin are a piece of cake with a small group. In a 5 man party only one or two need to know how to break a bar but once you scale up then the small proportion of players who actually know how to do it are swamped by the mass of people who don't know what they're doing.

I wonder how many people running around the game today even know what a break bar is?

It's funny how they put in a tutorial for the rock paper scissors mechanic but still haven't added one for break bars.

There isn't even anything to learn for the RGB mechanic since you can pick up all colors at the same time and then the special action skills just pop up on their own. About the only thing you really need to learn from it is that the stuff they leave on the ground isn't harmful to you.

[Reverielle.3972]

@Khisanth.2948 said:

@Pifil.5193 said:

@Dawdler.8521 said:Hell, when you

solo

a boss its easier to CC break them.

Ain't that the truth, it's why the wyvern broodmother in Verdant Brink and the Vinetooth Prime in Auric Basin are a piece of cake with a small group. In a 5 man party only one or two need to know how to break a bar but once you scale up then the small proportion of players who actually know how to do it are swamped by the mass of people who don't know what they're doing.

I wonder how many people running around the game today even know what a break bar is?

It's funny how they put in a tutorial for the rock paper scissors mechanic but still haven't added one for break bars.

There isn't even anything to learn for the RGB mechanic since you can pick up all colors at the same time and then the special action skills just pop up on their own. About the only thing you really need to learn from it is that the stuff they leave on the ground isn't harmful to you.

True, though for specific fights one is having trouble with it's still handy to know, what effects what. For example, slaying Fallen and collecting their essence will give you the Spirit Nova attack for use against the Boneskinner. Luckily the ruins in the Aberrant Forest (and the portal closing event) is full of Fallen enemies, so you can easily build up your essence collection before taking on the Boneskinner.

Another tough one is the Kodan Berserker at Bear Shrine; once you get the passive buff from Svanir that gives you a chance to heal on critical hit against Fallen enemies, that Kodan becomes so much more forgiving (still watch out for the retaliation and portals opening).

[Westenev.5289]

The fight is scarier, sure, but the fight also makes me feel a little guilty since their deaths were preventable by breaking that little blue bar. Group apathy is scary...

[ugrakarma.9416]

@Westenev.5289 said:The fight is scarier, sure, but the fight also makes me feel a little guilty since their deaths were preventable by breaking that little blue bar. Group apathy is scary...

but theres a achievment if no one dies..... in sometime ppl seeking for the achiev will appear.

for while there are early players like me that unintentionally killed the pre-fix bonneskinner already got the achievment without even noticing it.. it was really like few seconds to kill him with a group of 10sh ppl.

[ugrakarma.9416]

This is the first event in GW2 that make me prone to roleplay, whem a victim is killed, i scream too "noooooooooo" in chat lolzzzzz.

[Doo Lally.8594]

@Reverielle.3972 said:

@ZeftheWicked.3076 said:I guess we need to test it some. That means seeing if a smaller group has issues breaking the bar because it's that overbuffed, or simply the ppl did not build for it or didn't use their cc proper when needed and it's on them..A Group of four of us today had no problems at all, and only two of us were committing any real CC to the defiance bar. There was no perceived change from when we tried as a small group a few days ago. Later on I watched as large commander-led group attempted it and they never go remotely close to breaking it, and the Boneskinner got away. But I guess usually that's the way with large/zerg groups (And why wouldn't it be? There are so many events in the game where this tactic results in success). So I guess the advice is to try it and don't advertise it; a few players that know what they're doing will have zero problems.

So, there is apparently no change to the defiance bar, it's just that the health of the creature is scaling properly that you can't really dps through it's 'looking for it's next victim phase' to the extent that it resets, and so dose the defiance bar, and it will never jump away.

Wholeheartedly second this - did it in a group of 4 on the first day of the map and got the achievement without thinking about it. Was running my reaper and just pumped that CC out via warhorn, shroud and GS. Small groups are the way to go.

[Kulvar.1239]

@Arden.7480 said:Fixed an issue that prevented the boneskinner's health from scaling as intended.

I went to kill Boneskinner again yesterday and it was a lot of fun now when this bug was fixed. The fight is pretty scary as promised and I could hear the screams of Vigil soldiers being dragged down somewhere...

I don't know what you find scary about the boneskinner. He's just a glorified punching bag that kills NPC. I find him cool looking, but not scary. To make it scary, I would have it chase people around the map unexpectedly, having him spawn randomly and attack players. Making it invincible, your only choice beeing fleeing or eroding its breakbar (an easy to break one) before he kills you. If you break the bar, he retreat in the shadows and find an other target. That would make it scary to me.

[Khisanth.2948]

@Kulvar.1239 said:

@Arden.7480 said:

Fixed an issue that prevented the boneskinner's health from scaling as intended.

I went to kill Boneskinner again yesterday and it was a lot of fun now when this bug was fixed. The fight is pretty scary as promised and I could hear the screams of Vigil soldiers being dragged down somewhere...

I don't know what you find scary about the boneskinner. He's just a glorified punching bag that kills NPC. I find him cool looking, but not scary. To make it scary, I would have it chase people around the map unexpectedly, having him spawn randomly and attack players. Making it invincible, your only choice beeing fleeing or eroding its breakbar (an easy to break one) before he kills you. If you break the bar, he retreat in the shadows and find an other target. That would make it scary to me.

That would just make it annoying.

[ugrakarma.9416]

@Kulvar.1239 said:

@"Arden.7480" said:

Fixed an issue that prevented the boneskinner's health from scaling as intended.

I went to kill Boneskinner again yesterday and it was a lot of fun now when this bug was fixed. The fight is pretty scary as promised and I could hear the screams of Vigil soldiers being dragged down somewhere...

I don't know what you find scary about the boneskinner. He's just a glorified punching bag that kills NPC. I find him cool looking, but not scary. To make it scary, I would have it chase people around the map unexpectedly, having him spawn randomly and attack players. Making it invincible, your only choice beeing fleeing or eroding its breakbar (an easy to break one) before he kills you. If you break the bar, he retreat in the shadows and find an other target. That would make it scary to me.

yeah would be amazing, if the "teleport to target victim" would target players and 1 hit kill in any place on the map. i imagine ppl running wild and scared full time,

[Khisanth.2948]

@ugrakarma.9416 said:

@Kulvar.1239 said:

@"Arden.7480" said:

Fixed an issue that prevented the boneskinner's health from scaling as intended.

I went to kill Boneskinner again yesterday and it was a lot of fun now when this bug was fixed. The fight is pretty scary as promised and I could hear the screams of Vigil soldiers being dragged down somewhere...

I don't know what you find scary about the boneskinner. He's just a glorified punching bag that kills NPC. I find him cool looking, but not scary. To make it scary, I would have it chase people around the map unexpectedly, having him spawn randomly and attack players. Making it invincible, your only choice beeing fleeing or eroding its breakbar (an easy to break one) before he kills you. If you break the bar, he retreat in the shadows and find an other target. That would make it scary to me.

yeah would be amazing, if the "teleport to target victim" would target players and 1 hit kill in any place on the map. i imagine ppl running wild and scared full time,

It would make a closer copy of Vinetooth Prime

It would also be repeating the same mistake they made in the Marionette fight by having the event involve people who have no interest in the event.

[Doo Lally.8594]

@Kulvar.1239 said:

@Arden.7480 said:

Fixed an issue that prevented the boneskinner's health from scaling as intended.

I went to kill Boneskinner again yesterday and it was a lot of fun now when this bug was fixed. The fight is pretty scary as promised and I could hear the screams of Vigil soldiers being dragged down somewhere...

I don't know what you find scary about the boneskinner. He's just a glorified punching bag that kills NPC. I find him cool looking, but not scary. To make it scary, I would have it chase people around the map unexpectedly, having him spawn randomly and attack players. Making it invincible, your only choice beeing fleeing or eroding its breakbar (an easy to break one) before he kills you. If you break the bar, he retreat in the shadows and find an other target. That would make it scary to me.

Why confine his teleport kill to just Bjora Marches? Make it any random map in Tyria!

Imagine it: 'Random RP'er in Divinity's Reach telling made up scary story to fellow RP'ers when suddenly CHOMP! Boneskinner snacks him down in one gulp, promptly disappearing afterwards'

That'd make a great RP storyline for the future.

Disclaimer: I simply used RP'ers for dramatic effect. No offence meant or implied. :)

[Shikaru.7618]

The way you fix this is by setting an achievement behind dealing 5000 total break bar damage to boneskinner with a reward people care about (like a random mount skin). People would learn real fast what a defiance bar is.

Or maybe they wont and instead complain that this achievement is "too hard"

[Ashen.2907]

@Arden.7480 said:Fixed an issue that prevented the boneskinner's health from scaling as intended.

I went to kill Boneskinner again yesterday and it was a lot of fun now when this bug was fixed. The fight is pretty scary as promised and I could hear the screams of Vigil soldiers being dragged down somewhere...

I think we all owe Arenanet a big apology, because the Boneskinner wasn't as hard as intended.

Just to clarify,

We owe ANet an apology because the content they produced was bugged?

[rosabrand.4738]

The only reason I log in is to try to take this boss down. First day on my neco, no problem. Over ten times on my ranger, and not once have I downed him. It's pathetic. Guess I'll go back to my other MMO.

[Ashantara.8731]

The worst part is that many players still believe that ignoring its definance bar was the way to go, because "you can kill it easily without breaking its definance bar" - that's what someone wrote in map chat after I posted links to Wiki's CC and defiance bar pages when the meta failed because of people ignoring my plea to save the use of their CC skills for the breakbar phase. Hopefully, they will learn. ;)

[Jimbru.6014]

Now if only the General Population would read this thread instead of people constantly griping about nobody CCing on the Boneskinner fight. We ARE CCing. The problem is the Boneskinner is tougher than normal and you really need the attunements to break it reliably.

[Ashantara.8731]

@Jimbru.6014 said:Now if only the General Population would read this thread instead of people constantly griping about nobody CCing on the Boneskinner fight. We ARE CCing. The problem is the Boneskinner is tougher than normal and you really need the attunements to break it reliably.

That's true, but if only 2 or 3 out of 25 to 30 people are doing anything to the defiance bar, one has to wonder. ;)

[Reverielle.3972]

@Ashantara.8731 said:

@Jimbru.6014 said:Now if only the General Population would read this thread instead of people constantly griping about nobody CCing on the Boneskinner fight. We ARE CCing. The problem is the Boneskinner is tougher than normal and you really need the attunements to break it reliably.

That's true, but if only 2 or 3 out of 25 to 30 people are doing

anything

to the defiance bar, one has to wonder. ;)

Yes, literally this is the problem. If more than just a portion of a handful of players would actively work on the defiance bar to break it, no one would have a problem. It's not that hard to break it, it's just people don't seem to care. There is nothing difficult about Defiance Bar mechanics.

It really is time something was seriously done by development to force players to learn about the defiance bar, because sadly we're at a stage where we're actively encouraging players not to join these events (or at least asking those around not to communicate map-wide that the Boneskinner event is active so fewer players come), because if players do join there is a high chance they'll not attempt to break the bar when it's teal/active, which in turn increases the chances of a failed event, which leads to negative game-play. And that goes against one of the cornerstones of social interaction that development were very vocal about regarding GW2 and these open world events and player-player interaction.

[Khisanth.2948]

@Reverielle.3972 said:

@Ashantara.8731 said:

@"Jimbru.6014" said:Now if only the General Population would read this thread instead of people constantly griping about nobody CCing on the Boneskinner fight. We ARE CCing. The problem is the Boneskinner is tougher than normal and you really need the attunements to break it reliably.

That's true, but if only 2 or 3 out of 25 to 30 people are doing

anything

to the defiance bar, one has to wonder. ;)

Yes, literally this is the problem. If more than just a portion of a handful of players would actively work on the defiance bar to break it, no one would have a problem. It's not that hard to break it, it's just people don't seem to care. There is nothing difficult about Defiance Bar mechanics.

It really is time something was seriously done by development to

force

players to learn about the defiance bar, because sadly we're at a stage where we're actively encouraging players not to join these events (or at least asking those around not to communicate map-wide that the Boneskinner event is active so fewer players come), because if players do join there is a high chance they'll not attempt to break the bar when it's teal/active, which in turn increases the chances of a failed event, which leads to negative game-play. And that goes against one of the cornerstones of social interaction that development were very vocal about regarding GW2 and these open world events and player-player interaction.

You are not entirely wrong but ANet is also leaning too hard on defiance bars as "mechanic". It is okay for some enemies to have "break defiance bar" as their mechanic but when everything is that it is very boring.

[Reverielle.3972]

@Khisanth.2948 said:

@Reverielle.3972 said:

@Ashantara.8731 said:

@"Jimbru.6014" said:Now if only the General Population would read this thread instead of people constantly griping about nobody CCing on the Boneskinner fight. We ARE CCing. The problem is the Boneskinner is tougher than normal and you really need the attunements to break it reliably.

That's true, but if only 2 or 3 out of 25 to 30 people are doing

anything

to the defiance bar, one has to wonder. ;)

Yes, literally this is the problem. If more than just a portion of a handful of players would actively work on the defiance bar to break it, no one would have a problem. It's not that hard to break it, it's just people don't seem to care. There is nothing difficult about Defiance Bar mechanics.

It really is time something was seriously done by development to

force

players to learn about the defiance bar, because sadly we're at a stage where we're actively encouraging players not to join these events (or at least asking those around not to communicate map-wide that the Boneskinner event is active so fewer players come), because if players do join there is a high chance they'll not attempt to break the bar when it's teal/active, which in turn increases the chances of a failed event, which leads to negative game-play. And that goes against one of the cornerstones of social interaction that development were very vocal about regarding GW2 and these open world events and player-player interaction.

You are not entirely wrong but ANet is also leaning too hard on defiance bars as "mechanic". It is okay for some enemies to have "break defiance bar" as their mechanic but when everything is that it is very boring.

Yes, they do. But I guess in Anet's case you work with what you've got. However saying that, look at many of the misleading responses in this thread - and complaints in-game - about the Boneskinner and it's defiance bar. They clearly highlight that many players still have no idea about defiance bars. I think there needs to be some enemies that have Defiance Bars, and if we don't break them when they become active, everyone (players) dies. Make the consequences more significant, then people will learn. Those that can't be bothered to learn about the game it's mechanics don't really have any basis for complaint and should be struggling with content.

At the end of the day the fault lies with no one but ourselves (the players). CCing really is very easy, and there is a great overview of it and how it works on the official wiki. It's not that hard to equip a CC utility/weapon or two on your bar for situations that warrant its use. It's baffling really why players just can't be bothered to do that, but can be bothered to come here to the forums and complain about it; something that takes a lot more effort.

[Randulf.7614]

Arent you meant to build up your mastery and use that to break it? I mean regular cc isnt enough - I bring tons of hard cc and it barely registers on it on any size group. I assumed it then needed the relevant stacked t2 mastery skill. Same as the strike missions need the skill. Bringing cc isn't the full story