Condition Damage indirectly buffed to become the strongest damage type in competitive settings.

[Yasai.3549]

What happens when yu nerf sustain without actually reducing Condition damage itself?

This is the state of competitive modes right now, both WvW and PvP.

Power being nerfed is a good thing.No one liked being spiked by huge bursts and being instantly downed.

Now Condi is creeping back up and totally destroying anything that either :

a) can't kill them fast enoughb) can't sustain

option b right now is just gone, because Anet nerfed all sorts of sustain really hard, including sustain traits in the past that wasn't overpowered or anything.option a is also gone now because Power got nerfed.

These two factors combined just plays right into Condition builds' favour, and the worst part is most condition builds right now are already bunker builds.

Please revert or buff sustain. I don't want to see everyone just convert to OP Condition builds.

[TrollingDemigod.3041]

I'm reading your topic and I'm like: Yup, you're right about condi becoming dominant because they weren't touched at all.Then your last sentence is "revert or buff sustain"? Instead of asking to nerf conditions to proper level, you ask to revert changes or even buff sustain? What?If that would happen, then what was the point of the whole balance patch in the first place to reduce powercreep? Bruh? What the?My prediction is that: Mirage, Thief, DH, Necro and even maybe Rev will be dominant condi classes in WvW for the time being.As long as there is trailblazer and dire in WvW, the condi classes won't be properly balanced, since they're giving offense and defense at the same time, which is bad in long run.

[aspirine.6852]

@"TrollingDemigod.3041" said:I'm reading your topic and I'm like: Yup, you're right about condi becoming dominant because they weren't touched at all.Then your last sentence is "revert or buff sustain"? Instead of asking to nerf conditions to proper level, you ask to revert changes or even buff sustain? What?If that would happen, then what was the point of the whole balance patch in the first place to reduce powercreep? Bruh? What the?My prediction is that: Mirage, Thief, DH, Necro and even maybe Rev will be dominant condi classes in WvW for the time being.As long as there is trailblazer and dire in WvW, the condi classes won't be properly balanced, since they're giving offense and defense at the same time, which is bad in long run.

From what I have seen this evening Rev and Necro are pretty solid with condi.

[Shroud.2307]

ANet stated long before the patch went live that they planned to do more frequent balance passes to bring things in line. This means bigger/more in depth patches on a more regular schedule which means things like this, Condition Damage, was probably left alone to see how it would perform before giving further updates in the future. I'm sure the same will be done for skills/traits/utilities that aren't performing as ANet thought they might. Maybe X skill had too much damage removed and will get some/all of it's damage back in a future update. Or maybe Y trait didn't get enough of an internal cooldown increase and will see that fixed later on.

Y'all need to relax with these complaints. It's always going to be hectic after a balance patch but after one like this with over 1000 changes I'm amazed so many thought nothing would be problematic. If anything, I think this patch was done very well and a lot of things ( not all ) have been adjusted very nicely.

Chill and wait a while until the next patch. I'm sure other things will get the attention they need by then. It won't be the end of the world if certain classes have obnoxious condition builds for a little while.

[ScionKai.4907]

@"SpellOfIniquity.1780" said:ANet stated long before the patch went live that they planned to do more frequent balance passes to bring things in line.

Many people realize this, but we've heard this many times before, only to see balance patches come out which create terrible metas and then we wait 6 months to over a year to see the next balance patch.A few years ago they made a huge promise to do frequent balance patches... they did 2, and then after that? Crickets...Also the most frustrating part about this is people saw the problem with the balance patch preview notes right away and said this was going to be a condi meta that bored everyone out of playing, yet here we are.3 tier WvW will be here by summertime.

[Stand The Wall.6987]

@ScionKai.4907 said:snips

hellopls make moar vidscheers

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

Just reduce the coefficients on Condi damage per stack in competitive modes. I.e. a full damage burn tick is 400 per stack instead of the roughly 800 per stack.

[XenesisII.1540]

I seem to be getting much more immobilized and condi dumped today.... like back in the day when condi was changed to stacks... They nerfed damage out of cc's but they didn't touch the one cc that can be covered and robs you of your dodge!

[lodjur.1284]

Eh meta felt way better than last patch.

I encountered maybe 20%ish condi dmg players (rough estimate), last patch I encountered them notably less.

There's never been a condi meta, I very much doubt this will be one. At most maybe 1/3rd of damage players will be condi based.

So I equipped a cleansing sigil and after that I had absolutely no issues with condis (previous to this I only had 1 clear on a 30 sec cd and a few tiny pieces of resistance in my build).

Struggling against condi really is a l2p (or maybe rather l2build) issue.

[DeadlySynz.3471]

@Lan Deathrider.5910 said:Just reduce the coefficients on Condi damage per stack in competitive modes. I.e. a full damage burn tick is 400 per stack instead of the roughly 800 per stack.

This can't happen as long as any type of condition cleans exists. If they cut the damage by that much, they need to remove most if not all cleanses in the game otherwise condition damage will be nowhere even remotely close to power.

Condition damage can't be tinkered with, it would have to be completely reworked from the ground up. This is part of the reason why nerf to damage should never have gone through because they can't simply do the same to condition without pushing some classes out of WvW all together. Trailerblazer isn't even a problem either; people who used that gear were doing it wrong (or at least in the old meta they were). It was always much more effective to dump as much condition on someone as quickly as possible, because it would often drop the player in the barrage before they could react.

Like someone else had mentioned, the time in between patches (even when they say they do them more frequently) is too long. Likely they will get to a point after doing 2-3 patches then call it quits and the builds will sit for over a year before they even touch them again. But players complained about this without actually thinking about what the consequences were (as per usual here), so they're just going to have to eat it until such time. Possibly even dealing with the fact this could be it.

[Dawdler.8521]

@Lan Deathrider.5910 said:Just reduce the coefficients on Condi damage per stack in competitive modes. I.e. a full damage burn tick is 400 per stack instead of the roughly 800 per stack.A full burst at point blank range for max damage from my engineer blowtorch would then not even overcome a warriors passive heal, while they in turn would autoattack harder in 2 seconds than the condi I do over 20 seconds.

For balance!

PS: has there been any condi mirages dodging once out of the woodworks yet or are they still MIA?

[Eramonster.2718]

I believe many foresee condi will be indirectly buffed by this patch. Will it be too powerful, we shall see. The nerf in power is huge this time, enough to shift classes and builds in PvP/WvW. Will wait till its stabilized.

With one answered, the next question is will condi be adjusted as well(?) After monitoring and fine-tuning the recent changes. As second half of the patch. Question everything :wink:.

[Yasai.3549]

@Eramonster.2718 said:

With one answered, the next question is will condi be adjusted as well(?) After monitoring and fine-tuning the recent changes. As second half of the patch. Question everything :wink:.

Don't count on it.Considering the backlash, these Devs would be too scared to do anything and go into their secret bombshelters to wait out the aftermath.

And if they still have a playerbase left, proceed to repeat another disaster.

[Eramonster.2718]

Gotta wait and see. That said with the changes, some of my burst build (dh, slb etc) will probably need to improvise.

Haven't got the time to fully explore everyhthing yet but do think the change is interesting, so far. Refreshing at least, planning to try new stuff like Grieving stats etc and see how things go. :smile:

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

@DeadlySynz.3471 said:

@Lan Deathrider.5910 said:Just reduce the coefficients on Condi damage per stack in competitive modes. I.e. a full damage burn tick is 400 per stack instead of the roughly 800 per stack.

This can't happen as long as any type of condition cleans exists. If they cut the damage by that much, they need to remove most if not all cleanses in the game otherwise condition damage will be nowhere even remotely close to power.

Condition damage can't be tinkered with, it would have to be completely reworked from the ground up. This is part of the reason why nerf to damage should never have gone through because they can't simply do the same to condition without pushing some classes out of WvW all together. Trailerblazer isn't even a problem either; people who used that gear were doing it wrong (or at least in the old meta they were). It was always much more effective to dump as much condition on someone as quickly as possible, because it would often drop the player in the barrage before they could react.

Like someone else had mentioned, the time in between patches (even when they say they do them more frequently) is too long. Likely they will get to a point after doing 2-3 patches then call it quits and the builds will sit for over a year before they even touch them again. But players complained about this without actually thinking about what the consequences were (as per usual here), so they're just going to have to eat it until such time. Possibly even dealing with the fact this could be it.

@Dawdler.8521 said:

@Lan Deathrider.5910 said:Just reduce the coefficients on Condi damage per stack in competitive modes. I.e. a full damage burn tick is 400 per stack instead of the roughly 800 per stack.A full burst at point blank range for max damage from my engineer blowtorch would then not even overcome a warriors passive heal, while they in turn would autoattack harder in 2 seconds than the condi I do over 20 seconds.

For balance!

PS: has there been any condi mirages dodging once out of the woodworks yet or are they still MIA?

Then make it a 600 tick and not a 800 tick. Right now condi deals too much damage, so either pick fewer stacks, shorter durations, or lower coefficients. The end result is going to be the same. Condi cleanses? Bring cover conditions, that is why they exist and why Burn DH is so much stronger than Burnbrand,

[Junkpile.7439]

They probably will just lower condi damage overal so even more builds1 get ruined.

[schloumou.3982]

Do you guys actually read patchnotes? Condi skills and traits got adjusted too. How about you name a build that you think is overperforming and what skill does to much damage or what makes reapplication to fast or something. It's kinda hard to take these complains serious tbh.

[Dawdler.8521]

@Lan Deathrider.5910 said:Right now condi deals too much damage, so either pick fewer stacks, shorter durations, or lower coefficients.Anet literally picked all those options for condi this patch.

[Nebilim.5127]

@schloumou.3982 said:Do you guys actually read patchnotes? Condi skills and traits got adjusted too. How about you name a build that you think is overperforming and what skill does to much damage or what makes reapplication to fast or something. It's kinda hard to take these complains serious tbh.

I think these are just power classes finally having that feel that they have to sacrifice something on their greedy 1 shot build to survive. There is so much condi cleanse in the game and those were barely touched either even though condi still had quite a bunch of nerfs to burning and condi duration across the patch. The only condi class that was completely oppressive lost most of the boon corrupts(scourge) and mirage was reduced to one dodge. Condi venom thief also took a pretty big hit on their condi traits.

[Loffels.5934]

@DeadlySynz.3471 said:

@Lan Deathrider.5910 said:Just reduce the coefficients on Condi damage per stack in competitive modes. I.e. a full damage burn tick is 400 per stack instead of the roughly 800 per stack.

This can't happen as long as any type of condition cleans exists. If they cut the damage by that much, they need to remove most if not all cleanses in the game otherwise condition damage will be nowhere even remotely close to power.

Condition damage can't be tinkered with, it would have to be completely reworked from the ground up. This is part of the reason why nerf to damage should never have gone through because they can't simply do the same to condition without pushing some classes out of WvW all together. Trailerblazer isn't even a problem either; people who used that gear were doing it wrong (or at least in the old meta they were). It was always much more effective to dump as much condition on someone as quickly as possible, because it would often drop the player in the barrage before they could react.

Like someone else had mentioned, the time in between patches (even when they say they do them more frequently) is too long. Likely they will get to a point after doing 2-3 patches then call it quits and the builds will sit for over a year before they even touch them again. But players complained about this without actually thinking about what the consequences were (as per usual here), so they're just going to have to eat it until such time. Possibly even dealing with the fact this could be it.

You can absolutely adjust Condition Damage, just like any other coefficient, which they've already done in the past.

A condition cleanse is a full clear, so your whole point about damage is literally moot. Regardless if a condition has 1 second left, 5 seconds left, or 10 seconds or does 10 damage, 100 damage, or 1000 damage.... it's going to be cleared, full stop. It doesn't take any of that stuff into account and acts merely as an IF/THEN statement.

IF conditions THEN cleanse, full stop.

Recent nerfs hit Cooldowns, removed damage from all hard CC skills, and nerfed heals which in effect removed a shit ton of sustain from most. People are switching to Condi due to this and the fact that Condi coefficients were left untouched.

I honestly suspect ANet did this on purpose because they didn't want to gut Condi along with Power due to not fully knowing how this would change things. So I fully believe they are using this patch for data collection to test against previous data they had on these builds. It would easily show them the before and after of Power builds and see exactly how bad they fell which they can use that data to appropriately adjust Condi damage along with it.

As mentioned by them in their patch notes:

Condition damage reductions are a bit less math-y, but we’re continuing to push conditions toward less burst potential by reducing the number of stacks and extending durations where it makes sense. Some of this is handled on the skill level, and we’re also making heavy reductions to traits that apply conditions on hit, on crit, or on other conditions being applied.

[Vova.2640]

Condi dmg will not be a thing as long as scrappers and tempests are around.Even after this patch, power dmg is still far superior. condi dmg just doesnt spike hard enough to generate downs.

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

@Dawdler.8521 said:

@Lan Deathrider.5910 said:Right now condi deals too much damage, so either pick fewer stacks, shorter durations, or lower coefficients.Anet

literally

picked all those options for condi

this patch

.

And yet 8k burn ticks still exists. They were not even handed with these changes unlike with power damage. What they should have done is not touch the number of stacks or durations and just changed the coefficients from Condition Damage.

[God.2708]

@Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

@Dawdler.8521 said:

@Lan Deathrider.5910 said:Right now condi deals too much damage, so either pick fewer stacks, shorter durations, or lower coefficients.Anet

literally

picked all those options for condi

this patch

.

And yet 8k burn ticks still exists. They were not even handed with these changes unlike with power damage. What they should have done is not touch the number of stacks or durations and just changed the coefficients from Condition Damage.

Have you considered cleansing them? Or maybe using that boon that makes condi's do absolutely nothing?

Funny story. I took 9 random players out 60 minutes into patch against a group of 30+ that was clearly running almost pure condi builds. I ended up headlong into them and they didn't even drop our hp bars below 90% because we just stood in our courage tome 4s and rotated them repeatedly. Lasted almost 40s in a 9v30 till they all fell over from their supports CDs being gone.

If you think condi is meta in anything larger than a 2v2 you need to learn to play. It at best has gained some token spots in squad to augment power damage.

[Virdo.1540]

u now there is stuff that helps with making conditions weaker

like less condi-(duration)bufffood, cleanses, resistance...

[Dawdler.8521]

@Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

@Dawdler.8521 said:

@Lan Deathrider.5910 said:Right now condi deals too much damage, so either pick fewer stacks, shorter durations, or lower coefficients.Anet

literally

picked all those options for condi

this patch

.

And yet 8k burn ticks still exists. They were not even handed with these changes unlike with power damage. What they should have done is not touch the number of stacks or durations and just changed the coefficients from Condition Damage.Which just shows its a problem with specific skills, not condi dmg in general.

Or does a condi thief dump down 8k burn ticks? In fact... Does anyone do that outside of a very specific class on very specific builds?