If you're complaining about LR Ele the problem is your play

[Poelala.2830]

LR ele has almost no reliable cleanse, which means not only do condition builds have no problem with it, but that also means builds with reliable blind/chill or any attrition condition application have an easy time with LR ele. All viable classes fit into those two categories.

If you are a guardian, play fireband. Mesmer, play condition. Ranger, play intelligently. Thief, play condi. Rev, condi. Engineer, play anything.

It isn't hard to beat a class with not only no real condition defense, but also no real stability application. If ele loses LR, it has absolutely nothing left- no defense OR offense. Ele also has no reveal or stealth, so classes with stealth capabilities (thief, mesmer, engineer, ranger) should have no problem with it.

If you need tips on how to beat your local LR ele, ask right here on this post.

[Stand The Wall.6987]

@Poelala.2830 said:All viable classes fit into those two categories.

huh

[Tharan.9085]

@Poelala.2830 said:

Ranger, play intelligently.AHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

[Aktium.9506]

I'm pretty sure people aren't complaining about LR on Ele in 1v1 situations. I think it's more the part where they bring copious amounts of CC to teamfights to the point where people get stuck in perma CC where stunbreaks and single stack stability aren't gonna help while the enemy team piles up on them and uses them as DPS golems. Ele is basically the guy that holds some nerd's arms while you beat him now.

I have no say in this tho. Since I play core condi nec and I live for the rare moments where the stars line up and I get to fear someone from 100 to 0.

[Stallic.2397]

@Aktium.9506 said:I'm pretty sure people aren't complaining about LR on Ele in 1v1 situations. I think it's more the part where they bring copious amounts of CC to teamfights to the point where people get stuck in perma CC where stunbreaks and single stack stability aren't gonna help while the enemy team piles up on them and uses them as DPS golems. Ele is basically the guy that holds some nerd's arms while you beat him now.

I have no say in this tho. Since I play core condi nec and I live for the rare moments where the stars line up and I get to fear someone from 100 to 0.

There's ways to stop CC chaining from happening without solely nerfing LR or Ele.

Those who complain about LR are not looking at the game globally. They're just mad someone beat them in a fight

[aymnad.9023]

you might want to explain… How are low stab and stealth helping to be good against this again ?Edit : I do not have anything special in favor or against this build. I just found those arguments weird (ranger main if you want to know :) )

[Tayga.3192]

Longbow ranger is pretty good against it 1v1 if capturing the node is not the top priority.

Necro is just hard countered by it lol, I was destroying them in 2v2 and I never really play LR weaver.

Otherwise it should not be able to crit OR it should only work on interrupts. Look at PI on thief and PB on mesmer.

[Bast.7253]

The problem is the cc and the fact that it takes up a whole point. But it’s not just lightning rod weaver, it’s tempest in general and the massive overload combined with constant cripple, immobilize, shocking aura, focus skills, chilled. If you have those plus something naturally tanky to begin with like a core necro, along with the annoying symbol brand, you’re pretty much going to have to just avoid them. Or try to split them, but even that is difficult to do.

[Exedore.6320]

"You guys suck. Paper kicks my ass"

• Rock.

So basically scissors is totally screwed then. Sorry, that doesn't make for a fun game and is a terrible counterargument.

[Crozame.4098]

fix pet: no its l2p. There are millions of ways to negate pet dmg.fix LR: no, its l2p issue.fix anything: no, its ;2p issue.

Then dont fix anything, everything is fine

[Poelala.2830]

@"Exedore.6320" said:"You guys suck. Paper kicks my kitten"

• Rock.

So basically scissors is totally screwed then. Sorry, that doesn't make for a fun game and is a terrible counterargument.

The thing with strawmanning is that... yeah... they are usually terrible arguments.

[Poelala.2830]

@"cptaylor.2670" said:The problem is the cc and the fact that it takes up a whole point. But it’s not just lightning rod weaver, it’s tempest in general and the massive overload combined with constant cripple, immobilize, shocking aura, focus skills, chilled. If you have those plus something naturally tanky to begin with like a core necro, along with the annoying symbol brand, you’re pretty much going to have to just avoid them. Or try to split them, but even that is difficult to do.

Weaver doesn’t have overloads and cannot support anyone, barely even themselves. The way to kill weaver is to kite. Stay off-mode for a few seconds and boom ele is dead

[Exedore.6320]

@Poelala.2830 said:

@"Exedore.6320" said:"You guys suck. Paper kicks my kitten"

• Rock.

So basically scissors is totally screwed then. Sorry, that doesn't make for a fun game and is a terrible counterargument.

The thing with strawmanning is that... yeah... they are usually terrible arguments.

I guess you didn't comprehend that my post was a mockery of yours (nor does it fit the definition of a strawman). Here, let me paraphrase your post with less sarcasm: "Lightning Rod ele is fine because it loses to condi damage builds. L2P."

Just because a build has some weaknesses does not mean that it's fine. Lightning rod builds are incredibly un-fun to play against, since it's effectively a fairly sturdy build with a lot of CC and damage (though there are burst damage variants). The entire point of the recent changes is to prevent builds from having all of that, especially a heavy overlap of CC and damage. I've come across many builds which rely on lightning rod and most are not any weaker to conditions than an average build.

[Stand The Wall.6987]

what this boils down to is someone defending their main.

[Kuma.1503]

Is LR ele specifically a problem in top level play? I haven't had any issue with them as of yet. Tornado is a nuisance, but I've also had plenty of opportunities where I was able to land a burst on an ele in Nado since they're unable to dodge. Outside of that, they're running air, so they're either missing the sustain of water or the boons (especially prot) from arcane, so they're not difficult to kill.

The problem with LR ele seems to come from a place of "it's annoying" moreso than an issue of it being too strong.

[felincyriac.5981]

way too disruptive in team fights, needs to be looked at.

[Bast.7253]

Lol I just fought a core ele that had me locked down the whole fight. So much damage! Then tornado with a seemingly 20 second cooldown. I didn’t realize core could do that much damage and have that much sustain. Dagger/dagger I think? Idk. I always heard celestial dagger was fun back in the day. Is it still a thing?

[Leonidrex.5649]

@Poelala.2830Mesmer mains : mesmer is shit lolOP : NoW mEsMeR cAnT sPaM iNvUlNs 4EvEr

Other people : LR is bullshitOP : NOO ITS FINE L2P REEE

[youle.5824]

Lightning rod with tornado is currently pretty cancer in 1v1.

[Kuma.1503]

@youle.5824 said:Lightning rod with tornado is currently pretty cancer in 1v1.

It's annoying, but it's also risky. One of my favorite ways to counter nado is by giving myself stab, and then bursting hard into it. Ele is pretty squishy regardless of build when they're unable to evade or re-sustain,.

If I don't have good access to stab, I've also had good success shutting them down with immob. Hold them still then burst.

Failing that, you can break stun and use any mobility you might have to gain some distance. If you've got ranged pressure, you can counter it with that. Just watch out for skill 5.

If your build somehow lacks access to all of these... Idk, have fun doing your best impression of a rag doll because you're going for a ride, lol.

`

[Shao.7236]

It's pretty misleading, people have two evades and there's 5 CC's to avoid without counting Tornado, it's clear that without Stability to counter it can dominate any fights because Weakness and preventing any skill to be used while doing damage is a lot in one place.

Reducing damage on LR to make others worth something rather than just roll everything is the better solution.

[storm.3120]

The same person say having 2 evades means PERMA INVULNERABILITY :joy:

[youle.5824]

@Kuma.1503 said:

@youle.5824 said:Lightning rod with tornado is currently pretty cancer in 1v1.

It's annoying, but it's also risky. One of my favorite ways to counter nado is by giving myself stab, and then bursting hard into it. Ele is pretty squishy regardless of build when they're unable to evade or re-sustain,.

If I don't have good access to stab, I've also had good success shutting them down with immob. Hold them still then burst.

Failing that, you can break stun and use any mobility you might have to gain some distance. If you've got ranged pressure, you can counter it with that. Just watch out for skill 5.

If your build somehow lacks access to all of these... Idk, have fun doing your best impression of a rag doll because you're going for a ride, lol.

`

All these counter and stab corrupt are only possible vs average and below eles, good one pop tornado on top of you after waiting for your stunbreaks to be poped, this way you're cc chained from start to end of tornado and end up 100-0 hp with LR dmg

[youle.5824]

Any ele that start tornado from range is obviously at heavy risk to be countered or kited

[Arheundel.6451]

@Leonidrex.5649 said:@"Poelala.2830"Mesmer mains : mesmer is kitten lolOP : NoW mEsMeR cAnT sPaM iNvUlNs 4EvEr

Other people : LR is kittenOP : NOO ITS FINE L2P REEE

There is no ..meta LR ele...no LR ele used in AT or monthly AT..no roaming LR eles in wvw either...and not even in PvE..all we have is some soloq ragefest ...go as far as complaining about tornado, a clear indication of the skill level involved.

By comparison we had carrion mirage for years, a roaming plague for years too. used in AT and other tournaments...went as far as being banned from official tournaments...nobody but mesmer in this game ever seen an entire traitline banned from tournaments.

It's a disgrace even trying to compare mesmer to ele...truly a disgrace, LR ele is pretty hard to pull off, not always rewarding and simply not worth running outside soloq meme experiences.

Never was ele gameplay considered "degenerate" by the devs themselves...only mesmer

With all that said and done...yeah go on and delete LR and tornado, it won't affect the class that much anyway, still not broken overperforming like mesmer before...so nothing to lose here but...silver/bronze will remain in silver/bronze regardless of what get nerfed , let's all remember that