Why the player quality on pvp is so low on gw2?

[DonNee.5128]

@Fueki.4753 said:

@bluri.2653 said:The balance atm is catered to the average and look where it got us.There is literally nothing catered towards the average.

Massive condi bombs that average players have no hope to avoid?Arenanet doubling down on CC effectiveness when most people already struggled with the overabundance of CC?Runaway (Stealth, Teleport etc) gets worse, despite the majority having disdain for it?Bunker builds that can't be taken down with less then 3 or 4 people?

Arenanet made everything worse for the average.The changes literally benefit noone, it's just

changes for the sake of changes.

what u say is exactly why it catered to the average'condi bombs' and these bunkers builds are perfect for the average u can play with 1 hand tooi can finally outplay all these top players with my mender scourge or guard, not sure if there ever was a time in gw2 pvp where this was the case

[Multicolorhipster.9751]

@bluri.2653 said:Sorry to burst both of your bubbles but the game has not been this dumbed down ever, its probably worse than bunker chrono in early HoT.

Don't worry. My bubble is not bursted. This is exactly what I was trying to say.

Every gank setup, moa spikes, portal plays, rotations are long gone. 1v1ers unable to kill each other, this is what we have now. You both obviously dont play organised etc so u dont understand

I don't play organized but I am the top Unranked player in NA.I play 1-3 games a day on most days of the week so I understand the struggle.I am also building a case against a famous wintrader so I watch a lot of organized tournaments in the process

[Shiyo.3578]

@bluri.2653 said:

@Multicolorhipster.9751 said:

@Fueki.4753 said:

@Multicolorhipster.9751 said:The balance atm is catered to the average and look where it got us lmao.There is literally nothing catered towards the average.

Massive condi bombs that average players have no hope to avoid?Arenanet doubling down on CC effectiveness when most people already struggled with the overabundance of CC?Runaway (Stealth, Teleport etc) gets worse, despite the majority having disdain for it?Bunker builds that can't be taken down with less then 3 or 4 people?

Arenanet made everything worse for the average.The changes literally benefit noone, it's just

changes for the sake of changes.

yes I agree completely. It wasn't me who said that I was just quoting that person.

I haven't looked into a whole lot, but it be like that now. I too have resorted to playing a CC-spam bunker build that can sometimes take 3 people to deal with. Usually when there's new/average people on the other team that don't know how to deal with it, that's when it takes a bunch of people to kill you or chase you off point.

So yes I agree it is not catered to those players either. Honestly they're usually the first ones to say: "Wow, forget this clown fiesta i'm out."

Sorry to burst both of your bubbles but the game has not been this dumbed down ever, its probably worse than bunker chrono in early HoT.

Every gank setup, moa spikes, portal plays, rotations are long gone. 1v1ers unable to kill each other, this is what we have now. You both obviously dont play organised etc so u dont understand

It's funny because, in their attempt to dumb down the game for casuals/new players to get into, they actually created the worst possible experience for casuals/new players to get into. More new players quit over AOE condi/symbol spam than stay because it's "fun".

It even pushes away "Big" streamers which would bring in a LOT of new players. They simply get tired of the AOE spam and give up. Example: https://www.twitch.tv/summit1g/clip/ObeseOilyToadTheRinger

The current state of the game is harmful for it's growth and something needs to be done about it ASAP for PvP not to disappear entirely

**FIX AOE CONDI/SYMBOL SPAM SO YOUR GAME GROWS AND GETS NEW PLAYERS. WITHOUT NEW PLAYERS THE GAME EVENTUALLY STAGNATES UNTIL EVERYONE QUITS AND THERE IS NO ONE LEFT

[Psycoprophet.8107]

Just let it die already, with a lot of its community mentality and with these devs lol games not gonna pull itself out of its downward spiral. Just play it if u still enjoy it and move on when u don't, had great potential but was never realized and was squandered away by the devs, meh it happens with games.

[felix.2386]

@Shiyo.3578 said:

@bluri.2653 said:

@Multicolorhipster.9751 said:

@Fueki.4753 said:

@Multicolorhipster.9751 said:The balance atm is catered to the average and look where it got us lmao.There is literally nothing catered towards the average.

Massive condi bombs that average players have no hope to avoid?Arenanet doubling down on CC effectiveness when most people already struggled with the overabundance of CC?Runaway (Stealth, Teleport etc) gets worse, despite the majority having disdain for it?Bunker builds that can't be taken down with less then 3 or 4 people?

Arenanet made everything worse for the average.The changes literally benefit noone, it's just

changes for the sake of changes.

yes I agree completely. It wasn't me who said that I was just quoting that person.

I haven't looked into a whole lot, but it be like that now. I too have resorted to playing a CC-spam bunker build that can sometimes take 3 people to deal with. Usually when there's new/average people on the other team that don't know how to deal with it, that's when it takes a bunch of people to kill you or chase you off point.

So yes I agree it is not catered to those players either. Honestly they're usually the first ones to say: "Wow, forget this clown fiesta i'm out."

Sorry to burst both of your bubbles but the game has not been this dumbed down ever, its probably worse than bunker chrono in early HoT.

Every gank setup, moa spikes, portal plays, rotations are long gone. 1v1ers unable to kill each other, this is what we have now. You both obviously dont play organised etc so u dont understand

It's funny because, in their attempt to dumb down the game for casuals/new players to get into, they actually created the worst possible experience for casuals/new players to get into. More new players quit over AOE condi/symbol spam than stay because it's "fun".

It even pushes away "Big" streamers which would bring in a LOT of new players. They simply get tired of the AOE spam and give up. Example:

https://www.twitch.tv/summit1g/clip/ObeseOilyToadTheRinger

The current state of the game is harmful for it's growth and something needs to be done about it ASAP for PvP not to disappear entirely

**FIX AOE CONDI/SYMBOL SPAM SO YOUR GAME GROWS AND GETS NEW PLAYERS. WITHOUT NEW PLAYERS THE GAME EVENTUALLY STAGNATES UNTIL EVERYONE QUITS AND THERE IS NO ONE LEFT

yoo that clip is funny AF...they really went all out with the AoE spamming since HoT

[TrollingDemigod.3041]

@felix.2386 said:

@Shiyo.3578 said:

@bluri.2653 said:

@Multicolorhipster.9751 said:

@Fueki.4753 said:

@Multicolorhipster.9751 said:The balance atm is catered to the average and look where it got us lmao.There is literally nothing catered towards the average.

Massive condi bombs that average players have no hope to avoid?Arenanet doubling down on CC effectiveness when most people already struggled with the overabundance of CC?Runaway (Stealth, Teleport etc) gets worse, despite the majority having disdain for it?Bunker builds that can't be taken down with less then 3 or 4 people?

Arenanet made everything worse for the average.The changes literally benefit noone, it's just

changes for the sake of changes.

yes I agree completely. It wasn't me who said that I was just quoting that person.

I haven't looked into a whole lot, but it be like that now. I too have resorted to playing a CC-spam bunker build that can sometimes take 3 people to deal with. Usually when there's new/average people on the other team that don't know how to deal with it, that's when it takes a bunch of people to kill you or chase you off point.

So yes I agree it is not catered to those players either. Honestly they're usually the first ones to say: "Wow, forget this clown fiesta i'm out."

Sorry to burst both of your bubbles but the game has not been this dumbed down ever, its probably worse than bunker chrono in early HoT.

Every gank setup, moa spikes, portal plays, rotations are long gone. 1v1ers unable to kill each other, this is what we have now. You both obviously dont play organised etc so u dont understand

It's funny because, in their attempt to dumb down the game for casuals/new players to get into, they actually created the worst possible experience for casuals/new players to get into. More new players quit over AOE condi/symbol spam than stay because it's "fun".

It even pushes away "Big" streamers which would bring in a LOT of new players. They simply get tired of the AOE spam and give up. Example:

https://www.twitch.tv/summit1g/clip/ObeseOilyToadTheRinger

The current state of the game is harmful for it's growth and something needs to be done about it ASAP for PvP not to disappear entirely

**FIX AOE CONDI/SYMBOL SPAM SO YOUR GAME GROWS AND GETS NEW PLAYERS. WITHOUT NEW PLAYERS THE GAME EVENTUALLY STAGNATES UNTIL EVERYONE QUITS AND THERE IS NO ONE LEFT

yoo that clip is funny AF...they really went all out with the AoE spamming since HoT

Imagine what will they bring in next x-pack. I was really amazed when they've made something more broken than Chronomancer like Firebrand or Mirage or whatever.It'll be fun for sure! /s

[ledernierrempart.6871]

@Jasonbdj.4021 said:Balancing is a joke, anet balancing team needs replacing.

they need to read the forum and listen to players with good arguments instead of either the casual mass or the top players who most of the time only care about winning instead of improving the game.They trashing random skills and killing off functions that are not used by meta, we have --Easy spammable engigrenade kit is literally that, spam all the buttons until they are all on CD. a bit like photonforge to some extent.-Dumb core nerco with lich (why hasn't lich been touched?)core necro or not. the lich is a problem. but some famous streamer said to CMC that its alright because It Is CoUnTeRaBlE...-Fire guard that fart out stacks of burns faster then you can clear just by dancing doing silly amount of damage.fire D/D elementalist with condi burn build deal less than fire guard while having less sustain.

Last update example --Killed rev that I believe just needed damage lowering but got trashed instead.-Nerco wells and sig got completely trashed along with a new trashy trait for no reason which are not used by dumb core nerco.completely agree. wells did not need any changes. well builds were good without being op by any means unless you were using that rune that gave celerity upon using wells.just trash the rune instead.

Fingers cross for Ashes of Creation as this is just a sinking ship. I've played since gw1.... anet we knew has died along with the passion to grow this game.ashe of creation wont have a better combat gaemplay than GW2. they are struggling to know what they want and already changed their battle system 2 times.and it is a sub fee MMORPG. hard pass.gw2 was already a sinking ship a little bit before HOT and then started to sank again when ESL stopped some time after HOT. it is the constant arrival of new players and the lack of good MMORPG that kept gw2 alive. it is still a nice MMORPG even today but it struggle to evolve and each time they try something new it either fail or the mass casual players rant (or a few old veteran like in WvW who just want to play the same game over and over while opposed to the slightess change) about it until it got taken out. the new living story is great tho. and it seems that the story is getting better and better.

The mistake on the nerco balance update is shocking and they fixed it by killing it further, part that didn't need to be touched at the first place.i don't know who they got the feedback from.

[Widmo.3186]

Lack of any proper updates, balance is shitter than ever, zero content, ANet doesnt care about pvp at all, meta is boring etc etcWho would want to hold same 3 stupid points over 8 years? Yes, there are moba games like LoL that have same map for X years, but there are tons of items, multiple updates, diveristy of gameplay etc, so you dont get bored.Sure, spvp was fun for some time, but its like eating pizza. You eat it one day, its amazing. Second day, its not bad too. But eat it for a month, you gonna vomit just from looking at it. And ANet aint doing anything to make it any more fun, or add any diversity or anything.Imo what really killed this mode is PoF. They added so many unbalanced things in one expansion that its unbelivable. Theres no way that they can properly balance it, especially with ANet attitude . So you either abuse whats atm OP or struggle playing your class, doing perfect gameplay meanwhile enemy will just pick top meta and spam skills, drinking tea with other hand

Good example are ppl that struggled before to get even into gold/plat, and now have one of those new top 250 titles because scene is so dead. Jesus, I dont know if to some of them I would even give silver div.

[Jasonbdj.4021]

@ledernierrempart.6871 said:

@Jasonbdj.4021 said:Balancing is a joke, anet balancing team needs replacing.

they need to read the forum and listen to players with good arguments instead of either the casual mass or the top players who most of the time only care about winning instead of improving the game.They trashing random skills and killing off functions that are not used by meta, we have --Easy spammable engigrenade kit is literally that, spam all the buttons until they are all on CD. a bit like photonforge to some extent.-Dumb core nerco with lich (why hasn't lich been touched?)core necro or not. the lich is a problem. but some famous streamer said to CMC that its alright because It Is CoUnTeRaBlE...-Fire guard that fart out stacks of burns faster then you can clear just by dancing doing silly amount of damage.fire D/D elementalist with condi burn build deal less than fire guard while having less sustain.

Last update example --Killed rev that I believe just needed damage lowering but got trashed instead.-Nerco wells and sig got completely trashed along with a new trashy trait for no reason which are not used by dumb core nerco.completely agree. wells did not need any changes. well builds were good without being op by any means unless you were using that rune that gave celerity upon using wells.just trash the rune instead.

Fingers cross for Ashes of Creation as this is just a sinking ship. I've played since gw1.... anet we knew has died along with the passion to grow this game.ashe of creation wont have a better combat gaemplay than GW2. they are struggling to know what they want and already changed their battle system 2 times.and it is a sub fee MMORPG. hard pass.gw2 was already a sinking ship a little bit before HOT and then started to sank again when ESL stopped some time after HOT. it is the constant arrival of new players and the lack of good MMORPG that kept gw2 alive. it is still a nice MMORPG even today but it struggle to evolve and each time they try something new it either fail or the mass casual players rant (or a few old veteran like in WvW who just want to play the same game over and over while opposed to the slightess change) about it until it got taken out. the new living story is great tho. and it seems that the story is getting better and better.

The mistake on the nerco balance update is shocking and they fixed it by killing it further, part that didn't need to be touched at the first place.i don't know who they got the feedback from.

Absolutely true indeed :)

They can easier see the problem themselves just by playing the game.

Yeah, it’s going to be a little backwards by the looks of things with Ashes of Creation combat....

Just no longer interested on giving gw2 more of my time and money the way they are going, and the other games are just a big downgrade in combat lol.

Anet have an awesome game in their hands which so much potential to be the top game to play, the world, the gameplay, the combat system etc just no passion, careless balance team.... feel sorry for people that did pour their heart into this game while there are people like the balance team killing it with stupid lazy mistakes and sit there quiet about it.

[Psycoprophet.8107]

Player quality is low cuz it follows the quality of the game.....

[Caedmon.6798]

New people are unable to learn how to play properly when they get destroyed ina second and think nahh im gonna go back to pve. Dueling is the only place where people are really able to learn their class inside out. But thats locked behind a Guild hall ( It also doesnt help that this Still uses PVE balance,which needs to be changed to WvW/Pvp balance instead ) or closed off pvp servers where u need a passw and then you still need to find someone able to help you that actually knows what hes talking about. If ure a pro and notice someone is new or was playing bad step up and be open to ask if hes willing to duel with you so you can Learn them how to play,not to destroy them. You either want a growing or a shrinking population,helping others learning how to pvp will only be for the good and doesnt have to take huge chunks of your time,if only for the basics.

[TheMaverick.6104]

I see some problem with that you can learn to a certain level and still be roflstomped into oblivion by the ‘right’ build. And it happens in seconds.

[gousgou.5438]

@Metzie.3451 said:

@Azreell.1568 said:

@"anjo.6143" said:Low population? Hard to learn? Hard to find sources of learning? Wrong rewards luring wrong peoples? A lot of newcomers?

Why around 90% of the pvp population cant evolve?

The primary reason GW2 has such a low PvP player base is simply the toxicity of this community.

Thanks for this wonderful joke, I had to laugh heartily.

That is by no means the main reason. In short, and first of all, ANet alone is responsible for why the player base is what it is. And only then comes everything else, and finally your assumption "the community is too toxic"! ;)

I stopped playing PvP sometime during 2015 I believe for exactly that reason.

You smash people, you get toxic filthy degenerate messages.You get smashed by people, you get toxic filthy degenerate messages.There was and I believe there still is no hope if reporting someone for whispering shit is not dealt with with a freaking axe from Anet.

I don't think reports did any good as they hanged around, so I bailed PvP and I log on to the game from time to time (because the PvE grind is not my cup of tea).

[huluobo.7036]

The biggest failure of "Guild Wars 2" pvp is the team system. This will cause quarrels between players.And make the player and ArenaNet become enemies. Most of the teammates we meet are idiots, and idiot teammates will not improve your level.I know everyone has the right to growBut now new players are torturing old players, Only by increasing the teammate selection function can the new and old players be balanced.The anger of players does not mean that pvp is successful.Only by adjusting according to the player's anger, Guild Wars 2 pvp can become better.

[Aeolus.3615]

@felix.2386 said:

@Shiyo.3578 said:

@bluri.2653 said:

@Multicolorhipster.9751 said:

@Fueki.4753 said:

@Multicolorhipster.9751 said:The balance atm is catered to the average and look where it got us lmao.There is literally nothing catered towards the average.

Massive condi bombs that average players have no hope to avoid?Arenanet doubling down on CC effectiveness when most people already struggled with the overabundance of CC?Runaway (Stealth, Teleport etc) gets worse, despite the majority having disdain for it?Bunker builds that can't be taken down with less then 3 or 4 people?

Arenanet made everything worse for the average.The changes literally benefit noone, it's just

changes for the sake of changes.

yes I agree completely. It wasn't me who said that I was just quoting that person.

I haven't looked into a whole lot, but it be like that now. I too have resorted to playing a CC-spam bunker build that can sometimes take 3 people to deal with. Usually when there's new/average people on the other team that don't know how to deal with it, that's when it takes a bunch of people to kill you or chase you off point.

So yes I agree it is not catered to those players either. Honestly they're usually the first ones to say: "Wow, forget this clown fiesta i'm out."

Sorry to burst both of your bubbles but the game has not been this dumbed down ever, its probably worse than bunker chrono in early HoT.

Every gank setup, moa spikes, portal plays, rotations are long gone. 1v1ers unable to kill each other, this is what we have now. You both obviously dont play organised etc so u dont understand

It's funny because, in their attempt to dumb down the game for casuals/new players to get into, they actually created the worst possible experience for casuals/new players to get into. More new players quit over AOE condi/symbol spam than stay because it's "fun".

It even pushes away "Big" streamers which would bring in a LOT of new players. They simply get tired of the AOE spam and give up. Example:

https://www.twitch.tv/summit1g/clip/ObeseOilyToadTheRinger

The current state of the game is harmful for it's growth and something needs to be done about it ASAP for PvP not to disappear entirely

**FIX AOE CONDI/SYMBOL SPAM SO YOUR GAME GROWS AND GETS NEW PLAYERS. WITHOUT NEW PLAYERS THE GAME EVENTUALLY STAGNATES UNTIL EVERYONE QUITS AND THERE IS NO ONE LEFT

yoo that clip is funny AF...they really went all out with the AoE spamming since HoT

And then PoF came and every player start thinking they were best player in game due its gimicks and aoe...

Guys start stacking torment and fear this should be meta.,,,, and would kill the gameplay for sure, maybe Anet start paying more atention to the stupidlity of their class design that have been designed for lamers.

[Sneakers.8462]

I think the low quality of player skill is down to the core game design. Looking back at Guild Wars 1, enemies used real skills, that the player had access too. For example, an Elementalist enemy might have the Elite skill Savannah Heat which is an AoE damage spell which increases in damage the longer someone stands in it. Therefore, teaching the playing that they should not stand in that AoE skill. They will then go into PvP, see someone use Savannah Heat and easily recognize not to stand in it.

In Guild Wars 2, there is no such teaching for the player. In PvE you simply dodge red markers on the ground and enemies have stuff like "reflects projectiles". Hardly helpful for teaching people key skills to avoid in PvP.

Combine this with no real support for PvP or even in game help explaining rotations, roles or anything makes it hard for new players to learn without going elsewhere.

I blame the developers for the poor skill level of players.

[Psycoprophet.8107]

Game quality and games balance is ridiculously low right now so is the player quality as it goes hand in hand. Players that squeak balance is good play holo,reaper and burn guards lol.

[SPESHAL.9106]

@"Shiyo.3578" said:

It's funny because, in their attempt to dumb down the game for casuals/new players to get into, they actually created the worst possible experience for casuals/new players to get into. More new players quit over AOE condi/symbol spam than stay because it's "fun".

It even pushes away "Big" streamers which would bring in a LOT of new players. They simply get tired of the AOE spam and give up. Example: https://www.twitch.tv/summit1g/clip/ObeseOilyToadTheRinger

The current state of the game is harmful for it's growth and something needs to be done about it ASAP for PvP not to disappear entirely

**FIX AOE CONDI/SYMBOL SPAM SO YOUR GAME GROWS AND GETS NEW PLAYERS. WITHOUT NEW PLAYERS THE GAME EVENTUALLY STAGNATES UNTIL EVERYONE QUITS AND THERE IS NO ONE LEFT

They once had just Necro's as extreme AOE profession and they paid a price in no mobility and easy focus for that AOE. Now, they have everyone including thieves with AOE on top of boosting everyone's mobility and other attributes. In theory, it makes the game a little more balanced on paper, but impossible for new players to get a grasp of the depth needed to understand what to do in all that mess.

That streamer was not good or smart in his builds and playstyle though. He wanted to faceroll with bad builds and had even worse instincts/experience (i.e. didn't dodge the treb and constantly made bad weapon swaps).

For new players and the good of the game, they need to remove the builds that are ridiculous against new players where they get killed just standing in a spot while the other player is immune/invis/barely hittable even if focused (i.e. symbols, nades, condi bomb builds from guardians, necros, thieves, mesmers, eles). They also need to increase baseline health which they haven't done since inception.

[Lucentfir.7430]

Largely because this game has caved into the casual side as a whole, a long time ago. It only cares about the open world/instanced story PVE side of the game (easy content), and the gemstore releases(outfits, mounts). Bread and butter conquest for 8 years, and no new permanent additions to the line up, just some needless gimmick off-season mode restriction. WvW Alliances that will never come, or if they do, have been LONG overdue. As much as people whine about the balancing as a whole, they really over did it with the balancing changes they did, and kinda ruined a lot of fun and diversity of builds. They needed a deep dive of every spec and specific class tuning, but instead it was a large blanket nerf to everything, and threw all the years of tuning in the bin, and from what I can tell, they kept pretty much everything the same as far as balancing schedule goes, which i called it back in February. Honestly I worry sometimes if another MMO game comes out with a focus on PvP end game with combat just as good as Gw2, that'll be it for one of Gw2's advantages over other games. Right now i can't find another MMO that strikes the balance of fluid and skill based combat, with good thematics as much as it does in Gw2.

[ParanoidKami.2867]

A lot of people are unwilling to put in the effort to learn basic things.

[JTGuevara.9018]

Simply put...most of the skilled pvp-oriented players saw the writing on the wall and left, myself included. All you have left are either the bitter diehards and holdouts, newbies or bots! Without skilled pvp players bolstering the matchmaking system, you CANNOT have a functional pvp environment. The games are going to be unbalanced, hence low-quality.

Honestly, after playing other multiplayer games, I have zero hope for pvp in MMOs. They're just never going to be the main focus. Might as well just play something like Fortnite or CoD: Warzone if y'all want your multiplayer fix. gw2 pvp is dead and buried. It's a matter of time before this thing goes into maintenance mode and is completely automated.

[Garret.1965]

Why is the quality of coherent thought and proper grammar so bad in the forums? That is the question.

[Zawn.9647]

There’s nothing to do with balance when people goes suicide in mid even if the entire team is dead...Or if the team keeps 3x1 a ranger that is kiting them in the middle of nowhere while the node is capped by the ranger and no one decaps...

I’d love if it were only for balancing. But it seems people want to play Call of Duty by rushing as soon as spawn and mindless pressing buttons in the middle of a battle (even if that battle is 1v4) and ignoring nodes

EDIT: typo

[Swagg.9236]

It's not inadequately reward or difficult to learn; GW2's PvP combat is oppressively esoteric and homogenized. The way to git gud is mainly through reading patch notes and match-up guides followed by menial drills for muscle memory. The skill ceiling is rather low, and therefore it tends to create a revolving door effect in which it can never seem to hold onto players for long enough for them to become "accomplished." The population consistently withers away, and the only people left in the limelight are generally just the people who were "the best" at the game when it was remotely popular (i.e. being fed money by anet in a hollow and pathetic ploy to market this game's joke of a competitive gamemode). Ninety percent of the game's PvP playerbase "doesn't evolve" because 90% of the people who touch GW2 PvP almost immediately drop it for the slop that it is.

[Master Ketsu.4569]

Because the balance and skills team refuse to accept the fact that most balance issues actually have root causes in mechanics that have been in dire need of improvement for years.

But to make things worse, a lot of the community doesn't get it either. So you get thread after thread of nonsensical balance suggestions coming from people who never even played the class they are complaining about.