Mystic Coin Inflation

[kharmin.7683]

@TheGrimm.5624 said:

@kharmin.7683 said:

@TheGrimm.5624 said:The question is for the people holding theirs, what is their sell price?For me, it's not a price point. It's usually once I have collected a stack, then I'll sell 'em unless the trends have been really skewed around the time I'm ready to offload.

If I might ask, is that a stack after storage is full or a stack in storage?

Full stack in storage. I don't use them, so I have no need to hold any in reserve.

[TheGrimm.5624]

@kharmin.7683 said:

@TheGrimm.5624 said:

@kharmin.7683 said:

@TheGrimm.5624 said:The question is for the people holding theirs, what is their sell price?For me, it's not a price point. It's usually once I have collected a stack, then I'll sell 'em unless the trends have been really skewed around the time I'm ready to offload.

If I might ask, is that a stack after storage is full or a stack in storage?

Full stack in storage. I don't use them, so I have no need to hold any in reserve.

I do the same, and I think a number of people do. So the question is how many people do that but are now also sitting on those since it's unclear if they will have more value in EoD. So we might see the price raising now and if there is no additional need for MCs in EoD we might get a flood to the market at EoD of those people that might have stopped selling and just let stack due to the unknown. Which will then bring the price back down. We have seen the same pattern overtime which is why ANet action would be questionable. Early adopters pay more and people that take their time pay less until there is a balance.

[lare.5129]

@"TheGrimm.5624" said:The question is for the people holding theirs, what is their sell price?I am ask few friends how much mc they have, value is 1000 -1500. The I ask "u not sell it on tp?" get asnwer: "what the reason do that?"no matter it will be 2g or 5 they not see it. Price to move them start from 8g+

[Obtena.7952]

@Astralporing.1957 said:The truth is, they have made interventions in the past for other materials in similar situations.

People not wanting to pay for MC's isn't a good reason for Anet to intervene. There have NEVER been interventions because people didn't like the price ... it was a supply issue if there was an intervention ... and MC's don't have a supply problem either. People just want things NOW and their is a price for NOW ... and currently, it's 2G per MC.

[Astralporing.1957]

@Obtena.7952 said:

@"Astralporing.1957" said:The truth is, they

have

made interventions in the past for other materials in similar situations.

People not wanting to pay for MC's isn't a good reason for Anet to intervene.Your statement was much more general than that. And people in this and other such threads made much more arguments about it than just "we don't like it".

and MC's don't have a supply problem either.The situation now isn't any different than it was just before they added new sources of MCs into the game. More than once. Each time before they did that people claimed that supply was okay. In fact, the first claims about supply being okay started quite a long time ago, when MCs were still below 50s.

People just want things NOW and their is a price for NOW ... and currently, it's 2G per MC.Right. This argument is not new either, i have heard it before. Except of course the price changes. And yes, it has been used before those adjustments as well.

In the end, the price keeps rising because we still have a situation where supply is lower than demand (and by demand i don't mean a consumption rate, but demand)

[Obtena.7952]

@Astralporing.1957 said:In the end, the price keeps rising because we still have a situation where supply is lower than demand (and by demand i don't mean a consumption rate, but demand)

No, the price isn't only rising because of supply and demand. Rising prices over time is not a reason for Anet to intervene either. Let's put it this way: Price, no matter what trend or value it is, is not a reason for Anet to intervene. NO argument based on price is valid since there is NO correct price for what MC's go for on the TP. The problem has NOTHING to do with price ... so as long as people are going to frame the problem like that, it's going to get strong opposition every time.

[Cuks.8241]

The price increase is actually a good thing. Gen1 legys' supply and prices are pretty stable regardless of the MCoins price inflation. Since other mats and precursors are more accessible, it's MCoins that are holding the prices. I am not making legys for sale so I don't know how the margins are holding up. I would speculate that for those that do make them for sale it's ok that they are more exclusive which could also lead to higher margins and profit.If you are making legys only for yourself MCoins ain't such an issue, you get enough naturally. Unless you really want to make many of them in a short time.If you are not interested in legys you don't care about MCoins and its only extra profit so this is only good for you.So it is actually in most people interest that MCoins price stays "high".The only people that are losing for sure are the ones that are selling them and then rebuying to craft. But if you are doing that, you're doing it wrong. And that goes for any material due to TP tax.There is really no reason for any intervention on Anet part. There would need to be a serious issue with legy accessibility to go into that. And there is not, they are actually more and more accessible over time.

[Cuks.8241]

@Astralporing.1957 said:In the end, the price keeps rising because we still have a situation where supply is lower than demand (and by demand i don't mean a consumption rate, but demand)How is that a problem? They have a very specific purpose, crafting the rarest gear in the game which also only impacts convenience and fashion (so no p2win). I would say it only makes sense that the demand for the rarest items in the game is high and supply low.

[Khisanth.2948]

@Danikat.8537 said:

@choon.6308 said:Well, it seems like earliest players were the luckiest. Getting everything for ridiculously cheap prices to max out and buy everything. 400 gems used to cost like 8 gold rofl

Part of the reason things were cheaper back then is that gold wasn't as easy to come by. Daily achievements used to give nothing but achievement points (which had no rewards associated with them), there were no login rewards and many of the gold farms popular today like Silverwastes didn't exist, in fact for the first couple of months Cursed Shore was the only level 80 map, then Southsun was added (without the karka queen) and I think that was it until Drytop was added in 2014. There's been many other changes too, but I'm not going to try to list them all.

I remember early on people arguing that obviously no one could be expected to get 100g for a commander tag on their own (1/3 the current price, but it was also character-specific) and obviously the idea was for a guild or other group to club together and buy one for the person who would lead their activities. Some players did manage it on their own of course, but it took a lot longer.

and you could get buy precursors for less than 10g ...

@ArchonWing.9480 said:Also, just do fractals. Either you get coins or the gold to buy them.

I'll tell you what won't work though. Complaining about the price and paying it anyways.

While I agree with that advice since it is more or less what I do, having more people follow that advice will result in ever increasing prices. :/

@Friday.7864 said:

@knite.1542 said:

@Nightcore.5621 said:Buy 20 gw2 accounts when they on 50%sale. Now u have 100s of mystic coins for free evey 30 Day doin nothing. Thats 440 evey 30 Day just to login in

I don't understand some people's concept of free.

It's a pay for itself and you keep getting stuff for almost no effort afterwards kinda concept.Close enough to free after the initial investment (in gold value) pays off. Beats having to spend most of your gold on mystic coins all the time for some people. Not for everyone.

No effort? Doing that on 20 account is still going to be around 40 minutes of logging in and out if you do it individually. If you can launch multiple instances at once that might speed things up but I don't know what sort of hardware is required and you will need to use some external software to make it work.

@Dayra.7405 said:It's just a matter of patience or not ;)

Just do reward tracks (PvP or WvW) and get your mytic clover for free, get over 20 MC's per 28 days for free as well.If you have patience you never need to buy a single MC, you may even sell some.

you forgot about opportunity cost

the reward tracks take around 8 hours to complete without boosters or potions. With boosters that can be cut down to around 4 hours.2 clovers is ~6 MCAssuming 2g/MC that is 12g per 4 to 8 hours or a rate of 1.5g to 3g/hThere are potentially other items in the track that is worth something but it doesn't seem likely that they can make up the gap between 3g/h and some of the alternatives.

If you are impatient then you have to give your money to others, that are patient. I find this fair ;)

Depends on how you are getting stuff. Getting it via login is a matter of patience since you get it for mostly free. You have to log in to do anything else anyway. Getting clovers from reward tracks becomes an efficiency issue.

[Astralporing.1957]

@Cuks.8241 said:

@Astralporing.1957 said:In the end, the price keeps rising because we

still

have a situation where supply is lower than demand (and by demand i don't mean a consumption rate, but

demand

)How is that a problem?You might want to see the whole subdiscussion this was part of, you would understand what i was saying and why.

[Friday.7864]

@Khisanth.2948 said:

@Danikat.8537 said:

@choon.6308 said:Well, it seems like earliest players were the luckiest. Getting everything for ridiculously cheap prices to max out and buy everything. 400 gems used to cost like 8 gold rofl

Part of the reason things were cheaper back then is that gold wasn't as easy to come by. Daily achievements used to give nothing but achievement points (which had no rewards associated with them), there were no login rewards and many of the gold farms popular today like Silverwastes didn't exist, in fact for the first couple of months Cursed Shore was the only level 80 map, then Southsun was added (without the karka queen) and I think that was it until Drytop was added in 2014. There's been many other changes too, but I'm not going to try to list them all.

I remember early on people arguing that obviously no one could be expected to get 100g for a commander tag on their own (1/3 the current price, but it was also character-specific) and obviously the idea was for a guild or other group to club together and buy one for the person who would lead their activities. Some players did manage it on their own of course, but it took a lot longer.

and you could get buy precursors for less than 10g ...

@ArchonWing.9480 said:Also, just do fractals. Either you get coins or the gold to buy them.

I'll tell you what won't work though. Complaining about the price and paying it anyways.

While I agree with that advice since it is more or less what I do, having more people follow that advice will result in ever increasing prices. :/

@Friday.7864 said:

@knite.1542 said:

@Nightcore.5621 said:Buy 20 gw2 accounts when they on 50%sale. Now u have 100s of mystic coins for free evey 30 Day doin nothing. Thats 440 evey 30 Day just to login in

I don't understand some people's concept of free.

It's a pay for itself and you keep getting stuff for almost no effort afterwards kinda concept.Close enough to free after the initial investment (in gold value) pays off. Beats having to spend most of your gold on mystic coins all the time for some people. Not for everyone.

No effort? Doing that on 20 account is still going to be around 40 minutes of logging in and out if you do it individually. If you can launch multiple instances at once that might speed things up but I don't know what sort of hardware is required and you will need to use some external software to make it work.

@"Dayra.7405" said:It's just a matter of patience or not ;)

Just do reward tracks (PvP or WvW) and get your mytic clover for free, get over 20 MC's per 28 days for free as well.If you have patience you never need to buy a single MC, you may even sell some.

you forgot about opportunity cost

the reward tracks take around 8 hours to complete without boosters or potions. With boosters that can be cut down to around 4 hours.2 clovers is ~6 MCAssuming 2g/MC that is 12g per 4 to 8 hours or a rate of 1.5g to 3g/hThere are potentially other items in the track that is worth something but it doesn't seem likely that they can make up the gap between 3g/h and some of the alternatives.

If you are impatient then you have to give your money to others, that are patient. I find this fair ;)

Depends on how you are getting stuff. Getting it via login is a matter of patience since you get it for mostly free. You have to log in to do anything else anyway. Getting clovers from reward tracks becomes an efficiency issue.

gw2launchbuddy, 10 accounts, 3700X - now you knowEDIT: Before I get any uninformed comments, if Anet partners are using it so can you.

[Ashen.2907]

@TheGrimm.5624 said:The question is for the people holding theirs, what is their sell price?

Hmm, not so much a price as it is a matter of liking the sight of my crafting storage full.

[keenedge.9675]

When you have 14 stacks as I do, you probably have plenty of gold.
1) Someday if I need gold I may sell some2) Someday I hope they add a broad range of new recipes to actually use mats to build something cool.

[Astralporing.1957]

@TheGrimm.5624 said:The question is for the people holding theirs, what is their sell price?Missed that question earlier.In most cases, for other materials, it's when the material storage overflows - then i sell a stack or two, and start to restock again.(or i sometimes sell if there's a huge price spike i think won't last long)

For MCs however it works a little bit differently. Seeing as their value only goes up, whenever storage overflows with them, i simply move all those stacks to the bank. If i'll ever need them in the future, i won;t have to buy them back at a greater price. And if i'll ever find myself in desperate need of gold, i will be able to sell the MCs then. As long as they keep increasing in price on the steady and stable rate, I lose absolutely nothing by hoarding them. Quite the opposite, they are like a safe, no-risk investment with decent payoff in the future.

[Vancho.8750]

There is multiple reasons, first some people are obviously fixing the price from time to time, since the coins are used as secondary currency for trading since no gold cap on the mail for those, the other thing is people are hoarding them since they cost allot and they might need them, and there hasn't been a Gold sink for the whole community like the Gryphon for a long time so people do not have a reason to sell their stock. There is probably more reasons but these are the first that came to mind.

[mtpelion.4562]

@"TheGrimm.5624" said:The question is for the people holding theirs, what is their sell price?

Unlike other materials which can be targeted for production if the supply side shrinks, MCs have a fixed rate of generation. This means that the price is essentially always going to rise as long as there is any demand. There will be some minor drops as the price hits various other players' sell points, but those temporary blips are not going to impact the overall price trajectory.

As a result, the longer I hold them the more valuable they become which means there is no point at which I should sell as they have an "infinite" future value. Essentially, I will hold them until I use them, and once I've made everything possible with them, sell them only as needed to obtain gold.

[Nabbut.7480]

@"mtpelion.4562" said:they have an "infinite" future value.I call BS on that. Players will make the legendaries they need, and then start selling extra coins so there would be a peak price after which it shall fall. Even if they are stockpiling coins, eventually they shall run out of bank space and likely realize that buying extra bank expansions for stockpile instead of selling coins is kinda suboptimal resource management.

[Cuks.8241]

@Astralporing.1957 said:

@Cuks.8241 said:

@Astralporing.1957 said:In the end, the price keeps rising because we

still

have a situation where supply is lower than demand (and by demand i don't mean a consumption rate, but

demand

)How is that a problem?You might want to see the whole subdiscussion this was part of, you would understand what i was saying and why.

I was following this thread before I posted and I was somewhat following the other thread about the latest manipulations of MCoin prices. I haven't seen a straightforward reason why the current price of MCoins is bad or wrong.On the contrary, I see people that are MCoin consumers, that make a lot of legendaries saying its fine. And from my experience I agree with them.I see MCoins and clovers as the limiting factor for the number of legendaries that can be introduced to the game over time and I think Anet implemented them like that. You just can't farm them like other mats. So naturally, if other mats drop in prices MCoins will go up. They are a balancing tool. I only judge this by Gen1 supply and price on TP. Supply is stable, prices are even slowly dropping so I think the MCoin price is exactly where it needs to be and will even increase over time which is actually exactly how it is supposed to be unless we see a big shift in overall mat supply. I don't see any reason why Anet would need to adjust this balance unless they want more legys in the game.

[Astralporing.1957]

@Cuks.8241 said:

@Astralporing.1957 said:

@Cuks.8241 said:

@Astralporing.1957 said:In the end, the price keeps rising because we

still

have a situation where supply is lower than demand (and by demand i don't mean a consumption rate, but

demand

)How is that a problem?You might want to see the whole subdiscussion this was part of, you would understand what i was saying and why.

I was following this thread before I posted and I was somewhat following the other thread about the latest manipulations of MCoin prices. I haven't seen a straightforward reason why the current price of MCoins is bad or wrong.The subdiscussion you responded to had actually nothing to do directly with whether MCs price rising is bad or wrong, it related only to how and why Anet intervenes/does not intervene in economy.My quote you responded to was not judging anything, it was simply stating a fact. A fact that was relevant to the discussion i was having with Obtena.

[Astralporing.1957]

@Obtena.7952 said:No, the price isn't only rising because of supply and demand.Then what other factor influences that?

@paShadoWn.5723 said:

@"mtpelion.4562" said:they have an "infinite" future value.I call BS on that. Players will make the legendaries they need, and then start selling extra coins so there would be a peak price after which it shall fall.That argument seems sound. It seemed sound the first time it was used as well, which was several years ago. It's just that we're currently several years later, and yet not any closer to that point than we were then. So, perhaps while it may seem sound, it actually misses something. Like the fact that MCs have gained another use than just as a crafting material, and that use is as an alternative form of currency.

You may treat them now as a Tyria's version of gold bullion investment. Or of government-issued bonds.

I doubt that was intended by Anet (i kind of remember them once making negative comments about ecto and armbraces role as alternate GW1 currency, and them not wanting stuff like that in GW2), but that still is what MCs are now.

Even if they are stockpiling coins, eventually they shall run out of bank space and likely realize that buying extra bank expansions for stockpile instead of selling coins is kinda suboptimal resource management.The game will close well before i will run out of bank space for MCs. Just saying.

[FrizzFreston.5290]

@Obtena.7952 said:

@Astralporing.1957 said:In the end, the price keeps rising because we

still

have a situation where supply is lower than demand (and by demand i don't mean a consumption rate, but

demand

)

No, the price isn't only rising because of supply and demand. Rising prices over time is not a reason for Anet to intervene either. Let's put it this way: Price, no matter what trend or value it is, is not a reason for Anet to intervene. NO argument based on price is valid since there is NO correct price for what MC's go for on the TP. The problem has NOTHING to do with price ... so as long as people are going to frame the problem like that, it's going to get strong opposition every time.

What is or isnt a good reason is entirely subjective. Most if not all materials are designed in a certain way, so that they have a certain value. It only takes a redesign decision to change that.

Not that they are likely to change mystic coins ofcourse, but I wouldnt have put it like there are no good price based arguments. Then again, i generally think its a bad idea to put it in such absolute terms.

In the highly hypothetical case it should need changing to curb player satisfaction on this topic, it could be an idea that additional mystic coin sources would give account bound mystic coins and you would convert non-bound into bound MCs as you want to use them. To impact the market as little as possible.

[Trevor Boyer.6524]

@"korian.8615" said:Greetings everyone,I am writing because a market with prices out of control is no longer feasible. Mystic Coins have almost reached 2 gold. Anet stops this inflation because it makes no sense. In the beginning they cost 5 silver. I attach just for information the image of the market, note the order and the quantity . The speculation that is made by this practice that in real society is stopped.May the walk be safe

https://ibb.co/HVbXtZ3

It's probably people affiliated with trade guilds. They focus primarily on building/selling legendary weapons, which has a lot to do with mystic coins.

What they do is they stockpile things like mystic coins on mule characters/accounts. They trade privately between each other with mail function to avoid TP taxing. The coins they use never hit the TP market. In many cases they will collaborate ways to make igg by getting a handful of TP whales together, who will buy up something important like mystic coins from the TP market. Then they sit on them and watch the pricing go up and up and up on the TP. When this happens with something like mystic coins, it artificially inflates the value of ALL the legendary items they have stockpiled, as well as the mystic coins stockpiled, which they can sell in bulk and make the gold back anytime they want, while avoiding TP taxing, by turning those coins into clovers, and those clovers into legendary weapons.

I guarantee you that most of the bigger TP whales out there are sitting on piles of legendary weapons that they haven't sold yet, because the market has been weird for awhile now and they don't want to lose profit. If I had to place my money why mystic coins have suddenly sky rocketed up in price, this would be why. 9 out of 10 chance that it's TP whales trying to raise the value of old gen 1 legendary weapons again. When mystic coin prices go up, so does the value of gen 1 legendary. I could be wrong, but outside of that, I don't see a reason why mystic coins would have magically suddenly increased in value so much.

[TheGrimm.5624]

@"Trevor Boyer.6524" said:If I had to place my money why mystic coins have suddenly sky rocketed up in price,

https://www.gw2spidy.com/item/19976

The demand went up recently, but the price in terms of sell listing looks like a covid increase in people playing. Price went up gradually since March of this year when lockdowns were occurring more and has been generally level while pandemic has occurred. Now we don't have ANets numbers but industry numbers show a raise in gaming while lockdowns are in place and I would be surprised if ANets numbers weren't following suite.

So could be some of what you are referring too, but when you go back to a big spike in 2017 price is not much higher than the spike three years ago. Skyrocket I would leave to a jump of 10 fold increase vs 26% or so increase since Mar where it is was1.36 G sell list that has risen slowly for the last 8 months to 1.83 G. Which between covid and announcements of legendary armoury and the time it takes to acquire tickets for PvP and WvW legendary armor could all account for an increase in use and demand. Plus as people have mentioned a lot of us wait till our storage is full before listing new offers. And if your storage is full and your are going to sell you probably don't need to take the highest buy offer, you are going to list for a sell for something higher since you are in the better position. So until price makes it to the point that sellers are ok with selling to the buy order, the buy orders are low and need to rise to meet the expectation of price.

Again, I also played the TP baron in other games so agree there are things people can do, but normal factors also here could be applied. But noted, I am an advocate for years that MCs were undervalued and still remember when they were less than a silver and ANet had them in the BLTCs as a drop.

[Astralporing.1957]

@TheGrimm.5624 said:Price went up gradually since March of this yearYou mean, since December 2015, right? because the general trend started then, Sure, there are some ups and downs on the way, some spikes and short-term reversals after them, but those are simply slight variations to the general trend, which is nothing recent. It's something that started 5 years ago.Sure, Covid might have accelerated things a little (or maybe it was the news about Legendary Armory), but we'd have gotten to that point anyway.

Notice, by the way, that while more players indeed should mean an increase in demand, it should also mean an increase in supply Especialy for MCs, that are mostly generated from login rewards. As such, it can't change a general market trend, it can only accelerate it.

[Strider Pj.2193]

@Astralporing.1957 said:

@TheGrimm.5624 said:Price went up gradually since March of

Notice, by the way, that while more players indeed should mean an increase in demand, it should also mean an increase in supply Especialy for MCs, that are mostly generated from login rewards. As such, it can't change a general market trend, it can only accelerate it.

Except that with the age of the game and people having multiple legendaries, new people want things ‘now’ (level 80 boost, skipping story right up to raptor chapter etc) that more and more people are likely not waiting for the log in rewards.

On a slightly different note, despite the base price being reset by the 300k order that was placed at 1.80 gold. People continue to place higher buy orders both because they want them now, and they can afford them.

Its been a slow and steady increase.

Also of note, in GW 1, ectoplasm was the Mystic Coins of that game. It was currency.

And mystic coins will continue to be used as currency.