Couldn't balance a scale

[darren.1064]

Good job ruining thief more than it already was

[Ghos.1326]

Thief has been meta for a while. and it's not in a bad spot.I take it you're a thief main. If so...LEL

[dronte.3416]

thief was ruined in the past?l o lwhat are u smokin

[Azure The Heartless.3261]

mmm pain mmmm

[darren.1064]

In the coming days i'll write about this nerf, but until then. This balance patch and balance team are garbage.

[ollbirtan.2915]

While I couldn't care less about thief, I agree with OP. Patch is some kitten lazy garbo.

[Kuma.1503]

I hate thief with a burning passion, but damn. Give this class a break lol.

Plasma nerf was good though, It came right as I was starting to practice condi mirage

[UNOwen.7132]

@dronte.3416 said:thief was ruined in the past?l o lwhat are u smokin

There was actually a brief period in HoT where Thief was one of the 2 worst classes (or 3? I dont fully remember), but that was kind of an outlier than the norm.

[avey.4201]

Heal skill I carry solely for blind on guard has higher base damage than all my utilities/elite combined, so yes, nerf DH traps more, while ranger has stronger longbow and melee, stronger traps, +1 pet, more mobility, and more stealth access.10/10 would watch Anet go bankrupt again.

[Anomaly.7612]

All while the Acro traitline is still considered an untouchable and nothing was done to Necros. Anet's favored class just like mages in WoW for so long. Silly shit.

[Kachros.4751]

Please tell me this was some form of joke. Thief was easily a top 3 class before this nerf and is still more than viable atm. Id say its in a good position compared to before when it was just stupidly strong.

[KrHome.1920]

Infiltrator's Arrow spam got a 2 second nerf. Super "significant"!

The skill was never meant to be a fast travel utility, but a reposition utility for the shortbow or what do you think why there is a blind on it?

Since no thief actually cared for that purpose and everyone is just using the skill exclusively for traveling (that's an euphemism for resetting btw.) for 8 years now, it was time to reduce its impact a bit.

[DeceiverX.8361]

@"KrHome.1920" said:Infiltrator's Arrow spam became a 2 second nerf. Super "significant"!

The skill was never meant to be a fast travel utility but a reposition utility for the shortbow or what do you think why there is a blind on it?

Since no thief actually cared for that purpose and everyone is just using the skill exclusively for traveling (that's an euphemism for resetting btw.) for 8 years now, it is time to reduce its impact a bit.

Issue is that it came at the cost of a core weapon instead of what's definitively a problem with Daredevil and SA. This impacts every build, and not as significantly the ones which were already too slippery and badly-designed.

The change also runs entirely contrary to having it be used in order to reposition, since the melee kits and damage trait lines have had their power gutted such that having 8 initiative in the tank to use to reposition just isn't feasible. It's now solely a passive movement tool to reset or traverse maps with.

Core or DE running shortbow can be caught by pretty much every profession, including necro. I do it all the time. The issues thief has are nothing more than stacked stealth via SA and other factors (D/P and BD or DE) and Scaredevil's ability to run away from anything through Dash from pure movespeed while getting free re-engage on Shadow Shot.

This is just one more example of ANet not understanding why the problem exists and instead dealing with the lowest-hanging-fruit symptoms instead of the actual problems.

[Exile.8160]

@"avey.4201" said:Heal skill I carry solely for blind on guard has higher base damage than all my utilities/elite combined, so yes, nerf DH traps more, while ranger has stronger longbow and melee, stronger traps, +1 pet, more mobility, and more stealth access.10/10 would watch Anet go bankrupt again.

Lel guard has literally nothing outside of burn dh, everything they had was nerf. Besides if you"re not smart enough to no stand on point vs a dh thats your problem not the class.

[mrauls.6519]

This title cracked me up

[Fat Disgrace.4275]

2 Initiative more for sb#5 has ruined the class D: ?? I think people are over reacting here.

[Kachros.4751]

@Highlie.7641 said:I'm still to busy laughing.

Since i know this is just going to force every thief into the Degenerate gameplay we all hate. The rise of SA cond thieves. and you can only blame yourselfs.

SA condi hasnt changed at all other than a mobility nerf, power DA thief will probably just be better since most sidendeors can play against condi thief easily

[Kachros.4751]

@Fat Disgrace.4275 said:2 Initiative more for sb#5 has ruined the class D: ?? I think people are over reacting here.

its not ruined it, people just are mad that they cant abuse the mobility of thief as hard now... escaping iwth triple shortbow 5 to 2.7k range away was a bit dumb so thankfully its only 1.8k now :)

[thundermarch.5643]

saddly for core thief, the mobility due to the daredevil make them top tier mobility and essential for roaming / depack the enemy team (as they wanted to recap after him) so i could understand that they want to reduce their mobility combine with the 3 long evade.

[Quadox.7834]

Drazeh's tier list sPvP September 2020

[Swagg.9236]

If you people ever wanted GW2 to have legitimately engaging PvP, you never even wanted balance in the first place; what you really want is a complete overhaul of movement and a serious effort at role compression rather than just letting patch notes dictate which couple of classes get a monopoly on the same shallow mechanics that every build already uses.

[saerni.2584]

@Kachros.4751 said:

@"Fat Disgrace.4275" said:2 Initiative more for sb#5 has ruined the class D: ?? I think people are over reacting here.

its not ruined it, people just are mad that they cant abuse the mobility of thief as hard now... escaping iwth triple shortbow 5 to 2.7k range away was a bit dumb so thankfully its only 1.8k now :)

I think people are missing something in your calculations.

Before, you could use (full initiative w/ Trickery) IA x2, then wait a moment for regen to let you use it a third time.

Now, you use IA once, for 900 range. Then you need to wait for several seconds to use it again. Then you can use it a second time for 1800 total distance.

But, because the "wait for more initiative" comes at 900 range and not 1800 range, the thief is a lot more vulnerable than before.

Plenty of opponents can gap close that 900 distance or use the wait time to burst them from range (900 is not very far range wise and the skill comes with likely technical failures so the 900 is not always the full 900).

Now, I still think SB could be somewhat useful for mobility due to 1) verticality of teleports, 2) bonus travel distance over time (with no enemies lol), 3) other utility through CG and CB. Those are valuable in their own right.

But, I do think it's important for people to acknowledge that increasing the skill from 6-8 initiative is a 33% cost increase on a skill that already is more than half of base initiative (which is shared by all weapon skills as a resource). That cost increase is actually significant (because 2 initiative lost is adding an effective 2 second cool down to all skills) and cuts into what kind of defensive kiting potential the weapon had (as well as offensive potential) if the thief uses IA even once. The costs of other skills on the weapon should be adjusted downward (otherwise it becomes a utility weapon that can only do one thing at a time) or the costs of IA should scale (by flip skill or some other design).

As a few people have noted, the gameplay this pushes thief towards may not be appreciated by the community.

[NorthernRedStar.3054]

@Kachros.4751 said:

@"Fat Disgrace.4275" said:2 Initiative more for sb#5 has ruined the class D: ?? I think people are over reacting here.

its not ruined it, people just are mad that they cant abuse the mobility of thief as hard now... escaping iwth triple shortbow 5 to 2.7k range away was a bit dumb so thankfully its only 1.8k now :)

Insert nerf dated XX/YY --> "People are just mad they can't abuse mechanic / skill / trait T right now!"

That is such a convincing argument.

[NorthernRedStar.3054]

@saerni.2584 said:

@Kachros.4751 said:

@"Fat Disgrace.4275" said:2 Initiative more for sb#5 has ruined the class D: ?? I think people are over reacting here.

its not ruined it, people just are mad that they cant abuse the mobility of thief as hard now... escaping iwth triple shortbow 5 to 2.7k range away was a bit dumb so thankfully its only 1.8k now :)

I think people are missing something in your calculations.

Before, you could use (full initiative w/ Trickery) IA x2, then wait a moment for regen to let you use it a third time.

Now, you use IA once, for 900 range. Then you need to wait for several seconds to use it again. Then you can use it a second time for 1800 total distance.

But, because the "wait for more initiative" comes at 900 range and not 1800 range, the thief is a lot more vulnerable than before.

Plenty of opponents can gap close that 900 distance or use the wait time to burst them from range (900 is not very far range wise and the skill comes with likely technical failures so the 900 is not always the full 900).

Now, I still think SB could be somewhat useful for mobility due to 1) verticality of teleports, 2) bonus travel distance over time (with no enemies lol), 3) other utility through CG and CB. Those are valuable in their own right.

But, I do think it's important for people to acknowledge that increasing the skill from 6-8 initiative is a 33% cost increase on a skill that already is more than half of base initiative (which is shared by all weapon skills as a resource). That cost increase is actually significant (because 2 initiative lost is adding an effective 2 second cool down to all skills) and cuts into what kind of defensive kiting potential the weapon had (as well as offensive potential) if the thief uses IA even once. The costs of other skills on the weapon should be adjusted downward (otherwise it becomes a utility weapon that can only do one thing at a time) or the costs of IA should scale (by flip skill or some other design).

As a few people have noted, the gameplay this pushes thief towards may not be appreciated by the community.

People fail to realize this, coupled with SoA. isn't a mere travel distance / time nerf. It's also a massive repositioning/in-fight flexibility nerf. You'll have a much harder time outmaneuvering classes with similar blinks: mesmers, revenants and even guardians.

On a fundamental level, this is similar to soulbeast no-swap nerf: it limits the plays and skill cap of the class.

[Vancho.8750]

@"Quadox.7834" said:Drazeh's tier list sPvP September 2020Never Before Have I Been So Offended By Something I One Hundred Percent Agree With.I find it quite funny that the Elite spec is downgrade to the core profession.Blob lives matter.