About The New Forum Emoji Reactions - Just As Bad As The Old Thumbs Up Or Thumbs Down Vote [Merged]

[The Fear.3865]

I dont get the "thanks" emoji with a trophy, I use it like "give that man a cookie !"  😂

[firedragon.8953]

Just remember, the confused emoji says more about the reader than the post. 😛

[keenedge.9675]

On 5/6/2021 at 8:57 AM, The Greyhawk.9107 said:

When you say "full account" I presume you mean people that have a fully paid account as apposed to the free to play version, correct?  Not sure how I feel about that.

F2P is already blocked from posting in forums.

[hugo.4705]

I used to know a discord server on which everyone could vote on others suggestions about the game, what to develop and so on.

The discord had custom emojis, including an annoying person with a broom, a brain dead icon, representing a RMI profile without brain or a text one written "give us a sign", facepalming child and so on.

 

Players weren't using regular ones, and rapidly adopted those ones, to promote their own idea and spit on other, some, being a leader of a community and using them to upvote its suggestions. Rapidly, the brainless one became "you are dumb", give us a sign "you don't matter in this world" and the broom dude "go out of there". And some other with more life threatening meaning to put simply.

 

The week after. The custom emotes couldn't be used in suggestions channel anymore. Only two emotes remained:

Star. To approve or give a like to the idea. And recycle bin to tell it has been already posted.

 

But what was expected happened. The users decided that recycle bin is for dislike. And so the bin has been removed.

 

Only star remains. People liking it give a star, the one hating or wanting to ignore gives nothing.

The system never worked better than at that moment.

 

I would like the gw2 gorum to only have one emote. Star. You give ut or not, final point. It forces you to debate what you liked or what prevented you to give the star. It was radical on that discord, no users hiding behind a negative emotes anymore, it became constructive.

[Jilora.9524]

Never once since the change have I've been influenced by the amount of likes confused sad or any emoji you got. I can read and determined if your comment was dumb by myself. Now do I think it's possible some dudes dropping 8 confused emoji's w alt accounts sure cause players use to like their own comments with their alts too.

That being said the confused is being thrown around way too much and should be removed. I also use the sad one incorrectly probably as I use it as you are sad for making that comment not I'm sad for reading it.

But honestly I and you shouldn't gaf what emoji's you get or the source of 1 sad dude and his 9 alts if indeed someone is that sad and pathetic to do that

Edited July 23, 2021 by Jilora.9524

[Linken.6345]

1 hour ago, hugo.4705 said:

I used to know a discord server on which everyone could vote on others suggestions about the game, what to develop and so on.

The discord had custom emojis, including an annoying person with a broom, a brain dead icon, representing a RMI profile without brain or a text one written "give us a sign", facepalming child and so on.

 

Players weren't using regular ones, and rapidly adopted those ones, to promote their own idea and spit on other, some, being a leader of a community and using them to upvote its suggestions. Rapidly, the brainless one became "you are dumb", give us a sign "you don't matter in this world" and the broom dude "go out of there". And some other with more life threatening meaning to put simply.

 

The week after. The custom emotes couldn't be used in suggestions channel anymore. Only two emotes remained:

Star. To approve or give a like to the idea. And recycle bin to tell it has been already posted.

 

But what was expected happened. The users decided that recycle bin is for dislike. And so the bin has been removed.

 

Only star remains. People liking it give a star, the one hating or wanting to ignore gives nothing.

The system never worked better than at that moment.

 

I would like the gw2 gorum to only have one emote. Star. You give ut or not, final point. It forces you to debate what you liked or what prevented you to give the star. It was radical on that discord, no users hiding behind a negative emotes anymore, it became constructive.

So if you can only see the positive icon how do you know its bigger then the people that are negative against the idea?

[Dante.1763]

1 minute ago, Linken.6345 said:

So if you can only see the positive icon how do you know its bigger then the people that are negative against the idea?

Probably because it forces those who dislike it to say why, while folks who like it can just "like" and leave, no idea. Its an idea that works fairly well actually, and its better than the "Confused" emote getting spammed on every post, but nobody saying why they are confused.

[The Greyhawk.9107]

4 hours ago, keenedge.9675 said:

F2P is already blocked from posting in forums.

So I had been previously informed....on this thread two months ago.

[Erick Alastor.3917]

To be honest I don't see it as a big problem.
If negative emojis make some people stop from reading your post, then you probably wouldn't want to know their opinions in the first place.
I'd be even up for a simply straight thumbs up and down, as long as it doesn't work like reddit where your post gets buried by dislikes, what's the harm of it? Why shouldn't people be allowed to disagree with something?
About the issue that people use alt accounts, then that could be looked into, if more than one account is owned by the same person, maybe that person should't be allowed to stack reactions with all of them, comments obviously should be still possible, but being reactions low effort feedback, it would mispresent the overall opinions of people on the matter you're talking about.

Edited July 24, 2021 by Erick Alastor.3917

[Epsilon Indi.2031]

Here's an easy solution;

Remove the anonymity from the reactions.

[hugo.4705]

11 hours ago, Linken.6345 said:

So if you can only see the positive icon how do you know its bigger then the people that are negative against the idea?

You don't. And I can understand the admins of that discord. It isn't how disputable the idea is that matters, but how much support and interest it has.

You just need a total of active posters:

This discord had around 240 members, if it had 120+ the idea was approved. (Over time the number went up or down to adapt to how many active users there was) it was kind of generous because that means half for, half against possibly. Transpose on gw2 forum if you want: A post that would get 20 stars would always matter more than one with 4. A question of numbers. Concerns can be expressed but as replies, it is a good thing because you have to explain the concern instead of a thumb down.

That system flooded to the surface ideas that were shared between many members of the community and got added to the game whereas ideas that seems to only please a few persons never got added or added later by modifying how the idea was written.

 

If we base ourselves on one of the recent news post (marionette update) there are 162 reactions. Which means with my system that an idea is for sure good with 122 stars. (3/4 for) A tier at 81 stars (1/2) can be considered but would be needed for the dev to scroll through the replies to see what is said to confirm or not addition of the idea. I take in account the active users/ what is the maximum number of emojis that can be received, not how many user having an account on forums and possibly not using it.

Again, I said at markers 122 and 81 but can be adapted to how many users react. A user post will never have as much reactions as dev post. And so we can consider 61 as approved and 40 as need debate. (Here ddfining that a user post will get 2x less reactions as dev).

Edited July 24, 2021 by hugo.4705

[Inculpatus cedo.9234]

7 hours ago, Erick Alastor.3917 said:

To be honest I don't see it as a big problem.
If negative emojis make some people stop from reading your post, then you probably wouldn't want to know their opinions in the first place.
I'd be even up for a simply straight thumbs up and down, as long as it doesn't work like reddit where your post gets buried by dislikes, what's the harm of it? Why shouldn't people be allowed to disagree with something?
About the issue that people use alt accounts, then that could be looked into, if more than one account is owned by the same person, maybe that person should't be allowed to stack reactions with all of them, comments obviously should be still possible, but being reactions low effort feedback, it would mispresent the overall opinions of people on the matter you're talking about.

It's actually against the Forum Code of Conduct to use more than one account on the forums (so no 'comments obviously should be still possible').

[Inculpatus cedo.9234]

7 hours ago, Sir Alymer.3406 said:

Here's an easy solution;

Remove the anonymity from the reactions.

I believe we had that at the beginning of the Vanilla forums. 

It didn't last long, due to popular demand. 

[Fuchslein.8639]

In itself, you can not take all this seriously anyway. Whether these smileys or up/downvote, people will always take advantage of it.

 

We already had a forum with up/downvote and we all know how that went. People find it hard to stay neutral and just ignore people and that even though we now have a block function.

 

I don't understand why we have to vote for something anyway. Neither an upvote nor a downvote says much. You could have the stupidest idea, which is absolutely not realizable but people will upvote you if it goes according to their interests and the same of course reversed.

 

 

[AliamRationem.5172]

I'm not an expert on forum design, but I wonder if providing some means of anonymously signaling disapproval/disagreement is necessary to avoid an overall decline in the quality of discourse?  It seems counter to the purpose of a forum.  We are here to discuss, yes?  But perhaps we don't need to hear the thoughts of people who, given even a fairly ambiguous outlet for ridicule such as the confused emoji, will opt for that instead of engaging in discussion? 

[Epsilon Indi.2031]

11 hours ago, Inculpatus cedo.9234 said:

I believe we had that at the beginning of the Vanilla forums. 

It didn't last long, due to popular demand. 

Yeah, toxic people tend to be the least secure in their persons so of course they'd hate being exposed for being garbage people.

How about instead of removing anonymity, you have to actually  give a reason why you're reacting the way you're reacting.

Edited July 24, 2021 by Sir Alymer.3406

[Inculpatus cedo.9234]

Um, yeah, no.

That wasn't the lament....at all.

 

It was how much space it took up in each post. 

It's always best not to jump to conclusions without any facts, whatsoever. 

[The Greyhawk.9107]

12 minutes ago, Inculpatus cedo.9234 said:

Um, yeah, no.

That wasn't the lament....at all.

 

It was how much space it took up in each post. 

It's always best not to jump to conclusions without any facts, whatsoever. 

Indubitably.  Wasn't very active those first handful of months on the Vanilla forum but yeah it was kinda ugly.

 

3 hours ago, Sir Alymer.3406 said:

Yeah, toxic people tend to be the least secure in their persons so of course they'd hate being exposed for being garbage people.

How about instead of removing anonymity, you have to actually  give a reason why you're reacting the way you're reacting.

There's more than one type of "Toxic People" my dude, think on that a bit. 

[Epsilon Indi.2031]

5 hours ago, Inculpatus cedo.9234 said:

Um, yeah, no.

That wasn't the lament....at all.

 

It was how much space it took up in each post. 

It's always best not to jump to conclusions without any facts, whatsoever. 

You know there's a way to design the UI to not be dumb and still show all the names right?  Discord does this with post reactions.  It's really not difficult.

[Fuchslein.8639]

50 minutes ago, Sir Alymer.3406 said:

You know there's a way to design the UI to not be dumb and still show all the names right?  Discord does this with post reactions.  It's really not difficult.

You are speaking of toxic people but why is it so important for you to see names? Instead of removing it all together?

Not metioning your'e way of speaking ... as someone said, there are different ways of being toxic ...

[Epsilon Indi.2031]

33 minutes ago, Fuchslein.8639 said:

You are speaking of toxic people but why is it so important for you to see names? Instead of removing it all together?

Not metioning your'e way of speaking ... as someone said, there are different ways of being toxic ...

It wouldn't just be me seeing the names.  Everyone would be able to see.  Sunlight is the best way to get rid of toxicity.

[Jski.6180]

54 minutes ago, Fuchslein.8639 said:

You are speaking of toxic people but why is it so important for you to see names? Instead of removing it all together?

Not metioning your'e way of speaking ... as someone said, there are different ways of being toxic ...

Well as far as i can tell if you "block" ppl on these forms you dont get the nonfiction spam that what one would call toxic players seems to like to do by retraction and then remove it and then reaction agen. Or i am not understanding how this form system works its very unclear. The easier trick would be to let you cut off reaction notification with out cutting off all notification.

Edited July 25, 2021 by Jski.6180

[Sobx.1758]

21 minutes ago, Sir Alymer.3406 said:

It wouldn't just be me seeing the names.  Everyone would be able to see.  Sunlight is the best way to get rid of toxicity.

Or maybe if the focus is on answering instead of spamming reaction emotes, the "solution" is to not have those emotes at all, so if you disagree with someone you actually have to show that in your post 🙄 

You're just taking extra steps to keep what you claim shouldn't be a thing in the first place, that doesn't make much sense.

 

Edited July 25, 2021 by Sobx.1758

[Epsilon Indi.2031]

37 minutes ago, Jski.6180 said:

Well as far as i can tell if you "block" ppl on these forms you dont get the nonfiction spam that what one would call toxic players seems to like to do by retraction and then remove it and then reaction agen. Or i am not understanding how this form system works its very unclear. The easier trick would be to let you cut off reaction notification with out cutting off all notification.

It'd be neat to just not be notified when someone reacts to a post you've made.  Reaction notifications don't seem all that useful, especially if you're trying to have a discussion in a hot thread and you have to constantly sift through notifications for reactions to find the notifications for replies.

[TwiceDead.1963]

You want the real solution? Having people just read and formulate opinions and respond in text from there; without any reactions at all. Sadly the world has largely moved on from that in the mainstream. 

 

Even worse is the idea that we shouldn't have any .."Negative" reactions. No downvotes, no disagreements, no confusions or sadness, ONLY VARIOUS SHADES OF AGREEMENT!

 

It gives the impression that people are just looking echo-chambers where your own opinion gets validated and regurgitated back and forth so much it bounces between the walls and echoes into eternity.

 

The current system is fine. Sad emotes when a post makes you sad. Confusion when you don't get it or you don't see the problem. Likes when you agree and thanks when someone said something you couldn't. If it confuses the OP so be it, they don't have to sit down and hypothetically decipher the sadness of their post.

 

I still prefer no options at all, but they are trying to garner forum engagement. Being able to click simple buttons instead of writing a mini-essay whenever you have an opinion is certainly going to help with that.

Edited July 25, 2021 by TwiceDead.1963