Pulls

[Svarty.8019]

Please can we nerf pulls? I know it means things being changed, and actual effort and stuff but I think it'd be for the best.

[Dawdler.8521]

Sure, if you also remove stability.

[XenesisII.1540]

Please can we nerf stealth? I know it means things being changed, and actual effort and stuff but I think it'd be for the best.

[googel.3278]

1 hour ago, Svarty.8019 said:

Please can we nerf pulls? I know it means things being changed, and actual effort and stuff but I think it'd be for the best.

 

did you get pulled off a cliff?

[Bast.7253]

Pulls don't belong in this game mode and mesmer focus needs to be gutted or redesigned.
 

Or at the very least have its radius drastically reduced. There's no reason I should be standing on the opposite side of a wall and yanked OVER the wall. 

 

[displayname.8315]

☐ Not REKT

☑ REKT

[Shroud.2307]

I'm not going to pretend Pulls are always easy to see coming in the chaos of a zerg, so getting pulled doesn't always mean you weren't paying attention. A lot of the time though, it does.

Mesmer Focus Pull is the most common and usually happens when a Commander is on Chrono and dropping Pulls for easier bombs. It is one of, if not the easiest Pulls to see coming as it has a very clear tell of a large purple line and an audio Q. As soon as the audio starts to louden is when you want to dodge, if you're relying on the sound rather than the visual.

There are various other Pulls, but most are single target and 9 times out of 10 will; miss, only Pull the target half the distance, get randomly dodged, Blinded, or denied by Stability, etc. It's unreliable at best and straight up ineffective at worst when the group you're against has extremely high Stab uptime, to the point the openings to actually Pull become useless because they've already gained momentum.

It doesn't feel good to get singled out by a Pull when it's a single target one that hits you. Sucks when freedom is at your fingertips and someone yanks you back in, but it's just something you need to be aware of. Can't have everything nerfed that you don't like (not necessarily saying that's how you feel).

Pulls are only ever a problem when several people are focusing it on a single person (ie. when there's a focus group targeting a commander), but even then it's just a matter of better support management because Stability is all it takes to counter this strategy, and most people will have 5 - 10 stacks of Stab at all times during a fight.

Edited May 24, 2021 by Shroud.2307

[ArchonWing.9480]

A question to all you Mesmer mains. Currently I'm just having fun moaing enemy commanders. I usually don't play complex classes so I'm having trouble with things that can't just be spammed.

 

I need some help on using Temporal Curtain. Apparently I can't make it the OP monstrosity people are claiming it to be. I keep being able to only pull people to the edge and never over anything. Do your place the thing underneath them on the wall or what? Or is it just impossible to pull people with half a brain?

I am sorry i have nothing to offer you besides possibly people making more cry  threads on this matter. I pledge to pull at least 100 people per post on the matter. But thanks anyways.

Edited May 24, 2021 by ArchonWing.9480

[Jski.6180]

Pulls are realty good for a game like where you can bunker up and never die with the right support. The one thing pulls need now is more of an tell. Maybe an "you are getting pulled" debuff that lets you dodge a pull before it lands? Or even let you dodge during the pull it self to brake the full pull effect.

[Gotejjeken.1267]

I usually run with a build that has ZERO sustain and not even I want pulls removed.  In my experience, if you get pulled you (in order from most to least likely):

 

•  Are standing on a wall, far, FAR too close to the edge
•  Are running in a straight line
•  Are standing in the back of a group trying not to be noticed (but they can smell your lack of confidence)
•  Are being focused because you are a threat

Edited May 24, 2021 by Gotejjeken.1267

[Veprovina.4876]

This again? 🙄

[Bast.7253]

27 minutes ago, Gotejjeken.1267 said:

I usually run with a build that has ZERO sustain and not even I want pulls removed.  In my experience, if you get pulled you (in order from most to least likely):

 

•  Are standing on a wall, far, FAR too close to the edge
•  Are running in a straight line
•  Are standing in the back of a group trying not to be noticed (but they can smell your lack of confidence)
•  Are being focused because you are a threat

You don't have to be close to the edge. That's the point.

You can be standing on the other side of the wall and the focus will pull you up and over the wall. 

Obviously there are other issues here where it becomes unavoidable, like a team fight where you're out of dodges and your stab has been stripped. But either way,  they're really overkill in this game mode where you have MANY MANY MANY other snaring and rooting abilities. It's kind of pointless trying to defend a tower with siege when you have people that can just pull you off of it or pull you off of a wall.

 

[jemdarr.2158]

The problem is that: Standing on a wall should be the advantage position. In GW2 it isn't. That's a real kitten design for a game that is about sieging and fighting for structures.

And pulls are a problem, because they often ignore walls

[LionZero.3479]

The main problem with pulls is Anet's inability to have them work mechanically consistent.

Pulls very often desync pull way past the intended range after someone mobility's off and then there's times aswell where pulls get the line of sight treatment of having no los when there's just flat terrain.

Perhaps we should just kill pulls that bypass block/evade to at least minimize the chance of inconsistenty with this mechanic at a little.

Or maybe Anet just needs to ''get good'' and code some consistency in this mechanic. (which is probably inpossible in wvwvw with their current client sided position forwarding to server setup, maybe they need to have the client give more position updates to server during mobility skills that overrule the pull if it's out of range)

[XenesisII.1540]

If you're going to sit on top of the wall to watch the zerg below you, then do it on your mount, or play a class with stability or blink or some type of invul, don't expect to stand above them freely and not get pulled and bombed on. Walls aren't meant to make you completely immune to combat effects, just there to temporarily hold back attackers.

 

Play smarter.

[anduriell.6280]

10 hours ago, Svarty.8019 said:

Please can we nerf pulls? I know it means things being changed, and actual effort and stuff but I think it'd be for the best.

Some cheesy pulls need to add something so they are not as cheesy. 

 

 Temporal Curtain and Scorpion Wire  are the worst offenders in this case. Curtain because of the no animation with a 600 radius pull and scopion wire because it does not have any counterplay or visible animation. 

 

Pulls should follow the design of Chapter 3: Heated Rebuke, Prelude Lash  or Hunter's Verdict, those are well designed pulls. 

[wondermuffin.9680]

1 hour ago, anduriell.6280 said:

Some cheesy pulls need to add something so they are not as cheesy. 

 

 Temporal Curtain and Scorpion Wire  are the worst offenders in this case. Curtain because of the no animation with a 600 radius pull and scopion wire because it does not have any counterplay or visible animation. 

 

Pulls should follow the design of Chapter 3: Heated Rebuke, Prelude Lash  or Hunter's Verdict, those are well designed pulls. 

What do you think of Spectral Grasp? :) 

[Obe.4283]

How will i enjoy my time on desert BL if you nerf pulls? This is unacceptable, we need less stability and more ping pong. (Old video to illustrate why we need this)

 

 

[TheGrimm.5624]

18 hours ago, Svarty.8019 said:

Please can we nerf pulls? I know it means things being changed, and actual effort and stuff but I think it'd be for the best.

 

Of two minds here. We need more pulls when you are talking about pulls pulling people out of zerg balls in open field and less pulls when you are talking people standing on walls. For walls I would have the walls provide some low level of stability while standing on walls. There should still be options to pull them but the fact that walls are death traps for defenders mean they are really nothing more than funnelling points for fights. But without collision in game they don't even serve that point in reality. So any additional insight in which way you are referring to would be welcome.

[Zepoolpe.9217]

14 hours ago, ArchonWing.9480 said:

Currently I'm just having fun moaing enemy commanders.

❤️

[Bast.7253]

13 hours ago, jemdarr.2158 said:

The problem is that: Standing on a wall should be the advantage position. In GW2 it isn't. That's a real kitten design for a game that is about sieging and fighting for structures.

And pulls are a problem, because they often ignore walls

And siege weapons in general feel pretty pointless when line of sight forces them to be placed ontop of a wall in a place where you're susceptible to pulls or gravity wells even if you're just out of range of necro marks and meteor showers. Obviously if there are only 5 people defending against 50 the tower is going to be lost anyway and you shouldn't be able to hold off 50 people with that few.

But the fact that siege weapons don't even give you a chance to hold them off for reinforcements because they'rre vulnerable to aoe makes them a waste of supply. Perhaps if they had them work similarly to the Trebuchet in Battle for Khylo so that you could place them inside the tower/keep and didn't need direct line of sight outside of a ballista it would make them a little more rewarding to build. 

Another option is negating the damage and cc a player receives while using a siege weapon. If you're going to make the siege weapons vulnerable to player damage instead of just other siege weapon damage, then make the player immunie while using the siege weapons forcing the other team to focus the siege weapons down first. 

The biggest problem with that would be the 50 vs 50 zergs with the defending team having an even higher advantage, so perhaps another option is increasing the effectiveness by the amount of missing friendly players in the area. Fewer people defending the stronger the siege weapons become. This could obviously be exploited if it applied to trebuchets so there would likely have to be a cap - or the damage increase would have to not apply to enemy buildings.

Either way, defending feels pretty pointless when your numbers are drastically lower and I'm not sure that's what they intended when they created the plethora of siege weapons they have. It might have been less of an issue in core before elite specs came out and access to things like barrier and more aoe healing came into play, or resolution reducing the damage from bleeds and burning, but at this point they seem less effective than they should be.

Curtain ignoring los rules is still annoying though. If you're defending a wall and you see a curtain, you can move away from it but the range of effect isn't very obvious and even if you move, you're likely moving into a meteor shower or 30 necro marks. But that goes back into.. defending being pointless and being better off waypointing out and giving them the tower. 

I suppose all of this ties into the other issue - the fact that some teams will intentionally wait until they know no commanders are on the other side and the population is low and attack then. I guess that's strategy but it makes for a pretty dull experience for the few people trying to defend. 

[Za Shaloc.3908]

11 hours ago, anduriell.6280 said:

Some cheesy pulls need to add something so they are not as cheesy. 

 

 Temporal Curtain and Scorpion Wire  are the worst offenders in this case. Curtain because of the no animation with a 600 radius pull and scopion wire because it does not have any counterplay or visible animation. 

 

Pulls should follow the design of Chapter 3: Heated Rebuke, Prelude Lash  or Hunter's Verdict, those are well designed pulls. 

 

Wait what? Scorpion Wire, the buggiest pull in the game, has "no counterplay" (lol, see: aegis, bubble, reflect, block, dodge, blade of grass, pebble), but Hunter's Verdict, a pull that is unblockable on the tether, unevadable on the pull, and that you can wait out stab with because of the tether duration, is well designed? Can't believe I am reading this.

 

Scorp Wire works best against wall humpers that go on the ledge, but at that point it is not the skill that is the issue, it is the issue of the player who thinks they can freecast on a wall ledge and actually get away with it against players with even the smallest degree of awareness.

Edited May 24, 2021 by Za Shaloc.3908

[TheGrimm.5624]

1 hour ago, Bast.7253 said:

Either way, defending feels pretty pointless when your numbers are drastically lower and I'm not sure that's what they intended when they created the plethora of siege weapons they have. It might have been less of an issue in core before elite specs came out and access to things like barrier and more aoe healing came into play, or resolution reducing the damage from bleeds and burning, but at this point they seem less effective than they should be.

 

 

I think it's related to changes in direction and teams in the original intent ideas more so than I would for elite specs being tankier. Full glass couldn't stand in AC fire before and say they still can't. Where as non-glass and even more so for tank builds asked before what people were complaining about. I think also differences in servers and experiences and population sizes impacted it. For one group it was about not being able to take a defended keep from the same size of defenders, be that right or wrong. For the group looking at it as a 50 attacking to 10 defenders they could barely delay to allow defenders to appear to what's the point they will be thru the wall before we can type it out in map chat let alone for people to make it to the event. Again not saying neither right or wrong that 10 should slow 50 but....that's the issue. Logic was adjusted more in favor of 50v50 where as in reality what happens more are the 50 v 10 currently and that just means its RIP.  Decreasing the odds of defenders in a 50 v 50 where they should have an edge has even more impact when something is under defended.

 

No, I think original intent was full on fights with siege and counter siege. But counter offensive siege today is still under utilized and down right frowned upon at times, but I would say that was its intent. Ram, counter it with AC, AC counter it with AC or Balli or Cata. Cata counter with Balli, Cannon, Mort, Treb. Treb counter Treb else sally fourth and clear the attacking Treb on foot.

[ArchonWing.9480]

14 hours ago, XenesisII.1540 said:

If you're going to sit on top of the wall to watch the zerg below you, then do it on your mount, or play a class with stability or blink or some type of invul, don't expect to stand above them freely and not get pulled and bombed on. Walls aren't meant to make you completely immune to combat effects, just there to temporarily hold back attackers.

 

Play smarter.

 

Yea basically the whole thing is answered with "what is a stunbreak"

 

Unless one is a popular commander, a stunbreak and dodge is usually enough to survive. Although when I decide to wallhump I usually look at the escape route if pulled (nearby portal or just gliding off like @ hills)

 

 Judging by previous comments you'd think mesmers have some vacuum cleaner that sucks everything towards them.

Edited May 24, 2021 by ArchonWing.9480

[Sleepwalker.1398]

Weird no one's said anything about Reaper pull enemy off walls.

Just stand close to wall, GS 5 and press jump as the skill casts.