Please stop wasting resources on the story

[Loke.1429]

3 hours ago, Bobby Stein.3612 said:

I appreciate the kind words. I'd much rather engage in healthy conversation--even when it's a difficult one--than leave a discussion feeling as if no connections were made. Thanks for being patient and chatting with me about this. I know the Internet can be a hostile place but it is what we make it and I'd much prefer to just talk with y'all when I can. It doesn't have to be awkward or contentious. 🙂

 

While I'm not at liberty to share about the ongoing discussions we have internally, just know that they do indeed happen, we're aware of what different groups in our community are talking about, and we try to consider as many viewpoints as possible. I and others often talk about the things we're hearing from the community inside the game and on social media, so even though they're considered anecdotal we take them into account along with things like metrics.

 

Re: Cantha, we'll be talking about it more in the future. Can't say any more than that right now. 😉

 

Anyway, I have to get back to work. Thanks for sharing your thoughts, for your candidness, and for your kind words. I hope you all have a great day.

Regarding metrics, I have to point out the that different game modes also reward you with very different amounts of gold / progression per hour played. WvW is the worst in that regard. You give us an in-game monetary incentive to play other game modes instead. This affects popularity and introduces bias to your metrics. My job is with metrics and I imagine how flawed they can be. Don't trust them blindly. Making accurate and smart metrics is very difficult.

[Dib.4612]

Only useful thing I can add to this conversation is:
When a lot of resources are used to make story and open world content, then I'd love to see some heavy reuse of new assets in challenging instanced content. This is of course none of the narrative devs business. However I can't help but feel that all of those Balthazar and Forged assets would've made a great raid. A bit like the 'Hall of Chains' raid, but then Balthazar themed. Back to the Fissure of Woe...  

Something, I guess, does concern the narrative devs is the fact that Balthazar is 'dead' and thus making a Fissure of Woe raid with him as the boss could be problematic on that end. Or is there a loophole?

Edited June 15, 2021 by Dibbelocher.2318

[Tyson.5160]

2 hours ago, Dibbelocher.2318 said:

Only useful thing I can add to this conversation is:
When a lot of resources are used to make story and open world content, then I'd love to see some heavy reuse of new assets in challenging instanced content. This is of course none of the narrative devs business. However I can't help but feel that all of those Balthazar and Forged assets would've made a great raid. A bit like the 'Hall of Chains' raid, but then Balthazar themed. Back to the Fissure of Woe...  

Something, I guess, does concern the narrative devs is the fact that Balthazar is 'dead' and thus making a Fissure of Woe raid with him as the boss could be problematic on that end. Or is there a loophole?

Not necessarily, they could have used forged and the shadow army models from Dragonfall, for a Fissure of Woe Raid, maybe have the end boss be Menzies or a remnant of him? Could go into Balthazar’s back story as well.

[Weindrasi.3805]

Without the story, I would stop playing. I don't care about competitive endgame content, combat, and quality of life improvements. 

[Bobby Stein.3612]

Quote

Only useful thing I can add to this conversation is:
When a lot of resources are used to make story and open world content, then I'd love to see some heavy reuse of new assets in challenging instanced content. This is of course none of the narrative devs business. 

Actually, this is smart and definitely something that Narrative is thinking about with our Design partners. Anything we can do to make the game better--and IMO that includes finding ways to give people more of what they want outside of story content--is something we should be concerned about. We've done a bit of that with strikes so far.

[Zola.6197]

2 hours ago, Bobby Stein.3612 said:

Actually, this is smart and definitely something that Narrative is thinking about with our Design partners. Anything we can do to make the game better--and IMO that includes finding ways to give people more of what they want outside of story content--is something we should be concerned about. We've done a bit of that with strikes so far.

Adding on this, one thing I did enjoy about Champions/DRMs (and S2’s format — all those priory instances) was returning to old maps. I would love to see more of that in the future for story content, especially if it frees up some devs for other content and allows Narrative to really dig into the characters/their arcs. Of course I don’t know how it all works, but I imagine reusing old maps/assets alleviates some dev pressure. In general it’s just nice to get an update on older locales, and there are so many great maps that already exist I’d never be upset for an excuse to return to them — especially if that allows the characters and stories to really shine.

 

Any gripes about Champions aside, the character interactions in the DRMs were some of the most compelling and illuminating exchanges in the game in my opinion.

Edited June 23, 2021 by Zola.6197

[Aens.2713]

I agree very much with that last statement from Bobby. There are very cool story fights that would benefit from replayability as a fractal, raid or strike. As long as you don't create yet another new system for it, we would be okay. Instead of re-inventing the wheel just evolve and upgrade existing systems with existing assets, I think that's what most people want and it would add a lot of content to the game. Can you imagine 20 raids instead of 7? Fractals without repetitions? 20 strikes? I would pay for it (mandatory comment: please don't gate them behind a paywall xD).

Edited June 23, 2021 by Elrey.5472

[Sajuuk Khar.1509]

3 hours ago, Elrey.5472 said:

I agree very much with that last statement from Bobby. There are very cool story fights that would benefit from replayability as a fractal, raid or strike. As long as you don't create yet another new system for it, we would be okay. Instead of re-inventing the wheel just evolve and upgrade existing systems with existing assets, I think that's what most people want and it would add a lot of content to the game. Can you imagine 20 raids instead of 7? Fractals without repetitions? 20 strikes? I would pay for it (mandatory comment: please don't gate them behind a paywall xD).

The problem with this line of thinking is that things like Raids and Strikes have already proven to be... unpopular.

 

Raids, and raid like content, has become increasingly unpopular among a wide swath of the MMO market. The reason being that most people who play MMOs do so casually, and most casual players don't care about raids.

 

Strikes were meant to serve as Raid primers, teaching people raid like mechanics in an easier environment to prep them for doing actual raids. The problem with Strikes is that people who didn't do raids didn't do them not because they didn't know how, or couldn't have learned, but because they didn't WANT to do them, and didn't want to learn how to do them. Ultimately, Strikes were meant to solve a problem of ignorance, when the real problem was apathy, which is why they failed.

 

Game devs aren't going to pour a lot of money into content like Raids, Strikes, Fractals, etc. when something like only 20% or less of the playerbase is going to play them.

 

Anet keeps "reinventing the wheel" because the previous wheels they have tried have already proven to simply not work in a viable fashion. Making more Raids/Fractals/Strikes isn't going to solve the problem of most people not wanting to do them, which in turn means spending money to make them isn't worthwhile when they could spend that money to make more general PVE content.

Edited June 23, 2021 by Sajuuk Khar.1509

[HotDelirium.7984]

4 hours ago, Sajuuk Khar.1509 said:

The problem with this line of thinking is that things like Raids and Strikes have already proven to be... unpopular.

 

Raids, and raid like content, has become increasingly unpopular among a wide swath of the MMO market. The reason being that most people who play MMOs do so casually, and most casual players don't care about raids.

 

Strikes were meant to serve as Raid primers, teaching people raid like mechanics in an easier environment to prep them for doing actual raids. The problem with Strikes is that people who didn't do raids didn't do them not because they didn't know how, or couldn't have learned, but because they didn't WANT to do them, and didn't want to learn how to do them. Ultimately, Strikes were meant to solve a problem of ignorance, when the real problem was apathy, which is why they failed.

 

Game devs aren't going to pour a lot of money into content like Raids, Strikes, Fractals, etc. when something like only 20% or less of the playerbase is going to play them.

 

Anet keeps "reinventing the wheel" because the previous wheels they have tried have already proven to simply not work in a viable fashion. Making more Raids/Fractals/Strikes isn't going to solve the problem of most people not wanting to do them, which in turn means spending money to make them isn't worthwhile when they could spend that money to make more general PVE content.

Even though the boat has sailed I do agree about the need to reeinvent the wheel constantly. Other games have raids that auto group people in queue and you just do the content, with a slight learning curve. Hard content should always be in addition to baseline content and then casual people would be able to basically play everything. Instead of raids we could have gotten 25 more fractals and then the entire community would have played that content as well.

 

In addition, the game does need to do a slightly better job at letting you know that to be your best self in instances you really do need a build that synergizes with your abilities as well as having appropriate runes, sigils and food and utility buffs.

[Grand Marshal.4098]

Talking about this content re-use, one thing that felt missing from champions was uuhh, Primordus' deal with the magic of the other dragons.. 

 

You know, that massive plot point back in S3. 

 

And how we got Phlunt having a single panel dialogue saying Primordus somehow absorbed all the magic, no biggie. 

 

At least Kralk showed struggle trying to not let the other powers overtake him. Primordus was chilling, woke up and was like 2012 Primordus (actions, speculated powers, minions). 

 

Like kitten those Ember Bay destroyers were so good and had to be reused imo. A shame they weren't..even as elites in instances or veterans. 

[Teratus.2859]

On 6/15/2021 at 9:11 PM, Tyson.5160 said:

Not necessarily, they could have used forged and the shadow army models from Dragonfall, for a Fissure of Woe Raid, maybe have the end boss be Menzies or a remnant of him? Could go into Balthazar’s back story as well.

Aye a few of us have talked about this sort of thing in the past and Menzies has come up quite a few times as well.

Fissure of Woe is kind of a big deal story and has been since more or less the start of Gw2 when Balth left Tyria.
What happened with his Realm and Menzies?.. we don't know.

Then he comes back in season 3 and we kill him in Path of Fire.
Then Kralkatorrik smashed through a chunk of it in season 4 and Aurine pulled a piece of it into Tyria.

It just keeps building up questions lol
I would love to know what's happening in the Fissure of Woe.. and what Menzies has been up to all this time.

[Sajuuk Khar.1509]

6 hours ago, Grand Marshal.4098 said:

Talking about this content re-use, one thing that felt missing from champions was uuhh, Primordus' deal with the magic of the other dragons.. 

 

You know, that massive plot point back in S3. 

 

And how we got Phlunt having a single panel dialogue saying Primordus somehow absorbed all the magic, no biggie. 

 

At least Kralk showed struggle trying to not let the other powers overtake him. Primordus was chilling, woke up and was like 2012 Primordus (actions, speculated powers, minions). 

 

Like kitten those Ember Bay destroyers were so good and had to be reused imo. A shame they weren't..even as elites in instances or veterans. 

We saw Primordus use some of Kralk's tricks. Like I don't recall him doing the giant flaming meteor thing from the DRMs back in core, or LWS3. That was something Kralk did back in LWS4, like in Istan. Likewise, he seems to have gained the same "resonance" with his minions Kralk had. With Destroyers getting more powerful the more they burn. Also, Phulnt didn't say Primordus absorbed the magic, only that he processed it.

 

Jormag seems to have picked up Kralk's habit of trapping people in Crystals. Though Jormag's ice seems to last a lot longer.

Edited June 27, 2021 by Sajuuk Khar.1509

[Ashantara.8731]

On 5/29/2021 at 1:29 PM, Dami.5046 said:

The problem is, what could be seen as 'crap' for you might be great for someone else. Take IBS gate, everyone moaning about how it ended, that it was too short, etc and I don't give a monkey's.🤣

 

That you don't give a monkey's doesn't mean it was well-written or well-executed, though. It could as well be that your expectations of GW2's writing are very low or that you have lost all interest in the game's story, possibly due to its bad writing. Or your priorities might simply lie on other aspects of the game.

[VAHNeunzehnsechundsiebzig.]

I love story.

I also love wvw.

 

Story got a big kick in the not-to-mention-area with Icebrood saga.

WvW gets a kick with every 'balance patch'.

 

Give wvw at least decent rewards. Why not?

[Dami.5046]

14 hours ago, Ashantara.8731 said:

 

That you don't give a monkey's doesn't mean it was well-written or well-executed, though. It could as well be that your expectations of GW2's writing are very low or that you have lost all interest in the game's story, possibly due to its bad writing. Or your priorities might simply lie on other aspects of the game.

I think the first games story was much better for various reasons, to put a finer point on it : I could happily re-run Guild wars1 story for ALL campaigns, than the painful 'I'm so marvellous' Commander they made us all in this one. I only have one Character that has done every story here, most haven't even finished their personal stories. At least in the first game you might of had a quest, a cut scene here and there, but it mostly about the missions and doing things. Time is  precious. And for me, personally i'd rather be doing more than a story line which makes me just stand there 'listening' to an NPC moan on. While the story *might* be amazing it's too long winded and drawn out *for content*.

But yes the story certainly at times has bored my socks off.  To the point i'm glad IBS is done and gone and Cantha is around the corner.

Edited June 28, 2021 by Dami.5046

[Razor.6392]

Story = one time content for single players that is cleared within 1-2 hours after release.

 

Pvp, raids, endgame, wvw, etc = replayable content.

 

Often when playing gw2 I ask myself "ok cool, I crafted this cool legendary now what do I do? go do modeling at Lion's Arch?" because none of the current game modes really keeps you coming back for more. Wvw and pvp are pointless and pve is repetitive.

 

There's no clear objective to grind towards aside from making really long cosmetic journeys, but where do I show those off? I'd like to not just have these 'cosmetic journeys' but actually something gameplay / prestige related.

Edited June 28, 2021 by Razor.6392