Staff Mirage still needs a nerfby a significant amount, Dueling Illusions Axe/Torch+Pistol Mirage is supposed to be the dps class right but there's no way it can compete.

[Ardenwolfe.8590]

The part you forgot is raiding is PvE. And your suggestions also affect open world PvE. Didn't think I needed to spell that out, but here we are.

 

We're done.

Edited June 1, 2021 by Ardenwolfe.8590

[necromaniac.7629]

17 minutes ago, Ardenwolfe.8590 said:

And? Seriously? And? Are the PvE mobs complaining? Who cares if it isn't a challenge or easy for you? The point of the game is to have fun. It's not to destroy someone else's enjoyment because anyone else perceives something isn't to their specific liking. You don't like it? Don't play it.

 

If you ask ArenaNet to nerf anything, they're not going to use a delicate hand. They're going to use a sledgehammer. After years and years of nerfs, if you don't get that, then there's nothing more to discuss.

You're just biased, simple, and this topic is about END GAME PVE CONTENT NOT OPEN WORLDS MOBS OMEGALUL??? 

[necromaniac.7629]

4 minutes ago, mordefelix.5826 said:

Lmao no one here is arguing about your kitten PvE mobs. We're talking about kittening raids. Why would I give a kitten about any PvE mob open world crap? You can literally just press one with any class and breeze through the content there. 

lmao ikr no one cares about ow mobs...like what?

[mordefelix.5826]

 

7 minutes ago, Ardenwolfe.8590 said:

The part you forgot is raiding is PvE. And your suggestions also affect open world PvE. Didn't think I needed to spell that out, but here we are.

 

We're done.

Lmao? You have yet to address any legitimate points I've made in the previous posts. But yes keep going king. You done slayed me YASSS. Let's not balance the game at all because WE LOVE BROKEN AFK BRAINDEAD STUFF! 😄 just because ANET uses a sledgehammer does not mean the COMMUNITY SHOULD NOT COMPLAIN about DUMB kitten. Just do some kittening semblance of balance. And if they hit WAY overboard then we should shut up? Lmao wut? Bruh you're not gonna see ANY GAMER community EVER be quiet about something that makes the game unfun. That's some crazy thinking right there. WE SHOULD be criticizing changes regardless if they go overboard on making something crazy overpowered or going way too hard on the nerf bat. That's HOW WE THE COMMUNITY should be interacting with them. I can't believe I have to "spell that out, but here we are." 😉

 

Edited June 1, 2021 by mordefelix.5826

[mordefelix.5826]

9 minutes ago, necromaniac.7629 said:

lmao ikr no one cares about ow mobs...like what?

And to be fair I do understand why these people are jaded but this logic is like just unfathomably bad attitude to have regardless of how Anet decides its approach. Let's not complain ever about kitten stuff because they'll nerf it hard. That's ????????? Incredibly big brained from these people

[Obtena.7952]

31 minutes ago, Ardenwolfe.8590 said:

And? Seriously? And? Are the PvE mobs complaining? Who cares if it isn't a challenge or easy for you? The point of the game is to have fun. It's not to destroy someone else's enjoyment because anyone else perceives something isn't to their specific liking. You don't like it? Don't play it.

 

If you ask ArenaNet to nerf anything, they're not going to use a delicate hand. They're going to use a sledgehammer. After years and years of nerfs, if you don't get that, then there's nothing more to discuss.

No hold on. The argument isn't about being challenging or easy. It's about trivializing the game so you don't actually have to think to play it, like at all. There is NO case for being able to do what can be done on staff mirage by just dodging and pressing 1. I have YET to find a player who can't play this build successfully, regardless of how little they know about Mesmer and it's skills and how they work. That's a very bad thing for the game. 

[Ardenwolfe.8590]

1 hour ago, Veprovina.4876 said:

I give up.

Same. Otherwise, well said. Time to play my mesmer before it gets gutted to oblivion like my druid.

[mordefelix.5826]

Lmao some people in this community really think we should just not say anything. Incredible stuff

Edited June 1, 2021 by mordefelix.5826

[mordefelix.5826]

6 minutes ago, Ardenwolfe.8590 said:

Same. Otherwise, well said. Time to play my mesmer before it gets gutted to oblivion like my druid.

Bruh what. Now I know I just can't trust a word you say. Druid is still meta and needed for nearly almost every boss and extremely useful/ AND dare I say necessary for high end content. This kinda confirmed to me how incredibly out of touch you are and how illogical this is.

Edited June 1, 2021 by mordefelix.5826

[mordefelix.5826]

6 minutes ago, Obtena.7952 said:

No hold on. The argument isn't about being challenging or easy. It's about trivializing the game so you don't actually have to think to play it, like at all. There is NO case for being able to do what can be done on staff mirage by just dodging and pressing 1. I have YET to find a player who can't play this build successfully, regardless of how little they know about Mesmer and it's skills and how they work. That's a very bad thing for the game. 

Yas King Go (Unironically.) That was well said 

[Veprovina.4876]

2 hours ago, Leonidrex.5649 said:

I understand what you are coming from and you are probably right.
you are afraid they will 
1 shaft it into unusability
or 
2 make a nerf that will nerf entirety of mesmer to " balance " it, and it might not even be good anyways.
but those are no excuses for current state of cmes. I would rather mesmer be medicore then be this kittening broken.
Its just not right. Cmon, we are better then this.

I'm not even talking about the current state of cmes at all, just the way people are reacting to what happened. It paints an ungreatful and lousy picture of the Mesmer community and Anet will stop bothering with us, just sledgehammer Mesmer to the ground and swipe the remains under a rug. Then who will be to blame? Cause Anet won't anymore.

 

As far as cmes goes, i like staff, and some of the complaints are valid while others are downright puzzling. But whatever people's "thoughts" on things, the way they're presented just seems as there's nothing pleasing this community and as a developer, your only response to that type of thing is just not doing anything at all. Cause if someone can't be happy about anything they do and everything they do is wrong - then what's the poin of doing anything? Just nerf the class to trash tier, never speak of it again and let people be dissatisfied while you as a developer don't have to think about balancing the class ever again. Cause what's the difference in trying and getting hate VS not trying and getting hate? Well, someone's time and effort.

[AliamRationem.5172]

I've always been a fan of staff as a defensive weapon and for a dead easy playstyle that can handle most anything the game throws at you.  I've done open world videos featuring it and have recommended it to new players for years.  Having said that, I am at a total loss here.  How can you possibly think it's okay to make staff the best weapon for basically everything and why is mirage out-doing chrono on alacrity?  Are you guys serious with this?

 

Is this the same team that brought us Pyromancer's Puissance?  Can we please take the dev keys away?  I think you're a danger to the game at this point!

Edited June 1, 2021 by AliamRationem.5172

[mordefelix.5826]

 

18 minutes ago, AliamRationem.5172 said:

I've always been a fan of staff as a defensive weapon and for a dead easy playstyle that can handle most anything the game throws at you.  I've done open world videos featuring it and have recommended it to new players for years.  Having said that, I am at a total loss here.  How can you possibly think it's okay to make staff the best weapon for basically everything and why is mirage out-doing chrono on alacrity?  Are you guys serious with this?

 

Is this the same team that brought us Pyromancer's Puissance?  Can we please take the dev keys away?  I think you're a danger to the game at this point!

XD Your last sentence had me chuckling a little 

Edited June 1, 2021 by mordefelix.5826

[Mungo Zen.9364]

25 minutes ago, Veprovina.4876 said:

I'm not even talking about the current state of cmes at all, just the way people are reacting to what happened. It paints an ungreatful and lousy picture of the Mesmer community and Anet will stop bothering with us, just sledgehammer Mesmer to the ground and swipe the remains under a rug. Then who will be to blame? Cause Anet won't anymore.

 

As far as cmes goes, i like staff, and some of the complaints are valid while others are downright puzzling. But whatever people's "thoughts" on things, the way they're presented just seems as there's nothing pleasing this community and as a developer, your only response to that type of thing is just not doing anything at all. Cause if someone can't be happy about anything they do and everything they do is wrong - then what's the poin of doing anything? Just nerf the class to trash tier, never speak of it again and let people be dissatisfied while you as a developer don't have to think about balancing the class ever again. Cause what's the difference in trying and getting hate VS not trying and getting hate? Well, someone's time and effort.

i don’t think the game development team works like you think it does. 
 

The development team will continue to make changes to this profession not based upon any one thing we the players do.  They won’t be punitive or neglectful, they will simply make changes to the professions when they see fit for reasons that they deem correct. 
 

as in my prior post, they told us Chronomancer was over powered. Did anyone in the community feel this way?  Did anyone consider that Mesmer were in a great and potentially top tier position before the May 11 patch?  We’re players asking for Mesmer to be nerfed because it was overpowered?

 

the developers felt this to be true and made changes for the entire profession based upon this.  
 

on paper the changes make sense, soften one eSpec and buff the other to expand playability. Except no one is talking about the balanced and strong Chrono builds now are they. 
 

I personally am neither here nor there with the changes.  Mirage has a playstyle that I don’t enjoy and I do enjoy non-meta Chrono builds still so, it is what it is.  
 

I do understand the lash back from the community tho. A good portion of the Mesmer community appear to be bracing for a Nerf and no one wants to get nerfed. More so, it sounds like they want to get ahead of the nerf and offer some better alternatives for change. 
 

as we have seen though, the developers will do what they want regardless of our collective handwringing and moaning. 

[Daniel Handler.4816]

23 hours ago, Blood Red Arachnid.2493 said:

I hate the inconsistent profession design between buffers.

 

Alacrigade: Needs boon duration to be effective

Quickness Scrapper: Needs toon duration to be effective.

Quickness Chrono: No boon duration needed

Alacrimirage: No boon duration needed.

Quickbrand:  Needs a rune set

 

I'm going to be "that guy" and say I pondered this in the past, but I really did.  The introduction of Diviners creates an issue in balancing:  Either you make all boons inept to encourage people to use Diviners, or you make all boons good so Diviners is superfluous.  The recent balance patch has given us no clear message, aside from that there's no internal consistency on this  

Why would there be consistency between professions on this? They have different dps and support output. 

 

 

Edited June 1, 2021 by Daniel Handler.4816

[Daniel Handler.4816]

59 minutes ago, AliamRationem.5172 said:

I've always been a fan of staff as a defensive weapon and for a dead easy playstyle that can handle most anything the game throws at you.  I've done open world videos featuring it and have recommended it to new players for years.  Having said that, I am at a total loss here.  How can you possibly think it's okay to make staff the best weapon for basically everything and why is mirage out-doing chrono on alacrity?  Are you guys serious with this?

They would never let chrono compete with renegade because chrono has quickness. Giving it to mirage is weird but for the best.

Edited June 1, 2021 by Daniel Handler.4816

[Blood Red Arachnid.2493]

19 minutes ago, Daniel Handler.4816 said:

Why would there be consistency between professions on this? They have different dps and support output. 

 

 

Balance.  Anet has essentially made a useless spec (quickscrap) and rendered alacrigade obsolete, because everything they contribute to groups is handled better by a profession with more damage and more boons.  

[Daniel Handler.4816]

15 minutes ago, Blood Red Arachnid.2493 said:

Balance.  Anet has essentially made a useless spec (quickscrap) and rendered alacrigade obsolete, because everything they contribute to groups is handled better by a profession with more damage and more boons.  

Mirage is condi. Alacrigade is power. And I'm guessing scrapper has too much support to be allowed to have high dps or boon output. You might as well give quickness to druid at that point. 

 

Edit: correct me if I'm wrong. Quickscrap does more damage than healbrand but less than quickbrand? 

Edited June 1, 2021 by Daniel Handler.4816

[Senqu.8054]

Why should we be „grateful“? In two years ANet deleted or overnerfed literally every single build I played. Heck, they deleted a dodge! They ignored Mesmer 1 whole year because they wanted to buff mirage again by reducing every single CD of it with a boon that defines a other espec from this profession and balanced the whole thing out by nerfing core.

Every change done to mirage automatically influenced all other builds I had. Slowly I begin to hate mirage because even if I do not play it on a regular, it destroys all other ways to play. I have 5 ascending armor sets for my WvW Mesmer that I need to change every single patch, because ALL my builds, that used to be semi viable, are now pure crap again. Traits are gone, builds are gone, everything gone.

 

Right now, I personally had never less ways to play this profession. 

Edited June 1, 2021 by Senqu.8054

[AshkyLicious.4729]

I give up aswell... I get where people come from from both sides and yes Staff in its current state has for once made it easier to play as a mirage. But as people has stated already, asking for nerfs for mesmer usually ends pretty bad for us.

 

I dont like that they are trivializing our class either, but HEY! it's already been done to most other classes in this game?! While we were killing ourselves to be able to deliver decent damage in this game, other classes delivers great damage with way less skill.

 

If I remember correctly people in the mesmer forum were complaining about how unfair it is to play mesmer, how we need to be way more skilled (and still do kitten damage) while the other classes dont need to.

"Either they simplify mesmer like the other classes or they make it more complex for other classes like it is for us!" - Posts like this were regularly posted.

 

So Anet chose the easy way, to try to simplify mesmer instead of working with all the other classes and make them more complex (prob since that would be more time consuming for them).

 

This is the direction that Anet has decided to take for now... do I like it? No! But do I always want to have pain in my hands after all complex rotations, combos etc. just to be able to do average to decent damage (which is a BLIP in the radar compared to the damage coming from other classes) in this game because of how my class is designed compared to other classes? No! That's not fun either!

 

So when the ultimate nerf is done, I seriously hope y'all be happy and stop complaining, since you yourselves brought this on us this time!

 

 

Edited June 1, 2021 by AshkyLicious.4729

[anbujackson.9564]

It's always amusing to read the logic from different people.

 

First of all, playing overpowered builds is fun maybe once or twice, so you can show your ego in dps numbers. But after that? Not really. Pve content melts so fast, even when you are playing low man, no matter if its fractals or raids (also regular open world stuff). How is that fun? I dont even understand Anet. All this effort creating instanced content, just to waste all that effort with no brain balance because people won't shut the kitten up on how are underused or bad their characters are. 

 

But yes give every class 40k dps and see what it will do to the game. Also reduce the barely existing need for boon duration even further while you are at it. Since that is also quality balance. 

 

Others already mentioned here that the content is not designed around such numbers. Whats wrong with just 30k dps? So you have to Do actually mechanics? How terrible. 

 

Sorry but you people are the reason that this game gets so simplified that there is no challenge whatsoever left. 

[Puck.3697]

6 hours ago, Ardenwolfe.8590 said:

And? Seriously? And? Are the PvE mobs complaining? Who cares if it isn't a challenge or easy for you? The point of the game is to have fun. It's not to destroy someone else's enjoyment because anyone else perceives something isn't to their specific liking. You don't like it? Don't play it.

 

If you ask ArenaNet to nerf anything, they're not going to use a delicate hand. They're going to use a sledgehammer. After years and years of nerfs, if you don't get that, then there's nothing more to discuss.

 

Your fun ruins others fun. Because it drives the meta to force those to utilise these classes to get invited to groups. 

 

You think people will take classes 15k DPS behind you? Ofcourse they won't. 

 

You don't seem to understand that. Things shouldn't remain broken Full stop. It should be balanced. I've never seen such ludicrous arguments and I come from WoW. 

 

Seriously, your advocating for power creep which is ridiculous. 

 

Your destroying the game with this mentality. And this isn't just mesmer Im very aware. Far more then just mesmer needs nerfing currently. 

 

It sounds more like you need a crutch to play content on instead of a realistic argument. If you feel it's nessercary to be 15k above the rest to feel "viable" that's a you problem not a class problem. 

 

Mesmer was utilised in raids and groups before these changes and on your logic it never needed changing because "it doesn't matter" as u basically stated. 

 

Nothing to do with "not to my liking" it's to do with the health of the game. 

Edited June 1, 2021 by Daddy.8125

[Puck.3697]

2 hours ago, AshkyLicious.4729 said:

give up aswell... I get where people come from from both sides and yes Staff in its current state has for once made it easier to play as a mirage. But as people has stated already, asking for nerfs for mesmer usually ends pretty bad for us.

 

I dont like that they are trivializing our class either, but HEY! it's already been done to most other classes in this game?! While we were killing ourselves to be able to deliver decent damage in this game, other classes delivers great damage with way less skill.

 

If I remember correctly people in the mesmer forum were complaining about how unfair it is to play mesmer, how we need to be way more skilled (and still do kitten damage) while the other classes dont need to.

"Either they simplify mesmer like the other classes or they make it more complex for other classes like it is for us!" - Post like this were regularly posted

 

No they didn't. Simplifying mesmer would be a rework of the class. What they did was not bother testing things before launching changes. You weren't made OP on the back of Ur class mechanics. 

 

The things your class utilise got broken instead, hence why it isn't only mesmer that needs nerfing as a result of this. 

 

Elementalists make this whole "we put more effort in our DPS should be higher" but it shouldn't. Difficulty shouldn't be involved in class balance in a mmorpg. It should offer classes of several difficulty levels to fit people. 

 

You play a hard class because you enjoy it. Not to feel superior. And 9/10 whenever someone references "class difficulty" they are talking open world and early game. Which means generally people are refering to skill floors. 

 

If you look at most raid guides and more you will notice your not considered much harder then plenty of the builds in the game currently. 

 

Soulbeast for example is slapped with a 5/5 difficult to master. Yet you will call it "easy mode" based on core ranger.  

 

And mirage has been considered easier to play by many even before these changes. Mirage was never hard to play. Most people are talking chronomancer when talking class difficulty. Surrounding mesmer. 

 

Then need to bring down the condi damage surrounding vulnerable state of bosses. They also need to tone down torment. 

 

Once they've done this, just simply nerf mirages alacrity ability down enough to ensure they do actually have to wear boon extension.

 

It's fine for DPS mirage to be high. No ones saying it isn't. The problem is your alacrity build doesn't require you to alter enough to lower that damage because u don't have to utilise boon extension or very little of it to supply alacrity. 

 

I ain't saying directly nerf mesmer into the ground it's very obvious that mesmers just utilise something that is broken. As you can see with scourge also putting rampant. 

 

The problem is the conditional damage as a whole got waaaay over buffed and the condi damage now needs toning down. 

 

Alacrity however needs fixing. You shouldn't be supplying alacrity 100% on a viper set up. 

 

Fix these 2 things and mirage will fall in line. There's no need to directly nerf staff. Just tone down condi and it'll be more controlled. 

 

They simplified engineer down to almost being one of the easiest classes to play with the introduction of holosmith. 

 

Yet holosmith isn't doing 50k DPS to retain that. And proves you don't need to be either. 

Edited June 1, 2021 by Daddy.8125

[Obtena.7952]

6 hours ago, AshkyLicious.4729 said:

I dont like that they are trivializing our class either, but HEY! it's already been done to most other classes in this game?!

 

there isn't a single other class in this game where I can hand a build to a noob and they can play it by pressing two buttons and achieve this level of performance. Even Minion Necromancer requires more thought to play with much less performance and toolset than staff Mirage. 

 

I get Anet wants to make some 'easy' builds available ... probably to entice reluctant players to do instanced content or something. This is the WRONG way to do it. 

Edited June 1, 2021 by Obtena.7952

[Sobx.1758]

@AshkyLicious.4729, @Veprovina.4876, @Ardenwolfe.8590 I have a weird feeling you guys are extremely biased here. The question is: do you really not understand what's wrong with this build or are you just pretending for the sake of still having something op that you can play?

Also interesting how -apparently- in your world the only 2 things in existance regarding the pve builds are either absolutely broken or useless with nothing inbetween, so if someone wants the broken stuff toned down, you'll claim that "the ungrateful community wants to kill mesmer". 🙄

 

Edited June 1, 2021 by Sobx.1758