twisted marionette is virtually unwinnable for a casual group

[Luthan.5236]

I was in a 50 player squad with 10 per lane. Problem seems: It is 5 bosses at the same time and 2 players per platform (sometimes only 1) - making it hard if not super organized. The option for a 3rd player per platform ... or to help each other out  a bit ... is missing.

 

If the organizing from the private squad was possible in public and public really allows for 70 (have not tried that) ... this might work better. With that number.

 

 Maybe allow public more regularly and not only every 2 hours (I think it is according to patch notes)?

[Stalkingwolf.6035]

why they made is a organized group content?

i mean together with the Legendary armory, which is maybe usable for 5% of the playerbase, its seems they are focusing on the wrong playerbase.

Edited July 13, 2021 by Stalkingwolf.6035

[Rahkylus.8097]

Like said above the boss was not made for 50 ppl, it was for 100+. Although we had the power creep we and it is balanced by the fewer players that is only looking at stats. It takes 1 to 2 ppl to mess this up, and that is counting that the squad is full. In a few months it will be nearly impossible to assemble a squad. The problem here is that this ends up promoting toxic behavior thanks to all the fails. Kicks everywhere ("die in platform - kick") absurd requirements of 200li. I never play raids but already beat marionette dozens of times in the past but that doesn't count to the elitist groups, and like it or not, in a few months only the elitist groups will be able to do it. IMO ANet had an amazing idea of bringing back my favourite boss but with the worst implementation as it leads to the reason I never play raids (exclusive elitism).

[Mungo Zen.9364]

I ran it twice earlier, and agree the 10 players per lane and 2 players per platform is a stretch for the average player. 
 

this event feels fully viable with 50 of organized and prepped for assignments. This event is not viable with 50 randoms of varying builds and skill levels. 
 

I am interested to see how many successfully completed attempts there are this week and if it was what Anet anticipated from the community. 

[Shinjiko.1352]

Actual hard content for once. Sign me up please. I really missed this feeling of there being risk to events and stuff. Such a feeling of satisfaction when you figure it out and finish together. I really missed when this died due to power creep so teq, triple trouble, AB, gerent etc all just finish easily without issue and no feeling of community working together.

[hanabal lecter.2495]

Give it a week of attempting then cry about it,  how are you gunna try to evaluate this like hours within release without trying more?

Edited July 15, 2021 by hanabal lecter.2495

[Eloc Freidon.5692]

It has problems from just a first look first attempt that can be pointed out without a thousand runs to test it.

 

The biggest one is the random assignment of platforms. The strategy "fill your team with solo boss killing builds" is not viable.

[UrMom.4205]

For the people saying no one is on the platforms, look at two things: 1. The event just came back out (lots of players didn't play the first one) and 2. look at the player numbers and do the math. 

 

So for example, a private squad of pugs, 50 players, split between the lanes, that's 10 players per lane.  Mobs start spawning, everyone starts attacking, champs spawn, they tunnel vision the champs.  Meanwhile, their lane has opened up to fight on the platforms, 4 players run in, while the other 6 are poking on the lane champs.  When you join the platforms it adds players to each one in rotation (it does this in order to reduce all the players being stacked on one platform and making the event un-completable.  Meanwhile the time to enter the portal expires and the other 6 players can't go into the platform fight.  So what does that leave us? One player on 4 of the 5 platforms and one platform completely empty. 

 

I personally don't think the difficulty is that hard.  I commanded a lane right after the patch dropped and we did it (we did have two chain cut attempts fail).  All I did was shout in /s, /m, and /squad what to do over and over and the lane had no issue. The community will learn the mechanics and know what to prioritize.  I also don't think the scaling is an issue either, the lane champs are easy to take down, however if you fail to cc them you are punished and that's how it should be.  The platform champs tuning isn't an issue either, it's just like any other boss in the game, you learn the mechanics and try again. 

 

What I do think is an issue is two things. 1. Instance numbers should be increased to 125 or 100.  That would allow for 5 or 4 players per platform.  Having just two per platform isn't enough for the casual audience.  Having 3 more players to help rez and stuff would do wonders.  2. the time to enter the platform portal should be extended slightly.  That or have a timer start as soon as all the platforms are filled, once that timer ends the door closes.  That ensures no zero players on a platform situation.

[Raknar.4735]

Went in with a PuG squad, soloed my platform because people didn't use the portal. Had to watch another person slowly solo his platform after having cleared mine. Cheer didn't seem to help out a lot. Ultimately failed because 2 other lanes weren't able to sever their chain.

Give us the ability to join the other platforms once ours is done and let us carry, please (or increase the playernumbers, like in the old days).

Edited July 13, 2021 by Raknar.4735

[Firebeard.1746]

My guess is most people saying they're happy stop doing it after maybe a week.

95% of the player base will be frustrated,

the other 5% massively unsatisfied.

Edited July 13, 2021 by Firebeard.1746

[Hackuuna.4085]

If they make it any easier it's just going to end up being another event where people stand around auto-attacking and collect loot at the end.

[Firebeard.1746]

11 minutes ago, Hackuuna.4085 said:

If they make it any easier it's just going to end up being another event where people stand around auto-attacking and collect loot at the end.

More players dodge and attempt mechanics than most elitists in this community are willing to admit, it's just that there's a probability anyone will fail at any given moment and if you roll the dice enough, even a high probability of doing it (90%) becomes a liability. The same mechanic executes 10 times and that player will still have a significant chance of dying.

Also when I'm doing ley line, I can't even get abilities off due to the massive amount of lag. Like I'll press an ability and it won't exectute. So even this notion that people are just autoattacking to autoattack is a bit misguided because even in a full map, that's literally all you can do.

There are idiots in the community, but they're far more overblown than is reality.

Edited July 13, 2021 by Firebeard.1746

[Manasa Devi.7958]

Tried the private version a few times. Unmitigated disasters.

 

Tried the public version once. Piece of cake.

[Konrad Curze.5130]

37 minutes ago, Manasa Devi.7958 said:

Tried the private version a few times. Unmitigated disasters.

 

Tried the public version once. Piece of cake.

I tried the public version. it was very close, but fail again

 

I saw 2 people on my platform die within 10 seconds of starting. they didnt even thought of dodging, not a single dodge was used. so again I had to solo it

 

then I watched as the people in another platform were slowly poking at the boss, they ran out of time and it still had 3x%...mind you, that was at least 3 people swinging at it. what build were they using? all soldiers and all defensive traits? 

 

For Christ's sake, I saw people dying on the lanes. Not the platforms, the lanes. You can't go any lower than that. 

 

 

again, I'll repeat. the event is cool, the fight is great but people suck. like, a lot. A LOOOOOOT. its just disheartening.

 

I'll try to hop into one of those 200LI groups, do it once and not bother again.

 

the GW2 playerbase made me lose all faith in humanity, so many people with IQs lower than their shoe size...

 

Edited July 13, 2021 by Konrad Curze.5130

[Hackuuna.4085]

6 minutes ago, Firebeard.1746 said:

More players dodge and attempt mechanics than most elitists in this community are willing to admit, it's just that there's a probability anyone will fail at any given moment and if you roll the dice enough, even a high probability of doing it (90%) becomes a liability. The same mechanic executes 10 times and that player will still have a significant chance of dying.

Also when I'm doing ley line, I can't even get abilities off due to the massive amount of lag. Like I'll press an ability and it won't exectute. So even this notion that people are just autoattacking to autoattack is a bit misguided because even in a full map, that's literally all you can do.

There are idiots in the community, but they're far more overblown than is reality.

If the goal is to eliminate casual frustration then this event is doomed to be another auto-attack friendly event. 

[Rukia.4802]

Did they change it from the original design? Marionette was easily farmed by noob scrubs back when it launched lol.

[Hackuuna.4085]

Just now, Rukia.4802 said:

Did they change it from the original design? Marionette was easily farmed by noob scrubs back when it launched lol.

You used to be able to immob champs, but DPS was a lot lower back then. There were also more people per lane than now.

[Rukia.4802]

3 minutes ago, Hackuuna.4085 said:

You used to be able to immob champs, but DPS was a lot lower back then. There were also more people per lane than now.

I hardly remember being able to immob champs its been so long, I may vaguely recall the charging champ in Orr running in place a few times rather than 1 shotting someone 100 yards away. I would assume marionette would be even more faceroll with our power creep dps but sounds like is scaling issues. Not sure its even worth a login, I didn't like it very much when it was current. Just another trash farm simulator basically and only a couple minutes of actual boss fight.

[radda.8920]

absolutely brilliant this return of the marionette,they are able to make content for 50 players with a good quality sometimes....

On the other hand, I did it with a 250 li  team  so it was well organized, I imagine if I had to do that with average players  who do not know how to dodge or perform a rotation ... the nightmare 😆

 

But I have to admit  it's a success, arena congratulations. AND PLEASE, don't make this content  easier, a little bit of difficulty it feels good.

don't listen to the same players as always  who are going to want to turn this formidable boss into  an army of motionless  sponges

Edited July 13, 2021 by radda.8920

[radda.8920]

1 hour ago, Stalkingwolf.6035 said:

why they made is a organized group content?

i mean together with the Legendary armory, which is maybe usable for 5% of the playerbase, its seems they are focusing on the wrong playerbase.

 

so as I understand it even though 90% of the game content is reserved for the casu,  HM players might not have some targeted updates for them? that sounds a little selfish, doesn't it?

A good mmo is able to satisfy a multitude of player profiles even if there are fewer of them

 

that's how a game can get success and fame by attracting everyone....

but i guess it's so much better to spam 1 on two useless sponges in dragon storm, exciting content!!! 😐

Edited July 13, 2021 by radda.8920

[Zok.4956]

I joined it in a public event and it was fun and overall a piece of cake. only one lane failed. 

 

The fight on the platform was a lot shorter than I remembered it from the past.

 

Give it a few days so most players can adjust and then the overall success rate will increase.

 

[Leo.5829]

I just did the Twisted Marionette with a private squad filled with lfg people. Didn't succeed with the first try, and i had to kick a lot of afkers and people who didn't want to do mechanics but it was a lot of fun when we did succeed! 😄  Please don't nerf the difficulty of this event, this is the most pve fun i've had in a 50 man squad  in quite a while!  Bring out more content like this!

[Inculpatus cedo.9234]

I guess I was lucky. I waited for the Public (2pm PDT) version, and we succeeded with no issues.  🤷‍♂️

 

I'm sure it will get easier for all as this week progresses. 

[Dante.1763]

13 minutes ago, Inculpatus cedo.9234 said:

I guess I was lucky. I waited for the Public (2pm PDT) version, and we succeeded with no issues.  🤷‍♂️

 

I'm sure it will get easier for all as this week progresses. 

My concern is what happens after the week is done and the public event is gone.

 

I really think they should keep the public version, and put it on the world boss rotation with a time slot that only fights with world bosses like fire ele, and tune the public version for the needs of the many. I cant stress this enough: If adjustments are actually needed.

 

Ive only tried it in squads(All failed), and the event seems overtuned to me, and with the 1 person on a platform issue being present(Which i hear is an old issue) it sucks wasting the time.

 

leave the squad version difficult for the players who enjoy the harder content, give increased physical rewards for the hard version, while allowing the achievements to be done in both.

 

I see alot of people praising the difficulty, and thats fine, i love raids myself actually despite barely doing them(time zone issues), but i also remember how many guildmates and friends quit the game due to the ramp up of difficulty in HOT and never came back and im concerned about that happening again if they continue to make further content more difficult than POF. I know alot of my current guild struggle with HOT still, post nerf.

 

[zealex.9410]

I dont get the mindset behind bashing your head against the private version if you cant do it and then comming to the forums to say the private squad version is tough for pugs.

 

If you cant handle it with 50 ppl try the public version which is 75 afaia.

Edited July 13, 2021 by zealex.9410