End of Dragons elite spec preview

[Grand Marshal.4098]

1 hour ago, Xaylin.1860 said:

But what would be the point in naming their skills Potions? Why unneccessarily create new classifications?

Tbh I don't know either. Aside from some inter-class synergy via some sigil, rune or something (which doesn't exist for elixirs) I don't see a reason to a different classification. As in, commands from ranger and preparations from thief changed due to trapper runes and trooper runes no? 

 

 

[Kondor.2904]

mirage: can we have willbender's shadowstep ?
anet: we have willbender's shadowstep at home

willbender's shadowstep at home

[SunTzu.4513]

I like the new Harbinger spec from what was presented but a big letdown are the potion icons. They look somehow really out of place.

[Lazze.9870]

On 8/13/2021 at 11:45 AM, Grand Marshal.4098 said:

As in, commands from ranger and preparations from thief changed due to trapper runes and trooper runes no? 

 

Doubt it was because of trooper runes. They just changed it, forgetting that they already made half the skills support oriented and fitting of the shout classifications. Command would have made more sense if the skills remained the way they were.

[LadyKitty.6120]

E: Kitty had originally forgotten about Vile Vials and Deathly Haste during initial maths and current numbers below are corrected. Other edits in italic, stupidity in strikethrough.
As per usual, Kitty already started theorycrafting on new elite specs and whining based on mathing without checking things out fully which was unusual super-stupid mistake from someone like Kitty... one worrisome thing about Harbinger PVE-wise was clear right away: it doesn't have long enough durations to fully keep up boons to allies even at 100% boon duration.

The boon uptimes from Elixirs when you have all Elixirs equipped (though in reality you have to leave one out always) with full 100% Boon Duration from support gears with Alacrity and Vile Vials to reduce Elixir cooldowns:

25,9%: full 25 Might, 5 stacks of Stability, Aegis, Alacrity, Protection, Regen
50,4%: Resistance
87,1%: Resolution, Vigor, Quickness without Deathly Haste
148,4%: Swiftness, Fury, 10 stacks of Might
105,7% Quickness from Deathly Haste IF you can keep up shroud for 18,5s at a time and somehow recover 92,5% Life Force in 8 seconds between shrouds.
70-75% Quickness from Deathly Haste with realistic rotation
140-160% Quickness uptime for 5 at 100% boon duration with a proper DPS rotation.

Since this is a dps spec, you can (Read: will) use Blood is Power as one of the utilities and that will essentially solve the might issue (BiP provides 10 stack of 100% uptime at 100% Boon Duration). *and thus this build is capable of working as 

As is, it might work as mightbot that also allows alacrigade and quickness support to have slightly lower boon duration but it doesn't work as independent quickness support. works as full might+fury+quickness support. Considering that we have staff mirage with full might and alacrity in full dps gears doing almost as much dps as normal dps' and quickscrapper and quickbrand have tons of utility and good dps while bringing quickness, Kitty would suggest upping the Quickness and Vigor duration to same as might, fury and swiftness as Harbinger needs to use something like Seraph's/Plaguedoctor's with boon duration stuffs with pure support traits and utilities to work as boonbot at all even then and that likely means that Harbinger might end up behind alacrigade in DPS and condi quickbrand still does the job twice better while bringing superior utility with axe pulls, cleanses, blocks and all the tome stuffs.

And here's one build it might be running as condi/boonbot:
-uses Harbinger Mid-Mid-Mid
-Scepter+Dagger/Pistol+Dagger or some other off-hand as weapons.
-Elixirs of Anguish, Ignorance and Ambition in empty utility slots.
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?PSgAsilFwABWqTAraA-zRJYvRDfZUQC0VB490YizKA-e

Edited August 16, 2021 by LadyKitty.6120
Fixing maths and bad mistakes and adding info.

[draxynnic.3719]

8 hours ago, LadyKitty.6120 said:

As per usual, Kitty already started theorycrafting on new elite specs and one worrisome thing about Harbinger PVE-wise was clear right away: it doesn't have long enough durations to fully keep up boons to allies even at 100% boon duration.

The boon uptimes from Elixirs when you have all Elixirs equipped (though in reality you have to leave one out always) with full 100% Boon Duration from support gears with Alacrity to reduce Elixir cooldowns:

20,7%: full 25 Might, 5 stacks of Stability, Aegis, Alacrity, Protection, Regen
40,3%: Resistance
69,7%: Quickness, Resolution, Vigor
118,7%: Swiftness, Fury, 10 stacks of Might

Since this is a dps spec, you can (Read: will) use Blood is Power as one of the utilities and that will essentially solve the might issue (BiP provides 10 stack of 100% uptime at 100% Boon Duration). 

As is, it might work as mightbot that also allows alacrigade and quickness support to have slightly lower boon duration but it doesn't work as independent quickness support. Considering that we have staff mirage with full might and alacrity in full dps gears, Kitty would suggest upping the Quickness and Vigor duration to same as might, fury and swiftness as Harbinger needs to use something like Seraph's/Plaguedoctor's with boon duration stuffs to work as boonbot at all even then and that means that Harbinger will be well behind alacrigade in DPS and condi quickbrand still does the job twice better.

Interesting to see the maths, but I think a support Harbinger would also be likely to take the "grant quickness while in shroud" trait, which at 100% boon duration I think works out to be about 5s of quickness for every 4s in shroud. Obviously, the Harbinger won't be able to be in shroud the whole time, but this should cover the gap in Quickness uptime in elixirs.

 

Might still be behind other options in quickness, but if it can keep up fury, quickness, and 10 stacks of Might permanently, that's probably enough to be a viable substitute. Shouldn't be too hard to find another 15 stacks of Might among the rest of the group.

[LadyKitty.6120]

On 8/15/2021 at 7:12 AM, draxynnic.3719 said:

Interesting to see the maths, but I think a support Harbinger would also be likely to take the "grant quickness while in shroud" trait, which at 100% boon duration I think works out to be about 5s of quickness for every 4s in shroud. Obviously, the Harbinger won't be able to be in shroud the whole time, but this should cover the gap in Quickness uptime in elixirs.

 

Might still be behind other options in quickness, but if it can keep up fury, quickness, and 10 stacks of Might permanently, that's probably enough to be a viable substitute. Shouldn't be too hard to find another 15 stacks of Might among the rest of the group.

Oh, rite...Kitty should check stuffs again and probably gotta correct the maths =.='
E: Fixed and updated the previous post with correct numbers and refined opinions.

Edited August 16, 2021 by LadyKitty.6120

[MedievalThings.5417]

On 8/12/2021 at 4:35 AM, Lincolnbeard.1735 said:

I get what Sea Wolf is saying I'd be pissed off if someone else got mesmer's Portal...oh wait someone else got it. 

Let me rephrase it, I'd be pissed off if someone else got Moa...oh...

Alacrity - someone else got alacrity... Goddamnit...

Clones - that is it, clones.

My best example of this is fear, which the selling point at launch was "a condition only necros have access to".  And, then they gave better versions to thief and warrior.

[Xanhawk.3806]

8 minutes ago, TheLadyOfTheRings.9148 said:

If these are the real thing, I wonder why they were introduced now instead of later, closer to the respective beta events.

More than likely a one size fits all coding.  Its easier to do all at once then try to add into it later one, especially with the trouble many people reported they were having when the Beta went live.

[draxynnic.3719]

9 hours ago, TheLadyOfTheRings.9148 said:

About your question, I don't think we can speculate much based on the icons alone - except for the bullet one, that might be Warrior. 

I think it does. If the weapons list is accurate, the bullet one pretty much can ONLY be Warrior. That leaves five unknowns. Revenant is probably still the one with the eye, which leaves four unknowns. Hammer for ranger suggests that the big solid animal mask probably is the ranger, so that leaves three unknowns.

 

From there, it's hard to say. I think we can rule out big muscles for Thief since Thief is getting a caster weapon, but that leaves flame and oni mask. I don't really see the oni mask being engineer. Elementalist being the mask with hammer is... not completely impossible, but not what I'd expect either. So probably oni mask for Thief. The remaining two could go either way. I'd guess muscles for Engineer and flame for Elementalist, but that's closer to being a 60/40 than a solid prediction. I could see them flipping around depending on the precise themes they're going for.

 

I suspect that either elementalist or engineer players will be disappointed, though. Neither really wants another close-in elite specialisation, and the big muscles scream close-in. Maybe the animal mask will turn out to be elementalist (representing elementalists taking inspiration from Canthan fauna... which seemed to be reasonably common if you look at Factions skill names) and the big muscles will turn out to be ranger. Which, thinking on it, is probably what I'd personally hope for, but it's certainly not what I expect.

[ZeftheWicked.3076]

Well I didn't play Willbender but Virtuoso and Harbringer were fun. Still it's clear all 3 need some more time in the oven.

Both Virtuoso and Harbringer need some work on their synergies with core kits and Harbringer needs some more fun in the elixir area and general balance.

[Eloc Freidon.5692]

Willbender Physical skills are very lacking in utility, aside from the one that lets you shadowstep back. The healing could use longer block time considering the heal effectiveness is poor. Maybe it heals based on how many attacks you block rather than "I didn't block anything so I might as well have not used it".

 

Virtuoso was actually fun and useful all around. The Psionic skills each do something different and keep combat dynamic.

[Levetty.1279]

Copying my Virtuoso feedback here.

 

I had a more detailed post written out and then lost it so this might not cover everything and bare with me and its mostly going to be PvE focused as I didn't play much PvP with it.

 

First thing is that the spec feels unfinished.

1.  As pointed out by others a lot of traits and skills are either buggy (stop performing at 3 blades) or just don't work now that clones have gone and nothing has changed about them.  Jagged Mind is basically how sharpened edges should work on Virtuoso which makes me think these traits and skills not working is intentional and not an oversight.
2. There is no class mechanic now. You've removed clones and replaced them with what exactly?

I've said before how straightforward the class is, every new skill is just aoe damage. Its nice to finally have some but is it really worth everything we give up just to have a taste of what other classes are doing better? The only boon it can reliable generate for itself is small amounts of fury, the only synergy between it and the core traits is bleeding edge and Bloodsong and in PvE the damage isn't really that much higher then other Mesmer specs to make up for this and is probably going to be shaved down from this beta on top of that. Its a ranged focused spec with no way to keep people at range or help itself keep away. It can't even cast any of its skills while running away, it can't even cast its heal while running away.

 

What exactly is the role of Virtuoso?

1. Ranged aoe damage with no illusions sounds like the perfect chance to finally give Mesmer a role in WvW zergs, it is the one place were illusions are nothing but a hindrance but if that was the plan why are phantasms still here which are a bigger hindrance to this and why is every single new skill a projectile making them worse then useless in WvW groups as they will just get reflected back in our face. This is before we get into the complete lack of group utility it has.
2. In PvE living world/story content its inferior to Chrono and Mirage who can already output damage while having better access to boons, more synergy with core trait lines and more survivability. I've never actually felt this squishy before on Mesmer.
3. The spec will never be good in PvP barring major changes. You've removed everything good about Mesmer and replaced it with damage but the problem is for the damage to be good enough to make that work Virtuoso would just end up running around one shotting people from 1200 range. That is never going to be something that people will accept.

With the pretty long cast times on everything and having to face people to cast skills it just feels really clunky to play.

 

5 blade shatters don't feel any stronger then 3 clone shatters. F1 is about the same, F3 has worse breakbar damage and F4 is entirely different anyway. Considering that we have both given up having a class mechanic and have to build up more resources to shatter this really shouldn't be the case. 

 

Speaking of shatters they are too similar to core but worse because they are now a projectile and have pierce instead of aoe and way too long cast times.  At least change the cooldowns, give F2 different conditions, give them extra effects at 5 blades. Ideally we would get some interesting new mechanic to replace our clones that could do interesting things blades and shatters but that is unlikely so do something with them.

I sort of like Bladeturn Requiem even if it is a straight downgrade because its the only one that is different. That said its supposed to have 3 seconds of block but it feels more like half a second. Don't think I ever actually used it that didn't result in me dying straight way because it didn't block anything. Even with a proper block duration, considering the idea seems to be trading defense of the distortion shatter for some extra damage it really needs its damage upped because a full 5 blade shatter was doing pitifully small numbers.

 

Psychic Force is a decent skill with a too long cooldown. If this was on core I would take it on a lot of builds but on Virtuoso all it really manged to do was knock people out of my AoEs and scatter them out. Slight ltp issue but it is the only new stunbreak and it doesn't synergise that great. 

 

Not really sure the idea of putting condition traits on a power focused espec although Bloodsong is the only good blade generation we have and the only trait that has any kind of synergy so I don't really want to argue for their removal. If you want condition builds on the spec I would say make Jagged Mind and Sharpened edges both work on blades and stack and replace the confusion on F2 with a couple of different conditions. Have Sharpening Sorrow change how it gives fury too because 5 seconds of fury on a 25 second cooldown isn't anything to write home about.

 

Infinite Forge relies on you not generating blades for the first 9 seconds of the match while it builds up for you making the trait pointless. Rework it or remove the cap. Related to that if you do get the core traits to consider blades as clones then have us continue to generate blades past the 5 limit like how creating a new clone at 3 replaces one of the old ones.

 

Dagger and the rest of the aoe skills are nice to finally have in PvE, I like how dagger feels but I'd up the auto attack damage some. Maybe speed up 3 as well.

 

That said the elite Thousand Cuts isn't that great. The targeting mechanic followed by the cast time makes it really clunky and its really narrow. Even in PvE mobs would probably just casually walk out of it. That is if you even managed to get it off before they beat you to death during the long cast time.

 

Ultimately clones were never the problem with Mesmer, phantasms were and that was 90% fixed with the phantasm rework. Not to say I would be against a illusionless elite spec but this is the worst of both worlds. You've removed the advantages of clones, left us with phantasms and given us nothing in return.

[Delgotta.3817]

had fun with necro, utilities need some buffs to make them worthwhile, possibly a pulsing effect, or a secondary lingering effect while on cooldown. not much complaining, and seems to be the clear winner of the 3.

 

mesmer, absolutely no synergy with core traits. half the traits were useless. have blades work with all clone, illusions and phantasms. I also agree, its too projectile based. have some unblockable, or a trait that when reflected instead reform into a blade. 

guardian, the clear looser of the 3, too much sacrificed for so little gain, wasn't even fun. needs to ditch the tradeoffs and focus on being enjoyable.

btw, i absolutely refuse to acknowledge the elite names and will forever call them "Alchemist" "Psyonic" and "Kensai"  respectivly.

[Ashantara.8731]

So far, I am very disappointed with the tone of the new elite specs. The biggest letdown, for me, is that they lack any real Asian theme.

 

Now, don't get me wrong: I am not a manga/anime fan. I just love the rich history and cultures of East Asia, which are as fascinating as all cultures with an ancient history. And I loved how ANet managed to mirror aspects of them in their creation of Cantha in GW1 and weave them into their own fantasy world in a compelling way.

 

All new professions in GW1 always contained aspects of the cultural setting in which the expansion was set. Perhaps it is the case now as well, but that would mean that GW2's Cantha has changed into a region without a profound Canthan identity. It seems to be a trend in GW2 that Tyria is losing its identity, as shown in the development of weapon and armor skins throughout the past couple of years that span from "traditional Tyrian" to totally outlandish, almost alien looks (or downright weird designs like the recently released "Barbie's pink princess" theme). Most of it doesn't match a single culture (like, let's say, Krytan), a lot of it doesn't even match the world of Tyria's identity at all.

 

A traditional Canthan identity in the new elite specs would  have been great in my eyes - it was the only, single chance to get them in GW2. I feel that chance might have been dropped for the sake of "being different" in GW2. 🙁

 

 

P.S. @Ghostkat.9580: FYI, Monk was not a Canthan class, it was released as one of the core classes in GW1. 🙂 Also, nope, as a GW1 veteran I am not the least bit pleased with what has been shown of the new elite specs so far, so I doubt your hypothesis of "ANet trying to please the GW1 vets" applies here. 😉

Edited August 31, 2021 by Ashantara.8731

[draxynnic.3719]

13 minutes ago, Ashantara.8731 said:

P.S. @Ghostkat.9580: FYI, Monk was not a Canthan class, it was released as one of the core classes in GW1. 🙂 Also, nope, as a GW1 veteran I am not the least bit please with what has been shown of the new elite specs so far, so I doubt your hypothesis of "ANet trying to please the GW1 vets" applies here. 😉

Monk is an interesting case in that while, yes, it was a core profession in GW1, its aesthetic in Prophecies was already very Eastern in nature, whether in the form of garb or tattoos - it's not until Nightfall that the armour shows significant regional variation in monk armour (the Factions monk armour mostly just looks like fancier versions of the same themes as Prophecies monk armour). So it might actually be reasonable to assume - although there is no hard evidence - that the monk profession started in Cantha and was then adopted early in Tyria, with Tyrian monks adopting Canthan tattoos and styles of dress as a result of that history.

[Ashantara.8731]

1 minute ago, draxynnic.3719 said:

Monk is an interesting case in that while, yes, it was a core profession in GW1, its aesthetic in Prophecies was already very Eastern in nature, whether in the form of garb or tattoos - it's not until Nightfall that the armour shows significant regional variation in monk armour (the Factions monk armour mostly just looks like fancier versions of the same themes as Prophecies monk armour). So it might actually be reasonable to assume - although there is no hard evidence - that the monk profession started in Cantha and was then adopted early in Tyria, with Tyrian monks adopting Canthan tattoos and styles of dress as a result of that history.

 

Oh, I totally agree! I was just saying that it was not one specifically designed for and released with Guild Wars: Factions. 🙂

[shrew.3059]

9 hours ago, Ashantara.8731 said:

It seems to be a trend in GW2 that Tyria is losing its identity, as shown in the development of weapon and armor skins throughout the past couple of years that span from "traditional Tyrian" to totally outlandish, almost alien looks (or downright weird designs like the recently released "Barbie's pink princess" theme).

 

I thought the Elonian armour sets had appropriate cultural touchstones. Some of the additional designs are strange and not to my liking, but the community is diverse and for everyone to win, my personal tastes need to occasionally take a backseat.

Edited August 31, 2021 by shrew.3059

[draxynnic.3719]

1 hour ago, shrew.3059 said:

 

I thought the Elonian armour sets had appropriate cultural touchstones. Some of the additional designs are strange and not to my liking, but the community is diverse and for everyone to win, my personal tastes need to occasionally take a backseat.

Well, PoF was 2017 if I remember correctly, so that's more than a couple of years ago.

[Ashantara.8731]

9 hours ago, shrew.3059 said:

I thought the Elonian armour sets had appropriate cultural touchstones.

 

Oh yes, no doubt. Some of them were quite ugly, but all of them were culturally fitting, so I wasn't referring to them with my previous comment. 😉

[Salvatore.3749]

Who do you all think Revenant will channel?

I'm contemplating:

Messenger Vetaura
Herald Demrikov
Suun (The Old Oracle of the Mist)
Talon Silverwing

I know some people think it will be a Kurzick or Luxon, but I for some reason think it will be one of the Envoys since they were shepherds of the mists and Revs have a relationship with the mists as well. 

https://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Envoy

 

[Xanhawk.3806]

Another Twitter drop.  Seems like Warrior?  Can't Warrior already use Swords?

 

[Salvatore.3749]

9 minutes ago, Xanhawk.3806 said:

Another Twitter drop.  Seems like Warrior?  Can't Warrior already use Swords?

 

It looks like a gun blade. Bullets on gauntlets!

What if the  leaks were wrong?

[Tails.9372]

12 minutes ago, Salvatore.3749 said:

It looks like a gun blade.

 

Except gunblades don't exist as a weapon type and it's very unlikely that they're going to add a new one to the game just for warrior. Looks like main hand pistol to me, probably with some attack animations featuring some kind of "energy blade" with the e-spec mechanic probably being that you can switch between a close ranged focused "blade mode" and a long ranged focused "gun mode" for their e-spec weapon.

Edited September 3, 2021 by Tails.9372

[Grand Marshal.4098]

12 minutes ago, Tails.9372 said:

 

Except gunblades don't exist as a weapon type and it's very unlikely that they're going to add a new one to the game just for warrior. Looks like main hand pistol to me, probably with some attack animations featuring some kind of "energy blade" with the e-spec mechanic probably being that you can switch between a close ranged focused "blade mode" and a long ranged focused "gun mode" for their e-spec weapon.

Sounds an awful lot like Holosmith. I wouldn't want us to copy Holos tbh. That would be a bruh moment for warriors who want their original identity back and may end up imitating an imitation...