Why Soulbeast is not wanted in squads (WvW)

So i've running ArcDPS in squad runs (when i was accepted in one after hearing the obligatory "rangers are useless why don't you change class for something useful") and i have reach to the following conclusions.This is an image of cleanses provided to the group squad (40) average comp 1FB / 1 scourge / 1 REV all parties in middle battle:We can appreciate how Scrapper and SpellBreaker already got the lead followed by Firebrand and Tempests. Tempests will go over the FBs at some point in the battle when they land the cleanses.In 40 vs 40 combat the average cleanses by squad class is in a 4m fight:

• Scrappers lead with around 300 conversions. Scrapper does not cleanse but convert conditions which is even better.
• Tempests with around 200 - 250 cleanses.
• SpellBreakers with around 130 - 180 cleanses.
• Firebrands with around 50-70 cleanses.
• Rest of the classes.

Soulbeasts and Scourges are around 30-40 cleanses.

Another take from another battle.End of the same battleSoulbeast is around 30-40 (39 in this case) while Scrappers, tempest, firebrand and warriors are more effective by miles.

Damage wise is also underperforming because of projectile hate which is permanent at the moment with reflections from Auramancers, Scrappers and Firebands.Ranger ranged weapons are all projectiles based.It's much behind Scourges and Heralds or even weavers.

• Both classes have ranged AoE attacks which ignore projectile hate.
• Scourges with Axe or Scepter both attacks are not projectiles. Shades are not projectiles.
• Reventants CoR, Phase mash, Drop the Hammer are ranged AoE skills wich ignore projectile hate. That's is all the damage skills other than the Autoattack.

The actual situation is not as vast majority of the commanders say: "Ranger is useless" but is very far from being something which brings anything to the squad.

This leads me to the following conclusions if we want for Soulbeast to have an spot in squads.[Damage]Baseline:

• All projectiles have a 100% to trigger combo fields. Right now it sits in a 20% which is not ideal for a class which most of its weapons are projectiles.
• Stances do not stack.

Traits:

• Lead the wind. Ranger needs a way to fight the permanent projectile hate creep in game. It is the only class with strong focus in projectile based attacks. This trait grants 1 unblockable stack(3s) each time a projectile triggers a combo field once every second (ICD 1s). Reduce the Piercing to 3 targets as the objective of this change is to fight permanent projectile hate.

Weapons:

• Longbow: If skills 3 (Hunter's Shot) hit a target Skill 5 (Barrage) is refreshed.

[support]Stances looks promising and the easiest way to prepare the ranger for squad gameplay. Druid is simply not there and it needs a much more in-depth rework of the class.

Traits

• Leader of the pack to apply full duration to allies. This is fundamental for the stances to work. It should lift the number of squad cleanses to 60-70 to bring it closer to Firebrand's.
• Essence of Speed. This trait to be changed to : Stances get 2s of CD reduction for each ally affected by the stance (max 10s) .

Stances

• Bear : Extend base duration 1 more second up to 5 seconds, same as in PvP. This should bring the squad cleanses up to FB level. Additionally add -33% Incoming Condition Damage, -33% Incoming Damage most extra healing is negated by condition ticks until they are cleansed.
• Moa: instead using a percentage, use a fixed value instead like Essence of Speed. Add 2s to any boon you grant while this stance is in effect.
• Doylak: remove "-33% Incoming Condition Damage, -33% Incoming Damage" from the effect to avoid overbloat of effects. Apply short resistance (3s) when cast instead.
• Vulture: Additionally apply small amount of barrier (250) each time the stance apply poison to a target.
• Glyphon: Instead might when evade successfully, apply short quickness(2s) and retaliation(6s). This skill should be defined as a counterattack.
• One Wolf Pack: This skill is problematic as it is overwhelming in a 1v1 situation. But at the same time is very underwhelming in team fights. I propose : reduce base damage in a 33%, Add AoE damage around the target(radius 300) to 2 additional targets when it triggers.

This changes should accomplish the following:

• Squad cleanses will be brought at the level of a firebrand. With the CD reduction from trait + extended 1 second duration in WvW + full duration shared with party the stances should start to being noticeable. It would not replace Firebrands but it could be an option for secondary support.
• This wouldn't mean it will replace any meta classes in the squad, it would be another option.
• Additional barrier and resistance from Vulture and Doylak should also be noticeable, as it will help the party to survive.
• Change to Moa will be good overall to reduce boon spam. Most classes have long durations so this would be a nerf for them. Classes with short applications would notice this stance.
• One wolf pack would make the skill less oppresive to 1v1 and at the same time bring some value to squad combat.
  • Damage overall should improve as having more opportunities to cast Barrage and the possibility of fight against all the reflections if the allies help with combo fields. Shortbow and traps my see some use after this. Keep in mind this would only nerf unblockable shortbow builds as the ranger would need 2 GMs to make shortbow builds work with combo fields losing all the sustain traitlines.
• Axe mainhand may need a small nerf in damage if this is applied .

Your entire post doesn't address 3 main things:

• any organized squad runs some sort of stealth, even when it was the core days (veil) , unless the rangers stow pet or merge beforehand they're literally the only class that actively hurts the squad rather than helping it
• a squad exists to provide boons or buffs to others. Unless you are running stance share you do nothing for anyone else, so why do they want you in the party. Literally rangers are leeching in WVW if they run longbow because of reflects (which can hurt teammates) and the fact that it only hits 1 target besides barrage unless traited.
• most rangers I've seen have the openworld PVE mindset of letting the pet tank for them, but in the case of WVW letting everyone else push while pew pewing on longbow doing absolutely nothing useful.

There's some secondary issues, such as poor cleaving potential unless running a melee weapon and the slow ramp of bleeding on the shortbow.

Changing lead the wind won't suddenly make longbow viable in WVW and would probably make it busted in PVP.

If your testing is with longbow it's already inherently flawed.In instanced PVE it is a underperforming weapon that will get you kicked when you don't stack and auto spam for garbage DPS; in WVW it is a weapon that is the hallmark of the rangers that don't push an openfield fight when everyone else is (so why should they have the ranger in the squad when it is not even in range for buffs and boons?) or on the wall roleplaying an archer when everyone else is pushing out for defense purposes.

If you want to be remotely useful to a squad as a soulbeast , run "Protect Me!" and stanceshare, with Greatsword or sword/axe or even axe+axe (which still eats retal from mainhand axe as well reflects while only hitting 2 targets on auto) rather than longbow.

I'm just not sure that changes in mechanics and numbers are needed to address the problem with the Ranger's desirability in WvW groups.

There are currently two major groups of players who run Ranger in WvW.There are the roamers/solo artists who's skill ranges from mildly incompetent to pretty darn good. These players run selfish builds by necessity much like thieves or burst mesmers.And then there is everyone else....Pewpewing with their longbows at you a few times from the top of a wall before they have to dodge back and acting like they are helping. Backcapping camps and sentries on EBG, pretending that LB5 is acceptable damage. Bringing nothing to the team and mainly there to get their GoB . When they do join groups they are constantly off tag chasing down whatever scrap of XP they can get in at the cost of the team's visibility.This second group is the main problem with ranger's desirability in a zerg.Neither of these groups brings anything to a squad. A good roaming boonbeast certainly doesnt need a single thing and the "average" ranger in WvW is often addition by subtraction... they feed..constantly.

Now if only there were a third group of ranger players who leveraged Soulbeast's existing kit to benefit a squad in a meaningful way. Thief offers less to the squad... and no one plays wvw support chrono these days. It wouldn't be Rev or FB but I am certain it could easily be as useful as support tempest. It may not be perfect for a specific comp but I sure wouldn't kick one off an open tag.The solution is not to bring Ranger up to FB's level. FB's been in need of a serious nerf since PoF launched.

As for your suggestions:This:

All projectiles have a 100% to trigger combo fields. Right now it sits in a 20% which is not ideal for a class which most of its weapons are projectiles.Plus This:Lead the wind. Ranger needs a way to fight the permanent projectile hate creep in game. It is the only class with strong focus in projectile based attacks. This trait grants 1 unblockable stack(3s) each time a projectile triggers a combo field once every second (ICD 1s).Plus ThisLongbow: If skills 3 (Hunter's Shot) hit a target Skill 5 (Barrage) is refreshed.Come on man.... seriously.

@mindcircus.1506 said:Come on man.... seriously.I think you are confusing barrage with rapid fire, check the wiki.Barrage does not benefit from 1st and 2nd change.1st change(combo) and 2nd change (trait) will only benefit 1-2 hits of the 10 from rapid fire the rest would be reflected. And that counting there is an ally combo field avialable. This buff will not to make rapidfire oppresive but it will make single shots to be more consistent as long as the pre conditions are met. Quickness would only make the trait less useful.

Soulbeast do play all the time in beastmode when they are in an squad, pets are not useful when they are around and constanly die to random conditions.

After the balance, Soulbeast cleave is fine with melee weapons.

Ranger players can learn to play in squads if they are given a chance and a build with realistic use so they are needed. Right now there is not need for a ranger to step up in team play.

Projectile hate, wat? Why not run SB with sword/axe/GS, stance sharing and a versatile pet for the immob? Pretty good damage and utility. Stances are amazing in WvW with their short CD. Dolyak is the best anti-cc ability in the game.

Seriously, longbow? In zergs? Wtf

@mistsim.2748 said:Projectile hate, wat? Why not run SB with sword/axe/GS, stance sharing and a versatile pet for the immob? Pretty good damage and utility. Stances are amazing in WvW with their short CD. Dolyak is the best anti-cc ability in the game.

Seriously, longbow? In zergs? kittenThis is genuine question: Why would you want 2 melee weapons sets? While in squad you don't need the mobility. If you build for condi you do 0 damage, trapper ranger is a meme with no real use in WvW in roaming or zerging.

Barrage is the only ranged AoE skill the ranger has for when the tag request a ranged bomb. Then you swap to melee and enter with the tag. Winter's bite is another decent choice unfortunately in opposition to barrage Winter's bite is another projectile which is worst with the projectile hate creep and you lack the range to over maneuver the reflections. As such the new Lead of The Wind may help with that.

in depend form squad. In some squad welcome everyone, thiefs, druids, long bow warriors, and etc .. so it depend only from comm.

The only build I can see SBeast work in a structured zerg squad is Double LB with Quickdraw to get Barrage on a short cooldown.

Ranger always been bad with AoEs and it's the main problem. I mean, just look at Call Lightning (Jacaranda merged) with its little radius and long cast/cooldown. Also, many ranger AoEs has a small radius.

Stances are ok, but other classes do it much better as you demonstrated.

They could re-haul Druid to actually be useful, but they won't. Staff could be much better, but they pimped Guardian's staff instead. The only hope we have is the next elite spec.

I'll tell you why rangers aren't desired in squads... There are elements (weapons, skills, buffs, heals...) on other professions that perform better in a team setting.

@anduriell.6280 said:

@"mistsim.2748" said:Projectile hate, wat? Why not run SB with sword/axe/GS, stance sharing and a versatile pet for the immob? Pretty good damage and utility. Stances are amazing in WvW with their short CD. Dolyak is the best anti-cc ability in the game.

Seriously, longbow? In zergs? kittenThis is genuine question:

Why would you want 2 melee weapons sets?

Genuine answer: running in zergs is about 1) surviving, 2) group synergy, and 3) aoe damage.

Sword has a leap and a disengage.

Whirling Defense does insane damage. It's channelled, but you can use it for cleaving downed. And it can strip stability with Path of Scars, and secure kills if touching enemies without stab.

GS does everything.

Channeling barrage to "tag" people is completely suicidal. Longbow in general is trash because of projectile hate. You COULD play an assassin type with a glassbow build, but you would require Lead the Wind and zerker-type stats. You wouldn't be rolling with the zerg though.

I'm not saying rangers are great in zergs or anything. But if you're gonna be in a casual off-meta zerg, you'll be running stances and GS.

Immobilize bombing is more for organize zerg play.

And yes, please make druid relevant. If we could run druid with stances, that might make it into a meta comp.

We are talking about rangers in zergs, right? My mistake if not.

@Krispera.5087 said:The only build I can see SBeast work in a structured zerg squad is Double LB with Quickdraw to get Barrage on a short cooldown.

This is a really bad idea. Barrage doesn't do good damage and channeling it in a mobile zerg fight is suicide.

Regarding soulbeasts and squads I understand the damage output is going to be less than other classes. I tend to shift my thinking into being a useful team asset in places that I can be. With Axe / Dagger & Dagger / Axe + Ambidexterity, a lot of different things can be done. Couple that with strategic stance sharing, and the soulbeast actually provides decent value to the team in smaller-mid skirmishes.

But I tend to be more of a scout / driveby team assist than anything else to help the big squads.-Eros of Ascalon

@mistsim.2748 said:Genuine answer: running in zergs is about 1) surviving, 2) group synergy, and 3) aoe damage.Yes agreed still don't see the point to carry 2 different melee sets, they don't bring anything subtantial one to the other. If you want the melee theme because personal reasons it would be better to have 2 greatswords with trait to reduce CDs on swap.

@mistsim.2748 said:Longbow in general is trash because of projectile hate.Thank you for agreeing with me, Thus the trait to add unblockable when the projectile cross an ally combo field. It's something ranger should have gotten as soon as the firebrand got into the game.The reflects creep in the game is in its highest ever and makes any projectile based weapon mostly useless if there are two firebrands in an squad. This not only impacts longbow but also Axe, dagger offhand, torch and Shorbow. Which is about a 80% of all the weapon skills a soulbeast has access to.

@anduriell.6280 said:This leads me to the following conclusions if we want for Soulbeast to have an spot in squads.[Damage]Baseline:

• All projectiles have a 100% to trigger combo fields. Right now it sits in a 20% which is not ideal for a class which most of its weapons are projectiles.
• Stances do not stack.

Maybe not 100%.. I can only imagine how peeved people would be if a ton of Rangers fired a Rapid fire into a light field and started mass cleansing an entire blob in seconds.. it would be way too powerful, specially with Rapid Fire on an 8 second CD.I'd say 40% would be best for the current 20% projectile finisher skills while the 100% skills stay at 100% finisher chance.

Traits:

• Lead the wind. Ranger needs a way to fight the permanent projectile hate creep in game. It is the only class with strong focus in projectile based attacks. This trait grants 1 unblockable stack(3s) each time a projectile triggers a combo field once every second (ICD 1s). Reduce the Piercing to 3 targets as the objective of this change is to fight permanent projectile hate.

Reduce piercing to 3 targets is fine ONLY! if it's in WvW and PvP..If this applied to PvE it would diminish the Longbow's damage potential by two fifths of it's max which as a long time LB user in PvE I would not want to see.The weapon already has a bad rep for slow attack speed and damage output for single target damage.. Piercing Arrows are the only thing this weapon has to counter those criticisms and make the weapon somewhat decent for group based AoE..Ranger can get a very nice damage combo out of Barrage and Rapid Fire if it can land both skills on 5 targets, it's pretty easy to do in PvE too so definitely a no to diminishing the target cap there, but it would be fine in PvP and WvW.

Weapons:

• Longbow: If skills 3 (Hunter's Shot) hit a target Skill 5 (Barrage) is refreshed.

Hunter's Shot already gives us a useful Stealth upon successful hit so refreshing Barrage too might be overkill.Perhaps it would be better for Barrage to recharge faster based on how many targets it hits per tick.Forgive my math if it's wrong I suck at it, but the base CD of Barrage is 20 seconds and that's what this will be based on regardless of Lead the Wind.So Barrage hits a max of 5 targets per tick, if each target reduces the CD by 1% then hitting 5 targets would mean 5% per tick on CD.. thats 1 second for every 5 targets you hit per tick.Barrage will hit for a max of 12 ticks/hits meaning that if you hit 5 targets for the full barrage (rare in PvP modes) you'll get 12 seconds off your CD allowing you to use the skill after only 8 seconds, but if you only hit 1 target for the full barrage you'll get 12% CD which is 2,4 seconds.Considering you'll likely only land a little barrage on most players or blobs and a lot on siege then you could end up shaving off a few seconds at least quite often in big skirmish's where this skill is really useful and that would make a noticable difference for playing defense and offense.But it would be far less useful as an offense skill in duels and small fights.. but could be a little more useful as a defensive one if the enemy is brave enough to try and melee you in the middle of it.It'll also improve the pressure factor of Barrage on blobs too as they won't want to endure/tank it anymore and feed it's recharge.. ergo they will get hit by it far more often as a result making it a more effective skill for protecting gates and lords and ranging down seige etc.

First of all, Soulbeast lacks a good zerg weapon. GS would have been decent if Hilt Bash had more targets, but it would still want a second good weapon. Unfortunelately, we're left with a dagger that should have been a core weapon to begin with. SB's zerg viability was dead on arrival, even though a permanently merged pet for new skills and stat bonuses + shareable stances looked good on paper.

Not sure why're you're bringing up cleanses to begin with. Druid is not just better suited at it, but pretty decent at it comparatively to other support builds. The main issue is that Engie's Purity of Purpose is stupidly broken and undermining other cleanse options. Druid could be quite capable in zergs if Anet made some smart changes to it. Even with all the nerfs it's still useable as a one-off in in smaller squad skirmishes and GvGs, immobilizing inside warrior bubbles while providing heals and cleanses.

Sadly, I don't think Anet will be smart about it. Chances are they will probably just make it worse at that one immob job it currently has because people hate "that cancer" and Anet will cater to the complaints eventually.

@Lazze.9870 said:First of all, Soulbeast lacks a good zerg weapon. GS would have been decent if Hilt Bash had more targets, but it would still want a second good weapon. Unfortunelately, we're left with a dagger that should have been a core weapon to begin with. SB's zerg viability was dead on arrival, even though a permanently merged pet for new skills and stat bonuses + shareable stances looked good on paper.

Not sure why're you're bringing up cleanses to begin with. Druid is not just better suited at it, but pretty decent at it comparatively to other support builds. The main issue is that Engie's Purity of Purpose is stupidly broken and undermining other cleanse options. Druid could be quite capable in zergs if Anet made some smart changes to it. Even with all the nerfs it's still useable as a one-off in in smaller squad skirmishes and GvGs, immobilizing inside warrior bubbles while providing heals and cleanses.

Druid wasn't even capable back in beta when it was so utterly broken you could basically be in permanent CA form the entire night but just walking around with regen on yourself outside of combat

It would need nearly every CA skill as well as all of staff reworked to be anywhere close to what scrappers and FB bring while being as tanky

@Krispera.5087 said:The only hope we have is the next elite spec.

Lolololol I remember when I used to feel that elusive feeling... 'hope' .... about ranger in general. I've long since given up. I mean, I still main ranger in everything, but instead of hoping for improvements I'm just resigned to dealing with the endless bungling and lost opportunities.

@voltaicbore.8012 said:

@Krispera.5087 said:

The only hope we have is the next elite spec.

They completely shit the bed with stance share and an elite spec that is nothing but party heals

There's a 0.0001% they will offer anything that will perform in WvW with the next spec

Especially when it's almost certainly going to involve the pet walking around normally which means dead pet the entire lord room fight

Here we go, OP making claims other classes are OP or confused why rangers might be contextually weak without understanding the fundamentals...

@anduriell.6280 said:

@mistsim.2748 said:Genuine answer: running in zergs is about 1) surviving, 2) group synergy, and 3) aoe damage.Yes agreed still don't see the point to carry 2 different melee sets, they don't bring anything subtantial one to the other. If you want the melee theme because personal reasons it would be better to have 2 greatswords with trait to reduce CDs on swap.

Almost everyone in blobs runs dual melee or close to it-- at the very least, non-projectile. You run dual melee because the skills are better (and they are designed to be strong because range is safety) and because the blob is supposed to be a blob that moves together.If you're in need of range it means there are some things wrong:

• You're not organized
• You're too weak in numbers, cooldowns, or comp to engage
• Your group is running too much DPS.
• You're getting hazed and don't have projectile denial.
• You're getting bullied by random solo players because of the reasons above.

Rangers are extremely self-sufficient with a wide array of skills and builds, and one of the best duelists in the game, but blobs want 100% uptime on critical utility and durability over all else. A squad of soulbeasts will have huge gaps in their stability and immunity uptime.

@mistsim.2748 said:Longbow in general is trash because of projectile hate.Thank you for agreeing with me, Thus the trait to add unblockable when the projectile cross an ally combo field. It's something ranger should have gotten as soon as the firebrand got into the game.The reflects creep in the game is in its highest ever and makes any projectile based weapon mostly useless if there are two firebrands in an squad. This not only impacts longbow but also Axe, dagger offhand, torch and Shorbow.

Which is about a 80% of all the weapon skills a soulbeast has access to.

Easily-available unblockable access was something ranger/soulbeast historically had for a while and it proved to be stupidly overpowered in every environment that wasn't a blob because of their crazy high ranged damage from longbow and burst from GS and other skills (like WI) and stealth, and it was one of the many factors in larger group play which fostered a fighting environment where nobody ever fought, because it was just easier to not engage at all and res downed players, since it's not like longbow can push, anyways.

Every time you use GS counter to block someone's burst, and you feel rewarded for reacting to their damage, imagine their burst just ignoring what your skills do. Guardians AND elementalists for example have the lowest tier base HP in the game and depend on blocks as their defense just as thieves do with evades. Having a mechanic, especially one with such low visibility in blob play ("who's attacking me?") is a horrible idea.

Especially with soulbeast's mobility and burst damage/safe burst damage, there are not enough persistent engage tools in the game to pressure ranged kiting builds to make substantive access to unblockable effects a reasonable solution.

Also please change your flair. It's being intentionally disingenuous; you don't play DE and have spent the last year hating on thief almost exclusively to the point where you want it incapable of doing anything, because you don't know how the other classes work in general.

@"Substance E.4852" said:Druid wasn't even capable back in beta when it was so utterly broken you could basically be in permanent CA form the entire night but just walking around with regen on yourself outside of combat

It would need nearly every CA skill as well as all of staff reworked to be anywhere close to what scrappers and FB bring while being as tanky

For once maybe you could reply to what I'm actually saying instead of spouting out meaningless shit that is neither here nor there? I literally said "if Anet did some smart changes to it, it could be capable". That obviously includes the outdated staff and a couple of CA skills, and a some of the traits. In small scale (group of 15-25 ish) it's already useable as an on-off in the squad despite all the nerfs.

I never said anything about being close to or replacing Scrappers and FBs, engie got a broken condi conversion trait and FBs farts out unique and important boons and other defensive utilities like there is no tomorrow. And let's be real, guardian is never being replaced. Purity of Purpose? Might be yeeted out of the game one day, might not. Scrappers still has the stealth gyro to secure a couple of squad spots anyways.

SB will never get a decent squad build. It lacks the weapon for it, and the GS, bow and axes have recieved consecutive nerfs making them even worse than they were. Druid might, if Anet ever gets around to do some work on it (requires less work, fewer and more concise and focused changes than the bucket list of changes this thread introduces). If not we have to play the waiting game for the next elite spec - again. Thereby making the topic of this thread pointless.

@"mindcircus.1506" said:

Now if only there were a third group of ranger players who leveraged Soulbeast's existing kit to benefit a squad in a meaningful way. Thief offers less to the squad... and no one plays wvw support chrono these days. It wouldn't be Rev or FB but I am certain it could easily be as useful as support tempest. It may not be perfect for a specific comp but I sure wouldn't kick one off an open tag.The solution is not to bring Ranger up to FB's level. FB's been in need of a serious nerf since PoF launched.

I "try" to be the 3rd kind you're talking about here. I know it's not as effective as other classes but I like to pretend I'm contributing something to the group. I also don't get offended if I'm not invited to the squad or kicked as I think I bring my own boons. I just wish I had some more sources of stability. I do alright with the overflow zerg boons though. For the record I play GS and Axe/Warhorn. Usually on the Axe to kite and generate might for myself before pushing with the zerg. Axe 3 for the AOE chill and Warhorn 5 for blasting fields and providing boons to myself and those around me. I swap to GS in the middle of the fight for the DPS and cleave.

Here's my build for those that might be interested:http://gw2skills.net/editor/?PO1EE6MsMCGI7hFxMxU7a/ZWy5mC-zVZYBRNAGOrzgSPjalCVoCU8BZMGBHARWAYmCCA1QhjNA-w

No optimal by any means but it helps me live and fight.

Why Soulbeast is wanted in squads.

I got nothing :sweat_smile: , suggestions?

@"Eramonster.2718" said:Why Soulbeast is wanted in squads.

I got nothing :sweat_smile: , suggestions?Here you go, I posted that same discussion in WvW, because the stats you see here don't mean i can't get good ones too.This thread is to point out why soulbeast is not wanted in organized squads (even if it's just part of the squad) and that they are right not to want a ranger. Still not all the squad are the same and in some cases there is no actual reason to choose a Soulbeast over a Firebrand, for example.

Simple because it can't do anything that other professions don't do better.Druid is a joke compared to FB.Slb (back line) has excellent damage but most (if not all) of its damage is absorbed or reflected and has little Aoe damage, this puts Ele in a much better position.Ranger has the problem of having pets that are constantly dead.Warrior offers more CC, has more stability and skills that allow him to survive on the front line and Winds of Disenchantment is one of the best Elite.Necro needs no introduction.Then there are exceptions, Tempest and Scrapper have better healings than Druid, the mesmer portal or the veil are unique abilities.

There is no reason to put a Ranger in a Zerg, we can follow and try to bring down someone with Build Oneshot hoping that he will not be resurrected instantly

@Revolution.5409 said:Simple because it can't do anything that other professions don't do better.Druid is a joke compared to FB.Slb (back line) has excellent damage but most (if not all) of its damage is absorbed or reflected and has little Aoe damage, this puts Ele in a much better position.Ranger has the problem of having pets that are constantly dead.Warrior offers more CC, has more stability and skills that allow him to survive on the front line and Winds of Disenchantment is one of the best Elite.Necro needs no introduction.Then there are exceptions, Tempest and Scrapper have better healings than Druid, the mesmer portal or the veil are unique abilities.

There is no reason to put a Ranger in a Zerg, we can follow and try to bring down someone with Build Oneshot hoping that he will not be resurrected instantly

The main difference is that a druid can survive on his own outside the zerg if caught off guard...while a tempest/scrappers won't be as lucky, I'd argue that they can heal better , but to each his own