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When do you think warrior will be considered one of the meta pick

felix.2386felix.2386 Member ✭✭✭
edited July 29, 2020 in PVP

since the feb 2020 update

When do you think warrior will be considered one of the meta pick 34 votes

Dec 2020
32%
FrownyClown.8402Gryxis.6950Robban.1256LucianTheAngelic.7054Anna.7845mes.4607Raiden The Beast.3016jsp.6912Ovark.2514Mack.3045Noah Salazar.5430 11 votes
Jan 2021
5%
ButterPeanut.9746Astraeus.4982 2 votes
Feb 2021
2%
Obliviscaris.6937 1 vote
March 2021
8%
Evodium.6058mtnjkbm.7452Interpretor.6193 3 votes
April 2021
50%
Susy.7529bOTEB.1573Fat Disgrace.4275Arkantos.7460DanAlcedo.3281Thornwolf.9721Vancho.8750sitarskee.5738felix.2386Sun Mix.4659Tom.5914Lan Deathrider.5910Psycoprophet.8107Broady.2358Tycura.1982The Fear.3865TheBigPlay.7504 17 votes
<1

Comments

  • Virdo.1540Virdo.1540 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Way before december.

  • felix.2386felix.2386 Member ✭✭✭
    April 2021

    @Virdo.1540 said:
    Way before december.

    like....november?

  • KryTiKaL.3125KryTiKaL.3125 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited July 29, 2020

    @Tycura.1982 said:
    Maybe after the xpac but until then I have zero confidence in their ability to recognize problems and deal with them competently. Expect meaningless buffs in the meantime.

    CMC already said in a stream with Teapot and Angeels, when asked "is there a build in PvP that you consider to be the power level that you'd like to see across the entire game?" and he said that "warrior isn't necessarily the gold standard but it feels pretty good." Which means, if anything, other classes need to be nerfed and Warrior really only needs adjustments (Buffs or Nerfs) and possible QoL type stuff that provide more options as opposed the limited amount they have now. He also said that there are still things that could be brought down/nerfed on Warrior that still make sense. Which I agree with because it is not a perfect class and there are still things on it that overperform, its just that other things on other classes overperform so much more that they just overshadow everything else.

    I would clip/highlight the actual segment from the stream but the Twitch site is being very obnoxious with that right now for me. However I can tell you that the question is asked at about the 2:40:40 mark in the stream if you want to see it for yourselves.

  • felix.2386felix.2386 Member ✭✭✭
    edited July 29, 2020
    April 2021

    @KryTiKaL.3125 said:

    @Tycura.1982 said:
    Maybe after the xpac but until then I have zero confidence in their ability to recognize problems and deal with them competently. Expect meaningless buffs in the meantime.

    CMC already said in a stream with Teapot and Angeels, when asked "is there a build in PvP that you consider to be the power level that you'd like to see across the entire game?" and he said that "warrior isn't necessarily the gold standard but it feels pretty good." Which means, if anything, other classes need to be nerfed and Warrior really only needs adjustments (Buffs or Nerfs)

    We know that, warrior has been "feeling good" since 2012, warrior has never been underpowered, but either overpowered (quickly nerfed) or standard (underpowered but not buffing just nerfing everybody else)

    and we also know that, because they have been nerfing everything FOR 5 MONTHS already yet warrior is still trash..

    that's the point of the thread tbh, how long it takes for anet to nerf everything to warrior level standard, so that warrior can finally has a play with 5 months already passed.
    remember that FB still trashes warrior, yet this isnt even FB's meta yet..there's still many meta to come before finally reaching so called "warrior's standard"

  • KryTiKaL.3125KryTiKaL.3125 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @felix.2386 said:

    @KryTiKaL.3125 said:

    @Tycura.1982 said:
    Maybe after the xpac but until then I have zero confidence in their ability to recognize problems and deal with them competently. Expect meaningless buffs in the meantime.

    CMC already said in a stream with Teapot and Angeels, when asked "is there a build in PvP that you consider to be the power level that you'd like to see across the entire game?" and he said that "warrior isn't necessarily the gold standard but it feels pretty good." Which means, if anything, other classes need to be nerfed and Warrior really only needs adjustments (Buffs or Nerfs)

    We know that, warrior has been "feeling good" since 2012, warrior has never been underpowered, but either overpowered (quickly nerfed) or standard (underpowered but not buffing just nerfing everybody else)

    and we also know that, because they have been nerfing everything FOR 5 MONTHS already yet warrior is still trash..

    that's the point of the thread tbh, how long it takes for anet to nerf everything to warrior level standard, so that warrior can finally has a play with 5 months already passed.
    remember that FB still trashes warrior, yet this isnt even FB's meta yet..there's still many meta to come before finally reaching so called "warrior's standard"

    I understand the frustration, I'm right there with you, Warrior might "feel good" for the moment but that gets overrided by the overtuned things still going on right now with classes like FB and Holo and otherwise. I've said it before in other threads, its an issue of boon accessibility. Those classes, by comparison, projectile vomit boons onto themselves, and often others, and that is practically the entire reason why they are where they are. Warrior does not have that, neither do some other classes/specs, and because of that it gets pushed out. Boons need to be viewed as the issue on these classes and they need to look at it from the perspective of bringing that boon accessibility down.

    Now I am all for criticizing ANet for the slow cadence, and the patches not really having much of an impact in terms of balance, the thing is that any sort of change or rework to skills or traits needs to be forwarded to the skills team and unfortunately PvE is taken heavily into consideration for any of those kinds of changes. So for the most part its not entirely in CMCs hands, which is precisely why the passive traits haven't been reworked yet.

    This stuff is why they need to have those on the PvP balance team and the skills team, even the content teams, do a weekly devstream and have these kinds of Q&A/State of the Game type discussions. I highly doubt that they don't have something to talk about on a weekly basis, or at least an update to something. If weekly is too much bi-weekly at minimum.

  • Ragnar.4257Ragnar.4257 Member ✭✭✭
    edited July 29, 2020

    @KryTiKaL.3125 said:

    @felix.2386 said:

    @KryTiKaL.3125 said:

    @Tycura.1982 said:
    Maybe after the xpac but until then I have zero confidence in their ability to recognize problems and deal with them competently. Expect meaningless buffs in the meantime.

    CMC already said in a stream with Teapot and Angeels, when asked "is there a build in PvP that you consider to be the power level that you'd like to see across the entire game?" and he said that "warrior isn't necessarily the gold standard but it feels pretty good." Which means, if anything, other classes need to be nerfed and Warrior really only needs adjustments (Buffs or Nerfs)

    We know that, warrior has been "feeling good" since 2012, warrior has never been underpowered, but either overpowered (quickly nerfed) or standard (underpowered but not buffing just nerfing everybody else)

    and we also know that, because they have been nerfing everything FOR 5 MONTHS already yet warrior is still trash..

    that's the point of the thread tbh, how long it takes for anet to nerf everything to warrior level standard, so that warrior can finally has a play with 5 months already passed.
    remember that FB still trashes warrior, yet this isnt even FB's meta yet..there's still many meta to come before finally reaching so called "warrior's standard"

    I understand the frustration, I'm right there with you, Warrior might "feel good" for the moment but that gets overrided by the overtuned things still going on right now with classes like FB and Holo and otherwise. I've said it before in other threads, its an issue of boon accessibility. Those classes, by comparison, projectile vomit boons onto themselves, and often others, and that is practically the entire reason why they are where they are. Warrior does not have that, neither do some other classes/specs, and because of that it gets pushed out. Boons need to be viewed as the issue on these classes and they need to look at it from the perspective of bringing that boon accessibility down.

    Now I am all for criticizing ANet for the slow cadence, and the patches not really having much of an impact in terms of balance, the thing is that any sort of change or rework to skills or traits needs to be forwarded to the skills team and unfortunately PvE is taken heavily into consideration for any of those kinds of changes. So for the most part its not entirely in CMCs hands, which is precisely why the passive traits haven't been reworked yet.

    This stuff is why they need to have those on the PvP balance team and the skills team, even the content teams, do a weekly devstream and have these kinds of Q&A/State of the Game type discussions. I highly doubt that they don't have something to talk about on a weekly basis, or at least an update to something. If weekly is too much bi-weekly at minimum.

    You know, the reason guardian has aegis+protection is because it doesn't have 19k base health and endure-pain, shield block, evades, etc etc right? You can't complain that a class that is specifically designed to be statistically weak, but instead relies on boons...... relies on boons. Similarly Ele and Engi are designed with boons in mind.

    The current issue with guardian/FB is symbols. Nobody likes them, either those playing with them or against them, and fortunately CMC appears to be aware of this issue. Guardian boon generation is actually pretty average compared to the likes of holo/scrapper, ranger/soulbeast, rev/herald. Go and see which one can maintain higher uptimes on protection, stability, vigor, or generate higher stacks of might. I dare you. Boons got hit very very hard in february, they really aren't the issue anymore. FB elite mantra provides 1s stability.... on 45s cooldown. Wauw such boon-vomit.

    As for warrior, it really would only take another shave to holo, a symbol rework, and a shave to rev evade/block-chaining, and it would be perfectly viable. I can totally see condi-zerker coming back and being a thing, especially now mallyx got trimmed.

  • felix.2386felix.2386 Member ✭✭✭
    April 2021

    @Ragnar.4257 said:

    As for warrior, it really would only take another shave to holo, a symbol rework, and a shave to rev evade/block-chaining, and it would be perfectly viable.

    so in like 1 year and 6 month?

  • KryTiKaL.3125KryTiKaL.3125 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Ragnar.4257 said:

    @KryTiKaL.3125 said:

    @felix.2386 said:

    @KryTiKaL.3125 said:

    @Tycura.1982 said:
    Maybe after the xpac but until then I have zero confidence in their ability to recognize problems and deal with them competently. Expect meaningless buffs in the meantime.

    CMC already said in a stream with Teapot and Angeels, when asked "is there a build in PvP that you consider to be the power level that you'd like to see across the entire game?" and he said that "warrior isn't necessarily the gold standard but it feels pretty good." Which means, if anything, other classes need to be nerfed and Warrior really only needs adjustments (Buffs or Nerfs)

    We know that, warrior has been "feeling good" since 2012, warrior has never been underpowered, but either overpowered (quickly nerfed) or standard (underpowered but not buffing just nerfing everybody else)

    and we also know that, because they have been nerfing everything FOR 5 MONTHS already yet warrior is still trash..

    that's the point of the thread tbh, how long it takes for anet to nerf everything to warrior level standard, so that warrior can finally has a play with 5 months already passed.
    remember that FB still trashes warrior, yet this isnt even FB's meta yet..there's still many meta to come before finally reaching so called "warrior's standard"

    I understand the frustration, I'm right there with you, Warrior might "feel good" for the moment but that gets overrided by the overtuned things still going on right now with classes like FB and Holo and otherwise. I've said it before in other threads, its an issue of boon accessibility. Those classes, by comparison, projectile vomit boons onto themselves, and often others, and that is practically the entire reason why they are where they are. Warrior does not have that, neither do some other classes/specs, and because of that it gets pushed out. Boons need to be viewed as the issue on these classes and they need to look at it from the perspective of bringing that boon accessibility down.

    Now I am all for criticizing ANet for the slow cadence, and the patches not really having much of an impact in terms of balance, the thing is that any sort of change or rework to skills or traits needs to be forwarded to the skills team and unfortunately PvE is taken heavily into consideration for any of those kinds of changes. So for the most part its not entirely in CMCs hands, which is precisely why the passive traits haven't been reworked yet.

    This stuff is why they need to have those on the PvP balance team and the skills team, even the content teams, do a weekly devstream and have these kinds of Q&A/State of the Game type discussions. I highly doubt that they don't have something to talk about on a weekly basis, or at least an update to something. If weekly is too much bi-weekly at minimum.

    You know, the reason guardian has aegis+protection is because it doesn't have 19k base health and endure-pain, shield block, evades, etc etc right? You can't complain that a class that is specifically designed to be statistically weak, but instead relies on boons...... relies on boons. Similarly Ele and Engi are designed with boons in mind.

    The current issue with guardian/FB is symbols. Nobody likes them, either those playing with them or against them, and fortunately CMC appears to be aware of this issue. Guardian boon generation is actually pretty average compared to the likes of holo/scrapper, ranger/soulbeast, rev/herald. Go and see which one can maintain higher uptimes on protection, stability, vigor, or generate higher stacks of might. I dare you. Boons got hit very very hard in february, they really aren't the issue anymore. FB elite mantra provides 1s stability.... on 45s cooldown. Wauw such boon-vomit.

    As for warrior, it really would only take another shave to holo, a symbol rework, and a shave to rev evade/block-chaining, and it would be perfectly viable. I can totally see condi-zerker coming back and being a thing, especially now mallyx got trimmed.

    Yes, I'm well aware of why Guardian has Aegis and Protection. Core Guardian is probably fine, probably only needing a bit more trimming but nothing too severe. Firebrand is what that particular comment was referencing; hence "classes like FB and Holo and otherwise" nowhere was Core Guardian, or Dragonhunter, referenced as being overbearing with boons. Specifically Firebrand is more oppressive with it, even with the nerf to its Mantra elite that same skill still gives 5 stacks of Stability for 4 1/4 sec on its second charge not counting running Stand Your Ground as well. So yes it has been trimmed down but not so much that it isn't still so much more oppressive against everything else, its just "less so" than Holo/Scrapper, Ranger/Soulbeast, Revenant/Herald.

    This isn't an attack on FB, its an acknowledgement that while there have been steps taken to lessen how oppressive it is there is still more that can be done but not just to that one particular class. All of the overperforming and highly oppressive classes right now all have almost the same thing in common,you even highlighted it in your own post by naming those classes, that practically shoves everything else out of the way; Boons.

    How do you think the power creep got so bad over time? Sure traits and skills are contributors, but the one constant that ANet has put into their Elite Spec design starting from HoT all the way into PoF and beyond is more and more access to more boons. Thats why Spellbreaker was so overtuned, its Might generation was obscene and it could generate a heavy flow of it from Magebane Tether and other traits/skills. Soulbeast has/had so much sustain because of its access, and length of, 10+ stacks of Stability that it could just drop on itself paired with access to Regeneration and Protection as well. Why do you think Herald became a staple of team comps in either sPvP or WvW? The constant and persistent flow of boons that it provided, and still does to this day. Those are just a few examples, there are more.

    I'm not saying all boons should be stripped away from any one class, but how accessible they are should be something that is looked at and addressed more. Even Warrior and Spellbreaker can still generate a silly amount of Might in a relatively short amount of time, its why Berserker doesn't measure up to either of those specs in PvP; because it does not have anywhere near the same kind of boon generation and purely exists to exploit its "one trick pony" nature with Arc Divider and Gunflame. Its to the point that Berserker is used in zergs in WvW because boon sharing allows them to have access to those same amounts of Might, and other boons. sPvP does not provide those same benefits, at least not to the same capacity.

    I apologize for the length of the post, but I wanted to try and explain properly and I'm not terribly good at keeping my thoughts concise.

  • Virdo.1540Virdo.1540 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @felix.2386 said:

    @Virdo.1540 said:
    Way before december.

    like....november?

    id they take extra time for their coffee, maybe

  • SeikeNz.3526SeikeNz.3526 Member ✭✭✭

    warrior was always meta and op

  • Mack.3045Mack.3045 Member ✭✭✭
    Dec 2020

    When other classes are nerfed to the Warrior equivalent baseline as CMC said.

  • felix.2386felix.2386 Member ✭✭✭
    edited July 30, 2020
    April 2021

    why is warrior allowed to be completely trash and unplayable for half of a year now just because it "feels good"?
    like we understand that "no one is perfect" "some balance changes may be wrong"

    but simply keeping warrior in this unplayable state in pvp willingly for half of a year and more just because it "feels good"
    this mentality shouldnt be allowed

  • Arheundel.6451Arheundel.6451 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Mack.3045 said:
    When other classes are nerfed to the Warrior equivalent baseline as CMC said.

    Actually all classes including warrior should be nerfed to core ele levels as it has been established as the weakest spec in the game, on top of which under performing elites have been placed

    -A wise man once said- "Fight cheese with cheese or be cheesed in return, mind not those who will accuse you of being a cheese as they like cheese themselves"

  • Shao.7236Shao.7236 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Warrior will find it's spot the moment people start exploring their options rather than stick with the same old.

    Willing to help with anything Revenant related.

  • felix.2386felix.2386 Member ✭✭✭
    edited July 30, 2020
    April 2021

    @Shao.7236 said:
    Warrior will find it's spot the moment people start exploring their options rather than stick with the same old.

    it is funny how you think players haven't tried different builds
    let me tell you the numbers of builds i tried on warrior since feb 25th greatly surpass all revenant builds that ever existed all together since HoT release.
    but it's ok, keep going with your superiority complex.

  • Shiyo.3578Shiyo.3578 Member ✭✭✭✭

    I've heard rumors that spellbreaker is what CmC is trying to balance the game around. I actually agree 100%

  • felix.2386felix.2386 Member ✭✭✭
    edited July 30, 2020
    April 2021

    @Shiyo.3578 said:
    I've heard rumors that spellbreaker is what CmC is trying to balance the game around. I actually agree 100%

    of course, spellbreaker is the only thing that's remotely close to playable for warrior and that's just playable, not one of the tournament picks.
    everything else are far far away from being competitive in plat+, berserker is just completely meme cancer garbage in terms class mechanics for pvp.

    @Xca.9721 said:
    It has been meta since PoF launch, i think you can handle a couple months of not being broken.

    i don't think you ever paid any attention to actual pvp meta that's not gold since PoF but it's ok

  • Vancho.8750Vancho.8750 Member ✭✭✭✭
    April 2021

    The real question is when will Berserker will be viable, after the pre PoF nerfs it was never able to be even remotely considered Meta,or even reach B tier build levels.
    Wish it had a place different from spellbreaker so it has its niche that doesn't overlap the side node.
    Also why is warrior locked on discipline on all builds in all modes, like warrior can't function without it, that is why warrior is stuck in one play style for like forever, you only get to pick 2 traitlines warrior ends up playing the same because of discipline. Also it is not like the traitline is op or anything it just gives really basic simple stuff that help warrior function and the other traitlines lack those.

  • Shao.7236Shao.7236 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited July 30, 2020

    @felix.2386 said:

    @Shao.7236 said:
    Warrior will find it's spot the moment people start exploring their options rather than stick with the same old.

    it is funny how you think players haven't tried different builds
    let me tell you the numbers of builds i tried on warrior since feb 25th greatly surpass all revenant builds that ever existed all together since HoT release.
    but it's ok, keep going with your superiority complex.

    Anything that's not Jalis on Revenant gets destroyed by Core Warrior. Even Herald Power or Condition, they are sitting ducks for Warrior. It's statistically done by class design. You speak like Shiro was never nerfed, you aren't keeping up with the available options at all.

    Willing to help with anything Revenant related.

  • Avatar.3568Avatar.3568 Member ✭✭✭✭

    I think in the coming month could we have a healbreaker meta

  • If the trend keeps up:
    Xpac releases -> Warrior op -> Nerfed to oblivion over time -> Trash-tier until next xpac[Repeat]

    It happened with Zerker and HoT then Spellbreaker and PoF

    This poll is basically just guessing when the xpac and new elite specs will come around. Fall 2021 is my guess.

    Ranked DuoQ 😡👉🚪

  • Shiyo.3578Shiyo.3578 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Leonidrex.5649 said:

    @Avatar.3568 said:
    I think in the coming month could we have a healbreaker meta

    I agree, support warrior is much better then people give it credit. BUT.
    even if its good or meta warriors will still have right to be mad.
    When you create a warrior you wanna manly frontline that kitten people up, not a healer that gives might to people.

    How about the wizard class being turned into a healbot, too?

  • felix.2386felix.2386 Member ✭✭✭
    edited July 31, 2020
    April 2021

    @Shao.7236 said:

    @felix.2386 said:

    @Shao.7236 said:
    Warrior will find it's spot the moment people start exploring their options rather than stick with the same old.

    it is funny how you think players haven't tried different builds
    let me tell you the numbers of builds i tried on warrior since feb 25th greatly surpass all revenant builds that ever existed all together since HoT release.
    but it's ok, keep going with your superiority complex.

    Anything that's not Jalis on Revenant gets destroyed by Core Warrior. Even Herald Power or Condition, they are sitting ducks for Warrior. It's statistically done by class design. You speak like Shiro was never nerfed, you aren't keeping up with the available options at all.

    yes, that's totally why people picked 2 core warrior to counter 2 condi rev meta, like how they picked 2 condi rev to counter condi thief.
    oh wait, nobody did.
    im sorry that you can't play one of the most braindead build in the game

    @Avatar.3568 said:
    I think in the coming month could we have a healbreaker meta

    healbreaker is miles below tempest.
    tempest can shut down lich with a single skill for the team.
    also aoe reflective aura, shock aura.
    and way more relatable res skills with stab cover and tornado.
    even healbrand is better.

    healbreaker will work in ranked games, but in AT meta, healbreaker isnt even close. unless heavy nerf hammer goes to tempest and healbrand

  • Shao.7236Shao.7236 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @felix.2386 said:

    @Shao.7236 said:

    @felix.2386 said:

    @Shao.7236 said:
    Warrior will find it's spot the moment people start exploring their options rather than stick with the same old.

    it is funny how you think players haven't tried different builds
    let me tell you the numbers of builds i tried on warrior since feb 25th greatly surpass all revenant builds that ever existed all together since HoT release.
    but it's ok, keep going with your superiority complex.

    Anything that's not Jalis on Revenant gets destroyed by Core Warrior. Even Herald Power or Condition, they are sitting ducks for Warrior. It's statistically done by class design. You speak like Shiro was never nerfed, you aren't keeping up with the available options at all.

    yes, that's totally why people picked 2 core warrior to counter 2 condi rev meta, like how they picked 2 condi rev to counter condi thief.
    oh wait, im sorry that you can't play one of the most braindead build in the game

    Let's all ignore the fact that Warrior was irrelevant to most for it's entire existence in PvP until PoF came out with the evade spam from Magebane to dance around at far.

    Never was good for teamfights, always was good at 1v1, still good at 1v1 right now. It's unfortunate anything for warrior is a meme build because it can get kills but not carry an entire game. Who would have thought that to be good enough, you need to absolutely dominate at everything and whom dare have a counter to Warrior, this meta is not balanced if Warrior is not the best. Wish that actually made sense because you're gonna have to delete Guardian from the game if you want it to be balanced.

    You're pretty funny though, thanks for reminding me that me and boa actually defined Herald Condition but not always have played. In fact, I probably have provided the most variety of content for Revenant in this game than anyone else who ever played it. You can keep whining about it, I don't even play it anymore, those nerfs like said barely affects me, only kills the possibility that people shouldn't have to only trait for Resistance KEK. Core Condition is still alive, so is Power. Herald Condition is still gonna run around with 3 traits for Resistance and still full heal from goofs to fully return conditions back at peak play, have fun with it.

    I enjoy Warrior the way it is right now and I enjoy the fact that it can CC lock and down 7 professions out of 9. Core Power Revenant can still do all 9 given the effort and good plays. ✌️

    Willing to help with anything Revenant related.

  • felix.2386felix.2386 Member ✭✭✭
    April 2021

    @Shao.7236 said:

    @felix.2386 said:

    @Shao.7236 said:

    @felix.2386 said:

    @Shao.7236 said:
    Warrior will find it's spot the moment people start exploring their options rather than stick with the same old.

    it is funny how you think players haven't tried different builds
    let me tell you the numbers of builds i tried on warrior since feb 25th greatly surpass all revenant builds that ever existed all together since HoT release.
    but it's ok, keep going with your superiority complex.

    Anything that's not Jalis on Revenant gets destroyed by Core Warrior. Even Herald Power or Condition, they are sitting ducks for Warrior. It's statistically done by class design. You speak like Shiro was never nerfed, you aren't keeping up with the available options at all.

    yes, that's totally why people picked 2 core warrior to counter 2 condi rev meta, like how they picked 2 condi rev to counter condi thief.
    oh wait, im sorry that you can't play one of the most braindead build in the game

    Let's all ignore the fact that Warrior was irrelevant to most for it's entire existence in PvP until PoF came out with the evade spam from Magebane to dance around at far.

    Never was good for teamfights, always was good at 1v1, still good at 1v1 right now. It's unfortunate anything for warrior is a meme build because it can get kills but not carry an entire game. Who would have thought that to be good enough, you need to absolutely dominate at everything and whom dare have a counter to Warrior, this meta is not balanced if Warrior is not the best. Wish that actually made sense because you're gonna have to delete Guardian from the game if you want it to be balanced.

    You're pretty funny though, thanks for reminding me that me and boa actually defined Herald Condition but not always have played. In fact, I probably have provided the most variety of content for Revenant in this game than anyone else who ever played it. You can keep whining about it, I don't even play it anymore, those nerfs like said barely affects me, only kills the possibility that people shouldn't have to only trait for Resistance KEK. Core Condition is still alive, so is Power. Herald Condition is still gonna run around with 3 traits for Resistance and still full heal from goofs to fully return conditions back at peak play, have fun with it.

    I enjoy Warrior the way it is right now and I enjoy the fact that it can CC lock and down 7 professions out of 9. Core Power Revenant can still do all 9 given the effort and good plays. ✌️

    thanks man, you are also pretty funny, how you call out other classes for not trying new things when yourself is a one trick pony who play one of the most braindead build on one of the least diverse class in the game that's also been favored by anet since it's release.

    also funny how you talk like warrior kills 7 out of 9 classes, i'm sure that's why it hasn't appeared in any AT since 5 months ago. ✌️

  • Yasai.3549Yasai.3549 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Warrior will only be meta once Land Spear becomes a thing apparently.

    Don't get me wrong, I HATE the idea of Land Spear, but I'm willing to bet that at least 30% of Warrior mains are secretly still hoping for Land Spear to be a thing.

    If I play a stupid build, I deserve to die.
    If I beat people on a stupid build, I deserve to get away with it.

  • Shao.7236Shao.7236 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @felix.2386 said:

    @Shao.7236 said:

    @felix.2386 said:

    @Shao.7236 said:

    @felix.2386 said:

    @Shao.7236 said:
    Warrior will find it's spot the moment people start exploring their options rather than stick with the same old.

    it is funny how you think players haven't tried different builds
    let me tell you the numbers of builds i tried on warrior since feb 25th greatly surpass all revenant builds that ever existed all together since HoT release.
    but it's ok, keep going with your superiority complex.

    Anything that's not Jalis on Revenant gets destroyed by Core Warrior. Even Herald Power or Condition, they are sitting ducks for Warrior. It's statistically done by class design. You speak like Shiro was never nerfed, you aren't keeping up with the available options at all.

    yes, that's totally why people picked 2 core warrior to counter 2 condi rev meta, like how they picked 2 condi rev to counter condi thief.
    oh wait, im sorry that you can't play one of the most braindead build in the game

    Let's all ignore the fact that Warrior was irrelevant to most for it's entire existence in PvP until PoF came out with the evade spam from Magebane to dance around at far.

    Never was good for teamfights, always was good at 1v1, still good at 1v1 right now. It's unfortunate anything for warrior is a meme build because it can get kills but not carry an entire game. Who would have thought that to be good enough, you need to absolutely dominate at everything and whom dare have a counter to Warrior, this meta is not balanced if Warrior is not the best. Wish that actually made sense because you're gonna have to delete Guardian from the game if you want it to be balanced.

    You're pretty funny though, thanks for reminding me that me and boa actually defined Herald Condition but not always have played. In fact, I probably have provided the most variety of content for Revenant in this game than anyone else who ever played it. You can keep whining about it, I don't even play it anymore, those nerfs like said barely affects me, only kills the possibility that people shouldn't have to only trait for Resistance KEK. Core Condition is still alive, so is Power. Herald Condition is still gonna run around with 3 traits for Resistance and still full heal from goofs to fully return conditions back at peak play, have fun with it.

    I enjoy Warrior the way it is right now and I enjoy the fact that it can CC lock and down 7 professions out of 9. Core Power Revenant can still do all 9 given the effort and good plays. ✌️

    thanks man, you are also pretty funny, how you call out other classes for not trying new things when yourself is a one trick pony who play one of the most braindead build on one of the least diverse class in the game that's also been favored by anet since it's release.

    also funny how you talk like warrior kills 7 out of 9 classes, i'm sure that's why it hasn't appeared in any AT since 5 months ago. ✌️

    You're talking like people care about being good in AT's in a MMO, like they'd want to play with something that takes effort for their win, like they actually have an identity.

    I have defined for myself at least 8 builds on Revenant that I randomly alternate to and have 3 that I officially use effectively to enjoy ranked.

    Call me a one trick pony when my stats say otherwise, I just don't care for Ranger Mesmer or Necromancer, not like I have ever really complained about them that much either. Revenant is pretty diverse and has it's flow barely anyone understands nor care about because complexity hurts muh efficency, sure as hell explains why there isn't much to look for lately since the lack of effort is apparent, we have to actually delete builds that can get farmed to appease the playerbase.

    https://i.imgur.com/ef9rtTf.png

    I have actual content to display as well since you're so stuck to the idea that I'm only a herald condition. I was for more than 2 years and have mixed up my builds long before it was meta for the past 5 months, even had a small go at the unoriginal Herald Power while it was at it's lowest performance when Scourge was apparently OP.

    Willing to help with anything Revenant related.

  • KryTiKaL.3125KryTiKaL.3125 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Shao.7236 said:

    @felix.2386 said:

    @Shao.7236 said:

    @felix.2386 said:

    @Shao.7236 said:
    Warrior will find it's spot the moment people start exploring their options rather than stick with the same old.

    it is funny how you think players haven't tried different builds
    let me tell you the numbers of builds i tried on warrior since feb 25th greatly surpass all revenant builds that ever existed all together since HoT release.
    but it's ok, keep going with your superiority complex.

    Anything that's not Jalis on Revenant gets destroyed by Core Warrior. Even Herald Power or Condition, they are sitting ducks for Warrior. It's statistically done by class design. You speak like Shiro was never nerfed, you aren't keeping up with the available options at all.

    yes, that's totally why people picked 2 core warrior to counter 2 condi rev meta, like how they picked 2 condi rev to counter condi thief.
    oh wait, im sorry that you can't play one of the most braindead build in the game

    Let's all ignore the fact that Warrior was irrelevant to most for it's entire existence in PvP until PoF came out with the evade spam from Magebane to dance around at far.

    Never was good for teamfights, always was good at 1v1, still good at 1v1 right now. It's unfortunate anything for warrior is a meme build because it can get kills but not carry an entire game. Who would have thought that to be good enough, you need to absolutely dominate at everything and whom dare have a counter to Warrior, this meta is not balanced if Warrior is not the best. Wish that actually made sense because you're gonna have to delete Guardian from the game if you want it to be balanced.

    You're pretty funny though, thanks for reminding me that me and boa actually defined Herald Condition but not always have played. In fact, I probably have provided the most variety of content for Revenant in this game than anyone else who ever played it. You can keep whining about it, I don't even play it anymore, those nerfs like said barely affects me, only kills the possibility that people shouldn't have to only trait for Resistance KEK. Core Condition is still alive, so is Power. Herald Condition is still gonna run around with 3 traits for Resistance and still full heal from goofs to fully return conditions back at peak play, have fun with it.

    I enjoy Warrior the way it is right now and I enjoy the fact that it can CC lock and down 7 professions out of 9. Core Power Revenant can still do all 9 given the effort and good plays. ✌️

    A 5v5 team based objective capture PvP mode should not have its meta built around having someone fulfill the role of "carrying an entire match". Thats pretty much why solo/duo queue only matchmaking is a grotesque abomination to have in such a thing, particularly because there are no options outside of that. That is an extremely counter productive system to have. Why do you think ESL yeeted itself away from GW2?

    Also Warrior was not "irrelevant to most for its entire existence in PvP until PoF came out" I'm not sure where you were for HoT meta, and even Core meta, but...that is just wildly inaccurate. Lets also not forget that Revenant, primarily Herald, was a particularly overtuned class at the onset of HoT due to a variety of reasons. Chief among them is that Herald was part of the beginning of ANet overloading classes with boons, in fact Herald is probably why this happened beginning with HoT and it getting exponentially worse with time. In HoT it wasn't that bad, but PoF really exacerbated it exponentially and you're right, Spellbreaker was extremely oppressive because of Magebane and the Might generation from it and I have echoed that repeatedly on these forums and ingame.

    However, your assertion that it was "irrelevant" until PoF is not accurate. Look below, skim through them if you don't want to watch the entire videos, thats fine, but you'll see Warrior was used even in ESL. There are loads of these videos, and sure it isn't present in all of them, neither is Ranger or some other classes but they still had presence and were still relevant.

  • Leonidrex.5649Leonidrex.5649 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Shiyo.3578 said:

    @Leonidrex.5649 said:

    @Avatar.3568 said:
    I think in the coming month could we have a healbreaker meta

    I agree, support warrior is much better then people give it credit. BUT.
    even if its good or meta warriors will still have right to be mad.
    When you create a warrior you wanna manly frontline that kitten people up, not a healer that gives might to people.

    How about the wizard class being turned into a healbot, too?

    same thing really.
    If the class doesnt have a meta build that works on the principle of the class then it has failed and it needs to be changed in a way that it will.
    Imagine the world where the only meta thief build is some sort of bunker that stacks weakness, healing and siphons to survive.
    Thief players will have all the right to whine and kitten about it. They didnt make thief to bunker but to be mobile and to be offensive.

  • felix.2386felix.2386 Member ✭✭✭
    April 2021

    @Yasai.3549 said:
    Warrior will only be meta once Land Spear becomes a thing apparently.

    Don't get me wrong, I HATE the idea of Land Spear, but I'm willing to bet that at least 30% of Warrior mains are secretly still hoping for Land Spear to be a thing.

    you are not wrong, spears have some sick skins

  • Dantheman.3589Dantheman.3589 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Ragnar.4257 said:

    @KryTiKaL.3125 said:

    @felix.2386 said:

    @KryTiKaL.3125 said:

    @Tycura.1982 said:
    Maybe after the xpac but until then I have zero confidence in their ability to recognize problems and deal with them competently. Expect meaningless buffs in the meantime.

    CMC already said in a stream with Teapot and Angeels, when asked "is there a build in PvP that you consider to be the power level that you'd like to see across the entire game?" and he said that "warrior isn't necessarily the gold standard but it feels pretty good." Which means, if anything, other classes need to be nerfed and Warrior really only needs adjustments (Buffs or Nerfs)

    We know that, warrior has been "feeling good" since 2012, warrior has never been underpowered, but either overpowered (quickly nerfed) or standard (underpowered but not buffing just nerfing everybody else)

    and we also know that, because they have been nerfing everything FOR 5 MONTHS already yet warrior is still trash..

    that's the point of the thread tbh, how long it takes for anet to nerf everything to warrior level standard, so that warrior can finally has a play with 5 months already passed.
    remember that FB still trashes warrior, yet this isnt even FB's meta yet..there's still many meta to come before finally reaching so called "warrior's standard"

    I understand the frustration, I'm right there with you, Warrior might "feel good" for the moment but that gets overrided by the overtuned things still going on right now with classes like FB and Holo and otherwise. I've said it before in other threads, its an issue of boon accessibility. Those classes, by comparison, projectile vomit boons onto themselves, and often others, and that is practically the entire reason why they are where they are. Warrior does not have that, neither do some other classes/specs, and because of that it gets pushed out. Boons need to be viewed as the issue on these classes and they need to look at it from the perspective of bringing that boon accessibility down.

    Now I am all for criticizing ANet for the slow cadence, and the patches not really having much of an impact in terms of balance, the thing is that any sort of change or rework to skills or traits needs to be forwarded to the skills team and unfortunately PvE is taken heavily into consideration for any of those kinds of changes. So for the most part its not entirely in CMCs hands, which is precisely why the passive traits haven't been reworked yet.

    This stuff is why they need to have those on the PvP balance team and the skills team, even the content teams, do a weekly devstream and have these kinds of Q&A/State of the Game type discussions. I highly doubt that they don't have something to talk about on a weekly basis, or at least an update to something. If weekly is too much bi-weekly at minimum.

    You know, the reason guardian has aegis+protection is because it doesn't have 19k base health and endure-pain, shield block, evades, etc etc right? You can't complain that a class that is specifically designed to be statistically weak, but instead relies on boons...... relies on boons. Similarly Ele and Engi are designed with boons in mind.

    The current issue with guardian/FB is symbols. Nobody likes them, either those playing with them or against them, and fortunately CMC appears to be aware of this issue. Guardian boon generation is actually pretty average compared to the likes of holo/scrapper, ranger/soulbeast, rev/herald. Go and see which one can maintain higher uptimes on protection, stability, vigor, or generate higher stacks of might. I dare you. Boons got hit very very hard in february, they really aren't the issue anymore. FB elite mantra provides 1s stability.... on 45s cooldown. Wauw such boon-vomit.

    As for warrior, it really would only take another shave to holo, a symbol rework, and a shave to rev evade/block-chaining, and it would be perfectly viable. I can totally see condi-zerker coming back and being a thing, especially now mallyx got trimmed.

    The issue is symbols because no one likes them? Every guard I knows has heard about cmc wanting to remove them and thinks that’s a terrible idea and no one I know complains about playing against symbol guards, in fact everyone I know thinks it’s balanced and somewhat interesting...

  • felix.2386felix.2386 Member ✭✭✭
    April 2021

    @Dantheman.3589 said:

    @Ragnar.4257 said:

    @KryTiKaL.3125 said:

    @felix.2386 said:

    @KryTiKaL.3125 said:

    @Tycura.1982 said:
    Maybe after the xpac but until then I have zero confidence in their ability to recognize problems and deal with them competently. Expect meaningless buffs in the meantime.

    CMC already said in a stream with Teapot and Angeels, when asked "is there a build in PvP that you consider to be the power level that you'd like to see across the entire game?" and he said that "warrior isn't necessarily the gold standard but it feels pretty good." Which means, if anything, other classes need to be nerfed and Warrior really only needs adjustments (Buffs or Nerfs)

    We know that, warrior has been "feeling good" since 2012, warrior has never been underpowered, but either overpowered (quickly nerfed) or standard (underpowered but not buffing just nerfing everybody else)

    and we also know that, because they have been nerfing everything FOR 5 MONTHS already yet warrior is still trash..

    that's the point of the thread tbh, how long it takes for anet to nerf everything to warrior level standard, so that warrior can finally has a play with 5 months already passed.
    remember that FB still trashes warrior, yet this isnt even FB's meta yet..there's still many meta to come before finally reaching so called "warrior's standard"

    I understand the frustration, I'm right there with you, Warrior might "feel good" for the moment but that gets overrided by the overtuned things still going on right now with classes like FB and Holo and otherwise. I've said it before in other threads, its an issue of boon accessibility. Those classes, by comparison, projectile vomit boons onto themselves, and often others, and that is practically the entire reason why they are where they are. Warrior does not have that, neither do some other classes/specs, and because of that it gets pushed out. Boons need to be viewed as the issue on these classes and they need to look at it from the perspective of bringing that boon accessibility down.

    Now I am all for criticizing ANet for the slow cadence, and the patches not really having much of an impact in terms of balance, the thing is that any sort of change or rework to skills or traits needs to be forwarded to the skills team and unfortunately PvE is taken heavily into consideration for any of those kinds of changes. So for the most part its not entirely in CMCs hands, which is precisely why the passive traits haven't been reworked yet.

    This stuff is why they need to have those on the PvP balance team and the skills team, even the content teams, do a weekly devstream and have these kinds of Q&A/State of the Game type discussions. I highly doubt that they don't have something to talk about on a weekly basis, or at least an update to something. If weekly is too much bi-weekly at minimum.

    You know, the reason guardian has aegis+protection is because it doesn't have 19k base health and endure-pain, shield block, evades, etc etc right? You can't complain that a class that is specifically designed to be statistically weak, but instead relies on boons...... relies on boons. Similarly Ele and Engi are designed with boons in mind.

    The current issue with guardian/FB is symbols. Nobody likes them, either those playing with them or against them, and fortunately CMC appears to be aware of this issue. Guardian boon generation is actually pretty average compared to the likes of holo/scrapper, ranger/soulbeast, rev/herald. Go and see which one can maintain higher uptimes on protection, stability, vigor, or generate higher stacks of might. I dare you. Boons got hit very very hard in february, they really aren't the issue anymore. FB elite mantra provides 1s stability.... on 45s cooldown. Wauw such boon-vomit.

    As for warrior, it really would only take another shave to holo, a symbol rework, and a shave to rev evade/block-chaining, and it would be perfectly viable. I can totally see condi-zerker coming back and being a thing, especially now mallyx got trimmed.

    The issue is symbols because no one likes them? Every guard I knows has heard about cmc wanting to remove them and thinks that’s a terrible idea and no one I know complains about playing against symbol guards, in fact everyone I know thinks it’s balanced and somewhat interesting...

    wrong,
    guardian spamming aoe has always been problematic, just less so now as guardian is outshined by tempest.
    regardless how strong tempest is, i'm just glad that it pushed FB out of the meta

  • Dantheman.3589Dantheman.3589 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @felix.2386 said:

    @Dantheman.3589 said:

    @Ragnar.4257 said:

    @KryTiKaL.3125 said:

    @felix.2386 said:

    @KryTiKaL.3125 said:

    @Tycura.1982 said:
    Maybe after the xpac but until then I have zero confidence in their ability to recognize problems and deal with them competently. Expect meaningless buffs in the meantime.

    CMC already said in a stream with Teapot and Angeels, when asked "is there a build in PvP that you consider to be the power level that you'd like to see across the entire game?" and he said that "warrior isn't necessarily the gold standard but it feels pretty good." Which means, if anything, other classes need to be nerfed and Warrior really only needs adjustments (Buffs or Nerfs)

    We know that, warrior has been "feeling good" since 2012, warrior has never been underpowered, but either overpowered (quickly nerfed) or standard (underpowered but not buffing just nerfing everybody else)

    and we also know that, because they have been nerfing everything FOR 5 MONTHS already yet warrior is still trash..

    that's the point of the thread tbh, how long it takes for anet to nerf everything to warrior level standard, so that warrior can finally has a play with 5 months already passed.
    remember that FB still trashes warrior, yet this isnt even FB's meta yet..there's still many meta to come before finally reaching so called "warrior's standard"

    I understand the frustration, I'm right there with you, Warrior might "feel good" for the moment but that gets overrided by the overtuned things still going on right now with classes like FB and Holo and otherwise. I've said it before in other threads, its an issue of boon accessibility. Those classes, by comparison, projectile vomit boons onto themselves, and often others, and that is practically the entire reason why they are where they are. Warrior does not have that, neither do some other classes/specs, and because of that it gets pushed out. Boons need to be viewed as the issue on these classes and they need to look at it from the perspective of bringing that boon accessibility down.

    Now I am all for criticizing ANet for the slow cadence, and the patches not really having much of an impact in terms of balance, the thing is that any sort of change or rework to skills or traits needs to be forwarded to the skills team and unfortunately PvE is taken heavily into consideration for any of those kinds of changes. So for the most part its not entirely in CMCs hands, which is precisely why the passive traits haven't been reworked yet.

    This stuff is why they need to have those on the PvP balance team and the skills team, even the content teams, do a weekly devstream and have these kinds of Q&A/State of the Game type discussions. I highly doubt that they don't have something to talk about on a weekly basis, or at least an update to something. If weekly is too much bi-weekly at minimum.

    You know, the reason guardian has aegis+protection is because it doesn't have 19k base health and endure-pain, shield block, evades, etc etc right? You can't complain that a class that is specifically designed to be statistically weak, but instead relies on boons...... relies on boons. Similarly Ele and Engi are designed with boons in mind.

    The current issue with guardian/FB is symbols. Nobody likes them, either those playing with them or against them, and fortunately CMC appears to be aware of this issue. Guardian boon generation is actually pretty average compared to the likes of holo/scrapper, ranger/soulbeast, rev/herald. Go and see which one can maintain higher uptimes on protection, stability, vigor, or generate higher stacks of might. I dare you. Boons got hit very very hard in february, they really aren't the issue anymore. FB elite mantra provides 1s stability.... on 45s cooldown. Wauw such boon-vomit.

    As for warrior, it really would only take another shave to holo, a symbol rework, and a shave to rev evade/block-chaining, and it would be perfectly viable. I can totally see condi-zerker coming back and being a thing, especially now mallyx got trimmed.

    The issue is symbols because no one likes them? Every guard I knows has heard about cmc wanting to remove them and thinks that’s a terrible idea and no one I know complains about playing against symbol guards, in fact everyone I know thinks it’s balanced and somewhat interesting...

    wrong,
    guardian spamming aoe has always been problematic, just less so now as guardian is outshined by tempest.
    regardless how strong tempest is, i'm just glad that it pushed FB out of the meta

    Spamming aoe is not the same thing as symbols being faulty and for most of the time it was a support spec with the actual symbol firebrand being good but more of a 1v1 team fight hybrid meanwhile all the other guard symbol builds in the entire history of gw2 are mostly 1v1 builds and atm guardian is mostly a 1v1 spec like that. It has nothing to do with symbols and shows absolutely 0 problems with symbols themselves and like I said these specs are good at what they do, but aren’t really a problem balance wise

  • felix.2386felix.2386 Member ✭✭✭
    April 2021

    @Dantheman.3589 said:

    @felix.2386 said:

    @Dantheman.3589 said:

    @Ragnar.4257 said:

    @KryTiKaL.3125 said:

    @felix.2386 said:

    @KryTiKaL.3125 said:

    @Tycura.1982 said:
    Maybe after the xpac but until then I have zero confidence in their ability to recognize problems and deal with them competently. Expect meaningless buffs in the meantime.

    CMC already said in a stream with Teapot and Angeels, when asked "is there a build in PvP that you consider to be the power level that you'd like to see across the entire game?" and he said that "warrior isn't necessarily the gold standard but it feels pretty good." Which means, if anything, other classes need to be nerfed and Warrior really only needs adjustments (Buffs or Nerfs)

    We know that, warrior has been "feeling good" since 2012, warrior has never been underpowered, but either overpowered (quickly nerfed) or standard (underpowered but not buffing just nerfing everybody else)

    and we also know that, because they have been nerfing everything FOR 5 MONTHS already yet warrior is still trash..

    that's the point of the thread tbh, how long it takes for anet to nerf everything to warrior level standard, so that warrior can finally has a play with 5 months already passed.
    remember that FB still trashes warrior, yet this isnt even FB's meta yet..there's still many meta to come before finally reaching so called "warrior's standard"

    I understand the frustration, I'm right there with you, Warrior might "feel good" for the moment but that gets overrided by the overtuned things still going on right now with classes like FB and Holo and otherwise. I've said it before in other threads, its an issue of boon accessibility. Those classes, by comparison, projectile vomit boons onto themselves, and often others, and that is practically the entire reason why they are where they are. Warrior does not have that, neither do some other classes/specs, and because of that it gets pushed out. Boons need to be viewed as the issue on these classes and they need to look at it from the perspective of bringing that boon accessibility down.

    Now I am all for criticizing ANet for the slow cadence, and the patches not really having much of an impact in terms of balance, the thing is that any sort of change or rework to skills or traits needs to be forwarded to the skills team and unfortunately PvE is taken heavily into consideration for any of those kinds of changes. So for the most part its not entirely in CMCs hands, which is precisely why the passive traits haven't been reworked yet.

    This stuff is why they need to have those on the PvP balance team and the skills team, even the content teams, do a weekly devstream and have these kinds of Q&A/State of the Game type discussions. I highly doubt that they don't have something to talk about on a weekly basis, or at least an update to something. If weekly is too much bi-weekly at minimum.

    You know, the reason guardian has aegis+protection is because it doesn't have 19k base health and endure-pain, shield block, evades, etc etc right? You can't complain that a class that is specifically designed to be statistically weak, but instead relies on boons...... relies on boons. Similarly Ele and Engi are designed with boons in mind.

    The current issue with guardian/FB is symbols. Nobody likes them, either those playing with them or against them, and fortunately CMC appears to be aware of this issue. Guardian boon generation is actually pretty average compared to the likes of holo/scrapper, ranger/soulbeast, rev/herald. Go and see which one can maintain higher uptimes on protection, stability, vigor, or generate higher stacks of might. I dare you. Boons got hit very very hard in february, they really aren't the issue anymore. FB elite mantra provides 1s stability.... on 45s cooldown. Wauw such boon-vomit.

    As for warrior, it really would only take another shave to holo, a symbol rework, and a shave to rev evade/block-chaining, and it would be perfectly viable. I can totally see condi-zerker coming back and being a thing, especially now mallyx got trimmed.

    The issue is symbols because no one likes them? Every guard I knows has heard about cmc wanting to remove them and thinks that’s a terrible idea and no one I know complains about playing against symbol guards, in fact everyone I know thinks it’s balanced and somewhat interesting...

    wrong,
    guardian spamming aoe has always been problematic, just less so now as guardian is outshined by tempest.
    regardless how strong tempest is, i'm just glad that it pushed FB out of the meta

    Spamming aoe is not the same thing as symbols being faulty and for most of the time it was a support spec with the actual symbol firebrand being good but more of a 1v1 team fight hybrid meanwhile all the other guard symbol builds in the entire history of gw2 are mostly 1v1 builds and atm guardian is mostly a 1v1 spec like that. It has nothing to do with symbols and shows absolutely 0 problems with symbols themselves and like I said these specs are good at what they do, but aren’t really a problem balance wise

    nah, symbolbrand has always been toxic mechanic wise.

  • Dantheman.3589Dantheman.3589 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @felix.2386 said:

    @Dantheman.3589 said:

    @felix.2386 said:

    @Dantheman.3589 said:

    @Ragnar.4257 said:

    @KryTiKaL.3125 said:

    @felix.2386 said:

    @KryTiKaL.3125 said:

    @Tycura.1982 said:
    Maybe after the xpac but until then I have zero confidence in their ability to recognize problems and deal with them competently. Expect meaningless buffs in the meantime.

    CMC already said in a stream with Teapot and Angeels, when asked "is there a build in PvP that you consider to be the power level that you'd like to see across the entire game?" and he said that "warrior isn't necessarily the gold standard but it feels pretty good." Which means, if anything, other classes need to be nerfed and Warrior really only needs adjustments (Buffs or Nerfs)

    We know that, warrior has been "feeling good" since 2012, warrior has never been underpowered, but either overpowered (quickly nerfed) or standard (underpowered but not buffing just nerfing everybody else)

    and we also know that, because they have been nerfing everything FOR 5 MONTHS already yet warrior is still trash..

    that's the point of the thread tbh, how long it takes for anet to nerf everything to warrior level standard, so that warrior can finally has a play with 5 months already passed.
    remember that FB still trashes warrior, yet this isnt even FB's meta yet..there's still many meta to come before finally reaching so called "warrior's standard"

    I understand the frustration, I'm right there with you, Warrior might "feel good" for the moment but that gets overrided by the overtuned things still going on right now with classes like FB and Holo and otherwise. I've said it before in other threads, its an issue of boon accessibility. Those classes, by comparison, projectile vomit boons onto themselves, and often others, and that is practically the entire reason why they are where they are. Warrior does not have that, neither do some other classes/specs, and because of that it gets pushed out. Boons need to be viewed as the issue on these classes and they need to look at it from the perspective of bringing that boon accessibility down.

    Now I am all for criticizing ANet for the slow cadence, and the patches not really having much of an impact in terms of balance, the thing is that any sort of change or rework to skills or traits needs to be forwarded to the skills team and unfortunately PvE is taken heavily into consideration for any of those kinds of changes. So for the most part its not entirely in CMCs hands, which is precisely why the passive traits haven't been reworked yet.

    This stuff is why they need to have those on the PvP balance team and the skills team, even the content teams, do a weekly devstream and have these kinds of Q&A/State of the Game type discussions. I highly doubt that they don't have something to talk about on a weekly basis, or at least an update to something. If weekly is too much bi-weekly at minimum.

    You know, the reason guardian has aegis+protection is because it doesn't have 19k base health and endure-pain, shield block, evades, etc etc right? You can't complain that a class that is specifically designed to be statistically weak, but instead relies on boons...... relies on boons. Similarly Ele and Engi are designed with boons in mind.

    The current issue with guardian/FB is symbols. Nobody likes them, either those playing with them or against them, and fortunately CMC appears to be aware of this issue. Guardian boon generation is actually pretty average compared to the likes of holo/scrapper, ranger/soulbeast, rev/herald. Go and see which one can maintain higher uptimes on protection, stability, vigor, or generate higher stacks of might. I dare you. Boons got hit very very hard in february, they really aren't the issue anymore. FB elite mantra provides 1s stability.... on 45s cooldown. Wauw such boon-vomit.

    As for warrior, it really would only take another shave to holo, a symbol rework, and a shave to rev evade/block-chaining, and it would be perfectly viable. I can totally see condi-zerker coming back and being a thing, especially now mallyx got trimmed.

    The issue is symbols because no one likes them? Every guard I knows has heard about cmc wanting to remove them and thinks that’s a terrible idea and no one I know complains about playing against symbol guards, in fact everyone I know thinks it’s balanced and somewhat interesting...

    wrong,
    guardian spamming aoe has always been problematic, just less so now as guardian is outshined by tempest.
    regardless how strong tempest is, i'm just glad that it pushed FB out of the meta

    Spamming aoe is not the same thing as symbols being faulty and for most of the time it was a support spec with the actual symbol firebrand being good but more of a 1v1 team fight hybrid meanwhile all the other guard symbol builds in the entire history of gw2 are mostly 1v1 builds and atm guardian is mostly a 1v1 spec like that. It has nothing to do with symbols and shows absolutely 0 problems with symbols themselves and like I said these specs are good at what they do, but aren’t really a problem balance wise

    nah, symbolbrand has always been toxic mechanic wise.

    Well I see no proof of that at all. Firebrand was strong sure and now it’s not nearly as strong so players see more reason than ever to play core symbols or dh symbols and it’s good but not worth nerfing because it has natural weaknesses

  • felix.2386felix.2386 Member ✭✭✭
    edited July 31, 2020
    April 2021

    @Dantheman.3589 said:

    @felix.2386 said:

    @Dantheman.3589 said:

    @felix.2386 said:

    @Dantheman.3589 said:

    @Ragnar.4257 said:

    @KryTiKaL.3125 said:

    @felix.2386 said:

    @KryTiKaL.3125 said:

    @Tycura.1982 said:
    Maybe after the xpac but until then I have zero confidence in their ability to recognize problems and deal with them competently. Expect meaningless buffs in the meantime.

    CMC already said in a stream with Teapot and Angeels, when asked "is there a build in PvP that you consider to be the power level that you'd like to see across the entire game?" and he said that "warrior isn't necessarily the gold standard but it feels pretty good." Which means, if anything, other classes need to be nerfed and Warrior really only needs adjustments (Buffs or Nerfs)

    We know that, warrior has been "feeling good" since 2012, warrior has never been underpowered, but either overpowered (quickly nerfed) or standard (underpowered but not buffing just nerfing everybody else)

    and we also know that, because they have been nerfing everything FOR 5 MONTHS already yet warrior is still trash..

    that's the point of the thread tbh, how long it takes for anet to nerf everything to warrior level standard, so that warrior can finally has a play with 5 months already passed.
    remember that FB still trashes warrior, yet this isnt even FB's meta yet..there's still many meta to come before finally reaching so called "warrior's standard"

    I understand the frustration, I'm right there with you, Warrior might "feel good" for the moment but that gets overrided by the overtuned things still going on right now with classes like FB and Holo and otherwise. I've said it before in other threads, its an issue of boon accessibility. Those classes, by comparison, projectile vomit boons onto themselves, and often others, and that is practically the entire reason why they are where they are. Warrior does not have that, neither do some other classes/specs, and because of that it gets pushed out. Boons need to be viewed as the issue on these classes and they need to look at it from the perspective of bringing that boon accessibility down.

    Now I am all for criticizing ANet for the slow cadence, and the patches not really having much of an impact in terms of balance, the thing is that any sort of change or rework to skills or traits needs to be forwarded to the skills team and unfortunately PvE is taken heavily into consideration for any of those kinds of changes. So for the most part its not entirely in CMCs hands, which is precisely why the passive traits haven't been reworked yet.

    This stuff is why they need to have those on the PvP balance team and the skills team, even the content teams, do a weekly devstream and have these kinds of Q&A/State of the Game type discussions. I highly doubt that they don't have something to talk about on a weekly basis, or at least an update to something. If weekly is too much bi-weekly at minimum.

    You know, the reason guardian has aegis+protection is because it doesn't have 19k base health and endure-pain, shield block, evades, etc etc right? You can't complain that a class that is specifically designed to be statistically weak, but instead relies on boons...... relies on boons. Similarly Ele and Engi are designed with boons in mind.

    The current issue with guardian/FB is symbols. Nobody likes them, either those playing with them or against them, and fortunately CMC appears to be aware of this issue. Guardian boon generation is actually pretty average compared to the likes of holo/scrapper, ranger/soulbeast, rev/herald. Go and see which one can maintain higher uptimes on protection, stability, vigor, or generate higher stacks of might. I dare you. Boons got hit very very hard in february, they really aren't the issue anymore. FB elite mantra provides 1s stability.... on 45s cooldown. Wauw such boon-vomit.

    As for warrior, it really would only take another shave to holo, a symbol rework, and a shave to rev evade/block-chaining, and it would be perfectly viable. I can totally see condi-zerker coming back and being a thing, especially now mallyx got trimmed.

    The issue is symbols because no one likes them? Every guard I knows has heard about cmc wanting to remove them and thinks that’s a terrible idea and no one I know complains about playing against symbol guards, in fact everyone I know thinks it’s balanced and somewhat interesting...

    wrong,
    guardian spamming aoe has always been problematic, just less so now as guardian is outshined by tempest.
    regardless how strong tempest is, i'm just glad that it pushed FB out of the meta

    Spamming aoe is not the same thing as symbols being faulty and for most of the time it was a support spec with the actual symbol firebrand being good but more of a 1v1 team fight hybrid meanwhile all the other guard symbol builds in the entire history of gw2 are mostly 1v1 builds and atm guardian is mostly a 1v1 spec like that. It has nothing to do with symbols and shows absolutely 0 problems with symbols themselves and like I said these specs are good at what they do, but aren’t really a problem balance wise

    nah, symbolbrand has always been toxic mechanic wise.

    Well I see no proof of that at all. Firebrand was strong sure and now it’s not nearly as strong so players see more reason than ever to play core symbols or dh symbols and it’s good but not worth nerfing because it has natural weaknesses

    ok ok no need to talk it all loud, we know you like to spam AoEs. but it's toxic.
    i'm talking mechanic not how strong it currently is, but ok.

    there are literally thousands of threads talking about how AoE spamming is bad, go read some

  • Dantheman.3589Dantheman.3589 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @felix.2386 said:

    @Dantheman.3589 said:

    @felix.2386 said:

    @Dantheman.3589 said:

    @felix.2386 said:

    @Dantheman.3589 said:

    @Ragnar.4257 said:

    @KryTiKaL.3125 said:

    @felix.2386 said:

    @KryTiKaL.3125 said:

    @Tycura.1982 said:
    Maybe after the xpac but until then I have zero confidence in their ability to recognize problems and deal with them competently. Expect meaningless buffs in the meantime.

    CMC already said in a stream with Teapot and Angeels, when asked "is there a build in PvP that you consider to be the power level that you'd like to see across the entire game?" and he said that "warrior isn't necessarily the gold standard but it feels pretty good." Which means, if anything, other classes need to be nerfed and Warrior really only needs adjustments (Buffs or Nerfs)

    We know that, warrior has been "feeling good" since 2012, warrior has never been underpowered, but either overpowered (quickly nerfed) or standard (underpowered but not buffing just nerfing everybody else)

    and we also know that, because they have been nerfing everything FOR 5 MONTHS already yet warrior is still trash..

    that's the point of the thread tbh, how long it takes for anet to nerf everything to warrior level standard, so that warrior can finally has a play with 5 months already passed.
    remember that FB still trashes warrior, yet this isnt even FB's meta yet..there's still many meta to come before finally reaching so called "warrior's standard"

    I understand the frustration, I'm right there with you, Warrior might "feel good" for the moment but that gets overrided by the overtuned things still going on right now with classes like FB and Holo and otherwise. I've said it before in other threads, its an issue of boon accessibility. Those classes, by comparison, projectile vomit boons onto themselves, and often others, and that is practically the entire reason why they are where they are. Warrior does not have that, neither do some other classes/specs, and because of that it gets pushed out. Boons need to be viewed as the issue on these classes and they need to look at it from the perspective of bringing that boon accessibility down.

    Now I am all for criticizing ANet for the slow cadence, and the patches not really having much of an impact in terms of balance, the thing is that any sort of change or rework to skills or traits needs to be forwarded to the skills team and unfortunately PvE is taken heavily into consideration for any of those kinds of changes. So for the most part its not entirely in CMCs hands, which is precisely why the passive traits haven't been reworked yet.

    This stuff is why they need to have those on the PvP balance team and the skills team, even the content teams, do a weekly devstream and have these kinds of Q&A/State of the Game type discussions. I highly doubt that they don't have something to talk about on a weekly basis, or at least an update to something. If weekly is too much bi-weekly at minimum.

    You know, the reason guardian has aegis+protection is because it doesn't have 19k base health and endure-pain, shield block, evades, etc etc right? You can't complain that a class that is specifically designed to be statistically weak, but instead relies on boons...... relies on boons. Similarly Ele and Engi are designed with boons in mind.

    The current issue with guardian/FB is symbols. Nobody likes them, either those playing with them or against them, and fortunately CMC appears to be aware of this issue. Guardian boon generation is actually pretty average compared to the likes of holo/scrapper, ranger/soulbeast, rev/herald. Go and see which one can maintain higher uptimes on protection, stability, vigor, or generate higher stacks of might. I dare you. Boons got hit very very hard in february, they really aren't the issue anymore. FB elite mantra provides 1s stability.... on 45s cooldown. Wauw such boon-vomit.

    As for warrior, it really would only take another shave to holo, a symbol rework, and a shave to rev evade/block-chaining, and it would be perfectly viable. I can totally see condi-zerker coming back and being a thing, especially now mallyx got trimmed.

    The issue is symbols because no one likes them? Every guard I knows has heard about cmc wanting to remove them and thinks that’s a terrible idea and no one I know complains about playing against symbol guards, in fact everyone I know thinks it’s balanced and somewhat interesting...

    wrong,
    guardian spamming aoe has always been problematic, just less so now as guardian is outshined by tempest.
    regardless how strong tempest is, i'm just glad that it pushed FB out of the meta

    Spamming aoe is not the same thing as symbols being faulty and for most of the time it was a support spec with the actual symbol firebrand being good but more of a 1v1 team fight hybrid meanwhile all the other guard symbol builds in the entire history of gw2 are mostly 1v1 builds and atm guardian is mostly a 1v1 spec like that. It has nothing to do with symbols and shows absolutely 0 problems with symbols themselves and like I said these specs are good at what they do, but aren’t really a problem balance wise

    nah, symbolbrand has always been toxic mechanic wise.

    Well I see no proof of that at all. Firebrand was strong sure and now it’s not nearly as strong so players see more reason than ever to play core symbols or dh symbols and it’s good but not worth nerfing because it has natural weaknesses

    ok ok no need to talk it all loud, we know you like to spam AoEs. but it's toxic.
    i'm talking mechanic not how strong it currently is, but ok.

    there are literally thousands of threads talking about how AoE spamming is bad, go read some

    I main thief ranger and power reaper I don’t even play Aoe specs. I gave you a factual answer based off opinions of guard mains and many many interactions of them and other players including myself and 1v1 sessions and also what I see from pmuch every person that plays guard in ranked on NA in high mmr. If I was wrong there should be a reason and I don’t see any at all nor any very substantial thread on the subject that sways the opinions of many ppl

  • Fueki.4753Fueki.4753 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @felix.2386 said:
    symbolbrand has always been toxic mechanic wise.

    Don't you see the issue?
    Symbol Firebrand is the one people complain about.
    It's not Symbol Core Guardian or Symbol Dragon Hunter.

    Do you realize what that means? Firebrand is at fault, not Symbols.

  • Widmo.3186Widmo.3186 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Tomorrow :)

    Dont mind me, I just randomly spam 35 skill-buttons
    25.02.2020 edit - Nevermind, now I spam only 29 skill-buttons

  • felix.2386felix.2386 Member ✭✭✭
    edited August 1, 2020
    April 2021

    @Fueki.4753 said:

    @felix.2386 said:
    symbolbrand has always been toxic mechanic wise.

    Don't you see the issue?
    Symbol Firebrand is the one people complain about.
    It's not Symbol Core Guardian or Symbol Dragon Hunter.

    Do you realize what that means? Firebrand is at fault, not Symbols.

    symbol core guard is just as toxic, have you not played the side node symbol core guard build? it's braindead and will carry bad players, just it will never be meta because FB is better.

    and ofc, by AoE i don't literally just mean symbol, FB spam just as much AoE from tomes, that's why fb is worse, doesn't mean symbol is any better by it'self

  • KryTiKaL.3125KryTiKaL.3125 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @felix.2386 said:

    @Fueki.4753 said:

    @felix.2386 said:
    symbolbrand has always been toxic mechanic wise.

    Don't you see the issue?
    Symbol Firebrand is the one people complain about.
    It's not Symbol Core Guardian or Symbol Dragon Hunter.

    Do you realize what that means? Firebrand is at fault, not Symbols.

    symbol core guard is just as toxic, have you not played the side node symbol core guard build? it's braindead and will carry bad players, just it will never be meta because FB is better.

    and ofc, by AoE i don't literally just mean symbol, FB spam just as much AoE from tomes, that's why fb is worse, doesn't mean symbol is any better by it'self

    I would say at that point the additional AoE from Firebrand is what makes it so oppressive, as opposed to Symbols themselves being oppressive. Not to say that they aren't strong, but I don't think symbols are what makes Firebrand "too much", its more the combination of the symbols + other AoE.

  • Shiyo.3578Shiyo.3578 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited August 1, 2020

    @Fueki.4753 said:

    @felix.2386 said:
    symbolbrand has always been toxic mechanic wise.

    Don't you see the issue?
    Symbol Firebrand is the one people complain about.
    It's not Symbol Core Guardian or Symbol Dragon Hunter.

    Do you realize what that means? Firebrand is at fault, not Symbols.

    No symbols in general are an issue, axe symbol is just the most obnoxious one to deal with and FB only.

    Symbol builds are kind of why holo sidenoder is meta. Grenade pressure are one of the few ways that you can deal with it.

  • Dantheman.3589Dantheman.3589 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @felix.2386 said:

    @Fueki.4753 said:

    @felix.2386 said:
    symbolbrand has always been toxic mechanic wise.

    Don't you see the issue?
    Symbol Firebrand is the one people complain about.
    It's not Symbol Core Guardian or Symbol Dragon Hunter.

    Do you realize what that means? Firebrand is at fault, not Symbols.

    symbol core guard is just as toxic, have you not played the side node symbol core guard build? it's braindead and will carry bad players, just it will never be meta because FB is better.

    and ofc, by AoE i don't literally just mean symbol, FB spam just as much AoE from tomes, that's why fb is worse, doesn't mean symbol is any better by it'self

    The symbol core guard type of build isn’t really obnoxious imo. It’s just another counter play in the 1v1 realm. It can counter things weak to aoe like ranger and does it really well, but if the opponent doesn’t stand in your symbols then it becomes useless and like wise it’s also technically very squish outside of its symbols, so to actually play well you need to know kiting very well and how much dps is in the match up.
    I’ll agree it’s ez sure as you just lay symbols, but it’s one of those things-like say necromancer, where game knowledge is so incredibly important that the new player can be countered or out rotated by anyone with a brain. So it doesn’t really carry bad players just counter bad play while being fairly simple

  • Shiyo.3578Shiyo.3578 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Dantheman.3589 said:

    @felix.2386 said:

    @Fueki.4753 said:

    @felix.2386 said:
    symbolbrand has always been toxic mechanic wise.

    Don't you see the issue?
    Symbol Firebrand is the one people complain about.
    It's not Symbol Core Guardian or Symbol Dragon Hunter.

    Do you realize what that means? Firebrand is at fault, not Symbols.

    symbol core guard is just as toxic, have you not played the side node symbol core guard build? it's braindead and will carry bad players, just it will never be meta because FB is better.

    and ofc, by AoE i don't literally just mean symbol, FB spam just as much AoE from tomes, that's why fb is worse, doesn't mean symbol is any better by it'self

    The symbol core guard type of build isn’t really obnoxious imo. It’s just another counter play in the 1v1 realm. It can counter things weak to aoe like ranger and does it really well, but if the opponent doesn’t stand in your symbols then it becomes useless and like wise it’s also technically very squish outside of its symbols, so to actually play well you need to know kiting very well and how much dps is in the match up.
    I’ll agree it’s ez sure as you just lay symbols, but it’s one of those things-like say necromancer, where game knowledge is so incredibly important that the new player can be countered or out rotated by anyone with a brain. So it doesn’t really carry bad players just counter bad play while being fairly simple

    You can't contest the node, and killing at range for most builds takes so long you'll get +1ed and forced to run. It's incredibly powerful at holding nodes and winning games.