Do You Raid? - Page 4 — Guild Wars 2 Forums

Do You Raid?

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  • CptAurellian.9537CptAurellian.9537 Member ✭✭✭✭
    Yes, regularly.

    @DeWolfe.2174 said:
    a whole 28% Raid and Raid sometimes. GJ Dev's for putting some much into them and gating so many rewards behind something 72% of your customers do not participate in.

    In the time raiders got their five wings, the rest got 17 open world maps, four new fractals and a bunch of reworks, two addons worth of story etc., 7 living story episodes, more than a dozen weapon and armor sets and a bunch of other things I'm too lazy to think about. Yes, horribly imbalanced.

    Praise delta!

  • JVJD.4912JVJD.4912 Member ✭✭✭
    edited January 2, 2018
    No, not interested.

    Eek i voted wrong
    I did try to raid right at the beginning in Hot with my guild. We just lost interest, the bosses were easy and most of us weren't even bothered of meta.
    It obvious to us the fight weren't toughly tuned around 10 despite the asked number

    The legendary gear peaked my interest when they first announced then i actually saw the armor and was like mehhhhh. I liked the cloth but i don't main one.

  • Astralporing.1957Astralporing.1957 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited January 2, 2018
    Other (State your thought).

    @CptAurellian.9537 said:

    @STIHL.2489 said:
    I agree with you, it's a small sampling. But keep in mind, this is the community that raised a ruckus that the game needed "more challenge" so for me, to see that only 20% of this community do Raids regularly, really marginalizes the content.

    20% regular participation maginalises the content?

    Remember that LotRO quote from long ago? In a game where only 10% of the players even tried raiding, they still managed to be a majority on the forums. These proportions are not unusual at all in other games either - in games with raids/other hardcore content, people playing that content will always be heavily overrepresented in forums and other media.

    So, on a forum that's already skewed towards more hardcore/invested players, in a subforum which most of the non-raiding players do not even look into? Yes, 20% is a terrible result.

    Still, the numbers of votes are actually too low to treat this poll seriously. Especially considering when it was posted and how many active players weren't even paying attention to the forums at that time.

    The whole point of a social game is to play with the people you want to play with, not be forced to play with the people you don't.

  • CptAurellian.9537CptAurellian.9537 Member ✭✭✭✭
    Yes, regularly.

    @Astralporing.1957 said:
    Remember that LotRO quote from long ago? In a game where only 10% of the players even tried raiding, they still managed to be a majority on the forums. These proportions are not unusual at all in other games either - in games with raids/other hardcore content, people playing that content will always be heavily overrepresented in forums and other media.

    So, on a forum that's already skewed towards more hardcore/invested players, in a subforum which most of the non-raiding players do not even look into? Yes, 20% is a terrible result.

    Still, the numbers of votes are actually too low to treat this poll seriously. Especially considering when it was posted and how many active players weren't even paying attention to the forums at that time.

    That's old news and, of course, there's no reason to take this poll very seriously. Just like almost any other forum poll, by the way. When someone states that 20% participation (not just poll participation) is a poor result for niche content, that's hilarious.

    However, how do you get to the conclusion that "most of the non-raiding players do not even look into" the general forum? This post is not in the raids section. As for the forum-users vs. non-users thing, GW2 has substantial other (semi-)organised game areas and rather little focus on raids, so it is rather unlikely that raiders are massively over-represented here. A slight over-representation? Possible, only ANet knows. But the only reliable data we have also points in the direction of 10-20% halfway regular raiders.

    Among the forum population, I'd almost argue that this location skews the results against raids, as a good bunch of raiders will probably never look into the general forum, since there's little more than pointless whining around here with regard to raids.

    Praise delta!

  • maxwelgm.4315maxwelgm.4315 Member ✭✭✭
    No, no group don't want to pug.

    Raiding is the outdated mode elephant in the room. Regardless if you think this is a good thing or not, most players are not willing to spend time and effort into a game like they used to (at least not in the same grindy and organized way).

    First we had games with long sprawling worlds where you had to find your way carefully, read quest text in order to know where to go, and not go out of roads, no fast travel, etc. Then we slowly made our way up into travelling from A to B with a click and killing X mobs with X clicks for loot. Again, doesn't matter if you want to argue what kind of playstyle is better, raids do not fit the current overall playstyle of both single player games and MMOs.

    Of course, there are still people willing and wanting of modes that allow for them to dedicate and organize as a community in order to clear the content. But as with everything statistical, they're such a small group that they basically amount to "noise" and will slowly be parsed out. Even among modern raiders there are many who would rather have LFR and just be done with the group aspect. Not by coincidence the most popular games nowadays are MOBAs. There's always going to be the ones concerned about people's lack of commitment ("I have spent 2 weeks training VG and rehearsing with my guild mates, why don't you find a guild and spend some time training?"), and there's nothing wrong with that, but bear in mind it's something neither Anet is going to seriously demand of players, and neither will players listen to such rebuttals (many of them I'd say are probably fed up with this discourse from outside the game as well).

  • Torolan.5816Torolan.5816 Member ✭✭✭
    No, not interested.

    @Turin.6921 said:

    @STIHL.2489 said:
    They were loud enough to be listened to in favor of those that were against it.. so.. no matter what you may remember, they had the louder voice.

    Now, with that put out.. I stand and repeat what I said. even among the community that asked for it it's sad that less then half of them even tried.

    It was not that it was louder. It is just that most reasonable PvEers or PvPers that did not care about raids did not react at all since it is amazingly entitled and childish to object to sth that will affect nothing that has to do with your gaming habbits. If you do not care for them you can ignore them in-game and only takes a miniscule amount of personel to develop compared to the total number of Anet devs. Why would you object for something that does not affect you.

    The few people that were against it were just unreasonable. The only real objection was that raids would breed elitism. But that argument is self-defeating, as you are basically complaining about breeding elitism in a game mode that does not exist and you would not play anyway if it existed. So why would you care about it.

    My main concern at the time was not elitism, that some people who raid would be a piece of skritt was prety clear from the get go and easily observable in dungeons.

    It was that I thought and still think that it is an unfitting addition for GW2. It is the only game mode that forces you to come in a certain combination if you want to succeed and are not the Chuck Norris of gaming, and success means in this case all or nothing, there is no compensation for your time when you fail. I also means that you have to stay until the bitter end to earn something. Both but especially the first reason were unprecented in GW2 and in no way wanted by people like me. The bitter cherry on the cake was the legendary armor then, but luckily this matter has been solved.
    Sadly we did not scream loud enough on the matter and now were screwed.

    And yes, there was content where you had to stay until the bitter end to gain anything but from the top of my head I can only remember the champions of queens gauntlet.

  • Jahroots.6791Jahroots.6791 Member ✭✭✭
    No, tried it but didn't work out.

    I made a couple serious attempts at raiding before concluding that it just wasn't for me.

    The first guild was made of up people who were interested but lacked heart and were generally clueless, and it fell apart after about a week of wipes. Second guild was made up of experienced raiders who put time aside to train newcomers. We fared much better, but I simply couldn't adhere to a tight schedule and roster for training. I have had real life jobs with less structure. They were good folks but I wasn't enjoying it. Felt too much like work. They eventually kicked me after I hadn't signed in for a while. Also had a brief stint in a raid guild that was essentially an LFG, but with ranks assigned according to kill proof. It was okay but I was too burned out after the 2+ hour long wipefests that made up each training run, and I quit raiding after my first Cairn and MO kills. I have about 30 LI in the bank to show for my efforts.

    I might consider having a go at things again now that I've built a new gaming rig, and no longer have to contend with the lag and frame rate issues that hindered me in the past.

  • Astralporing.1957Astralporing.1957 Member ✭✭✭✭
    Other (State your thought).

    @CptAurellian.9537 said:
    However, how do you get to the conclusion that "most of the non-raiding players do not even look into" the general forum? This post is not in the raids section.

    Doh, for some reason i when i was writing i really thought this was posted in the dungeons subforum

    The whole point of a social game is to play with the people you want to play with, not be forced to play with the people you don't.

  • Cuddy.6247Cuddy.6247 Member ✭✭✭
    No, tried it but didn't work out.

    I raided when they first came out and stayed with it for a while. I returned for Bastion of the Penitent and worked very hard for Saul's staff because, well, Saul is my spirit character. If there was ever a better person in the Guild Wars lore I could relate to - I haven't found him. A disgraced drunkard and a thief that just wanted what was best for everybody in his life. I loved the exposition and the finale to his plot in BotP.

    Have yet to get into Hall of Chains. My old raid connections have disappeared since then. An ex-friend and I who don't get along for personal reasons. A guild that let me go because I was offline for like 6 months. Seems every year my life gets better but I become less and less able to do GW2's newest high-end content.

  • STIHL.2489STIHL.2489 Member ✭✭✭✭
    Other (State your thought).

    @Ashen.2907 said:

    @STIHL.2489 said:

    @Ashen.2907 said:

    @STIHL.2489 said:

    @IndigoSundown.5419 said:

    @STIHL.2489 said:
    What you seem to be deliberately ignoring is that the forum population was that vocal minority and even among them.. raids are a minority.

    Kinda sad. I really did expect higher numbers. I was kinda expecting around 50% to at least tried raids..

    Add, "Yes regularly." and "Yes, sometimes." 29%
    Now, add, "No, tried it but it didn't work out." and the total is 41% of survey takers who've at least tried raids.

    As to those who don't want to raid:

    39% "Not interested."

    It's not fair to assign, "No, no group and don't want to PuG." or, "Other." to either side. Too many questions are unanswered to determine whether they tried it or didn't, or would if something changed -- unless someone wants to read every post. Drop those numbers and you've got.

    Tried raids: 42 + 27 + 28 = 97; 97/188 = 51.5%
    Not interested: 91; 91/188 = 48.4%

    In this microcosm of a microcosm, the tried and not tried groups are similar. That's a far cry from your, "minority of a minority."

    You also seem to be presuming that a majority of forum regulars asked for raids. That's not how I remember it.

    They were loud enough to be listened to in favor of those that were against it.. so.. no matter what you may remember, they had the louder voice.

    Now, with that put out.. I stand and repeat what I said. even among the community that asked for it it's sad that less then half of them even tried.

    P.S. No.. the other groups matter, you don't get to delete peoples votes because they don't suit your agenda.

    As far as we know fully 100% of the people who asked for it have tried raids.

    I said community.. and this community.. the forum community.. asked for this.

    and.. given the ruckus that was raised for the need for challenging content.. I expected more.

    Pitiful really.

    A fraction of this community asked for raids.

    That's my whole point, and a lot smaller fraction then I expected given how vocal they were about it.

    There are two kinds of Gamers, Salty, and Extra Salty.
    Ego is the Anesthesia that dullens the pain of Stupidity.

  • TheGrimm.5624TheGrimm.5624 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Created multiple options to and get a finer level of detail and was curious from the sampling we could collect on the forums. Not trying to prove any points, just wanted to see how they are perceived. Do appreciate the insight from people and thanks for taking the time to vote.

    Envy the Madman his musing when Death comes to make fools of us all.
    De Mortuis Nil Nisi Bonum.
    TheGrimm PoTBS/GW1/WAR/Rift/GW2/MWO/ESO/WoT/WoW/D2/HoTS/Civ6/CU/AoC

  • xDudisx.5914xDudisx.5914 Member ✭✭✭

    The forums are not representative of the community. The forum user normally is more hardcore than average player. If the poll says 20% care about raids I would bet that the real numbers are about 5% or so.

  • Ashen.2907Ashen.2907 Member ✭✭✭✭
    Other (State your thought).

    @STIHL.2489 said:

    @Ashen.2907 said:

    @STIHL.2489 said:

    @Ashen.2907 said:

    @STIHL.2489 said:

    @IndigoSundown.5419 said:

    @STIHL.2489 said:
    What you seem to be deliberately ignoring is that the forum population was that vocal minority and even among them.. raids are a minority.

    Kinda sad. I really did expect higher numbers. I was kinda expecting around 50% to at least tried raids..

    Add, "Yes regularly." and "Yes, sometimes." 29%
    Now, add, "No, tried it but it didn't work out." and the total is 41% of survey takers who've at least tried raids.

    As to those who don't want to raid:

    39% "Not interested."

    It's not fair to assign, "No, no group and don't want to PuG." or, "Other." to either side. Too many questions are unanswered to determine whether they tried it or didn't, or would if something changed -- unless someone wants to read every post. Drop those numbers and you've got.

    Tried raids: 42 + 27 + 28 = 97; 97/188 = 51.5%
    Not interested: 91; 91/188 = 48.4%

    In this microcosm of a microcosm, the tried and not tried groups are similar. That's a far cry from your, "minority of a minority."

    You also seem to be presuming that a majority of forum regulars asked for raids. That's not how I remember it.

    They were loud enough to be listened to in favor of those that were against it.. so.. no matter what you may remember, they had the louder voice.

    Now, with that put out.. I stand and repeat what I said. even among the community that asked for it it's sad that less then half of them even tried.

    P.S. No.. the other groups matter, you don't get to delete peoples votes because they don't suit your agenda.

    As far as we know fully 100% of the people who asked for it have tried raids.

    I said community.. and this community.. the forum community.. asked for this.

    and.. given the ruckus that was raised for the need for challenging content.. I expected more.

    Pitiful really.

    A fraction of this community asked for raids.

    That's my whole point, and a lot smaller fraction then I expected given how vocal they were about it.

    A relatively small portion of tbe community asked for raids and a relatively small portiin say they participate in raids.

  • STIHL.2489STIHL.2489 Member ✭✭✭✭
    Other (State your thought).

    @Ashen.2907 said:

    @STIHL.2489 said:

    @Ashen.2907 said:

    @STIHL.2489 said:

    @Ashen.2907 said:

    @STIHL.2489 said:

    @IndigoSundown.5419 said:

    @STIHL.2489 said:
    What you seem to be deliberately ignoring is that the forum population was that vocal minority and even among them.. raids are a minority.

    Kinda sad. I really did expect higher numbers. I was kinda expecting around 50% to at least tried raids..

    Add, "Yes regularly." and "Yes, sometimes." 29%
    Now, add, "No, tried it but it didn't work out." and the total is 41% of survey takers who've at least tried raids.

    As to those who don't want to raid:

    39% "Not interested."

    It's not fair to assign, "No, no group and don't want to PuG." or, "Other." to either side. Too many questions are unanswered to determine whether they tried it or didn't, or would if something changed -- unless someone wants to read every post. Drop those numbers and you've got.

    Tried raids: 42 + 27 + 28 = 97; 97/188 = 51.5%
    Not interested: 91; 91/188 = 48.4%

    In this microcosm of a microcosm, the tried and not tried groups are similar. That's a far cry from your, "minority of a minority."

    You also seem to be presuming that a majority of forum regulars asked for raids. That's not how I remember it.

    They were loud enough to be listened to in favor of those that were against it.. so.. no matter what you may remember, they had the louder voice.

    Now, with that put out.. I stand and repeat what I said. even among the community that asked for it it's sad that less then half of them even tried.

    P.S. No.. the other groups matter, you don't get to delete peoples votes because they don't suit your agenda.

    As far as we know fully 100% of the people who asked for it have tried raids.

    I said community.. and this community.. the forum community.. asked for this.

    and.. given the ruckus that was raised for the need for challenging content.. I expected more.

    Pitiful really.

    A fraction of this community asked for raids.

    That's my whole point, and a lot smaller fraction then I expected given how vocal they were about it.

    A relatively small portion of tbe community asked for raids and a relatively small portiin say they participate in raids.

    You would never have thought that from the ruckus they rose. Enlightening how small the numbers rally are.

    There are two kinds of Gamers, Salty, and Extra Salty.
    Ego is the Anesthesia that dullens the pain of Stupidity.

  • Ithilwen.1529Ithilwen.1529 Member ✭✭✭✭
    No, tried it but didn't work out.

    The raiders in general seem way too difficult to deal with. Maybe in a couple of years things will calm down as they did with dungeons after the rewards were nerfed.

    Mesmerizing Girl

  • Ashen.2907Ashen.2907 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited January 3, 2018
    Other (State your thought).

    @STIHL.2489 said:

    @Ashen.2907 said:

    @STIHL.2489 said:

    @Ashen.2907 said:

    @STIHL.2489 said:

    @Ashen.2907 said:

    @STIHL.2489 said:

    @IndigoSundown.5419 said:

    @STIHL.2489 said:
    What you seem to be deliberately ignoring is that the forum population was that vocal minority and even among them.. raids are a minority.

    Kinda sad. I really did expect higher numbers. I was kinda expecting around 50% to at least tried raids..

    Add, "Yes regularly." and "Yes, sometimes." 29%
    Now, add, "No, tried it but it didn't work out." and the total is 41% of survey takers who've at least tried raids.

    As to those who don't want to raid:

    39% "Not interested."

    It's not fair to assign, "No, no group and don't want to PuG." or, "Other." to either side. Too many questions are unanswered to determine whether they tried it or didn't, or would if something changed -- unless someone wants to read every post. Drop those numbers and you've got.

    Tried raids: 42 + 27 + 28 = 97; 97/188 = 51.5%
    Not interested: 91; 91/188 = 48.4%

    In this microcosm of a microcosm, the tried and not tried groups are similar. That's a far cry from your, "minority of a minority."

    You also seem to be presuming that a majority of forum regulars asked for raids. That's not how I remember it.

    They were loud enough to be listened to in favor of those that were against it.. so.. no matter what you may remember, they had the louder voice.

    Now, with that put out.. I stand and repeat what I said. even among the community that asked for it it's sad that less then half of them even tried.

    P.S. No.. the other groups matter, you don't get to delete peoples votes because they don't suit your agenda.

    As far as we know fully 100% of the people who asked for it have tried raids.

    I said community.. and this community.. the forum community.. asked for this.

    and.. given the ruckus that was raised for the need for challenging content.. I expected more.

    Pitiful really.

    A fraction of this community asked for raids.

    That's my whole point, and a lot smaller fraction then I expected given how vocal they were about it.

    A relatively small portion of tbe community asked for raids and a relatively small portiin say they participate in raids.

    You would never have thought that from the ruckus they rose. Enlightening how small the numbers rally are.

    A (relatively) few people asked for raids. Repeatedly. I think that It was obvious that they did not represent some majority of the forum community. However, Anet stated before launch that they intended for the explorable dungeon paths to serve as this game's equivalent of raids. To be this game's hard, group oriented, instanced content. This did not work out so they made an effort to engage the community on these forums to discuss the topic. Based on Anet comments and the like I believe that raids were added, not because some small fraction of a fraction of the player base asked for them, but because they always intended for the game to have difficult instanced, team based content and the content they designed to fill that niche failed miserably.

    I really do wish that they had stuck to five character party size for raids. I think that it would make the organization of a party less time intensive...although it might make it more difficult to carry a less skilled or experienced player for training purposes.

  • No, no group don't want to pug.

    I accept that I don't have the time or skill. What burns me is that there isn't an option to play the raids on an easy setting with zero rewards so I can at least experience the story. I'm stuck reading a wiki for that :(

    The next time you get angry at someone try walking a mile in their shoes. After that, who cares! You're a mile away and you have their shoes! -Someone with more awesome quotes than me

  • STIHL.2489STIHL.2489 Member ✭✭✭✭
    Other (State your thought).

    @Ashen.2907 said:

    @STIHL.2489 said:

    @Ashen.2907 said:

    @STIHL.2489 said:

    @Ashen.2907 said:

    @STIHL.2489 said:

    @Ashen.2907 said:

    @STIHL.2489 said:

    @IndigoSundown.5419 said:

    @STIHL.2489 said:
    What you seem to be deliberately ignoring is that the forum population was that vocal minority and even among them.. raids are a minority.

    Kinda sad. I really did expect higher numbers. I was kinda expecting around 50% to at least tried raids..

    Add, "Yes regularly." and "Yes, sometimes." 29%
    Now, add, "No, tried it but it didn't work out." and the total is 41% of survey takers who've at least tried raids.

    As to those who don't want to raid:

    39% "Not interested."

    It's not fair to assign, "No, no group and don't want to PuG." or, "Other." to either side. Too many questions are unanswered to determine whether they tried it or didn't, or would if something changed -- unless someone wants to read every post. Drop those numbers and you've got.

    Tried raids: 42 + 27 + 28 = 97; 97/188 = 51.5%
    Not interested: 91; 91/188 = 48.4%

    In this microcosm of a microcosm, the tried and not tried groups are similar. That's a far cry from your, "minority of a minority."

    You also seem to be presuming that a majority of forum regulars asked for raids. That's not how I remember it.

    They were loud enough to be listened to in favor of those that were against it.. so.. no matter what you may remember, they had the louder voice.

    Now, with that put out.. I stand and repeat what I said. even among the community that asked for it it's sad that less then half of them even tried.

    P.S. No.. the other groups matter, you don't get to delete peoples votes because they don't suit your agenda.

    As far as we know fully 100% of the people who asked for it have tried raids.

    I said community.. and this community.. the forum community.. asked for this.

    and.. given the ruckus that was raised for the need for challenging content.. I expected more.

    Pitiful really.

    A fraction of this community asked for raids.

    That's my whole point, and a lot smaller fraction then I expected given how vocal they were about it.

    A relatively small portion of tbe community asked for raids and a relatively small portiin say they participate in raids.

    You would never have thought that from the ruckus they rose. Enlightening how small the numbers rally are.

    A (relatively) few people asked for raids. Repeatedly. I think that It was obvious that they did not represent some majority of the forum community. However, Anet stated before launch that they intended for the explorable dungeon paths to serve as this game's equivalent of raids. To be this game's hard instanced content. This did not work out so they made an effort to engage the community on these forums to discuss the topic. Based on Anet comments and the like I believe that raids were added, not because some small fraction of a fraction of the player base asked for them, but because they always intended for the game to have difficult instanced, team based content and the content they designed to fill that niche failed miserably.

    I really do wish that they had stuck to five character party size for raids. I think that it would make the organization of a party less time intensive...although it might make it more difficult to carry a less skilled or experienced player for training purposes.

    No.. they distinctly said "Because you asked for it" not "we planned this all along"

    There are two kinds of Gamers, Salty, and Extra Salty.
    Ego is the Anesthesia that dullens the pain of Stupidity.

  • Ashen.2907Ashen.2907 Member ✭✭✭✭
    Other (State your thought).

    @STIHL.2489 said:

    @Ashen.2907 said:

    @STIHL.2489 said:

    @Ashen.2907 said:

    @STIHL.2489 said:

    @Ashen.2907 said:

    @STIHL.2489 said:

    @Ashen.2907 said:

    @STIHL.2489 said:

    @IndigoSundown.5419 said:

    @STIHL.2489 said:
    What you seem to be deliberately ignoring is that the forum population was that vocal minority and even among them.. raids are a minority.

    Kinda sad. I really did expect higher numbers. I was kinda expecting around 50% to at least tried raids..

    Add, "Yes regularly." and "Yes, sometimes." 29%
    Now, add, "No, tried it but it didn't work out." and the total is 41% of survey takers who've at least tried raids.

    As to those who don't want to raid:

    39% "Not interested."

    It's not fair to assign, "No, no group and don't want to PuG." or, "Other." to either side. Too many questions are unanswered to determine whether they tried it or didn't, or would if something changed -- unless someone wants to read every post. Drop those numbers and you've got.

    Tried raids: 42 + 27 + 28 = 97; 97/188 = 51.5%
    Not interested: 91; 91/188 = 48.4%

    In this microcosm of a microcosm, the tried and not tried groups are similar. That's a far cry from your, "minority of a minority."

    You also seem to be presuming that a majority of forum regulars asked for raids. That's not how I remember it.

    They were loud enough to be listened to in favor of those that were against it.. so.. no matter what you may remember, they had the louder voice.

    Now, with that put out.. I stand and repeat what I said. even among the community that asked for it it's sad that less then half of them even tried.

    P.S. No.. the other groups matter, you don't get to delete peoples votes because they don't suit your agenda.

    As far as we know fully 100% of the people who asked for it have tried raids.

    I said community.. and this community.. the forum community.. asked for this.

    and.. given the ruckus that was raised for the need for challenging content.. I expected more.

    Pitiful really.

    A fraction of this community asked for raids.

    That's my whole point, and a lot smaller fraction then I expected given how vocal they were about it.

    A relatively small portion of tbe community asked for raids and a relatively small portiin say they participate in raids.

    You would never have thought that from the ruckus they rose. Enlightening how small the numbers rally are.

    A (relatively) few people asked for raids. Repeatedly. I think that It was obvious that they did not represent some majority of the forum community. However, Anet stated before launch that they intended for the explorable dungeon paths to serve as this game's equivalent of raids. To be this game's hard instanced content. This did not work out so they made an effort to engage the community on these forums to discuss the topic. Based on Anet comments and the like I believe that raids were added, not because some small fraction of a fraction of the player base asked for them, but because they always intended for the game to have difficult instanced, team based content and the content they designed to fill that niche failed miserably.

    I really do wish that they had stuck to five character party size for raids. I think that it would make the organization of a party less time intensive...although it might make it more difficult to carry a less skilled or experienced player for training purposes.

    No.. they distinctly said "Because you asked for it" not "we planned this all along"

    I will take your word for it on the, "because you asked for it," quote, but they said they intended GW 2 to have its own version of raids before the game launched.

  • STIHL.2489STIHL.2489 Member ✭✭✭✭
    Other (State your thought).

    @Ashen.2907 said:

    @STIHL.2489 said:

    @Ashen.2907 said:

    @STIHL.2489 said:

    @Ashen.2907 said:

    @STIHL.2489 said:

    @Ashen.2907 said:

    @STIHL.2489 said:

    @Ashen.2907 said:

    @STIHL.2489 said:

    @IndigoSundown.5419 said:

    @STIHL.2489 said:
    What you seem to be deliberately ignoring is that the forum population was that vocal minority and even among them.. raids are a minority.

    Kinda sad. I really did expect higher numbers. I was kinda expecting around 50% to at least tried raids..

    Add, "Yes regularly." and "Yes, sometimes." 29%
    Now, add, "No, tried it but it didn't work out." and the total is 41% of survey takers who've at least tried raids.

    As to those who don't want to raid:

    39% "Not interested."

    It's not fair to assign, "No, no group and don't want to PuG." or, "Other." to either side. Too many questions are unanswered to determine whether they tried it or didn't, or would if something changed -- unless someone wants to read every post. Drop those numbers and you've got.

    Tried raids: 42 + 27 + 28 = 97; 97/188 = 51.5%
    Not interested: 91; 91/188 = 48.4%

    In this microcosm of a microcosm, the tried and not tried groups are similar. That's a far cry from your, "minority of a minority."

    You also seem to be presuming that a majority of forum regulars asked for raids. That's not how I remember it.

    They were loud enough to be listened to in favor of those that were against it.. so.. no matter what you may remember, they had the louder voice.

    Now, with that put out.. I stand and repeat what I said. even among the community that asked for it it's sad that less then half of them even tried.

    P.S. No.. the other groups matter, you don't get to delete peoples votes because they don't suit your agenda.

    As far as we know fully 100% of the people who asked for it have tried raids.

    I said community.. and this community.. the forum community.. asked for this.

    and.. given the ruckus that was raised for the need for challenging content.. I expected more.

    Pitiful really.

    A fraction of this community asked for raids.

    That's my whole point, and a lot smaller fraction then I expected given how vocal they were about it.

    A relatively small portion of tbe community asked for raids and a relatively small portiin say they participate in raids.

    You would never have thought that from the ruckus they rose. Enlightening how small the numbers rally are.

    A (relatively) few people asked for raids. Repeatedly. I think that It was obvious that they did not represent some majority of the forum community. However, Anet stated before launch that they intended for the explorable dungeon paths to serve as this game's equivalent of raids. To be this game's hard instanced content. This did not work out so they made an effort to engage the community on these forums to discuss the topic. Based on Anet comments and the like I believe that raids were added, not because some small fraction of a fraction of the player base asked for them, but because they always intended for the game to have difficult instanced, team based content and the content they designed to fill that niche failed miserably.

    I really do wish that they had stuck to five character party size for raids. I think that it would make the organization of a party less time intensive...although it might make it more difficult to carry a less skilled or experienced player for training purposes.

    No.. they distinctly said "Because you asked for it" not "we planned this all along"

    I will take your word for it on the, "because you asked for it," quote, but they said they intended GW 2 to have its own version of raids before the game launched.

    No.. they said Dungeons were their Hard Content, not that the game would ever have raids.

    And never take someone's word for it.

    You asked for the ultimate challenging content in Guild Wars 2—challenges that would put your skills to the test and push you and your friends to the edge to achieve victory. Now the answer is here.

    There are two kinds of Gamers, Salty, and Extra Salty.
    Ego is the Anesthesia that dullens the pain of Stupidity.

  • No, tried it but didn't work out.

    Me and my small guild tried it. Our biggest problem was fielding 10 people. We got the Vale Guardian to about 50% life before he enraged. That was the third try. We have not tried to field 10 again. Our problem was numbers.

  • DeWolfe.2174DeWolfe.2174 Member ✭✭✭
    No, no group don't want to pug.

    @CptAurellian.9537 said:

    @DeWolfe.2174 said:
    a whole 28% Raid and Raid sometimes. GJ Dev's for putting some much into them and gating so many rewards behind something 72% of your customers do not participate in.

    In the time raiders got their five wings, the rest got 17 open world maps, four new fractals and a bunch of reworks, two addons worth of story etc., 7 living story episodes, more than a dozen weapon and armor sets and a bunch of other things I'm too lazy to think about. Yes, horribly imbalanced.

    And, as a WvW player.... what did we get??????????????

  • I dont understand how people are saying getting in to raiding is hard and getting gear is hard. GW2 is as casual as game can get, I have played 160 hours this game (never played gw2 before)and I got 2 characters geared with ascended (chrono, dh) and I have completed raidwings 1-3 so far (63li atm) and 100/99cm. People are blaming that they cant play 2 hours without being interrupted, well neither can I but it doesnt matter since raids are so easy that you can talk to the phone or with your gf/kids without getting killed. Ooh and it doesnt take even 2 hours, I mostly play 40 min-1h and complete one raidboss in that time.

  • Esquilax.3491Esquilax.3491 Member ✭✭✭
    No, tried it but didn't work out.

    I really wish we could get a dumbed down, scaled system of raids like Wow. Think fractals, you can easily scale rewards and make some exclusive to the high tier raiders.

    For the life of me, I can't understand why this isn't already a thing.

  • Jiza.4392Jiza.4392 Member
    edited January 3, 2018

    @Esquilax.3491 said:
    I really wish we could get a dumbed down, scaled system of raids like Wow. Think fractals, you can easily scale rewards and make some exclusive to the high tier raiders.

    For the life of me, I can't understand why this isn't already a thing.

    But But it doest even take one hour to complete one raid boss even without knowing the mechanics. Get into group + start watching YouTube guide for your boss, kill the boss and done. it took most of the times less than 45 mins. These raids allready are so dumbed down, its pretty much same as lfr in wow.

  • Esquilax.3491Esquilax.3491 Member ✭✭✭
    No, tried it but didn't work out.

    @Jiza.4392 said:

    @Esquilax.3491 said:
    I really wish we could get a dumbed down, scaled system of raids like Wow. Think fractals, you can easily scale rewards and make some exclusive to the high tier raiders.

    For the life of me, I can't understand why this isn't already a thing.

    But But it doest even take one hour to complete one raid boss even without knowing the mechanics. Get into group + start watching YouTube guide for your boss, kill the boss and done. it took most of the times less than 45 mins. These raids allready are so dumbed down, its pretty much same as lfr in wow.

    That's not the problem. The problem is accessibility. Most groups require some kind of proof or whatever that you are not new, which a lot of us are. I'm not dissing those groups, they just want a fast farm or whatever. The problem is a lot of these players voting NO are new, they have either no or very little experience, and It's difficult to find a "learner" group.

  • Jiza.4392Jiza.4392 Member
    edited January 3, 2018

    Well there are groups daily who are experienced and doesnt require anything as long as you have metabuilds + daily raidtrainings.I get your point, but its wierd since I didnt have any problem starting raids with training groups etc. Mby players are too sensitive that they cant hear realistic comments about their skill and knowledge. I mean ofc you have to be told that you cant do this and that etc. how else are you supposed to progress except telling bad players that they are playing bad and where they need to improve? Hell if I would kill and waste time from 9 other players becouse I waz playing like a kitten, I would hope they kick me cuz its completely deserved.

  • ProtoGunner.4953ProtoGunner.4953 Member ✭✭✭✭
    Yes, sometimes.

    Well, sometimes. But not lately. There is one missing options: No time or rather: the return of value is too little compared to the time you have to invest. And more so if you don't have invested your time and can't show your legendary insights you nearly have no chance to pug.
    But in the end there are so many other games and other content I want to see and I can do that solo. Raiding means commitment and a lot of waiting time without anything in return. Since I work 100% and have a lot of other things to do I see my free time better invested in faster 'gratifications'.

  • arenta.2953arenta.2953 Member ✭✭✭
    edited January 3, 2018
    Other (State your thought).

    do i raid....no

    i've always wanted to. but when they first came out people were so elitist about requirements to be accepted to their party. specific classes(some classes were not allowed), minimum armor requirements, specific builds etc.... and if you didn't use the specific class, with specific build, and specific armor rarity/type. then u would never get in.

    well i left the game for a while (unrelated reasons) and when i returned, i looked at raids and never felt compelled due to the memory of how strict people were before.

    sure, now i have full ascended armor, a legendary weapon, and lv 80 on most classes.....and commonly do lv 60-90 fractals
    but i just haven't felt like touching raiding because i'm still concerned about the attitude that community has. the attitude might have changed, i'm not sure...havent bothered to check. but the memory of how elitist it was prior, just destroyed any appeal raids had for me.

    and whenever i see threads on raids on reddit or on forums, it seems to always be complaints of "not worth the time", "required builds", or complaints of people.

    i remember when dungeons were hard as hell, we'd run them "underwear runs" because we'd die so much and just keep coming even after our armor had broken(first few months in game). that was hard, but never had the elitism that cast people out. people would accept they failed and try again and again. that community i liked.

  • Taygus.4571Taygus.4571 Member ✭✭✭✭
    No, not interested.

    @Jiza.4392 said:
    I dont understand how people are saying getting in to raiding is hard and getting gear is hard. GW2 is as casual as game can get, I have played 160 hours this game (never played gw2 before)and I got 2 characters geared with ascended (chrono, dh) and I have completed raidwings 1-3 so far (63li atm) and 100/99cm. People are blaming that they cant play 2 hours without being interrupted, well neither can I but it doesnt matter since raids are so easy that you can talk to the phone or with your gf/kids without getting killed. Ooh and it doesnt take even 2 hours, I mostly play 40 min-1h and complete one raidboss in that time.

    Do you Pug? I assume not.

    How long did it take the first time you raided?

    And they're "so easy" for you, evidently not so, for a large number of the player base. I find story bosses challenging. I suppose those are "easy" as well?

  • Mysticjedi.6053Mysticjedi.6053 Member ✭✭✭
    edited January 3, 2018
    Yes, sometimes.

    I have beaten all the the HOT raid bosses. Then I took a break. With POF raids, there are rarely groups in the lfg. Unfortunately, I feel raiding has become too niche with people too adamant the content is too hard to bring in pugs, it certainly is not. I earned legendary armor by being a pug and often did equal to or better than the group with mechanics and/or dps. The only thing raiding does require is time to learn mechanics. If you know your rotations ascended isn't even a must.

    Raids are a way for people to feel elite, and while there is nothing wrong with that the lack of lfg says that those who feel elite remain that way by closing themselves off from the rest of the community and becoming insular either in a 10 person group or raid guild. This is not healthy for those people, for growing the content, or the game. This is not an Anet problem this is a gw2 community created issue.

    While raids were meant to be difficult they are farmed just as easily as dungeons now. However, it does speed up the knowledge gain when lfg is ripe with groups like when the first 3 wings were released. People could see raids were not so difficult, just time consuming in either learning your role or the mechanics. Current lfg makes this much harder and infinitely more time consuming.

  • Loosmaster.8263Loosmaster.8263 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited January 3, 2018
    Other (State your thought).

    @DeWolfe.2174 said:

    @CptAurellian.9537 said:

    @DeWolfe.2174 said:
    a whole 28% Raid and Raid sometimes. GJ Dev's for putting some much into them and gating so many rewards behind something 72% of your customers do not participate in.

    In the time raiders got their five wings, the rest got 17 open world maps, four new fractals and a bunch of reworks, two addons worth of story etc., 7 living story episodes, more than a dozen weapon and armor sets and a bunch of other things I'm too lazy to think about. Yes, horribly imbalanced.

    And, as a WvW player.... what did we get??????????????

    You got sparkling new fireworks and supposedly a new way to locate the attackers and randomly disappearing structures!!!

    Playing the PvE scene because WvW is just "BAD"...

  • Astralporing.1957Astralporing.1957 Member ✭✭✭✭
    Other (State your thought).

    @Ashen.2907 said:
    I will take your word for it on the, "because you asked for it," quote, but they said they intended GW 2 to have its own version of raids before the game launched.

    No. They said that dungeons were their version of raids. In the same way they said that damage/control/support (often available all at once in a single build) was their version of holy trinity. And as the vertical "vanity progression" was the GW2 version of the horizontal gear grind.

    The whole point of a social game is to play with the people you want to play with, not be forced to play with the people you don't.

  • Other (State your thought).

    "Other" Seen far, far, FAR too many posts about the toxicity of having to be perfect, or otherwise 'git gud' before even getting into it. I'm a casual player who would love to delve into new content, but I want to only have fun, not work my kitten off for what little reward their may be. Did that with HoT masteries (LOL).

    C

  • Svarty.8019Svarty.8019 Member ✭✭✭✭
    No, not interested.

    We can only hope this poll informs some design decisions.

    Necro. Never knowingly blasting combo fields since 2012.

  • Aeolus.3615Aeolus.3615 Member ✭✭✭✭
    No, no group don't want to pug.

    @Svarty.8019 said:
    We can only hope this poll informs some design decisions.

    Pool was not made on reddit :dizzy: so probably wont.

  • FrostDraco.8306FrostDraco.8306 Member ✭✭✭
    Yes, regularly.

    @Astralporing.1957 said:

    @Ashen.2907 said:
    I will take your word for it on the, "because you asked for it," quote, but they said they intended GW 2 to have its own version of raids before the game launched.

    No. They said that dungeons were their version of raids. In the same way they said that damage/control/support (often available all at once in a single build) was their version of holy trinity. And as the vertical "vanity progression" was the GW2 version of the horizontal gear grind.

    Dungeons failed, so this point is moot.

  • FrostDraco.8306FrostDraco.8306 Member ✭✭✭
    edited January 4, 2018
    Yes, regularly.

    @Chamelion.9536 said:
    "Other" Seen far, far, FAR too many posts about the toxicity of having to be perfect, or otherwise 'git gud' before even getting into it. I'm a casual player who would love to delve into new content, but I want to only have fun, not work my kitten off for what little reward their may be. Did that with HoT masteries (LOL).

    C

    Implying HoT masteries were hard work. Delving is work.

    So when you say you 'would like to delve'. You are lying. Because if you wanted to delve into something you would put in the work to do so.

    If you are unwilling to work for something you want, then you never really wanted in the first place. You just say and 'think' you do.

  • Evolute.6239Evolute.6239 Member ✭✭✭
    Yes, sometimes.

    Legendary Heavy is one of my favourite skins in the game, so I'm just chugging along without a guild doing pug and random training discord clear runs for now. Just over 100 LI and almost 4 pieces done.

    Raids are as fun as you make them. They're not particularly hard, can be done rather quickly and smoothly with a good group, and can be very fun if done with friends who don't care about perfection and being anal, just that the run is smooth and you carry your weight.

  • Lunateric.3708Lunateric.3708 Member ✭✭✭✭
    Yes, regularly.

    @Svarty.8019 said:
    We can only hope this poll informs some design decisions.

    You do realize the developers for this game know exactly how many people raid, what bosses are killed and how many times and basically every bit of info you could get your hands on?

    And they still make raids, can you read between lines?

  • Evolute.6239Evolute.6239 Member ✭✭✭
    Yes, sometimes.

    @Morwath.9817 said:

    @Lunateric.3708 said:

    @Turin.6921 said:

    @STIHL.2489 said:
    They were loud enough to be listened to in favor of those that were against it.. so.. no matter what you may remember, they had the louder voice.

    Now, with that put out.. I stand and repeat what I said. even among the community that asked for it it's sad that less then half of them even tried.

    It was not that it was louder. It is just that most reasonable PvEers or PvPers that did not care about raids did not react at all since it is amazingly entitled and childish to object to sth that will affect nothing that has to do with your gaming habbits. If you do not care for them you can ignore them in-game and only takes a miniscule amount of personel to develop compared to the total number of Anet devs. Why would you object for something that does not affect you.

    The few people that were against it were just unreasonable. The only real objection was that raids would breed elitism. But that argument is self-defeating, as you are basically complaining about breeding elitism in a game mode that does not exist and you would not play anyway if it existed. So why would you care about it.

    Truth is people that complain as a whole do want something that is locked behind raids. An item, to experience it, legendary armor or the ring precursor, something. They are just rationalizing or at least trying to rationalize why they can't or won't raid.

    Ooo, nooo. If Quaggan would complain about raids, it would be because raid design is wasted resources, as those resources could go for sPvP, WvW or even better and more frequent Living Seasons.

    Foooo, considering the amount of raid releases and changes they have had, I'm not sure there are many resources used there in the first place.

  • Other (State your thought).

    I used to raid a lot, but then I became very busy IRL and could not do it as much as I would have liked to. Then my interest was further shunned when I saw that the legendary armor I was working towards was another God-kitten trench coat( I main a thief). I have not raided since then though I may try again someday because some of the skins that anet adds to raids are very hard to resist. glances at the Oblivion staff skin

    Do not rush,
    But move with a purpose.
    Dual- focus Martial arts elite spec please, Anet

  • Astralporing.1957Astralporing.1957 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited January 4, 2018
    Other (State your thought).

    @FrostDraco.8306 said:

    @Astralporing.1957 said:

    @Ashen.2907 said:
    I will take your word for it on the, "because you asked for it," quote, but they said they intended GW 2 to have its own version of raids before the game launched.

    No. They said that dungeons were their version of raids. In the same way they said that damage/control/support (often available all at once in a single build) was their version of holy trinity. And as the vertical "vanity progression" was the GW2 version of the horizontal gear grind.

    Dungeons failed, so this point is moot.

    They didn't fail. They were abandoned. Big difference.

    @Lunateric.3708 said:

    @Svarty.8019 said:
    We can only hope this poll informs some design decisions.

    You do realize the developers for this game know exactly how many people raid, what bosses are killed and how many times and basically every bit of info you could get your hands on?

    And they still make raids, can you read between lines?

    The ability of devs to ridiculously misread their own "metrics" is well known by now. Though i agree, this poll won't change anything.

    The whole point of a social game is to play with the people you want to play with, not be forced to play with the people you don't.

  • maxwelgm.4315maxwelgm.4315 Member ✭✭✭
    No, no group don't want to pug.

    @Lunateric.3708 said:

    @Svarty.8019 said:
    We can only hope this poll informs some design decisions.

    You do realize the developers for this game know exactly how many people raid, what bosses are killed and how many times and basically every bit of info you could get your hands on?

    And they still make raids, can you read between lines?

    They also have privileged information on WvW and look where it has gotten us. This means nothing, at best their overall info has been as good as these polls for what they're worth, and no blame on them either, people are hard as kitten to predict.

    @FrostDraco.8306 said:

    @Chamelion.9536 said:
    "Other" Seen far, far, FAR too many posts about the toxicity of having to be perfect, or otherwise 'git gud' before even getting into it. I'm a casual player who would love to delve into new content, but I want to only have fun, not work my kitten off for what little reward their may be. Did that with HoT masteries (LOL).

    C

    Implying HoT masteries were hard work. Delving is work.

    So when you say you 'would like to delve'. You are lying. Because if you wanted to delve into something you would put in the work to do so.

    If you are unwilling to work for something you want, then you never really wanted in the first place. You just say and 'think' you do.

    It is a good thing the devs do not think like that. "If you are unwilling to work then you never wanted the job anyway!" is the epitome of hindsight; neither you nor me, and specially not Anet, know what is going on through other people's heads and how they face their wants. There is hardly a single one reason for a problem as complex as people not achieving something they want, and lack of wanting is certainly very down there on the list, contrary to the motivational stuff always thrown about. Anet knows this and has made a very diverse game with a lot of different content, and that can actually be enjoyed by many kinds and levels of players. Even if they failed to do this with Raids, have done it right on fractals. Or is it not a failure because they did on purpose? Regardless, it has nothing to do with people not "truly" wanting to do the content and not "truly" wanting the rewards. That would be like saying "No I know how you feel better than you and you're not really feeling this".

  • Vulf.3098Vulf.3098 Member ✭✭✭
    Yes, regularly.

    @Astralporing.1957 said:
    They didn't fail. They were abandoned. Big difference.

    They kinda did because that mess was so poorly designed I don't blame them for abandoning the content. What most likely happened was the amount of resources needed to fix them was better spent making new content entirely.

  • IndigoSundown.5419IndigoSundown.5419 Member ✭✭✭✭
    No, not interested.

    @Astralporing.1957 said:

    @FrostDraco.8306 said:

    Dungeons failed, so this point is moot.

    They didn't fail. They were abandoned. Big difference.

    Dungeons may have succeeded as content for players who do not care as much about the whole hard-instanced-MMO-content construct. That was not the design intent, though. Dungeons lacked the need for coordination by skilled groups of players, which was the original intent. They were abandoned because they failed at their intended purpose, to be the game's equivalent of raids.

    Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it. -- Santayana

  • Taelac.7036Taelac.7036 Member ✭✭✭
    Other (State your thought).

    Not yet, but interested and hoping to find a good training group soon.

    Good luck, have fun.

  • Dahkeus.8243Dahkeus.8243 Member ✭✭✭
    Yes, sometimes.

    I used to raid regularly, but haven’t touched anything after Xera since I took a long break from the game. I’ll be going back in with a group tonight and may start raising at least weekly, but we’ll see.

    The fun of raids depends so much on the group you do them with.

    For a group to be fun they not only need to be somewhat competent, but also need to be good people that can handle difficulty without losing their cool. Competency can generally be taught and gained over time with experience, but emotional maturity isn’t something people generally either have or don’t.

  • STIHL.2489STIHL.2489 Member ✭✭✭✭
    Other (State your thought).

    @Lunateric.3708 said:

    @Svarty.8019 said:
    We can only hope this poll informs some design decisions.

    You do realize the developers for this game know exactly how many people raid, what bosses are killed and how many times and basically every bit of info you could get your hands on?

    And they still make raids, can you read between lines?

    I am sure they have the numbers.. but what they don't have is the "why".

    "Why do those people raid and these people don't?"

    And any developer that is not asking that question is not invested into their work.

    There are two kinds of Gamers, Salty, and Extra Salty.
    Ego is the Anesthesia that dullens the pain of Stupidity.

  • Astralporing.1957Astralporing.1957 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited January 4, 2018
    Other (State your thought).

    @IndigoSundown.5419 said:

    @Astralporing.1957 said:

    @FrostDraco.8306 said:

    Dungeons failed, so this point is moot.

    They didn't fail. They were abandoned. Big difference.

    Dungeons may have succeeded as content for players who do not care as much about the whole hard-instanced-MMO-content construct. That was not the design intent, though. Dungeons lacked the need for coordination by skilled groups of players, which was the original intent. They were abandoned because they failed at their intended purpose, to be the game's equivalent of raids.

    Care to support that with a source? Because the main reasons why they were abandoned that i saw all commented only on their messy code that just took too much of an effort to fix.
    Also, up until the very moment Anet decided to cut their lifeline, they were still extremely popular. Can't really call that a failure.
    (also, i have already commented on that "equivalent of raids" before - i'm pretty sure you are reading way too much in those statements than they meant)

    The whole point of a social game is to play with the people you want to play with, not be forced to play with the people you don't.

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