Solution to Expensive Rune destruction problem.

With the new update extracting Upgrades from gear is now only possible with Upgrade Extractors and Black Lion Salvage kits.Previously people could extract their upgrades using other salvage kits too, with the Mystic Salvage Kit, Master's Salvage Kit and Silver-Fed Salvage-o-Matic being best for the job if no Black Lion kit was available. They of course did have risk of destroying the rune but only 1 in 5 chance.Which makes it a huge problem on a long scale as extracting upgrades has now become a privilege, thus prices of all upgrades will go up a lot, most notably upgrades that are used most commonly. You can of course sell the item containing it instead, but some exotic weapons cannot be sold, also what are you suppose to do if you want the upgrade for yourself? Your only option will be buying gems or waiting until NRGesus graces you with a Black Lion Salvage Kit.

But you all know that already, so what is the solution??It's really quite simple: Keep the new "upgrade salvaging" function, however make it so that upgrades first have to be extracted before they can be salvaged.Meaning if you get runes/sigils you don't need after salvaging lots of fine and/or masterwork gear you have the option to salvage them now too.

To me that doesn't sound like a solution, but rather like a step back. When salvaging an inventory full of greens, I'll again clog up said inventory with useless minor runes and sigils, and have to click once more to salvage them (and possibly deal with "inventory full" during mass salvaging again due to unlucky combinations of salvaged material, luck, and rune/sigil).

Salvaging "the old way", then allowing to salvage runes/sigils afterwards is clumsy (compared to the new, more streamlined and less click-intensive way) and makes the new system (craft your own from lucent motes, symbols, and charms) needlessly complicated and obscure.

Then make it work the old way only for superior runes/sigils, and only for master/mystic/silver-fed or better kits. Or basically anything - just let players retain at least one reliable non-gemshop way of extracting enhancements.

@"Rasimir.6239" said:Salvaging "the old way", then allowing to salvage runes/sigils afterwards is clumsy (compared to the new, more streamlined and less click-intensive way) and makes the new system (craft your own from lucent motes, symbols, and charms) needlessly complicated and obscure.It's the new system that is needlessly complicated and obscure. Have a weapon with that sigil you wanted? To get it now you need to salvage that weapon (and many more), and use the obtained materials to craft the sigil you wanted. Or pay real cash.If that's not needlessly complicated, then i don't know what is.

@Astralporing.1957 said:

@"Rasimir.6239" said:Salvaging "the old way", then allowing to salvage runes/sigils afterwards is clumsy (compared to the new, more streamlined and less click-intensive way) and makes the new system (craft your own from lucent motes, symbols, and charms) needlessly complicated and obscure.It's the new system that is needlessly complicated and obscure. Have a weapon with that sigil you wanted? To get it now you need to salvage that weapon (and many more), and use the obtained materials to craft the sigil you wanted. Or pay real cash.If that's not needlessly complicated, then i don't know what is.Look at it the other way around: you want a specific sigil? Use your crafter to craft it from materials you've collected along the way. No need to wait for a weapon with just the sigil you want to drop, while throwing out tons of other weapons with useless sigils that you have to sell at vendor price.

Or you can go and buy the sigil itself from the trading post, just like you could before the update (and had to most of the time, as getting just the sigil you want to drop at a specific time was/is next to impossible).

@Rasimir.6239 said:

@Astralporing.1957 said:

@Rasimir.6239 said:Salvaging "the old way", then allowing to salvage runes/sigils afterwards is clumsy (compared to the new, more streamlined and less click-intensive way) and makes the new system (craft your own from lucent motes, symbols, and charms) needlessly complicated and obscure.It's the new system that is needlessly complicated and obscure. Have a weapon with that sigil you wanted? To get it now you need to salvage that weapon (and many more), and use the obtained materials to craft the sigil you wanted. Or pay real cash.If that's not needlessly complicated, then i don't know what is.Look at it the other way around: you want a specific sigil? Use your crafter to craft it from materials you've collected along the way. No need to wait for a weapon with just the sigil you want to drop, while throwing out tons of other weapons with useless sigils that you have to sell at vendor price.

Notice, how rune/sigil salvaging and crafting is not inherently incompatible with being able to extract upgrades from gear. The latter is just Anet wanting to promote gemshop stuff, nothing more.

With precursors, the old system was able to seamlessly and painlessly integrate with the new one. With runes it could have been so. But pushing players into paying for QoL they once had for free was apparently more important.

Today is patch day, I really hope they will delete that option from salvaging (all inclusive) and leave old way and new way of salvaging runes and sigils

Personally, I couldn't imagine using a less-than-100% salvage kit to remove an upgrade I actually want.

I agree with op. It would be nice to be able to get the (at least superior) runes from gears with yellow and equivalent salvage tools. In many cases this already means you need rng/meta event or dungeon tokens to get the item in first place. This won't clutter backpack much either. Many of us already salvage exotics seperately instead of in 1 go. This leaves the issue for normal crafting (as here you need lower runes to discover recipes) tho. Still havent seen a single symbol drop. I also feel most gears no longer contain runes in first place. Exotics included. Or were meta event exotics from HoT always runeless? Next to that, how can f2p now get runes? They can't get gems so no rxtractors and bl salvage tool. They can't buy superior runes I guess as its exotic. Maybe they can buy the symbols but they aren't in sales plenty or cheap enough. You need symbols to buy the recipe and then on top you need a new bulk to actually craft them.

I still like old system better. Keep the craft. Keep the get all runes. They fill your bp, you can insta salvage them again in 1 go with your tool (with keeping exotics seperated just like normal salvaging goes).

There is no solution for that. Anet did it on purpose. They want runes and sigils cost lost of gold.

@Timo.1065 said:There is no solution for that. Anet did it on purpose. They want runes and sigils cost lost of gold.Correction - they want extractors and black lion kits to increase in value.

@phs.6089 said:Today is patch day, I really hope they will delete that option from salvaging (all inclusive) and leave old way and new way of salvaging runes and sigils

Today won't be a patch. Patchday is every two weeks, we had the patch last week. Infact the hotfix window is also closed so we probably won't see any changes until next week.

This is a classic case of 'Be careful what you wish for, ArenaNet may grant it'.They wanted to revitalize the crafting system and solve the complain about runes. It basically resolves the complains about minor runes cluttering the inventory and price of Sigils of Nullification and Winter's Presence. But it came with the cost that you have to craft all sigils and runes now.

I was happy about the new system, until I realized this. Honestly, I'm a bit disappointed with it now. I'm pretty sure most people were only asking for the ability to salvage runes, NOT automatically salvage them with gear. Should have kept it the way it was, but then had the opportunity to salvage or not salvage the runes separately.

Topics like this are making me realise I must be far less organised than most people. I keep non-salvagable exotics with selectable stats and ascended pieces with stats I think might be useful, just in case a character I'm levelling up can use them, but it's never occurred to me to keep sigils or runes because I might want them later, I always sold them on the TP or to a merchant and then bought/crafted the ones I wanted. So for me this system hasn't changed anything, except that there's more sigils and runes I can craft instead of buying from the TP. It's come as a bit of a surprise to me to learn that several people would collect upgrades in advance.

I'm still not convinced it's a big change however. Popular runes and sigils were always (relatively) expensive, some of them worth over 1g if I remember correctly. It was mainly the minor ones which were worthless, and I imagine even if we had the option to keep them the majority of those would be salvaged.

I'm not opposed to having the option to keeps sigils and runes from loot, but I can't imagine it would change anything for me.

@Aaralyna.3104 said:I agree with op. It would be nice to be able to get the (at least superior) runes from gears with yellow and equivalent salvage tools. In many cases this already means you need rng/meta event or dungeon tokens to get the item in first place. This won't clutter backpack much either. Many of us already salvage exotics seperately instead of in 1 go. This leaves the issue for normal crafting (as here you need lower runes to discover recipes) tho. Still havent seen a single symbol drop. I also feel most gears no longer contain runes in first place. Exotics included. Or were meta event exotics from HoT always runeless? Next to that, how can f2p now get runes? They can't get gems so no rxtractors and bl salvage tool. They can't buy superior runes I guess as its exotic. Maybe they can buy the symbols but they aren't in sales plenty or cheap enough. You need symbols to buy the recipe and then on top you need a new bulk to actually craft them.

I still like old system better. Keep the craft. Keep the get all runes. They fill your bp, you can insta salvage them again in 1 go with your tool (with keeping exotics seperated just like normal salvaging goes).

Free players can buy gems with real money, they just can't get them with gold. They'll be able to craft sigils and runes just like anyone else can, and might be able to buy them. I haven't checked, but if I remember correctly the list of items free players can buy is manually created and maintained, it's not simply that anything exotic is locked out and anything common is allowed.

Although I tend to think of free accounts as basically a trial or demo version without a time limit and I'm inclined to say that if you've gotten to the point where you need to make sure you've got exactly the right runes and sigils for your build then you're probably committed enough to the game that it would be worth buying it.

Imagine, just imagine, that by accident you put your sigil/rune on the wrong item...But my biggest problem with the new system remains the insane slow down when using the "salvage all" option. This kind of slowdown is unacceptable. Wasn't this change supposed to speed up things? Because it seems like it doesn't.

@Rikimaru.7890 said:With the new update extracting Upgrades from gear is now only possible with Upgrade Extractors and Black Lion Salvage kits.Previously people could extract their upgrades using other salvage kits too, with the Mystic Salvage Kit, Master's Salvage Kit and Silver-Fed Salvage-o-Matic being best for the job if no Black Lion kit was available. They of course did have risk of destroying the rune but only 1 in 5 chance.

I don't know either why that had to be changed. I mean, I do know: more dough to be made.

Anyway, I am super glad I got an Endless Upgrade Extractor just a few weeks prior to the update. Those have certainly become more expensive now.

@Miellyn.6847 said:

@phs.6089 said:Today is patch day, I really hope they will delete that option from salvaging (all inclusive) and leave old way and new way of salvaging runes and sigils

How does it fix sigils of null or winters presence though.. its still reliant on lucky salvages to obtain the relevant symbols/charms etc instead of a lucky toilet flush previously.. good luck re-gearing any toons affected by changes and balances, unless your still prepared to wait long enough to get the necessary parts to craft them or buy the items off the TP at new higher prices, not to dissimilar to the nullification and mischief prices previous and I don't expect that to change anytime soon even though its only been a week.To get a single symbol of control it now takes an absurd amounts of salvages to get just 1.. good luck getting enough for the recipe then more to craft each sigil. All they have done is switched the starved supply of sigils to a similar issue with the symbols in order to push the intent to buy gems for gold conversion in order to use the TP inflated prices and/or push to buy gems for salvage kits and extractors. They couldn't even be bothered to change the salvage kit wording or make the costs proportional in comparison to statuettes... ya know buy 3 extractors now for 250 gems (bargain.. not) or burn 3 black lion chests worth of statuettes to buy a single extractor from the vendor.. it just stinks of a rushed through alternative once the nullification issue hit gems sales earlier than planned and they needed something to spike it.The desperate debacle of the KFT promotion (which was strange in itself), followed by the intentional lack of info surrounding the new armor and now the push to fix something that was never broken in order to gain a microtransaction foothold at the ground level of the game just leaves some big question marks hanging over the intent of all this for me.Then again I took the decision to curb spending on GW2 after being made to feel second class during the KFT joke, the armor debacle and now this has only served to strengthen that decision. I will still convert gold every now and then but no more credit car flashing for me I'm afraid.

@Danikat.8537 said:Free players can buy gems with real money, they just can't get them with gold.

This doesn't really mean free to play. Previously they could get all runes easily from drops to gear up and join all content in game (expac maps exc, raids excl), but without runes in their gears (ok we still have orr karma gear (if that still comes with runes in them). But if this group can't get runes it would place a gap between players.

I don’t like your solution. It’s stepping backwards. I shouldn’t have to pay twice to salvage something because other players would rather pick and choose their salvage loot.

Not that I think any post will change the system we have now, but if it were to change, you should have the option to click a salvage kit, and select “Recover Rune/Sigil - % chance, item will be destroyed” (based on the rarity of the kit) problem actually solved. The trade off would be not having other materials from the salvage.

@Aaralyna.3104 said:

@Danikat.8537 said:Free players can buy gems with real money, they just can't get them with gold.

Yes, that's where the rest of my paragraph comes in:

@Danikat.8537 said:Free players can buy gems with real money, they just can't get them with gold. They'll be able to craft sigils and runes just like anyone else can, and might be able to buy them. I haven't checked, but if I remember correctly the list of items free players can buy is manually created and maintained, it's not simply that anything exotic is locked out and anything common is allowed.

IMO what they should have done is make the automatic pass-through salvaging a function only of the salvage-o-matics. It's a convenience feature and those who want it can pay the gems to obtain one. The regular salvage kits should retain their original function.

@Rasimir.6239 said:Look at it the other way around: you want a specific sigil? Use your crafter to craft it from materials you've collected along the way. No need to wait for a weapon with just the sigil you want to drop, while throwing out tons of other weapons with useless sigils that you have to sell at vendor price.

Or you can go and buy the sigil itself from the trading post, just like you could before the update (and had to most of the time, as getting just the sigil you want to drop at a specific time was/is next to impossible).

collected along the way? lol have you been paying attention to the drop rates of symbols/charms? its very possible that the price of those wont drop by much, meaning a lot of the best upgrades are going to cost at least a couple gold to craft. before the update they were a couple silver. also many upgrades are no longer vendor trash and are quite valuable. many upgrades will continue to rise in price and even test builds are going to be a gold sink.

@Danikat.8537 said:Topics like this are making me realise I must be far less organised than most people. I keep non-salvagable exotics with selectable stats and ascended pieces with stats I think might be useful, just in case a character I'm levelling up can use them, but it's never occurred to me to keep sigils or runes because I might want them later, I always sold them on the TP or to a merchant and then bought/crafted the ones I wanted. So for me this system hasn't changed anything, except that there's more sigils and runes I can craft instead of buying from the TP. It's come as a bit of a surprise to me to learn that several people would collect upgrades in advance.

I'm still not convinced it's a big change however. Popular runes and sigils were always (relatively) expensive, some of them worth over 1g if I remember correctly. It was mainly the minor ones which were worthless, and I imagine even if we had the option to keep them the majority of those would be salvaged.

I'm not opposed to having the option to keeps sigils and runes from loot, but I can't imagine it would change anything for me.

Probably because you're not constantly destroying weapons/armor. Honestly, how often do people change builds? lol. In my case, I usually only hit the BL kit when I'm upgrading exotic to ascended but the rune is but a puny part of the cost anyways.

And now that most of my gear is ascended, any runes I put in will be lost anyways. It's hardly a big deal.

Also, is it just me, or are sigils getting cheaper?

@ArchonWing.9480 said:

Also, is it just me, or are sigils getting cheaper?

(Quickly looks up a bunch of minor sigils that used to be 19 copper, sees they are all 2-4 silver now)

It's just you.

Most people don't even want the trash runes and sigils so this is not an issue or way to cash in on money. For the one upgrade every month that you want you can use a black lion one :) Then have 24 charges left until next year when the next one drops that you actually care about.

I'll keep saying it.

@Leablo.2651 said:IMO what they should have done is make the automatic pass-through salvaging a function only of the salvage-o-matics. It's a convenience feature and those who want it can pay the gems to obtain one. The regular salvage kits should retain their original function.

I like that idea.