Gibson.4036 Posted August 30, 2021 Share Posted August 30, 2021 I recently achieved Dive Master. I wish I had counted how many times I died for the Not So Secret diving goggles. I say this, so you know I am not a disgruntled player asking you to make something easier so I can get it. I've got it now, and would like to make a suggestion for all the players who have yet to get it. Please separate the Not So Secret Dive out of Dive Master. The other 37 diving goggles around the world are a joyous little bit of the game. It's fun to discover while you are out and about. It evokes the joy of cannonballs into the pool in summer, or the thrill of jumping off the rocks at the local lake. The Not So Secret Dive, however, is a blind dive off a high platform into a mountainside through projecting pipes and other floating platforms into a narrow, stone-walled well. It evokes the questionable pleasures of a certain 18th century Marquis named Donatien Alphonse Francois. It's possible that some very much enjoy completing a very tricky JP and then flinging themselves blindly to their deaths over and over until they thread a narrow needle of doom. That's why I won't suggest altering the Not So Secret JP or Dive in any way. Save it for the masochists and blindly driven among us. Only, would you please separate it out of Dive Master, and make it into its own, glorious, unique achievement, perhaps with its own mastery point for the effort(?) that goes into it. Aesthetically, it just makes sense. As it currently stands, the achievement feels like that occasional design mistake where a wonderful game suddenly, wildly spikes difficulty on the very last boss. In effect, it invalidates all that went before, in this case making the entire Dive Master achievement really the Not So Secret Dive achievement with a little preamble of the other 37 diving goggles. Please make it its own achievement, and give the rest of the dive journey room to be itself. 14 8 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Randin.5701 Posted August 30, 2021 Share Posted August 30, 2021 If you have a skyscale, there is actually a way to skip the jumping puzzle. If you check around on Youtube, you should be able to find a video explaining it. Makes the process less infuriating. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ASP.8093 Posted August 30, 2021 Share Posted August 30, 2021 Can you Position Rewinder it? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mtpelion.4562 Posted August 30, 2021 Share Posted August 30, 2021 My sister and I pulled this one off via the use of Teleport to Friend. We'd take turns diving and teleporting back to the other one until we both managed to finagle our way down through the insta-death junk poking out everywhere. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khisanth.2948 Posted August 30, 2021 Share Posted August 30, 2021 14 minutes ago, ASP.8093 said: Can you Position Rewinder it? Mostly no, you either got the dive or you are dead There is also the buggy situation where you land in the pool but didn't get credit like I had and in that case the rewinder would help 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
costepj.5120 Posted August 30, 2021 Share Posted August 30, 2021 The dive is actually very easy when you know how. After I died on my first attempt, a kind player showed me exactly where to exit the platform. If I recall correctly, it involved lining up on a particular feature and stepping backwards. Then it was straight down; no need to manoeuvre to avoid obstacles. 7 1 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gibson.4036 Posted August 30, 2021 Author Share Posted August 30, 2021 (edited) Thanks for the input everyone. I know people sometimes do Mesmer portal chains up to the dive so people can repeatedly try. I also came across videos with the precision dodge backwards from a certain point to get the dive. I don't know about a skyscale workaround, but I am aware that there is a griffon from captain's airship workaround that lets you keep diving without doing the entire JP. Which is all to say, I'm totally okay with the JP and the dive remaining as is in difficulty and frustration for players and pure schadenfreude for some cheeky ANet designer. My only request is that this devilish dive be given it's own home in the achievements, allowing Dive Master to keep the joyful exploration vibe that marks 97% of its current state. In the Dive Master achievement, the Not So Secret Dive stands out like a chain-smoking, punk-rock teen who likes to kick puppies attending a six-year-old's summer birthday party. They're both awesome in their own way. They just don't belong together. Edited November 4, 2021 by Gibson.4036 5 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seera.5916 Posted August 30, 2021 Share Posted August 30, 2021 Maybe split it such that there's an expert dive master if they don't want to completely remove it. Then put this and any other hard dives into it. 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FortnitemareCourt.8354 Posted August 30, 2021 Share Posted August 30, 2021 While I somehow managed through sheer dumb luck to get this dive on the first try, I'd totally support moving this out to a separate achievement so more people can finish dive master. I can't think of any others on that list that require fully completing a jumping puzzle to get to the goggles. I know there's one (maybe more?) in the Hidden Garden JP area, but that's not reliant on glitchy tossing & bouncing mechanisms to get up to. 4 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gibson.4036 Posted August 30, 2021 Author Share Posted August 30, 2021 (edited) On 8/30/2021 at 2:34 PM, khani.4786 said: While I somehow managed through sheer dumb luck to get this dive on the first try, I'd totally support moving this out to a separate achievement so more people can finish dive master. I can't think of any others on that list that require fully completing a jumping puzzle to get to the goggles. I know there's one (maybe more?) in the Hidden Garden JP area, but that's not reliant on glitchy tossing & bouncing mechanisms to get up to. Hidden Garden has one of the dives, yes, but you don't have to complete it. It's on top of the tree in the middle and you only have to get up to the location of one of the three keys. There are a couple of Orr jumping puzzles to do for the goggles. As you say, they are pretty straightforward, relatively short jumping puzzles that don't require standing on spinning gears and timing steam eruptions under platforms. None of them also require you to jump blind into a narrow shoot filled with sticking out pipes and floating platforms. Like most of the dives, they are off ledges into significant bodies of water you can see from the ledge. The rest of the dives can stay "Master Diver". Maybe the Not so Secret Dive Achievement can be "Masochistic Diver". Or "Every Pipe on the Way Down". Or "Why Does ArenaNet Hate Me?" 😄 Edited November 2, 2021 by Gibson.4036 1 12 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gibson.4036 Posted August 30, 2021 Author Share Posted August 30, 2021 (edited) 44 minutes ago, Seera.5916 said: Maybe split it such that there's an expert dive master if they don't want to completely remove it. Then put this and any other hard dives into it. Great idea! Not So Secret Dive could be joined with a couple more absurd blind dives into spiky wells in Cantha. We can call the achievement, "Sheer Dumb Luck". Edited August 30, 2021 by Gibson.4036 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flasterko.4087 Posted November 1, 2021 Share Posted November 1, 2021 I completely agree. I tried it again this evening and only got frustrated. After all this searching for places for diving this is just too much. 2 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarcShriek.5829 Posted November 1, 2021 Share Posted November 1, 2021 How can one be a dive master without mastering all the dives? 3 1 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gibson.4036 Posted November 2, 2021 Author Share Posted November 2, 2021 (edited) 1 hour ago, DarcShriek.5829 said: How can one be a dive master without mastering all the dives? By doing all dives except one that is so completely different it warrants its own special achievement. Were you paying attention? Maybe you’ll be surprised to know that there are 45 dive locations, but the Dive Master achievement only requires 38 of them. Edited November 2, 2021 by Gibson.4036 1 2 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vayne.8563 Posted November 2, 2021 Share Posted November 2, 2021 For those having trouble with that dive, watch a couple of videos. There are vidoes that show you exactly what you need to do to complete the dive. It's not that hard once you know how to do it. Trying to just wing it won't work very well. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick Malone.5641 Posted November 2, 2021 Share Posted November 2, 2021 I'm of 2 minds on this idea. On one hand, I feel this change lessens the accomplishments of all the players who have completed the Dive Master as it currently is by giving all future players an easier time getting the same reward. I earned Dive Master the hard way, why should anyone else get it with less effort? Further, a lot of players have managed to get the achievement, so it falls in the "challenging but not unreasonably hard" category. On the other hand, this is a hard dive to get. I hated doing it, it took me quite a few tries (thank you kind mesmers!) I wouldn't mind getting an extra achievement reward for having completed it, as long as I don't have to do it AGAIN! 1 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Handsel.2891 Posted November 2, 2021 Share Posted November 2, 2021 5 hours ago, Gibson.4036 said: By doing all dives except one that is so completely different it warrants its own special achievement. Were you paying attention? Maybe you’ll be surprised to know that there are 45 dive locations, but the Dive Master achievement only requires 38 of them. The 38 required diving goggles are all located on the core maps, i.e. the ones required for world completion, i.e. the ones present in the game at launch, August 2012. The one pair that is the focus of this thread was added during Living World Season 1, but to a core map, so they included it in the achievement. Maybe it could have been seen as unfair then, but it happened in 2013. I'm pretty sure there were threads about this on the forum way back when. I think it's a bit late too complain about it now. Also, you'll be surprised to learn that, by my calculation, there are at least 60 diving locations in the game and all the ones outside the 38 for Dive Master are either in special locations (e.g. The Mists or instances) or on a map that was added after launch. Not to mention that all of them has (or in one specific case, used to have) a dedicated achievement attached to it that is not Dive Master. Point is, there are 38 that are required, including Not So Secret. Do all, or don't. If you want the title and Mastery Point, though, you will need to, just like all before you had to, as well. 2 1 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zohane.7208 Posted November 2, 2021 Share Posted November 2, 2021 They could add a new title: "Almost a Dive Master" 😁 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aspirine.6852 Posted November 2, 2021 Share Posted November 2, 2021 On 8/30/2021 at 7:32 PM, costepj.5120 said: The dive is actually very easy when you know how. After I died on my first attempt, a kind player showed me exactly where to exit the platform. If I recall correctly, it involved lining up on a particular feature and stepping backwards. Then it was straight down; no need to manoeuvre to avoid obstacles. The fact that you need to do that makes it clear how stupid the design is. 4 2 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kharmin.7683 Posted November 2, 2021 Share Posted November 2, 2021 It's a good thing that this achievement is not required content. One can play the game without needing it. 2 1 1 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flasterko.4087 Posted November 2, 2021 Share Posted November 2, 2021 44 minutes ago, kharmin.7683 said: It's a good thing that this achievement is not required content. One can play the game without needing it. That is true for IBS, HoT and PoF mastery points. Red mastery points are quite tedious collect so you dont have much alternatives. 1 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raknar.4735 Posted November 2, 2021 Share Posted November 2, 2021 Split it and create a Dive God title? 2 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Astralporing.1957 Posted November 2, 2021 Share Posted November 2, 2021 (edited) 15 hours ago, DarcShriek.5829 said: How can one be a dive master without mastering all the dives? All you had to do was to do it before Not So Secret was introduced. Everyone that already had the title by then retained it when that dive was added to the achievement. I'm quite sure there are still some Dive Masters left that never made that one jump. Edited November 2, 2021 by Astralporing.1957 2 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sobx.1758 Posted November 2, 2021 Share Posted November 2, 2021 (edited) Right, because heavens forbid that some achievements aren't bordering on auto-complete. Yes, apparently facts are still very confusing to some people 😄 Edited November 2, 2021 by Sobx.1758 1 1 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tuna Bandit.3786 Posted November 2, 2021 Share Posted November 2, 2021 Up front: I have the achievement. The problem for me is not getting up there... The problem is the dive itself. It is not something you can actually "master" but one you get from sheer luck or knowing where to stand (exact right spot, face right way and dodge backwards and hands off keyboard) That is not a skill, that is doing what someone by accident discovered. You cannot jump and look and try to avoid things, it is too picky for that. I fully support removing this dive all together from the achievement. 7 4 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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