Vindicator Feedback Thread

[Squigglez.1236]

I'll admit I'm not that great at figuring out the best way to use builds but I literally can't figure out how to work this thing.
First I personally think the coefficients are too low on everything. The difference between damage in zerker vs harriers (or as close as I could get with the demo gear) was low, similarly the difference in healing between those two sets was also low (maybe 200 hp difference). Hasn't this been an issue in the past, having high base heal with crap scaling. The spec is all over the place for me the extra cooldown on leviathan strength basically makes f2 poison, there's no skills so worth using that justify having 40s recharge on the flip. The flipping skills makes it hard for the spec to find identity, with one set being defense and one set being offense it just makes it so playing support or dps will hate one of the colors. The dodges are ridiculous too, they seem to have almost no ability to scale surfaces so it's easy to get stuck while moving, they take forever to land and the attack one is pvp mirage dodge with daredevil refill time. The heal dodge when combined with the improved vigor trait and enduring recovering can be used every 5 seconds, with some boon duration you can use that to maintain permanent 5 man vigor with 2500 health and 2500 barrier. The damage elite doesn't do much damage, I'm not even sure what the urn is trying to do, the heals are almost on par with a heal scourge using transfusion, but the radius is smaller than the heal dodge radius, it hurts you to maintain, eats your energy, cuts your speed in half, and disables your ability to be healed (though barrier still seems to work which hilariously means a heal scourge could keep alive someone trying to use this.) The drop can't be used instantly, has no effect if you're above 75% hp, and if it drops because you run out of energy it doesn't give you any of the boons, it doesn't do anything unless you're trying to grief by getting yourself killed.
The greatsword seems geared more toward fighting trash mobs, or tagging. I do like weapon sets with a built in block but the dash feels broken in that you take 2 steps and then stop dead long before 900 range, auto attack is fine if a little weak, random hits for skill 5 make it questionable to use if fighting small groups or a single person, maybe make it so the first blast is on your current target.

I can't suggest much because I can't figure out what was the goal here. I'd say make alliance tactics a maintained skill (like 1 energy cost) that stop skills from flipping over, or maybe make leviathan strength change it to do that, so people could set the skills they wanted and then lock them for repeat use. Also I'd suggest just let the other legends keep the effects of ancient echo from core rev, 25 energy for 25 endurance isn't worth it. Make the urn do... something else, maybe make it a long channel that can be canceled with the drop have it absorb damage in the area based on how long it was channeled. That would at least give it more in common with the GW1 version, and would reward being able to predict damage spikes. Right now I don't know how much use this will see. The healing is packed into the traits instead of the skills, and the GS would be better off used with a different legend.

[Kheron.9062]

1.5s cast time for a heal that only does ~700hp (kurzik) or ~3.5k if you hit 5 enemies in a TINY radius (luxon heal) is horrible.

Halve the cast time, and up the healing. Battlescars & heal dodge shouldn't be our only source of healing.

Remove shared CD for skill flips.

Make F2 more rewarding.

Remove animation lock on dodge, and fix the whole getting hit by CC during it. It's a dodge, we shouldn't get hit during it.

Fix GS3 dash distance.

[Ezrael.6859]

You guys got given the best GS in the game for damage, mobility and defence all in one, yet still you complain?

[Oldyoung.6109]

3 minutes ago, Ezrael.6859 said:

You guys got given the best GS in the game for damage, mobility and defence all in one, yet still you complain?

the GS is amazing but that has nothing to do with having 1 dodge being horrible.

[xXxNikiGoesWildxXx.3678]

IT is awesome mechanic to play this as dodge-barrier/healer support, i love the way that you can spam dodge and with it heal allies and it is very interactive, very fun to precisely hit so many targets with circle of your dodge, love it.

Anything else is just not good, sorry 😛 There is no upkeep spell and having double utilities is not fun, especially if i flip different ones so i just forget which ones i fliped then i realize oh i can't get righty one i really need and want and that is just bad.

Greatsword skills, ok, can't see it fitting the theme but it is better than theme.

Traits are ok some needs tweaks.

 

[Vasdamas Anklast.1607]

Just watched one of the best revs I know fight soul beast and core necromancer after 5 hours of both pve and wvw testing. That was the saddest kitten I've seen in a while lmao
They need to remove an option that allows necro boys to spam kitten without facing people.

Edited September 22, 2021 by Vasdamas Anklast.1607

[VladTepes.7042]

Many things already been said. I like the idea of managíng between the legendary alliance skills but the cds feel unnecessary and the f2 skill ist just useless outside of the legendary Alliance. The urn is one of the worst skills ever seen, basically killing yourself in pvp environment.

My biggist Issue is the dodge itself, at least in wvw. While i liked it in the beginning, the more i played the more i hated it. Basically it is a skill with a (huge) evade frame that completely locks you out of the dodge mechanic itself. You can't use it offensive because it leaves you vulnerable und if you use it as a classic dogde all the enemy has to do is to wait and think about how he wants to welcome you back.

Also having half of the spec focusing on this new dogde-skill looks unimaginativ.

I would rather have the standard dodges back and the new dodge-skill as an f-skill

 

[Za Shaloc.3908]

Can we take a moment to talk about how absolute trash the Alliance legend swap image above the player is? Looks like a couple of some knock off 25cent gundams. Where is the taste?

[Klypto.1703]

I was hoping I could find an E-spec that would confuse me and make me turn into a yoyo and throw up all at the same time.  Thank you so much for pulling that off.  Although at some point it felt like I was doing a better job than the stuff I tested on at killing myself.  This was basically the highlight of whether I would buy this xpac but I'm just not feeling it sorry but I'll pass.

[scerevisiae.1972]

Overall it's one of the better if not the best e-specs so far.

Things I like:

* GS as a weapon is great, nice combination of skills
* the dodge mechanics actually work and are pretty good
* _most_ of the utilites are good

 

Things I dislike:

* I don' like the flip-over skills at all. I'd rather choose the ones I want and lock them in so they never flip over.
* the blue elite (the urn) feelsbadman, should be instant cast not 1sec CD to use then use again, not to mention the effect is really bad/useless, I never want to use it
* there is an annoying movement/animation lock at the end of the middle dodge GM attack, I stopped using it because of it.
* the top GM dodge trait is good but costs too much energy, 150 is too much.

Edited September 22, 2021 by scerevisiae.1972

[Silesium.5623]

After Playing bit of pvp/wvw/pve there is lots of problem with this space.

Animation don't know if there are final or placeholders but need improvment or change.

Forerunner of Death : Don't know if that trait idea was to attack or run with that long drop down animation, Need to be add bigger dmg numbers + hard cc + (mechanic when u hit downed enemy its finish it). The 150 endurence way to big and clonky if this spec is about evode looks like dev are in panic mode since mirrage.
Alliance Tactics : bad idea nothing new, dont add to core rev (25 energy cost???) 
Traits: To much focus on dodge (major some traits diffrent numbers) 
Utilitys : WHY WHY there is cd on secend skills after first one??? 
No CC:  no cc on spec or weapon? rev have fury on invocation if cc whats happen here x.x
Weapon: Feel weak for GS. 1 and 2 nothing special 3 bug distance 4 don't scale proper as it says 5 re-used long animation with dmg all over place. Will be cool if 5 slash in to ground and open rift that pulls everthing to it not like cc but like some boss mechanic that move u around area u could run from it but u move slow or run twords it with increse speed.

As lots people say this spec need lots of twicking remove usless condi dmg if its power dps.

There is lots to say negative but I just put my 2 cents what can be done or change.

Remove F2 skill and change it so u switch bettwen alience legends 1/4 cd but make sure that its dont effect trais and sigils and rune only if u use F1 to switch legends.

Add F3 / instant cost (shout or mantra) of 10 energy / 5sec u can use evode with out using endurence / cd 20 sec /// other legends for 3 sec all skills and utilty have no energy cost. (number can be balance). That just idea dont thorw bombs on it.

The urn skill like every one says need complite overhole or scrach:
Some idea gain urn that drian ur HP after drop spown 3 spirit bind to location (gw1) that are invincible(dmg/cc) the spirits work like in gw1, There HP + Dmg dep on how much HP urn take from player. There range can be 1200 each hit of spirit steal hp back to players (need balanced numbers) spirit lose hp per sec + per attack, if there is no target spirit just die over time from hp drain(with will increase if they have noting to attack).

The spear elit can get some buffing if its take so long to proc 1. remove torrment 2. add dmg 3. increse cost to 30 or 40 4. add tount chain(maybe pull) or hard cc 5. New mechanic when the spear hits target switch location with spirit.
That just ideas.

Will be realy good if they split alience legend somehow if u main rev using this spec is like : look after energy/cd/endurence/specskills its way to much, also I see that lots of utility skills are week becouse spec have 10 skills so basicly u panish player cos he have to cost some skill 2 times to get any benifits.(wait u cant there is cds...)

Also Anet need stop this trait with say TO OTHERS half of traits in revenat trait line dont work on him...
Hope they plan balance to core.


 

[BadSanta.6527]

Arenet i reqlly hope you will delete this elite abd make new one really do

[Kalavin.8674]

1. Greatsword skill does not even combo into itself. ex: Warrior GS 3 is a mobile whirl to move away from the fight. GS 5 rush bring you back into the fight which can be combo with after GS 3. /// Guardian 5 is a pull to combo 4/2 /// Reaper GS 5 pull to combo with 4/// Ranger 1 auto restore endurance to encourage dodging which skill 5 has a bonus effect if you hit from behind and refresh skill 2.

   1. I mess around with all the skills and there is no order that make sense I just need to use 2 and 5 because i already get a gap closer with nomad advance or dodge into combat.

2. visual.

   1. The dodge is so bad visually because you jump off screen then teleport back half way in and slam. Why not just have them jump into a mist portal that is half way up?

   2. Greatsword skill 5 Whirl your greatsword that open holes in the mist...what holes? there is none. just reuse the renegade bow portal effect and make it blue. The entire Greatsword skill visual effect is so bad compare to every other weapon that Rev can use. ex: Mace litteral set the ground on fire. Axe opens a huge portal, Sword explode red mist bombs on enemies/ Shortbow is nothing but visual effects.

   3. The entire utility skills the effect is horrible and you cant tell what skill the vindicator just used beside the physical animation only on some of them. Is just smokes here and smokes there. skill Rage/burst/song/awaken share the same skill effect but different animations.

3. Gameplay.

   1. Lack of upkeep in Arch skill really kills the playstyle I been used to.

   2. Again Greatsword skill does not combo into each other, for having 15 new skills none of them work together.

   3. Lack of CC and bad gameplay flow. Arch is dash in then Boon/boon/boon/. Saint is Dash away / boon/boon/boon. I guess the having 6boons skill would be alright if GS was fun to use.

   4. If I just want to kill mobs and do openworld and focus on using Arch legend skills I gotta wait for F2 or spam saint ASAP to flip back to arch after.

   5. horrible utility combos. It doesn't even encourage you to try 5/6/7/8/10 in different legends flip because they dont work well of each others. There no push and pull no skill dancing just hit spell n get boons

As a Rev main this espec is a mess too much fluff. yeah yeah Great they broke the rule and gave 2 legends that does nothing with each others.

my suggestion is Revamped GS skills and add a toggle F2/Arch mode --F3/ Saint --F4/ the way it is

Edited September 22, 2021 by Kalavin.8674
sorry for the messy format just Copy paste from my reddit post.

[Pheex.8932]

 

-Greatsword 3 doesn't do the attack animation about half the time even when enemies are completely in range and not obstructed by terrain or objects.

 

-Purely presentationwise, imo, the 2 and 4 skills with Greatsword on a male Charr, especially the 4 counterattack, lack impact and look clunky. On the 4 counterattack my charr just does an awkward, VERY slow shove with the sword, not anything that looks like an attack.

The flow of the animation into other skills and animations seems broken too, often not even trying to animate the counterattack but just going into a new skill before the counterattack animation even starts (while it actually does counterattack!)

I've been testing this char for about 2 hours, the 4 other race / gender combinations I've tried so far are somewhat better.

 

-But ripping the reaper animation for 5 really, really bugs me though. The animation has too much identity to be reused in a copy paste for another class.

 

-The dodge jump doesn't actually move your hitbox up, there's just a big invisible hitbox on the ground where your character would be. I understand the glitching and balancing implications but it's still a shame the skill has been limited, as one of the coolest things about new movement skills is the new potential it opens up.

 

-Nomad's Advance (red 7) doesn't show the greatsword model during the charge

 

-With only one extremely slow charging dodge you have to rely on your block, F2 and well timed stability boons to not get knocked over, pushed back or otherwise cced every 2 seconds, this is going to turn off new players and can potentially become very, very tedious in pve. It'd be fine if crowd control was not as common as it is, but in gw2 nearly every mob has at least 1-2 different cc abilities.

 

 

 

 

Please don't lower the budget for new expansion content.

With people leaving WoW left and right now is the time to draw new and returning players in, not milk whoevers left until end of life.

 

Edited September 22, 2021 by Pheex.8932

[jcm.8921]

Playing with it a bit, I have to agree with others that the Alliance legend is in a really bad spot, and simply going with the tried and true Shiro/Jalis combo feels better. I like the duality aspect of the Alliance stance as a concept, but in its current iteration I find it to be extremely clunky.

The flip mechanic on the Alliance skills really break up your toolkit in a way that does not feel good at all, and the only way to remedy that is to eat the energy and cooldown cost to flip things back either individually (very painful) or through Alliance Tactics (RIP energy and cooldown), which in itself has issues that, again, others have stated, in that the F2 feels extremely mediocre on other legends.

Removing the cooldown when it flips would immediately made it better, but it still leaves you having to use the opposing flip to get back to the flip you really want, on top of the fact that the F2 is still pretty meh on other legends. Because of this, I'd actually like to see the duality nature of the Alliance legend become an overarching mechanic on a new F3, that not only switches which skills you have available in the Alliance legend, but also interacts with a new F2, that ideally would have different effects based on which side of the Alliance is currently "channeled" via the F3. Archemorus could give the F2 an offensive effect, while Saint Viktor could give it a defensive effect, with the specific effect changing based on the particular legend you're channeling via the F1.

Aside from that, Vindicator is in a pretty decent spot and honestly just needs some tweaking. The greatsword kit overall feels pretty decent, with my only complaints being that I feel the GS 2 isn't as impactful as it should be, the GS 3 definitely has a range bug or quirk with an untargeted dash, and the GS 5 also feels pretty unsatisfying. I like the idea of the dodge, too, but I do feel that the recharge is way too slow, even with all the endurance and vigor Vindicator pumps out, and I definitely dislike that aftercast animation, it needs to not lock you in place when you're coming back down. There's also too many traits that focus on the dodge, and overall I feel that Vindicator needs some improvements in the power damage department, as I was led to believe that this was meant to be the power DPS spec of Revenant.

Artwork and sound design needs some work, too, but I'll chalk that up to this just being a beta preview, and I'll trust that the artwork and sound design are improved closer to release.

[Argo Silversea.4609]

9 hours ago, Scoobaniec.9561 said:

I could write a book about whats wrong with this spec within 5min.

 

Greatsword - reused animations everywhere. Looking at tooltips in wvw cooldown are way too long.

(General balance) And thats a general issue with weapons in general. Rev in general was supposed to have low cds at the cost of weapon skills costing energy. So its time to decide which direction you want to take and either bring us back low cooldowns or get rid of energy from weapon skills. 

 

Apart from that gs 3 is actually bugged on range and goes like 300meters max? I feel like it is a skill that could also use evade frame. Also why swing from gs 2 looks exactly the same as autoattack? Theres literally no tell in pvp if i get hit by auto or a "maul"

 

Now lets move into a real kitten here:

 

Class mechanics

F2 - too limited outside of new legendary stance and cost a hefty 25 energy to activate. What even? It needs entire rework.

Dodge - already covered by others. Id like to that adding extra 50 endurance to the bar on the Death Drop is an unnecesary overkill.

 

 

The legendary clunkiness itself

 

Whats the point of a skill flip if they are going on a cooldown?! If i have a flip skill let me use it back to back as i desire while the other used up skill recoveres off cooldown. We already have energy system in place to prevent spamming. For this case i recommend taking a look to Smite; King Arthur character which has already similiar system of flips 

 

Nomad Advance - could use some immobilize

Battle dance - should be insta cast otherwise its pointless as an evade. These lessons should be learned from warrior rifle already.

Scavenger burst - takes too long to cast especially for the damage being so low

Spear of some noname - again long cast time, low damage. Honestly spekaing since this spec lack any form of cc it would be nice to put a pull here at the very least given its a elite ability.

Urn - literally the worst thing so far. Self damaging ability that cannot be insta turned off resulting in a 100% death if cc'ed

Traits

 

Already explained by others as well i think. No point having master traits doing literally the same thing in diff methods.  The first 2 master traits to trashbin. The end.

Leviathan is literally the last thing id pick up as in current state it makes F2 a worse version than what it is baseline.

 

 

3/10. Nice try but its horrible clunky spec in current state. No cc, no damage modifiers. Questionable survivability. Lack of real utility. Wish it was at least fancy but it fails even here. Major rework needed.

Thank you for putting this up. I hope they read it!!

[Sir Vincent III.1286]

Reaver's Curse

- Song of Arboreum makes this trait obsolete

 

 

That's all I got to say about this. I like it as is.

 

[Pooh.6897]

coming from necro, I really like this spec. The dual skill design feels unique and fun to use and gs attacks are nice and fast. It’s almost as if i played a completely different espec then everybody else. I don’t really understand why vindicator is received so poorly. As a necro main, i was disappointed in harbinger. Perhaps the reason for the negative reception is because rev mains had hoped to get a pure power espec, not one that’s hybrid with healing. For me though, vindicator does everything i was looking for in a new necro espec. Reaper and scourge have been fun, but i really hoped for glyphs on necro and i feel that this is it.

That said, there are a few improvements that could take place. I’d like more control over my skills and thus more F#-skills. I am a total beginner when it comes to rev so i tend to mash buttons. The energy replenishing skill is very important for me. Also urn of saint victor is problematic. Other than that I really liked vindicator. I understand that this post will probably receive an endless amount of those confused emoji’s, but so be it. My experience was just vastly different and I’m switching my main to revenant because of it, I love it that much.

[LucianTheAngelic.7054]

From my very short testing so far

1)  The Greatsword skills feel clunky, specifically the autoattacks and GS2.  There needs to be some aftercast reduction or something done here as it doesn't feel like the skills flow properly into each other when queued.

2)  The entire kit is lacking a massive amount of damage in PvE, especially the "Damage dodge" and utilities. With some very rudimentary quick rotations I'm not impressed with its damage output at all compared to both Herald and Renegade.  This is a Power class that lacks good power damage modifiers and also lacks heavy burst.  Very unfortunate.  Archemorous Spear Elite is especially underwhelming in terms of damage.  I honestly would jack up the numbers in PvE by 20-30% for almost everything (especially the utilities/elite)  and possibly look into reworking energy costs for the F2/Alliance Legend Kit.

3) The Entire Alliance Kit is wayyyyy too energy hungry, both in terms of revenant's energy and regular endurance energy.  The Cooldowns vs Energy Costs across the kit feel out of whack. 

4)  The Damage Dodge is wayyyy too long (and needs its damaged probably tripled in PvE to be worthwhile; Bladesworn has a super high damage skill in Dragon Trigger for time investment so there's no reason why Death Drop can't have higher damage to compensate for its time investment) and the Dodge mechanic feels somewhat clunky overall.  I don't understand why the circle fills up, then an additional animation plays, then the superhero landing happens.  NO, the Superhero landing should just happen after the circle fills.  This would make the dodge feel 1000x better. 

5)  Some animations are incredibly dull.  The utilities, especially Reaver Burst and its flip skill both look terrible.  The different grandmaster dodges should have more of a noticeable animation difference on landing (Every daredevil dodge looks different for example).  The Legend UI I'm pretty sure just uses Ventari stance animations right now around the skill bar.  Also seems like the "legend swap" sounds haven't been added yet entirely. 

Edited September 22, 2021 by LucianTheAngelic.7054

[draxynnic.3719]

Probably saying things others have already said, but I'm a bit time-poor to go through the entire thread at the moment.

 

Overall, I think it's probably the best of this set. I doubt I'm going to have time this week to do much more than fiddling around on golems, but it is one I'm looking forward to taking into new content.

 

With that said, there are at least a few suggestions and observations that come to mind:

 

* The 'urn slam' animation is great, but it's not really fitting for an ability that could potentially kill you to require a second-long animation that is susceptible to CC in order to cancel it. Might be better to just make the cancel instant activation and have the urn drop on its own. Could even make the urn automatically drop and heal you when you reach 0 health so that it CAN'T kill you. If you're really attached to keeping the animation... make it a stunbreak covered with stability. There's a part of me wondering, in fact, if it really should have the "cannot be healed while using this ability" trait - I'm guessing it's so that you can choose to go to low health for the greater benefits from the urn smash, but I'm not convinced that a bit of protection and resistance is really worth dropping below 50 or 25% health for. Making it be possible to heal while using it could allow for interesting synergies with self-sustain or an external healer, while the energy upkeep would still provide a limiting factor of how long it can be kept up.

 

*As I think someone pointed out earlier in this thread, the Kurzick rollback skill probably shouldn't have a 1/2-second activation. Or if it does, it should do something during that activation, like evading during the windup (similar to staff 5) or attacking nearby enemies before rolling back (which the current animation seems to imply, and would put it in line with things like ranger sword 3). Maybe it does already evade during the windup - I was only testing on PvP lobby golems, after all.

 

*Greatsword 2 really feels like it should have more of a 'cleave the ground with your sword' animation to generate all those cracks rather than just swinging it into the air. Could possibly use the ranger greatsword 2 animation, with the bear replaced by some other particle effect. 

 

*Greatsword 3 seems a bit buggy. Shorter range than it should have according to the tooltip, and sometimes the attack doesn't trigger.

[GrayHawk.7560]

Follow up feedback-

 

I'm more used to the combat loop now and it's actually really fun.  Love the GS kit (still think True Strike should be 1/2 sec not 3/4.  

 

Not really going to comment on the damage since I'm sure that will be tweaked, for the avoidance of doubt it can be bursty but definitely needs to be a bit higher though.

 

Only a few major complaints now -

 

1. Urn of St Viktor is absolutely awful to a point that I will blow F2 just to switch that skill sometimes.  The skill needs to be removed from the game and completely reworked.

 

2. Still not a fan of the CD on the flip skills (other than healing and elite for obvious reasons).  I'm getting used to using the push - pull and it's very enjoyable but the CD feels bad.  Energy is enough of a limiting factor to stop spamming the skills.  One solution would be to have a cool down after ever two activations of a skill be it Arch and Vik or Arch F2 Arch etc kind of how Herald skills function.  This would also assist with a re-work of Leviathan.

 

3. Alliance really needs at least 1 hard CC skill, maybe in Urn of St Viktor's slot.

 

4. F2 is unrewarding on any non alliance legend.  It should have more of an effect per Core / Herald.

 

All round there's a lot of potential.

Edited September 22, 2021 by GrayHawk.7560

[def.7435]

My general thoughts on Vindicator is that it is supremely unrewarding and lacking any sort of spec specific benefit or identity.  It's not terrible and unlike the eles I'm not too upset:  We already have two very useful rev specs that are in the main meta across game modes, and as it stands this new spec at least feels like it might be somewhat fun to play in open world. The conceptual design of a lot of the more noticeable abilities look like they have the potential to be very engaging to play, but the spec as a whole is just so meh as to negate that.

 

On the one hand you have this ... underwhelming dive dps spec in GS+Archemorus and then you have Viktor which is a wack, out-of-place, but quite possibly decent healer. I haven't fully tested what Centaur+Viktor+Staff is capable of yet but it's probably got good healing output. Issue is the non-healing part of that build would be fairly useless I think and make it not viable. To work as a healing spec, it needs more general utility (superspeed pls) and easy to access boon production. The dps from GS+Archemorus is quite simply lacking. As others have said, the elite spear thing on Archemorus is simply too little damage. I haven't been able to benchmark this at all on ArcDPS, but I think just from playing through it needs buffs to some of its dps abilities to match up against Elemental Blast on Herald and F3/Citadel Bombardment on Renegade.

 

The dodge mechanic looked very interesting when I first saw it but my issue is that its a straight downgrade from just having two regular dodges. Even if you take all the dodge traits it still just isn't very impactful as a dps/heal/utility and as a dodge, I'd rather have a normal dodge anyway as those are much more instantaneous. Even if you end the dodge as soon as possible the time it takes to move the same distance as a regular dodge is much longer: you have several keypresses instead of 1, several animations instead of 1, and you have to manually move (as opposed to regular dodge where you just select a direction). In WvW the dodge changes alone are enough to make this spec completely useless particularly in zergs (but also in roaming, just not as bad). Anet needs to remember how much gw2's dodge mechanic is an inherent part of the core fabric of the combat system and fiddling with it will always be more likely to kitten up than not. To make this dodge mechanic work, we need to have two bars back (or a MUCH faster base regen rate), and to increase the fluidity to match existing dodges. You can nerf the trait lines as needed to make this balanced. As it stands - I would literally rather have my two dodges back, despite it making the Alliance trait line useless. Actually, giving us a single regular dodge even would make this more playable.

 

I will continue to echo that the F2 skill just feels lacking, unfun and supremely underpowered. Its far less powerful/useful than the legend agnostic spec mechanics of renegade or herald, regardless of what traits you take. So, to begin with it needs more and stronger effects when used. The flip mechanic itself I'm quite split on. It adds more difficulty to playing vindicator compared to the relatively easy renegade or herald, but it just feels vaguely unpleasant to use. You have to keep track of the states of abilities, and think way too far ahead in order to have the correct abilities up when you need them. When I played it, I ended up wanting to play it such that I was always attempting to keep the bar on all Archemorus or all Viktor as much as possible (aka i was trying to FORCE the Alliance mechanic into playing like two Legends). Anet, I would consider simply making these two into separate legends. Whether that is two more legends in the regular two legends slots, or a separate discrete swap system within the Alliance legend (i.e., theres no flip on proc, F2 is the only way to switch, make F2 cooldown very short). An idea I had to give Alliance identity and utility was to have a spec mechanic  (either for the spec as a whole or as a trait) that simply allows you to take three legends. Then you could make Archemorus and Viktor separate, and this spec could have a role - to allow revs to take more utility/skills if they need it.

 

 

Edited September 22, 2021 by def.7435

[SidewayS.3789]

After i tested a few hours, i can truly say this spec is for Open World/Story. It isn't for Raids/Fractals and i doubt it will have a place in WvW, maybe in PvP. So those who are into pve endgame content, we will remain being alac/condi dps for the next expansion.

[Brunnsteinangel.2568]

After trying to get into the spec again and then taking a bit time of to think, I want to offer the following suggestions:

 

Greatsword:
While rethinking the theme of this weapon would be great, at least overhall #5 and and think what #3 and #4 should actually do.
They all don't fell great and there is no synergy within the weapon.
Shortbow for example: #4 & #5 to keep enemies away, #2 to hit them, while running, as you can shoot "behind" you.

 

Legend&Utilities:

Completly rework them.
1. Only 5 Second CDs between each flip-over and HALF the energy costs.

2. Now make those utilities interact with each other, not "do the same thing".

e.g. => Malyx Call to Anguish pulls in enemies to set up Embrace the Darkness, something like this needs to be there!

3. Make it viable to "weave" between the skills, so you actually want to hop between red&blue when you use the Legend.

4. DO NOT make one support and one dmg side in this legend, let both be both but with a focus to one side or the other.

Due to the low CDs and Energy costs the effect can be smaller, but in stead you will use those skills more often.

 

Traits:

A LOT LESS focus on the dodge. Like replace ALL Master traits.

Instead give some option the interact with weaving both sides of the legend.

And Dmg modifier, etc.

 

Playstyle:

Think weaver but for the utilitys. While in Alliance you should "weave" through your utilities, gaining buffs, helping allies, increasing your damage and so on. It should be a lot faster with more emphasis on the utility skills.

Greatsword should mirror/support this playstyle.
=> switch #2 with #3 but make it (along #5) a damage field, that ticks for a few seconds, instead of a single damage hit.

[mexay.3902]

On paper this spec is awesome. In practice it's pretty rubbish. With a few small tweaks it could really shine though.

 

Dodge

I understand the thought process behind this  (~0.75 second per 50 endurance), but in practice it feels very, very bad. Instead, just make them all  0.75 second and 50 endurance like Thief, but give us only 1 like Mirage. Adjust numbers slightly, as they are already pretty underpowered.

 

F2

This feels like a nothing trait. I'd rather have the core trait for free energy to be honest. The dodges are not high-value enough that I am desperate to fire them off constantly, and switching every Alliance skill to it's exact opposite is not what I want. I want to be in Kurzick OR Luxon most of the time, not both. This should really be split out or totally reworked as others have suggested. Also the energy cost is very high. 50% of your starting energy is a big ask. It also doesn't feel great on other legends.

 

Traits

These are the least impactful traits I have seen and that is saying something. Add more damage modifiers and interesting traits.

 

Adept

Zzzz. These are very underpowered. Amnest is the wrong way around and should offer much more might (2 - 3 stacks) and kurzick should remove a condition or something better than a few seconds of regen.

 

Master

The master line really all does the same thing in one way or another and this doesn't really create fun options. Song of Arboreum looks to be mathematically the best anyway. Add a big damage modifier and something to power up Greatsword.

 

Grand Master

As mentioned in the doge section, these are okay but the dodge time is too long. They need some tuning and all to be on 1 0.75s dodge at 50 energy. Reduce uptime to match.

 

Balance in Discord

This is also a nothing trait. 1.1k health and some regen every time I swap. Okay that's kind of nice but throw in some might or something interesting and we're talking. Alternatively scrap it entirely and move one of the Master minor traits to this slot and rebuild the whole Master set.

 

Empire Divided

This isn't too bad. They probably need a bit of a tweak but it feels a lot more like an Adept or Master tier minor than Grandmaster.

 

Skills

These all feel quite clunky and slow. I don't like the CD on swap. The skill that should go on cooldown should be the one you just used, not the one you are about to use. This will reduce a lot of the clunkiness.

 

Heals

They're fine but that's about it. They need a base heal though.

 

Battle Dance/Nomad's Advance

Battle Dance should ditch the wind-up. Nomad's needs a more might on cast, or could gain similar functionality to Facet of Strength where it gives you a buff on use. Really it's just very underpowered.

 

Scavenger Burst/Tree Song

These are pretty solid but could use a bit of a tune up. They feel underpowered. 5 seconds feels more reasonable for quickness and the cast time is a bit slow. Tree Song could use Swiftness of like 8s.

 

Awakening/Reaver's Rage
Boon durations are just way too short. They need a big buff. Also cast time should be removed. Why is a stunbreak on a cast time? Blergh.

 

Spear/Urn

Spear needs to hit way harder. Twice the damage. Urn needs the ability to double tap and the constant damage needs to be reduced by 50%

 

 

 

Greatsword

Underpowered and slow. It's like reaper GS but worse. Mist Unleashed should hit significantly harder, as should Phantom's Onslaught. Eternity's Requiem should offer yourself Might or Fury or something.

 

 

Summary

The spec mainly just feels slow, clunky and underbaked. It's hard to get at the abilities I want and when I can get them, they don't even feel that good to use.