Bladesworn Feedback Thread

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

1 minute ago, Axl.8924 said:

I was testing in open world to get all the charges to test dragon trigger and i was unable to do it without killing a mob. The charge takes so long that by the time its full trigger, mobs are dead.

for the effort you are putting up with this slow buildup i don't see the payoff.

 

10 charges is too much in the end, even for OWPvE.

[Mesket.5728]

6 minutes ago, Salvatore.3749 said:

Lol. I'll check it out.

Just an FYI, I'm not really a warrior main since I didn't like how clunky the class was in the beginning. I do like how fluid this spec is for now. 

yet you discuss a lot to players who have thousands of hours on warrior.

GS has been an iconic weapon for warriors because of how fluid it was. The only meh thing you can say about it is how hundred blades locks you in place but besides that, GS is as fluid and agile as a weapon can get. So no, we didn't need Gunsaber AT ALL. It is in no way or shape better than GS just because of hundred blades (and having its burst skill). HB was already our "move to land", our "time it right and execute" move. Dragon Trigger is just the same with steroids. BS is completely meh spec for warriors main. It adds nothing and makes it all worst and clunkier.

[aetemes.2603]

Not a warrior main...but I think if warriors get dual pistol that would be a cool overall bullet fiesta class. Being bound to play around the blade alone and no swap is boring a dual pistol with it is hype though especially that its animations are actually cool.

 

That and can the handle of the sword not be so kitten long with the barrel being so thick then it's a katana the sword does not look cool to be stuck with it for the rest of your specced life.

Edited September 23, 2021 by aetemes.2603

[Axl.8924]

25 minutes ago, Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

10 charges is too much in the end, even for OWPvE.

Then again one thing i noted is I have a feeling my gear isn't probably optimal for max dps. Prob zerker gear is.

I changed in arms from unsuspecting blow to sundering blow and final line furious to burst precision.

I have noticed a little but the dmg isn't that amazing even on dragon trigger with max charges.

Personally i'd change it so that a single burst of all charges does same but with 1 charge and instead have single uses, or increase damage dramatically for using all charges by a lot more.

Reaper can do that same kind of damage and isn't even highest damage and pays a penalty for having sustain as well combined as a second health bar. Bladesworn doesn't even have that and it pays a penalty and does less dmg. Sure it has mobility, but i would constitute the price fairly heavy. I was doing between 6-10k bursts. for using all 10 charges at once.

Edited September 23, 2021 by Axl.8924

[Valik Shin.9027]

This class is obvious too slow for pvp. You just can't have a windup like that and not be a one shot but you also can't have a one shot ability. Without a complete rework it just won't work for pvp. If this is what anet wants then I hope they don't even worry about its pvp side. Focus pvp on the other specs. PvE however is not a lost cause. While it's not really useful in open world, it has a lot of raid potential. I would like to see the DT cast time down to maybe 4 seconds and if that mean a 25% reduction in damage I think it would still be pretty good damage but give it a little more mobility 

[DemonCrypto.6792]

Ok peoples , we can be sure in this beta state Bladesworn does things that warrior was already doing since the start of the game but Slower and with more risk .

By comparaison core warriore didn't need  to full charge is bar he can use is burst Tactically when it seems a good time

berserker need too fill totally a large bar at first but it's totally negated by is elite skill and have inoff adrenaline to burst at least 10ish time, so with that he can start is berserker mode when it seems Tactically good.
for spellbreaker fullcounter is based in tactical reading of your oponnant so yeah

Then we speak of tactical use  of Bladesworn, i mean compared to this  other spec and core, When was waiting and being lock in place has been tactical?(exept for deadeye but at least their lock isn't mandatory)

 Dragon trigger is the most predictable moove in the game and punishable almost instantly. so why  defend this broken burst ? Big dps ? No ! so if not that can anyone tell me because I think their is something missing to this subwarrior spec.
In definitive in this form Bladesworn is just worst cor war with a gimmick

Edited September 23, 2021 by DemonCrypto.6792

[Entioch.6594]

1 hour ago, Salvatore.3749 said:

I don't see it work well in PvP and I play ranked PvP often. All I'm getting  at is mobility on Warrior GSw compared to Gun Saber is different, Gun Saber feels more fluid. I don't see much effective GS Spellbreakers, but that's just me. 

Warrior GS is NOTORIOUSLY its smoothest, least clunky weapon, like, notoriously. GS spellbreaker is literally warrior's most viable spec at a high level lmfao. This is contrarian gibberish.

[Azure The Heartless.3261]

1 hour ago, Salvatore.3749 said:

I don't see it work well in PvP and I play ranked PvP often. All I'm getting  at is mobility on Warrior GSw compared to Gun Saber is different, Gun Saber feels more fluid. I don't see much effective GS Spellbreakers, but that's just me. 

Greatsword is the most fluid weapon Warriors have and is often taken just for that reason, because it can help support the other weapons and whatever limitations they feel like having based on the ground terrain or how fast your opponent is moving, etc. Gunsaber is a clunkier greatsword. 

Edited September 23, 2021 by Azure The Heartless.3261

[Salvatore.3749]

1 hour ago, Mesket.5728 said:

yet you discuss a lot to players who have thousands of hours on warrior.

GS has been an iconic weapon for warriors because of how fluid it was. The only meh thing you can say about it is how hundred blades locks you in place but besides that, GS is as fluid and agile as a weapon can get. So no, we didn't need Gunsaber AT ALL. It is in no way or shape better than GS just because of hundred blades (and having its burst skill). HB was already our "move to land", our "time it right and execute" move. Dragon Trigger is just the same with steroids. BS is completely meh spec for warriors main. It adds nothing and makes it all worst and clunkier.

I'm just giving my initial reactions and impression as someone who just picked up the bladesworn.. GSw does not feel as clunky as Gun Saber, but if the community thinks it's clunky, hopefully ANET figures out what to do. 

In my opinion, I like it so far.  Maybe it will be more fluid in the future after all this feedback from the beta test. 
 

[Ashamir.9574]

It's a warrior.

 

I had a lot of fun playing with this class. The sustain is good, the skills are fun, it has lots of movement. It felt like a warrior, not too different from the norm but with some nice gimmicks. Is it worth picking up for more than casual gameplay? Can't say, honestly, not a big warrior player myself. The damage felt a bit lackluster, but didn't affect the fun that much as I didn't die either. Could feel exhausting if I was playing it for longer.

 

Icons: as with the rev (and the necro) the icons of the weapon skills, utilities, and trade lines appear unfinished. I assume they are, going by how detailed the ones of the ele are.

[Axl.8924]

57 minutes ago, Azure The Heartless.3261 said:

Greatsword is the most fluid weapon Warriors have and is often taken just for that reason, because it can help support the other weapons and whatever limitations they feel like having based on the ground terrain or how fast your opponent is moving, etc. Gunsaber is a clunkier greatsword. 

 

You know what? forget rifle i prefer greatsword. I just tested the hits and i can ez get to almost 15.000 damage with number 2 on gs and its on a low charge. I can even hit harder than the dragon trigger with gs 2.

Edited September 23, 2021 by Axl.8924

[Maven.1690]

Flow is slow at start but ok in longer engagements

You missed the boat by not allowing traits like leg specialist, and shield master to work with the armament walls.

I found the charge up mechanic in wvw to be next to useless in combat.

Rifle shots still feel slow and clunky along with pistol skills

Need traits or sigils or runes that impact ammo skills.

A trait to trade off enhancing armament skills would be nice.

 

[Axl.8924]

I just tested zerker to compare it to bladesworn and its way WAY better. GS Axe/mace gs as main dps and axe to keep up those stacks of vulnerability and i'm able to completely destroy mobs way better. That and the fact other classes will contribute to keeping 25 stacks mean zerker is still prob a better choice in pve.

Edited September 23, 2021 by Axl.8924

[Draconicinferno.3251]

Many of my points have already been said a lot but I'm just adding my voice.

 

Pistol doesn't feel quite right. Dragon's Roar skill range is basically melee and since you want to use Gunstinger to reload it, there's almost no point to the forward movement since you're already right up in the enemy's face. If Dragon's Roar pushed you back significantly or gave you an evade frame backwards it would flow much better with Gunstinger. To be honest, it's very hard to unseat greatsword as a weapon swap, trying to build even greater synergy with the Bladesworn spec is probably about the only way I'd actually use it.

 

Booming Fire is ok damage compared to the auto, but it doesn't have much personality. I like Artillery Slash and Cyclone trigger for ranged options, but after hanging back for a second to use them I'm using Break Step to jump in to melee range far more than I'm using it to disengage. For that reason I wish Break Step did at least a little damage on it's path

 

Players have access to enough stabalize, blocks, and blinks that I really don't know what the point electric fence is. The Gunsaber already has a projectile block, so again, Bulletproof Barrier seems redundant. Dragonspike Mine's cooldown is over 4x as long as the cooldown on Dragon Trigger, it's maybe useful once if you've messed up and got knocked out of Dragon trigger, but flow takes so long to build, that by the time you have enough flow to even bother entering Dragon Trigger again, it's recharged anyway. As far as I can see it's a near complete waste of a utility skill.

 

The time it takes to build flow is excessive. You already need to be sitting still not doing damage for a while to increase Dragon Slash charge levels. Then to top it off you lose flow / charges even when intentionally cancelling Dragon Trigger. At bare minimum flow and charge value should be fully refunded when you intentionally cancel Dragon Trigger. 

 

This spec extremely underwhelming in group content. Things die far too quickly to keep up with a consistent target. Then when you cancel to move, you lose all progress, even if you're still in combat. Running Daring Dragon and Flow Stabilizer can help you barely keep up, but the damage is pathetic, and eventually you run out of Flow Stabilizer charges, landing you with the problem this spec consistently runs into which is that flow charges far too slowly.

 

In my opinion Dragon Slash - Force takes too long to cast. We wait enough in Dragon Trigger, skills should be instant. Dragon Slash - Reach is pointlessly weak and only barely longer range than Dragon Slash - Boost. It could at the very least apply some sort of condition or CC.

 

Finally, canceling Dragon Trigger starts a weapon swap cooldown. This ends up trapping you in Gunsaber at the worst possible time and punishes player choice. F1 should be usable at any time a weapon swap would be usable.

[kmark.8519]

1 hour ago, Salvatore.3749 said:

I'm just giving my initial reactions and impression as someone who just picked up the bladesworn.. GSw does not feel as clunky as Gun Saber, but if the community thinks it's clunky, hopefully ANET figures out what to do. 

In my opinion, I like it so far.  Maybe it will be more fluid in the future after all this feedback from the beta test. 
 

You have to understand while your opinion is much respected and you have every right to express it, you do a crapton of harm to both the class and the game with this. Due to your small knowledge and lack of understanding how the class works, you are giving the false impression to the developers that the class is "fine". Imagine the internal dev meeting at ANET HQ, they are discussing the beta feedback and they can cite and point to your  feedback as "see, some players like it, it's not so bad". It's everyone's responsibility to not share information about classes they have no clue about, you should stick to the feedback of the class you play as your main and have much more experience with, there you have a very valuable and important feedback. Don't get me wrong, nothing personal, but its because of players/feedback like you why the whole warrior class is at the rock bottom in pvp. Don't do the same with this elite spec please.

Edited September 23, 2021 by kmark.8519

[Salvatore.3749]

27 minutes ago, kmark.8519 said:

You have to understand while your opinion is much respected and you have every right to express it, you do a crapton of harm to both the class and the game with this. Due to your small knowledge and lack of understanding how the class works, you are giving the false impression to the developers that the class is "fine". Imagine the internal dev meeting at ANET HQ, they are discussing the beta feedback and they can cite and point to your  feedback as "see, some players like it, it's not so bad". It's everyone's responsibility to not share information about classes they have no clue about, you should stick to the feedback of the class you play as your main and have much more experience with, there you have a very valuable and important feedback. Don't get me wrong, nothing personal, but its because of players/feedback like you why the whole warrior class is at the rock bottom in pvp. Don't do the same with this elite spec please.

Honestly, I don't think my opinion will do anything. Also, so many people have refuted me as to why this spec sucks. So, if anything they'll listen to your responses. 

While, it sucks to be told, don't play this spec, and give your opinion because its not your main character and therefore not valuable, I do understand your fear.  No one wants their new spec to be terrible and everyone is afraid it will be. However, it is what is. 

Hopefully, Bladesworn gets vastly improved from this beta test and then gets the ANET special and is completely nerfed into oblivion shortly after launch. 

[Azure The Heartless.3261]

48 minutes ago, Axl.8924 said:

I just tested zerker to compare it to bladesworn and its way WAY better. GS Axe/mace gs as main dps and axe to keep up those stacks of vulnerability and i'm able to completely destroy mobs way better. That and the fact other classes will contribute to keeping 25 stacks mean zerker is still prob a better choice in pve.

And this is the core of why this spec hurts my soul.

Berserker, despite being the worst spec for PVP currently in the game, performs better than bladesworn does. 

The drawbacks that limit berserker from being a viable pick in pvp, namely the adrenaline gating and tiny mitigation windows versus a sea of ranged classes, is not only not addressed by bladesworn's kit but actively made worse. 

It feels like nobody plays this seriously on the developer team, like they just expect it to be a noob trap/beginner class and that people should move on to ranged or casters and not expect too much out of it. 

6 minutes ago, Salvatore.3749 said:

Hopefully, Bladesworn gets vastly improved from this beta test and then gets the ANET special and is completely nerfed into oblivion shortly after launch. 

Kinda weird that you'd go from "its not so bad" to "I hope it is actually bad once all the adjustments have been made" so quickly but go off 

Edited September 23, 2021 by Azure The Heartless.3261

[Salvatore.3749]

4 minutes ago, Azure The Heartless.3261 said:

Kinda weird that you'd go from "its not so bad" to "I hope it is actually bad once all the adjustments have been made" so quickly but go off 

I still think it's a fun class. But, hey, if my opinion ain't welcome. Then kitten it. It is what it is. 😁

[Azure The Heartless.3261]

3 minutes ago, Salvatore.3749 said:

I still think it's a fun class. But, hey, if my opinion ain't welcome. Then kitten it. It is what it is. 😁

What a weird energy. Thanks for clarifying though. 

[Salvatore.3749]

Just now, Azure The Heartless.3261 said:

What a weird energy. Thanks for clarifying though. 

It's called giving back energy. You're welcome. 

[anbujackson.9564]

There is actually one thing I was wondering about.

 

Why is it that each tier of the traits focusses mainly on ONE aspect of the gameplay?

Adept: flow

Master: last ammo use

Grandmaster: gimmick improvements

 

Isnt like every traitline in the game built around the possibilities to choose between stuff like power/condi/sustain/buffing in EVERY tier? Sure the effects are different but each of the three choices are tied to one mechanic. What if I dont want to improve my DT as Grandmaster? What if I want more flow in the Master Tier? What if I dont need flow from Adept tiers because my utilities and other traitlines are enough?

 

Anyway maybe Im just overthinking it.

Edited September 23, 2021 by anbujackson.9564

[Geoff Fey.1035]

Please stay civil.

@Salvatore.3749 The main concern is when there are dozens of posts from different individuals about specific issues (Flow mechanic, clunkiness of Gunsaber/Dragon Trigger, interaction with rest of Warrior kit, etc) and then we see one person posting repeatedly that "everything is good, no changes required" that people start to worry about how this impacts the final shape of the spec if ANet dismisses the issues of the many with the contentment of the few.

This gets exacerbated when you also note that you don't regularly play Warrior and imply that you don't really see how the entire profession hangs together. It comes off as dismissing the issues and saying those who are very much invested in Warrior are either entitled, lazy, or undeserving of consideration.

The ill wishes at the end of fixing everything and then breaking it all again was unwarranted.

 

Back on topic, @anbujackson.9564 that's a fair point, at least Adept & Major should be spread out horizontally rather than vertically. Fierce as Flame & Lush Forest would synergize well to give the condi aspect (in addition if explosions also cause burning/bleeding).

[Caedmon.6798]

Remember how Deadeye got released and everyone hated playing it ( Besides that damage) and how clunky it felt because you needed to manually kneel down everytime for Dj. It got changed aswell later on and it feels Much more smoother to play as back then. Something needs to happen for this aswell,it just feels to slow and clunky for me,in its current state its not a spec i would buy the xpack for. The charge up mechanic will stay,but the immobility and clunkyness needs a change somehow. The bullet charge up time is too long in its current state. Maybe there needs to be another way to add bullet count with some skills you hit and Then charge when youre full bullet charge,instead of standing still for 5 sec,which just wont ever happen in proper competitive gameplay or wvw.

[Lindsae.3520]

So flow gain is easy with the right traits and skills. Even in PvP. The issue is absolutely the bullet loading speed. I have no problem keeping flow capped by the time it comes back up, but the amount of time doing nothing spent compared to the damage it outputs in PvP is really bad. Even with the lower bullet count trait. Keep the damage way lower than PvE, but make the bullets load faster. And please have PvPers give specs a once-over before you get to this stage, the flawed concept should have been obvious.

[Infusion.7149]

How do I say this...
The spec without Daring Dragon is similar to designing around Gunflame berserker (which is more of a "fun" build rather than a serious one no matter which game mode you are talking about).

I doubt it will take the place of Berserker in PVE or spellbreaker in competitive modes because Dragon Trigger has an obvious tell and self-root even more so than berserker designed for Gunflame. It also seems to miss depending on terrain or pathing and the range is 750-900 and the most damage in full glass I've seen while testing on WVW armistice bastion dummies is ~10K. With the Daring Dragon trait it is lower (lower risk but lower reward because it is no longer unblockable) although there is a better payoff to hitting with it (feels sort of similar to spamming Decapitate on Berserker but with a variance of range).

The deadeye comparisons aren't warranted because unlike deadeye you aren't stealthing while charging and you can't dodge either without exiting dragon trigger (that's why the dodge distance shadow step exists).

Damage-wise it seems as though the Gunsaber (not the Dragon  Trigger) doesn't have a major amount of damage on its own both in PVE and WVW so it is used to fill the gap of whatever weapon you use. If you use a rifle for whatever reason it allows you to melee roughly as well as greatsword or axe but with large PVE cooldowns (some are longer than Whirling Axe in PVE) and a bit of reach range-wise.

People I have seen were extremely excited to not be reliant on Discipline for Fast Hands yet the Gunsaber recharge is affected by fast hands and Unseen Sword's damage output is assisted by Fast Hands. Another oddity is the aegis on pistol, which could have just been a one-off block as on mace  but I guess it's so you can attack while blocking.

Aesthetically some people want to customize gunsaber which is a separate topic in itself.

How can this be salvaged to be more well rounded? I really don't know because PvE people are fixated on inflated Dragon Trigger damage output.

This is about one trick pony as it gets if you don't trait Daring Dragon.

Edited September 23, 2021 by Infusion.7149