Why complain all the time it's ridiculous

[Avatar.3568]

It's the second beta and it's the second time the elite specs felt a bit undertuned for the minority, is this bad? 

 

Noooo!!!!! 

 

We get for the first time elite specs that aren't completely broken, either with their mechanics or dmg. These specs are mostly fine (harbinger and vindicator excluded). 

 

It makes me really insane to look in this forum and see directly "buhuhuhu this elite spec is not as broken as the other where at release, even it is a beta buhuhuhu I want to do 300k krit buhuhuhu" 

 

No guys for real, give some real feedback and be 1 time happy that we are not getting absolutely broken elite specs, that take anet over a year to make them fit into the game. 

Also this specs are released 1 day ago, there is no way that most of You have actually understand how this works or have tested the class every way it's possible. 

 

Pls guys Relax

[Disney.7826]

We complain because there is nothing we could praise, except MM nerf which has nothing to do with EoD.

 

Can u tell me why would be i happy that new elite specs are bad?

If they were broken it would be at least fun to play them during beta (they would nerf on release then). Its easier to nerf than buff. We dont need 300k dmg, we need skill that has 5minute cast time and flashes everyone s screen to do more dmg than rev AA

[Avatar.3568]

51 minutes ago, Filip.7463 said:

We complain because there is nothing we could praise, except MM nerf which has nothing to do with EoD.

 

Can u tell me why would be i happy that new elite specs are bad?

If they were broken it would be at least fun to play them during beta (they would nerf on release then). Its easier to nerf than buff. We dont need 300k dmg, we need skill that has 5minute cast time and flashes everyone s screen to do more dmg than rev AA

Have you tried to use the skill directly? It's not that is a unblockable, unblindable stun with dmg

[lightDestroyer.1265]

1 hour ago, Avatar.3568 said:

It's the second beta and it's the second time the elite specs felt a bit undertuned for the minority, is this bad? 

 

Noooo!!!!! 

 

We get for the first time elite specs that aren't completely broken, either with their mechanics or dmg. These specs are mostly fine (harbinger and vindicator excluded). 

 

It makes me really insane to look in this forum and see directly "buhuhuhu this elite spec is not as broken as the other where at release, even it is a beta buhuhuhu I want to do 300k krit buhuhuhu" 

 

No guys for real, give some real feedback and be 1 time happy that we are not getting absolutely broken elite specs, that take anet over a year to make them fit into the game. 

Also this specs are released 1 day ago, there is no way that most of You have actually understand how this works or have tested the class every way it's possible. 

 

Pls guys Relax

You have honestly not even read the complaints so quit blabbering.

[Hotride.2187]

Personally I couldn't care less about the new specs. I care that the core of the game, what I enjoy, is maintained. And it just isn't being maintained from my POV. If the new specs are the excuse, its not a good one.

The new specs are not in a vacuum. People won't go "hey all, lets play the new balanced specs and forget those old broken specs". Now, if as part of the new spec package they do balancing (and do a good job at it), I'd go "good job, thats very nice" (and overdue). But right now that balancing is not seen and so players complain (that most new specs get mangled by old ones).

If no balancing comes, the new specs just become deadweight (and a massive disappointment to many). Of which the game has a lot. But hey it also has a lot of awesome stuff to do (mostly in pve, unfortunately). Which is why I don't care about the new specs.

Edited September 22, 2021 by Hotride.2187

[Disney.7826]

1 hour ago, Avatar.3568 said:

Have you tried to use the skill directly? It's not that is a unblockable, unblindable stun with dmg

Its that cast time is 17 years and the animation is more visible than lich

all utilities on all 6 new specs are pure garbage as well

Edited September 22, 2021 by Filip.7463

[Genesis.5169]

Welcome to the life of mesmers i hope you guys will atleast learn to empathize with us. Especially now that the entire game is built like how mesmer was destroyed.

[Paradoxoglanis.1904]

No one cares about classes being undertuned because its easy to change coefficients. People are mad because most of the new specs have terrible design, and that is far less likely to change. There is no way anet has time to completely rework bladesworn, vindicator dodge, catalyst hammer and utility skills, every traitline, and more within the next 6 months.

[Disney.7826]

18 minutes ago, Paradoxoglanis.1904 said:

No one cares about classes being undertuned because its easy to change coefficients. People are mad because most of the new specs have terrible design, and that is far less likely to change. There is no way anet has time to completely rework bladesworn, vindicator dodge, catalyst hammer and utility skills, every traitline, and more within the next 6 months.

They are pve designed specs

[TrollingDemigod.3041]

43 minutes ago, Genesis.5169 said:

Welcome to the life of mesmers i hope you guys will atleast learn to empathize with us. Especially now that the entire game is built like how mesmer was destroyed.

Every single Mesmers e-spec was broken from very design level, that was pure powercreep. Mirage and Chronomancer NEEDED the whole kitten rework from scratch, but a-net decided go easy way and just do some weak nerfs which more often than not just forced players to switch from one broken to another, while the whole class was still beyond broken powercreep wise.
Virtuoso beside clunkiness is the only one that actually somehow fit into "change your playstyle" based on change in mechanics, while Mirage and Chronomancer were straight powerups.
Some people are angry because of how undertuned EoD e-speces are, that they don't do 1kk dps while being immortals, but that's A-net fault for releasing HoT and PoF powercreeps.
Other people are more mad because of how poorly designed the new e-speces overall are and how little they offer.
Damage can be adjusted WHENEVER, but design is something much more difficult to fix...

[Genesis.5169]

14 minutes ago, TrollingDemigod.3041 said:

Every single Mesmers e-spec was broken from very design level, that was pure powercreep. Mirage and Chronomancer NEEDED the whole kitten rework from scratch, but a-net decided go easy way and just do some weak nerfs which more often than not just forced players to switch from one broken to another, while the whole class was still beyond broken powercreep wise.
Virtuoso beside clunkiness is the only one that actually somehow fit into "change your playstyle" based on change in mechanics, while Mirage and Chronomancer were straight powerups.
Some people are angry because of how undertuned EoD e-speces are, that they don't do 1kk dps while being immortals, but that's A-net fault for releasing HoT and PoF powercreeps.
Other people are more mad because of how poorly designed the new e-speces overall are and how little they offer.
Damage can be adjusted WHENEVER, but design is something much more difficult to fix...

 

Your wrong entirely, there was no state outside of HoT bunker chrono that Mesmer was OP thieves rangers engineers if they are good always screwed us and still do to this day. What nerfed mesmers were people like who you refused to learn how to fight them and the people who did won. It's the fault of people asking everything they can't beat to be toned down and it started with mesmer and as i warned it wont end there, the condition nerf was aimed at mesmers and it destroyed alot more specs then mesmers. I'm sorry your apart of the problem and if you can't see that its on you.

 

Anet even removed traits from mesmers just to give them back 6months later because of listening to forum tears i don't know any class has been mutilated like mesmers like i said THEY EVEN UNDID CHANGES THAT PEOPLE LIKE YOU ASKED FOR, No other class has been kittened that hard 4 traits completely removed 2 of them returned(IP and chronophantasma) cause they realized listening to people like you actually did destroy the class, few more traits got nerfed to being nigh useless like power block and chaotic interruption (AND THAT WAS SO CALLED HEALTHLY GAMEPLAY BECAUSE IT CENTER ON SKILLFUL INTERUPTS TO WIN BUT THAT HAD TO DIE TOO)

 

Nope your wrong 100%. How about the trait we used to have that clones gave weakness if they were destroyed before i shattered? I remember people like you saying OH NO, BUT MY COUNTER PLAY I DESTROY THE CLONES BUT I GET WEAKNESS FOR 2 seconds WHAT WILL I DO?  Meanwhile i lose access to, all my shatters, IH and misdirection pressure BUT NO MUH COUNTERPLAY.

 

Get outta here i lived thru these changes you know nothing. You people don't want to improve the game you want to make every class not the class you play suck and beatable by your standard nothing more. Mesmer has been regulated to just doing medium size dps with a short large burst window everything else is gone.

 

Weakness Gone, Power/Condition interruption game gone, Consistent Clone pressure gone, Consistent Condition pressure gone, Constant power pressure Gone Masters of controlling the enemy gone (spend way more time running away from people) Constant boon ripping is the only thing we have left but the game shits out so many boons now its may aswell be GONE Only thing mesmers offer in pvp right now is damage and every other class does more damage with less wind up how about YOU PLAY A MESMER before you cry to nerf it.

Edited September 22, 2021 by Genesis.5169
Legit getting tired of this every class you can't play doesn't deserve a nerf because you suck at it.

[Crozame.4098]

40 minutes ago, Paradoxoglanis.1904 said:

No one cares about classes being undertuned because its easy to change coefficients. People are mad because most of the new specs have terrible design, and that is far less likely to change. There is no way anet has time to completely rework bladesworn, vindicator dodge, catalyst hammer and utility skills, every traitline, and more within the next 6 months.

Exactly! Terrible kittening design.

[Elementalist Owner.7802]

5 hours ago, Avatar.3568 said:

We get for the first time elite specs that aren't completely broken, either with their mechanics or dmg. These specs are mostly fine

But that is exactly the point. We want to play specs that aren't broken. The beta specs ARE fine from a design perspective. The problem is they are so horribly undertuned that there is no reason to play them over a poorly designed PoF spec.

 

Is this really that hard to understand?

[Khalisto.5780]

the expectations are:

 

I hope my main class ia completely broken

 

If it is, i'll be chill and really doesnt matter if the others specs are bad, in fact it's good if other specs suck

 

If it's not, i'll cry about it and if any other spec is broken i'll double cry about it, while pretending i even care about other classes being bad too

[Paradoxoglanis.1904]

2 hours ago, Filip.7463 said:

They are pve designed specs

They are bad design in every gamemode.

Edited September 22, 2021 by Paradoxoglanis.1904

[Mik.3401]

2 hours ago, TrollingDemigod.3041 said:

Every single Mesmers e-spec was broken from very design level, that was pure powercreep. Mirage and Chronomancer NEEDED the whole kitten rework from scratch, but a-net decided go easy way and just do some weak nerfs which more often than not just forced players to switch from one broken to another, while the whole class was still beyond broken powercreep wise.
Virtuoso beside clunkiness is the only one that actually somehow fit into "change your playstyle" based on change in mechanics, while Mirage and Chronomancer were straight powerups.
Some people are angry because of how undertuned EoD e-speces are, that they don't do 1kk dps while being immortals, but that's A-net fault for releasing HoT and PoF powercreeps.
Other people are more mad because of how poorly designed the new e-speces overall are and how little they offer.
Damage can be adjusted WHENEVER, but design is something much more difficult to fix...

I don’t agree that mirage and chrono are not changing play style , the introduction of CS and mirage cloak at expense of distortion and dodge respectively did just that rotation wise and mostly strategy wise (chrono especially).

What virtuoso really brings? To do efficient damage one needs to shatter ASAP anyway and it doesn’t matter if these are clones running to target or slow-as$ projectiles

Edited September 22, 2021 by Mik.3401

[Terrorhuz.4695]

3 hours ago, TrollingDemigod.3041 said:

Chronomancer NEEDED the whole kitten rework from scratch, but a-net decided go easy way and just do some weak nerfs

> Spec offers six wells; four of them are totally unusable and one is bad. Only good skill on the right side of the screen is grav well
> There is no distortion
> There is no further access to protection\barrier\stability\leaps\cleanse\resustain either, on a light armor class
> Mesmer has to use shatters on melee range because otherwise people walk out of them; on chrono even that won't work because the pulsing damage has very low radius, so even shattering in people's face isn't gonna do anything
> Can't even really use stealth to survive because class design will work against you (remember; wells\f1 ticking will reveal you)
> Shield5 can't be casted from behind anymore, even though skills with similar effects on other classes can (eg: reaper's mark, with unblockable AoE fear and no travel time on 1200 range; arguably much better)
> Shield 4 has twice the dodging window as any other attack, as you can either dodge the phantasm summon or the phantasm attack, and the quickness trait won't affect the phantasm attack speed

I'm not even touching the traits, but if those are "weak nerfs" what's a hard nerf? Running a chronjob every 30 minutes to ban whoever logs on a mesmer?

Edited September 22, 2021 by Terrorhuz.4695

[Brimstone Jack.3462]

People would rather complain that any mechanic they lose to means the game is utterly broken and unplayable, post a million threads about it, then wonder why we don't have enough new players in this mode.

[Azure The Heartless.3261]

3 hours ago, TrollingDemigod.3041 said:

Every single Mesmers e-spec was broken from very design level, that was pure powercreep. Mirage and Chronomancer NEEDED the whole kitten rework from scratch,

 

3 hours ago, Genesis.5169 said:

Your wrong entirely

He's partially right.

Chronomancer bunker was so egregious the clone generation challenged the rendering limits of the engine.

Condi mirage was overpowered for years. While you may have felt those were balanced because a good thief could occasionally take them out, classes like warrior basically lost every mu versus them because of the nature of their class. 

Anet nerfed a bunch of things that weren't the core of the problem, but that doesn't mean the problem didn't exist or was fabricated. I fought a lot of them on war, it was harrowing. 

Quote

but a-net decided go easy way and just do some weak nerfs which more often than not just forced players to switch from one broken to another, while the whole class was still beyond broken powercreep wise.

This is where he stops being right. With the adjustments to torment and chronobunker, Chronobunker has approached balanced and so has Mirage. There's avenues to get around and beat both of them now. The nerfs were not weak to them, and their playstyles are much fairer. They originally were a problem, but balancing has caught up with them to some extent, and that's good.

3 hours ago, Genesis.5169 said:

how about YOU PLAY A MESMER before you cry to nerf it.

You're right but consider: you should have played a warrior, or one of the other countered classes vs the original mesmer variations before deciding nobody who had a negative opinion on the state of mesmer as it was had a point. That same logic can be applied to you as well. If you had even touched warrior with intent during that whole period you'd be able to see why people were upset the moment you met a mirage with more than two brain cells.

This is all besides the thread topic though.

8 hours ago, Avatar.3568 said:

Pls guys Relax

No. 

Relaxing gets us bunker meta and implicitly tells the devs that we're fine with the specs getting dropped in to the game as they are. Being whiny and mad about them might not get people the opposite, but at least at that point there will be a documented reason for why people don't pick up and play with the specs.
 

Let them be mad. 

8 hours ago, Avatar.3568 said:

buhuhuhu this elite spec is not as broken as the other where at release, even it is a beta buhuhuhu I want to do 300k krit buhuh

Just because the release is a beta doesn't mean the devs intend to change anything about the release content itself, especially if nobody says anything about it. If the devs -are- intending to scale damage values up and are only nerfing them because its a beta, they should say that up front, otherwise people will assume they feel it's fine as is.

Nobody wants to 300k crit buhuhu.

What they want is to either:

* be accurately rewarded for handling a class that imposes severe limitations on the user, yet still managing to damage their opponent, or

* do less damage but have significant combat flexibility instead.

and are getting neither of the benefits, but both of the drawbacks that would warrant those benefits. 

 

[Kuma.1503]

Beta is prime time to give valuable feedback because the further the specs move past beta, the lower the chances of seeing changes. if there is a time to be vocal it is now. 

Issues with the specs come down to more than numbers. The core philosophy behind their design is flawed. If you look at the streams CMC was more excited when talking about how he gutted each spec unecessary trade-offs than he was about discussing what each spec was supposed to accomplish. He was almost apologetic when showing off anything that looked strong. 

It's no coincidence that the specs are this weak. The flawed design behind them needs to be pointed out or the it may well take an entire expansion to fix. 

See: PvE Scrapper throughout all of PoF (up til quickness rework) 

Edited September 22, 2021 by Kuma.1503

[TrollingDemigod.3041]

56 minutes ago, Azure The Heartless.3261 said:

This is where he stops being right. With the adjustments to torment and chronobunker, Chronobunker has approached balanced and so has Mirage. There's avenues to get around and beat both of them now. The nerfs were not weak to them, and their playstyles are much fairer. They originally were a problem, but balancing has caught up with them to some extent, and that's good.

I consider these nerfs as "weak" because they never adress the root problem which is the flawed design of said e-speces.

Both Chronomancer and Mirage aren't quite a "variations" like Virtuoso is to Mesmer, but a straight upgrades in extreme directions, one going for Repeater and other going for Offense and Defense in one package. They're not Unique and doesn't really change much how you play, they just add more button presses on top of existing ones instead of changing them to be simply different.
You may argue with that they're different playstyle, but ask yourself this: does your F1-F4 skills completely change in function compared to core? Not really, they're the same, in chronomancers case they've changed them a bit how long after release? Mirage have the same skills and add just "Call ambulance but not for me" card on top of existing kit, meaning it changed nothing, but added more buttons.
Now look at Necromancer: Core = Range slow moving projectile, Reaper = Powerful Melee dmg, Scourge = completely different approach and then you have Harbinger which doesn't even know what it want to be. Point is, the gameplay for the class mechanic changes by a lot, something that doesn't happen with rest classes which is a root problem.
IMO, it doesn't matter how much they nerf it by % numbers here and there, when the design itself is simply bad.

[Halikus.1406]

You are brave OP, I will give you that lol

 

You know there is a reason why devs themselves rarely interact with their game's forums right? Because this is where ppl come to complain 9 out of 10 times. Especially the ppl that dwell on the PvP section, its a salt storm 24/7 😂

 

If you wanna leave feedback for anet that is much appreciated but dont try to do it over here, nor try to convince them to do the same. Its just not going to happen 😅

 

Edited September 22, 2021 by Halikus.1406
typo

[Sovarica.4368]

I think people are pushed to the edge fed up with the mode and these new specs have a high learning curve but you get the sense of it being frustrating because most of the cheap low effort specs will steamroll the new ones 

[ThrakathNar.4537]

15 hours ago, Kuma.1503 said:

Issues with the specs come down to more than numbers. The core philosophy behind their design is flawed. If you look at the streams CMC was more excited when talking about how he gutted each spec unecessary trade-offs than he was about discussing what each spec was supposed to accomplish. He was almost apologetic when showing off anything that looked strong.

Although it is quite funny that the class that CMC himself mains, elementalist, didn't receive any of the tradeoffs used to gut other specs, making Catalyst quite simply core ele +. It feels very much like an excuse to make a core D/D build that has access to stability. Meanwhile Willbender can't even select their traits without suffering unnecessary downsides.

 

(That's not to say Catalyst should've removed stuff from core, ele should probably receive the rev treatment and add an f5 skill to core that none of the elite specs can use).

[Grimjack.8130]

8 hours ago, ThrakathNar.4537 said:

Although it is quite funny that the class that CMC himself mains, elementalist, didn't receive any of the tradeoffs used to gut other specs, making Catalyst quite simply core ele +. It feels very much like an excuse to make a core D/D build that has access to stability. Meanwhile Willbender can't even select their traits without suffering unnecessary downsides.

 

(That's not to say Catalyst should've removed stuff from core, ele should probably receive the rev treatment and add an f5 skill to core that none of the elite specs can use).

tru catalyst is very op