How do you beat d/p daredevil?

[Arklite.4013]

I'm a fairly competent pvper (gold 2) - I typically play sidenoders. I can hold my own against pretty much anything except thief, which is supposed to be very weak in a 1v1. I struggle the most with d/p daredevil or condi builds. It feels like I can never land a hit - that the thief always has a dodge, port, stunbreak, blind, or stealth, and every other interaction I'm dazed and eating 4-5k crits. If I do manage to get an advantage, they just disengage and rinse and repeat, and I can't run becuase they'll chase me . I know they have a limited amount of resources but it feels like I'll always die before they run out of defensive tools.

 

QQ, help please

Edited October 25, 2021 by Arklite.4013

[TrollingDemigod.3041]

2 minutes ago, Arklite.4013 said:

I'm a fairly competent pvper (gold 2) - I typically play sidenoders. I can hold my own against pretty much anything except thief, which is supposed to be very weak in a 1v1. I struggle the most with d/p daredevil or condi builds. It feels like I can never land a hit - that the thief always has a dodge, port, stunbreak, blind, or stealth, and every other interaction I'm dazed and eating 4-5k crits. If I do manage to get an advantage, they just disengage and rinse and repeat. I know they have a limited amount of resources but it feels like I'll always die before they run out of defensive tools.

 

QQ, help please

That's the neat part, you don't. 
They must screw up reaaally hard to die.
Look for some sneaky "no-port" spots and hope someone will come help you with that abomination.
Don't sit 24/7 on point as well, use LoS(Line of Sight) so they won't abuse their 3rd skill and steal, which most of the time will bypass some objects cause why not. Your life is more valuable than some pepe circle. You can always fight back after they chase so you may have very slim chance of bonking them before they run away to safety.
Bring something that can either do perma blind or perma passive daze/stun like Shocking Aura to reduce their annoyance by 0.1%.
If possible do some baits here and there with stow weapon on skills like "Chilled to the Bone" so they waste evades, which in long run means nothing, but it'll give you additional 0.1% chance to survive.
If you have any AoEs that you can cast on distance then use them when you see some of theirs pistol 5 smoke circle of parents disappointment.
Learn their cooldown of Steal, this way you can predict when they'll use them, if they're uber pepega that gets carried by class, they'll spam it whenever it's off cd, like Rangers LB 4 knockback.

[Trevor Boyer.6524]

DP Daredevil is actually secretly the strongest 1v1 build in the game, at least when it comes to conquest.

IF it wants to actually stay and engage you, it may not be able to kill you as quickly as another class could, and it won't be able to hold a node during the 1v1, but over the course of an elongated amount of time, a competent DP Daredevil can just "not die" and wear you down over time until you die. You can't kill it if the DP Daredevil is good, not unless you have access to 1) reveal, 2) large DPS burst, 3) enough CC to pin it down during your burst.

Without those 3 things, Thief will win eventually. And honestly even with those 3 things, good Thieves won't stick around long enough to let you do that anyway.

Edited October 25, 2021 by Trevor Boyer.6524

[Crab Fear.1624]

44 minutes ago, Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

DP Daredevil is actually secretly the strongest 1v1 build in the game, at least when it comes to conquest.

IF it wants to actually stay and engage you, it may not be able to kill you as quickly as another class could, and it won't be able to hold a node during the 1v1, but over the course of an elongated amount of time, a competent DP Daredevil can just "not die" and wear you down over time until you die. You can't kill it if the DP Daredevil is good, not unless you have access to 1) reveal, 2) large DPS burst, 3) enough CC to pin it down during your burst.

Without those 3 things, Thief will win eventually. And honestly even with those 3 things, good Thieves won't stick around long enough to let you do that anyway.

Which is fair IMO.

[Trevor Boyer.6524]

Just now, Crab Fear.1624 said:

Which is fair IMO.

Agreed. In conquest it's all balanced.

[Crab Fear.1624]

1 hour ago, Arklite.4013 said:

I'm a fairly competent pvper (gold 2) - I typically play sidenoders. I can hold my own against pretty much anything except thief, which is supposed to be very weak in a 1v1. I struggle the most with d/p daredevil or condi builds. It feels like I can never land a hit - that the thief always has a dodge, port, stunbreak, blind, or stealth, and every other interaction I'm dazed and eating 4-5k crits. If I do manage to get an advantage, they just disengage and rinse and repeat, and I can't run becuase they'll chase me . I know they have a limited amount of resources but it feels like I'll always die before they run out of defensive tools.

 

QQ, help please

They can 1 v 1 but it takes a long time to win fights as dp dd against side nodes, and normally skill above your opponent.

 

I know in game side noders that would NEVER lose to "just another dd".

The good dd would leave.

Perhaps side node isn't your bag.

Side noding is not a noobie task.

 

 

[Genesis.5169]

They have to show eventually and u kill them in 3seconds...really its that simple lmao.

[Mik.3401]

I think you need to burst them as they are revealed and use a lot of cc. Running in circles helps too I found as it makes it harder for them to land a backstab. But yeah a good thief can be a huge trouble to anyone.

[Stand The Wall.6987]

thief being the weakest 1v1er is thief propaganda. it has some merit cuz against someone who knows how to defend against a thief, the thief takes too long to secure a kill. the flipside is they'll never die if the thief knows what they're doing.

Edited October 26, 2021 by Stand The Wall.6987

[Vancho.8750]

The only win condition you get is not dying, so you play a bunker/bruiser something since you can't kill a thief like many said.
And single professions can't win vs thief, only another thief can win by doing better rotations, the other options is for the team to strangulate the game by going full teamfight/skirmish with tankier bruiser/builds and just holding 2 nodes. There isn't some micro 1v1 thing this class counters thief you have only macro strategy by making its special place useless, so you don't let it rotate and spike people. 
That is why also there are allot of complaints of this and that being too bunker, even though everything is killable(except thief) when outnumbered and most builds are made to be able to hold out a while being outnumbered till they get help, yey teamwork. I do not seem to see builds that do 1v2 for long time like before, these days.    

[thehipone.6812]

I'm average player (mid-gold), so for whatever this is worth:  I have had reasonably good luck with core engineer build like the Alchemist shown in the video below (linking to thief fight).  If they want to run, they can run, but if you can play off of thief aggressiveness you can sometimes bait them into over committing and get a kill by stacking condis and then a well-timed knockback from shield 4 or FT3.  Lots of useful tools: good prot uptime, a few blinds, poison dart volley tracks through stealth, static shield is a nice tool if you expect a backstab,  or you can drop a bunch of ticking aoe stuff at your feet followed by spray and pray with FT or EG fumigate.   I've been taking elite elixir to moa the growing infestation of minion mancers, but moa'ing thieves is fun too.

 

 

 

Edited October 25, 2021 by thehipone.6812

[UNOwen.7132]

You cant kill a thief if he is any good. He will just run away before you can do that. But the thing is, he cant kill you either, and whenever he runs away, you basically won the fight. You kept the node, forced him to waste time, and slowed down his rotation because he had to use resources just to escape. 

[anjo.6143]

20 hours ago, Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

DP Daredevil is actually secretly the strongest 1v1 build in the game, at least when it comes to conquest.

IF it wants to actually stay and engage you, it may not be able to kill you as quickly as another class could, and it won't be able to hold a node during the 1v1, but over the course of an elongated amount of time, a competent DP Daredevil can just "not die" and wear you down over time until you die. You can't kill it if the DP Daredevil is good, not unless you have access to 1) reveal, 2) large DPS burst, 3) enough CC to pin it down during your burst.

Without those 3 things, Thief will win eventually. And honestly even with those 3 things, good Thieves won't stick around long enough to let you do that anyway.

jeez... JEEZZ....

thats why nobody play this game, ppl doesnt know a kitten about conquest, so you have 99% of kitten matches, so ugly.

If you arent a mesmer or a underskill thief and you lose 1v1 against thief, you need to practice A LOT, watch streams, read sites and guides, cause you arent good, this is a fact.
No class should be killed by a dp thief on a 1v1, but mesmer or another thief.

The results on a 1v1 against thief should be win or thief disengaging and you winning the node, simple as that.

Edited October 26, 2021 by anjo.6143

[Trevor Boyer.6524]

53 minutes ago, anjo.6143 said:

jeez... JEEZZ....

thats why nobody play this game, ppl doesnt know a kitten about conquest, so you have 99% of kitten matches, so ugly.

If you arent a mesmer or a underskill thief and you lose 1v1 against thief, you need to practice A LOT, watch streams, read sites and guides, cause you arent good, this is a fact.
No class should be killed by a dp thief on a 1v1, but mesmer or another thief.

The results on a 1v1 against thief should be win or thief disengaging and you winning the node, simple as that.

That is just not true.

I had started messing around DP Daredevil, standard build, and in about 2 days I was able to beat pretty much anyone in a 1v1 given enough time, aside from other thieves who can actually keep up with you. I'm not even a good Thief man. The reset power is just insane if you have map awareness and don't screw around.

DP Daredevil is the best 1v1 class easily. Well in conqust it is with limited gear options and the skill splits in pvp. In WvW Mirages & Soulbeast/Druid & Spellbreaker are top 1v1 roam.

Edited October 26, 2021 by Trevor Boyer.6524

[Arklite.4013]

Surprised how many people's responses to a post asking for help is to say I'm bad. Like, that's why I made a post asking for help, lol

[Axl.8924]

On 10/25/2021 at 8:46 AM, Arklite.4013 said:

I'm a fairly competent pvper (gold 2) - I typically play sidenoders. I can hold my own against pretty much anything except thief, which is supposed to be very weak in a 1v1. I struggle the most with d/p daredevil or condi builds. It feels like I can never land a hit - that the thief always has a dodge, port, stunbreak, blind, or stealth, and every other interaction I'm dazed and eating 4-5k crits. If I do manage to get an advantage, they just disengage and rinse and repeat, and I can't run becuase they'll chase me . I know they have a limited amount of resources but it feels like I'll always die before they run out of defensive tools.

 

QQ, help please

 

Daredevil often has to go in stealth to get rid of condis and daredevil is pretty vulnerable to strong condis outside of stealth. AOE condis and reveal help plus also using walls and other stuff. 

[Psycoprophet.8107]

7 hours ago, Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

That is just not true.

I had started messing around DP Daredevil, standard build, and in about 2 days I was able to beat pretty much anyone in a 1v1 given enough time, aside from other thieves who can actually keep up with you. I'm not even a good Thief man. The reset power is just insane if you have map awareness and don't screw around.

DP Daredevil is the best 1v1 class easily. Well in conqust it is with limited gear options and the skill splits in pvp. In WvW Mirages & Soulbeast/Druid & Spellbreaker are top 1v1 roam.

U serious Trevor? I recently got on ranger and after 2 days started owning everyone in 1v1's while limiting myself to just lb. See how easy that was to type, u guess whether its true or not. It's funny when players use the ol I got on the class and in short time was owning everyone argument, literally instantly discredits ur post. Thief is decent 1v1 vs classes it counters ie mes, warrior etc but is gbage vs the others, sure it can run away when pressured too much but never the less would still be at a severe disadvantage if it had stayed and battled it out. More classes than not will either beat the thief in a 1v1 or will force it to run. Why do u think for years and years thief has been relegated to +1 situations and decap vs teamfighting and side noding? If thief was such a great 1v1 they'd be the side node kings as they could defend and keep most nodes and run when outnumbered avoiding giving the other team points for its death, all teams would run thief for decapping and another 1 or 2 for side noding if they were this magical 1v1 class, but alas for years other classes have filled the teamfighting and sidenode job far better.

[crewthief.8649]

Here’s what you do:

Set a banana peel at your feet. Attach (somehow, you’ll have to figure this one out) the peel to an anvil that will fall out of the sky when the Thief slips on it, bonking them on the head. This should stun them and allow you to run through a reliable DPS rotation and down then. Good luck.

Edited October 26, 2021 by crewthief.8649

[Trevor Boyer.6524]

2 hours ago, Psycoprophet.8107 said:

U serious Trevor? I recently got on ranger and after 2 days started owning everyone in 1v1's while limiting myself to just lb. See how easy that was to type, u guess whether its true or not. It's funny when players use the ol I got on the class and in short time was owning everyone argument, literally instantly discredits ur post. Thief is decent 1v1 vs classes it counters ie mes, warrior etc but is gbage vs the others, sure it can run away when pressured too much but never the less would still be at a severe disadvantage if it had stayed and battled it out. More classes than not will either beat the thief in a 1v1 or will force it to run. Why do u think for years and years thief has been relegated to +1 situations and decap vs teamfighting and side noding? If thief was such a great 1v1 they'd be the side node kings as they could defend and keep most nodes and run when outnumbered avoiding giving the other team points for its death, all teams would run thief for decapping and another 1 or 2 for side noding if they were this magical 1v1 class, but alas for years other classes have filled the teamfighting and sidenode job far better.

Except you're speaking hypothetically to contest me.

I on the other hand, actually stream myself playing a Thief and anyone who watches can see me consistently beating every class in 1v1s, despite me being a rough around the edges Thief player at best.

But let me clear this up because your post seems as if you are slightly misdirected in what I meant with my statement:

1. I did not say the Thief was the best side node.
2. I did not say that a Thief was a good team fighter.
3. I said a DP Daredevil is secretly the strongest 1v1 build in conquest, combat mechanically wise, concerning its ability to kite & survive, infinitely reset, and keep coming back for reproaches until someone eventually messes up, and the Thief will win every time, given he has enough time to perform this 1v1 without getting +'d. <- This is true. I did not say the Thief will HOLD A NODE while doing it. I said the Thief can KILL anything 1v1, given enough time to do it. <- That is true.

Well I was going to stream some DP Daredevil today but for some reason my ISP is having connectivity issues so I guess I won't worry about that right now.

Edited October 26, 2021 by Trevor Boyer.6524

[lightDestroyer.1265]

2 hours ago, Psycoprophet.8107 said:

U serious Trevor? I recently got on ranger and after 2 days started owning everyone in 1v1's while limiting myself to just lb. See how easy that was to type, u guess whether its true or not. It's funny when players use the ol I got on the class and in short time was owning everyone argument, literally instantly discredits ur post. Thief is decent 1v1 vs classes it counters ie mes, warrior etc but is gbage vs the others, sure it can run away when pressured too much but never the less would still be at a severe disadvantage if it had stayed and battled it out. More classes than not will either beat the thief in a 1v1 or will force it to run. Why do u think for years and years thief has been relegated to +1 situations and decap vs teamfighting and side noding? If thief was such a great 1v1 they'd be the side node kings as they could defend and keep most nodes and run when outnumbered avoiding giving the other team points for its death, all teams would run thief for decapping and another 1 or 2 for side noding if they were this magical 1v1 class, but alas for years other classes have filled the teamfighting and sidenode job far better.

D/p Thief  can pretty much beat any class 1v1 given enough time.  Now to answer your question as to why it is not used as a side noder.  

The reasons are:-

1-Takes too long.  Thief can be of better use by +1ing.  A game is carried by the roamers much better than any other role. 

2- The buggest reason imo,  thief survivability is dur to staelthing and disengage blinds etc.  But,  when thief is stealthing,  they cant cap nodes,  but also get decapped.  Anybody would come decap the node and leave rather than continuing to fight the thief. 

[Psycoprophet.8107]

1 hour ago, lightDestroyer.1265 said:

D/p Thief  can pretty much beat any class 1v1 given enough time.  Now to answer your question as to why it is not used as a side noder.  

The reasons are:-

1-Takes too long.  Thief can be of better use by +1ing.  A game is carried by the roamers much better than any other role. 

2- The buggest reason imo,  thief survivability is dur to staelthing and disengage blinds etc.  But,  when thief is stealthing,  they cant cap nodes,  but also get decapped.  Anybody would come decap the node and leave rather than continuing to fight the thief. 

Any class can beat any class is skill gap is enough in fav of one class so of course thief CAN beat any class, especially if it can take all the time it needs. To ur first paragraph the fact that thief does the roam decap the best doesn't mean a second hief wouldn't be taken if it was some amazing 1v1 class like some would try and have everyone believe. To ur sec paragraph yeah stealth stops the player from capping and decapping but thief's main role is decapping, further so what if u can't cap while stealthed, if thief was as good a brawler or 1v1'r most in these forums would have u believe the thief would simply win the fight then cap, maybe while dancing cuz it was so easy to win the fight haha, and if it got outnumbered it could just run away to plus a now outnumbered node somewhere else cuz again according to these forums it's so insanely fast compared to the rest of the rosters mobility, cuz we all kno mobility isn't high in most classes since last few yrs lol.

Edited October 26, 2021 by Psycoprophet.8107

[Azure The Heartless.3261]

Assuming you dont have reveal, a tether or some other mechanic that hard counters thieves (of which a large portion of classes have access):

You need two ccs with cds lower than 45 seconds, one to put Shadowstep on cd and one to:

*Put their second stunbreak on cd, if they have chosen one 

or

*Prime them for burst.

You will know how killable the thief is after their Shadowstep is on cd. if you stun them again and they have any other stunbreak, they are a time waster and you will probably not kill them if they are good (Again, assuming you dont have a reveal somewhere. if you have a reveal in addition to this the thief is at disadvantage.) If they are a time waster, your priority is no longer killing them and is keeping them off the point. Doing so makes the matchup 4v5 or worse depending on the rest of their team effort. 

If you stun them again and they don't move, any dps oriented burst will down them.

Your priority should be landing crowd control, because as long as they can act, they can blind you. so don't throw out any bursts until you have them in a situation where they have to stunbreak or die. 

Edited October 26, 2021 by Azure The Heartless.3261

[lightDestroyer.1265]

1 hour ago, Psycoprophet.8107 said:

Any class can beat any class is skill gap is enough in fav of one class so of course thief CAN beat any class, especially if it can take all the time it needs. To ur first paragraph the fact that thief does the roam decap the best doesn't mean a second hief wouldn't be taken if it was some amazing 1v1 class like some would try and have everyone believe. To ur sec paragraph yeah stealth stops the player from capping and decapping but thief's main role is decapping, further so what if u can't cap while stealthed, if thief was as good a brawler or 1v1'r most in these forums would have u believe the thief would simply win the fight then cap, maybe while dancing cuz it was so easy to win the fight haha, and if it got outnumbered it could just run away to plus a now outnumbered node somewhere else cuz again according to these forums it's so insanely fast compared to the rest of the rosters mobility, cuz we all kno mobility isn't high in most classes since last few yrs lol.

Your comment tells me tou read my comment,  but didn't even try to understand it.  Let me address all your points:-

1-when i am talking abt thief beating 1v1, i am talking abt the same skill level. 

2-A thief wont be taken becuz,  it would lose to another thief->becuz , u guessed it "thief's role is to decap" as it is the best roamer,  while the other thief who is "duelist",  wont be able to hold and thus not perform the role of a duelist which is to cap and hold the node againat 1v1 or lose the node but keep 2 ppl on you. 

3-to your point that thief would win the 1v1 and then cap the node, refer to my previous comment point 2, where it says why the other player will  fight when he can decap and run away,  since it takes much longer to cap than decap.

4-if you are saying that thief's mobility is not that good since others also have amazing mobility,  listen i know you are hurt,  becuz you dont know how to play thief. Thief has the best mobility. It is why it is meta at the moment. 

[anjo.6143]

14 hours ago, Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

That is just not true.

I had started messing around DP Daredevil, standard build, and in about 2 days I was able to beat pretty much anyone in a 1v1 given enough time, aside from other thieves who can actually keep up with you. I'm not even a good Thief man. The reset power is just insane if you have map awareness and don't screw around.

DP Daredevil is the best 1v1 class easily. Well in conqust it is with limited gear options and the skill splits in pvp. In WvW Mirages & Soulbeast/Druid & Spellbreaker are top 1v1 roam.

 

I dont talk about wvw, I have no idea about wvw. All what I said was about conquest. 

 

If u lost a 1v1 IN CONQUEST against thief (not being a mes) you are just bad, that's all. 

 

Ps.: dont get me wrong, you just need practice and get better. 

[JTGuevara.9018]

On 10/25/2021 at 2:46 AM, Arklite.4013 said:

I'm a fairly competent pvper (gold 2) - I typically play sidenoders. I can hold my own against pretty much anything except thief, which is supposed to be very weak in a 1v1. I struggle the most with d/p daredevil or condi builds. It feels like I can never land a hit - that the thief always has a dodge, port, stunbreak, blind, or stealth, and every other interaction I'm dazed and eating 4-5k crits. If I do manage to get an advantage, they just disengage and rinse and repeat, and I can't run becuase they'll chase me . I know they have a limited amount of resources but it feels like I'll always die before they run out of defensive tools.

 

QQ, help please

Condi and CC. And also, you actually gave part of the answer in your last sentence. With those condis ticking, they will run out of defensive tools at some point. Just keep wearing it down. Combine those and that DD is lunch.