Do you think this will be the last expansion for GW2?

[TwiceDead.1963]

This one feels half-assed.

I'll reserve complete judgement till I can explore the new maps and story, but the especs don't impress.

[zealex.9410]

17 hours ago, Vayne.8563 said:

We only knew Living World was coming out. But Anet said they were going to continue the story. Is that really different?  We didn't know anything about it.

It is different, we dont know anything other than eod not being the end of gw2. They have said nothing about the content after eod or an expac 4 and neither have they given any timeframes for that content.

Pof told us there would be no break in content delivery clearly referencing the break in content delivery after hot and during hot before the start of se3 we were told work was already underway on expansion 2.

Edited November 22, 2021 by zealex.9410

[zealex.9410]

17 hours ago, Gibson.4036 said:

It’d be kinda weird in the middle of trying to sell the next expansion to spend much time talking about what’s after.

They’ve said, “there will be more.” That’s really all that makes sense where we’re at right now.

I'd be weird in a world where no mmos existed prior, its standard practice for mmos to establidh a good stream of new stuff after or before they major updates. This is the case for ff14, wow and eso to name a few.

 

Also, considering that up until a year and a half ago the playerbase had little faith to arenanet and the future of gw2 its impecable for anet to push the idea that the game has a future after eod and tell us what that future looks like.

Mmos are live service games and anet/gw2 relies on a steady stream of cash from the players, for that they require their players not to kitten off right after eod until the next expansion drops.

Edited November 22, 2021 by zealex.9410

[Vayne.8563]

12 minutes ago, zealex.9410 said:

It is different we dont know anything other  than eod jot being the end of gw2. They hae said nothing aboit the content after eod or an expac 4 and neither have they gave any timeframes for that content.

Pof told us there would be no break in content delivery clearly referencing the hreak in content delivery after hot and in hot before the start of se3 we were told work was already underway on expansion 2.

Which has nothing to do with direction per se.  Cadence and direction are completely different things. We know that this story  ends the Dragon story arc.  And we know there'll be story after. 

If someone wants  to know what the story after is, that's nothing to do with direction and everything to do with impatience. First we have to finish End of Dragons. There will be story after end of dragons, but why would we need to know what it is now? It makes no sense.

To me, the game has MORE direction than it's had in years. We know alliances are coming out, changes have been made to pips and changes are being made moving forward to WvW rewards.   We know that an expansion is coming in February that will end the dragon story arc. That is a direction.

 

We know they're introduced DX 11 something most people never expected. They're rehired two top devs. This isn't a wrap up. This is an end of the old and the beginning of the new.  

And dollars to donuts we won't have that big content draught HoT had.

[Pifil.5193]

1 hour ago, zealex.9410 said:

It is different we dont know anything other  than eod jot being the end of gw2. They hae said nothing aboit the content after eod or an expac 4 and neither have they gave any timeframes for that content.

Pof told us there would be no break in content delivery clearly referencing the hreak in content delivery after hot and in hot before the start of se3 we were told work was already underway on expansion 2.

 

That's true, the roadmap from LS3 to PoF to LS4 was announced and very well communicated. The messaging was so clear that some people assumed the pattern would continue LS to expansion to LS from then on.

But then there was no mention of the expansion after LS4 and a lot of uncertainty and debate on these forums as the LS drew to a close. Some assumed that it was so obvious that there would be an expansion there was no need to even say it. When the IBS was announced we knew that those assumptions were wrong: no more expansions, it's LS from now on.

Now we're in a similar situation of not knowing what's next? What's after the expansion? Another LS season? Another expansion? If it's another expansion then what will bridge the gap between expansions? It may seem obvious to some that a LS season will follow but nothing can be taken for granted.

I guess they don't want to spoil story right now but I think a lot of people would like to get a general idea of the "shape" of the future of GW2.

 

Edited November 22, 2021 by Pifil.5193

[zealex.9410]

2 hours ago, Vayne.8563 said:

Which has nothing to do with direction per se.  Cadence and direction are completely different things. We know that this story  ends the Dragon story arc.  And we know there'll be story after. 

If someone wants  to know what the story after is, that's nothing to do with direction and everything to do with impatience. First we have to finish End of Dragons. There will be story after end of dragons, but why would we need to know what it is now? It makes no sense.

To me, the game has MORE direction than it's had in years. We know alliances are coming out, changes have been made to pips and changes are being made moving forward to WvW rewards.   We know that an expansion is coming in February that will end the dragon story arc. That is a direction.

 

We know they're introduced DX 11 something most people never expected. They're rehired two top devs. This isn't a wrap up. This is an end of the old and the beginning of the new.  

And dollars to donuts we won't have that big content draught HoT had.

I dont want to know what the story will be i wanna knownwhen they plan to release and in what format, i also want to know that another expansion will be a thing after eod.

 

The work on wvw is great and dx11 has been fantastic however wvw means little to the pve crowd. I very strongly recall you telling ppl in the old forums how the post hot drought and raid only releases made alot of ppl quit the game and im inclined to agree, lack of other pve activities really hurt the game back then. In the same way telling me now the game has direction because wvw gets sweet talked to means nothing if pve has another 9 month drought.

I expect gw2 to continue but it will be very VERY bad if eod is followed up by a 6-9 month drought and then lw starts with no mention of another expansion.

[zealex.9410]

2 hours ago, Pifil.5193 said:

 

That's true, the roadmap from LS3 to PoF to LS4 was announced and very well communicated. The messaging was so clear that some people assumed the pattern would continue LS to expansion to LS from then on.

But then there was no mention of the expansion after LS4 and a lot of uncertainty and debate on these forums as the LS drew to a close. Some assumed that it was so obvious that there would be an expansion there was no need to even say it. When the IBS was announced we knew that those assumptions were wrong: no more expansions, it's LS from now on.

Now we're in a similar situation of not knowing what's next? What's after the expansion? Another LS season? Another expansion? If it's another expansion then what will bridge the gap between expansions? It may seem obvious to some that a LS season will follow but nothing can be taken for granted.

I guess they don't want to spoil story right now but I think a lot of people would like to get a general idea of the "shape" of the future of GW2.

 

Spoiling has very little to do with it frankly, we know eod will have strikes (5 i believe) that spoils nothing about the plot of eod.

 

In a simmilar vein announcing that 2,3 or 4 months after eod lw6 will start and that the next expac had entered production will spoil nothing of the plot.

[Vayne.8563]

10 hours ago, zealex.9410 said:

I dont want to know what the story will be i wanna knownwhen they plan to release and in what format, i also want to know that another expansion will be a thing after eod.

 

The work on wvw is great and dx11 has been fantastic however wvw means little to the pve crowd. I very strongly recall you telling ppl in the old forums how the post hot drought and raid only releases made alot of ppl quit the game and im inclined to agree, lack of other pve activities really hurt the game back then. In the same way telling me now the game has direction because wvw gets sweet talked to means nothing if pve has another 9 month drought.

I expect gw2 to continue but it will be very VERY bad if eod is followed up by a 6-9 month drought and then lw starts with no mention of another expansion.

Berfore HoT they said there wouldn't be expansions, then HOT was released.  With IBS they said there wouldn't be expansions now EoD is being released.  Even if they told you something a year out (the expansion is still months away) there's no guarantee it wouldn't change.

What difference is it if you know the format now anyway, for something that's not even out till at least a few months after an expansion that's coming in a few months. 

EoD won't be followed by a 9 month draught because ANet has already done that and learned that lesson. You don't have to believe it, but it's not going to happen.  This isn't direction you're asking about, it's security.

Edited November 23, 2021 by Vayne.8563

[Pifil.5193]

2 hours ago, zealex.9410 said:

Spoiling has very little to do with it frankly, we know eod will have strikes (5 i believe) that spoils nothing about the plot of eod.

 

In a simmilar vein announcing that 2,3 or 4 months after eod lw6 will start and that the next expac had entered production will spoil nothing of the plot.

 

Good point. The announcement that LS4 would begin 3 months after PoF told us nothing about the plot of LS4 (or of PoF for that matter).

 

I'm starting to get a bit of a "no news is bad news" vibe.

[Dark Red Killian.3946]

Anet sounds like they have a plan to continue Guild Wars 2, and by making a 3rd expansion says they will continue to make more. I think it will depend on how well EoD is received, and how well anet communicates about the future of gw2 after EoD and delivers the content that people want. In the end, only fans and contributers to the game will keep it going.

[BadSanta.6527]

I think that depend how successful this expac will be

[Thon.3780]

Imo

it is quite challenge for ANET coz all dragon already use up.

if we reviewed gw1.  The remaining possible 

1. resurrection of abaddon. ( maybe) underworld contest , realm of torment 

2. civil war

3. Replacement of new god instead of Balthazar.

4. New map and content?….. no idea coz backgrounds and world  refer to gw1  almost use up

 

 

[Mesket.5728]

Never seen a vivid and healthy game's community have so little hype and for an upcoming expansion. There is actually a lot of well argumented rejection towards it. So it is possible they think going back to the expansion model was a bad idea...

[Vayne.8563]

18 hours ago, Mesket.5728 said:

Never seen a vivid and healthy game's community have so little hype and for an upcoming expansion. There is actually a lot of well argumented rejection towards it. So it is possible they think going back to the expansion model was a bad idea...

You might not have been around before HoT. There was a tremendous amount of negativity about it.  Only 4 maps was one of the biggest, but not the only complaint.  One of the most upvoted reddit posts of all times was a post telling people not to preorder HoT.

edit: Here's a link to that reddit thread for those who need some proof

https://old.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/3a4ktf/dont_prepurchase_heart_of_thorns/

Edited November 24, 2021 by Vayne.8563

[Raolin Soulherder.3195]

depends. if it's gonna take them 4.5 more years to make the next one, some other mmo's may come out that leech away customers, possibly reducing or eliminating the financial prospects of making an another expac. 

[Ashantara.8731]

On 11/24/2021 at 8:07 AM, Raolin Soulherder.3195 said:

depends. if it's gonna take them 4.5 more years to make the next one, some other mmo's may come out that leech away customers, possibly reducing or eliminating the financial prospects of making an another expac. 

I really hope they will make enough money in the upcoming months to hire additional people for their developer team so that we can go back to quality content. With the exception of the art team which designed the environment for EoD and did a decent job at it (I don't blame them for the color choice of dragon jade, I assume it was something they were told to implement), I can't find anything so far that gives me the hope that EoD will truly be an expansion that will "blow our minds", as was repeatedly claimed during the live streams.

Edited November 25, 2021 by Ashantara.8731

[AgentMoore.9453]

I hope it's not the last expansion, even though I do have some misgivings about EoD. The alternating 'LS, Expansion, LS, Expansion' model felt like it was working, and deviating from it seems to have seriously damaged the resulting content.

At any rate, I'd appreciate even a vague roadmap of what they're hoping to do after EoD since they haven't clarified. "Don't worry guys, we'll do something!" isn't as reassuring as "We hope to go back x model if EoD does well and if not, we will continue experimenting until we find a formula that works". I understand that you can't 100% predict the future of a live service game and how you'll be packaging future content, but even a 'we want to do this' vision would feel less vague than the 'just trust us' we have from them currently.

[Mesket.5728]

7 hours ago, Vayne.8563 said:

You might not have been around before HoT. There was a tremendous amount of negativity about it.  Only 4 maps was one of the biggest, but not the only complaint.  One of the most upvoted reddit posts of all times was a post telling people not to preorder HoT.

edit: Here's a link to that reddit thread for those who need some proof

https://old.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/3a4ktf/dont_prepurchase_heart_of_thorns/

oh yeah I've been here since closed beta. I remember vaguely but I was here lol. Yet still, that discussion was more over value, price vs content delivered and the fuzz for the promo they launched charging both packages cheaper and old players ending up paying a higher value. Something like that.

We are not discussing money or amount of content now, people settled on the value. Real problem now is that it is simply bad. I don't see many post of "can't wait to play this or that!" (other than turtles). In other MMOs an expansion raise hype for the game, for me and some others it was the complete opposite feeling. Step away for a while because I don't like where this train is heading and the forums are full with negativity. There are only a few white knights remaining, even those are going extinct.

[Dami.5046]

They could do what Guild Wars Utopia would of been.

https://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Guild_Wars_Utopia

 

 

[Sirius.4510]

3 hours ago, Mesket.5728 said:

Step away for a while because I don't like where this train is heading and the forums are full with negativity. There are only a few white knights remaining, even those are going extinct.

Probably worth considering that the official forums are one of the most negative parts of the GW2 community (certainly the most I'm familiar with). Twitter, Facebook, even Discord seem more balanced. I'm not sure about Reddit, as I understand it that has its moments too. 🙂

[Mesket.5728]

29 minutes ago, Sirius.4510 said:

Probably worth considering that the official forums are one of the most negative parts of the GW2 community (certainly the most I'm familiar with). Twitter, Facebook, even Discord seem more balanced. I'm not sure about Reddit, as I understand it that has its moments too. 🙂

that is true, and it is obvious that someone enjoying the game rarely comes to the forums. But at the same time, this gets aggravated by the piles of unheard feedback. And I get it, not every feedback comes from people with a background on game design or decades of experience in MMOs but still, many of that feedback among players finds common ground on certain crucial things that are needed and those are completely ignored. Are you telling me they have some sort of genius master mind that can come up with something completely out of the box that will cover all that feedback provided while doing it completely different? Evidence says no. Thus, the negativity gets worst and worst.

[Vayne.8563]

6 hours ago, Mesket.5728 said:

oh yeah I've been here since closed beta. I remember vaguely but I was here lol. Yet still, that discussion was more over value, price vs content delivered and the fuzz for the promo they launched charging both packages cheaper and old players ending up paying a higher value. Something like that.

We are not discussing money or amount of content now, people settled on the value. Real problem now is that it is simply bad. I don't see many post of "can't wait to play this or that!" (other than turtles). In other MMOs an expansion raise hype for the game, for me and some others it was the complete opposite feeling. Step away for a while because I don't like where this train is heading and the forums are full with negativity. There are only a few white knights remaining, even those are going extinct.

Nope, there was plenty that was questioned besides value.  First there was the character slot debacle, but then the game actually launched. It was so badly received that there was an actual program by people to lower the metacritic rating by giving the game a zero after launch, due to several factors.

The grind for mastery points was one complaint. The fact you needed to unlock poison mastery to get further in the story was another. The fact that you needed every single hero point in HoT to get your elite spec unlocked was another, all these were changed.

People were excited about gliding sure, but not ravenously excited. And to be clear a whole lot of people didn't particularly want mounts in the game at all, either, until they actually saw how they worked.

My point is this community has always been really bad at picking how good or bad stuff is going to be or go before it ever starts. It's never really been a good judge. In addition to this the most vocal people are the people who are the hardest core, but the game is filled iwth mostly casual players.

 

While all these complaints were going on about HoT, my guild of 400 had very few people by percentage that were complaining or even knew about the complaints.

 

My argument is this. The only real complaint I'm hearing about PoF is that fishing isn't exciting. We have nothing exciting. But people weren't really excited about HOT, except the raiding crowd who were finally happy. They are very vocal and they shut up. I wasn't happy raids were added to the game and none of my guild really cared about them, but no one posts in my guild but me and maybe, back then, one other person.

 

HoT is popular to this day, but it's not popular because of raids or gliding. If that were the case everyone would unlock gliding and they'd be gone. Even the story of HOT most people considered rushed. I like some chapters but others were pretty bad (I'm looking at you Prisoner of the Dragons).  So at the end of the day, you have to ask yourself what makes HoT popular now that everyone has their gliding?

 

It's zone design and metas. People find the zones fun. Anet said back then they were designed to keep people playing and they've done just that. I know HoT is my favorite area of the game.  

 

Gliding and mounts are already in the game, so the building blocks to make something extraordinary are already there. We don't really know how EoD will play out, but if the zone design and the story and the meta events are all fun, no one will care in a year or two that only fishing and skiffs were introduced. 

 

On that note, the shift to positive after seeing the turtle mount exists. The general tone has been more positive. 

Anet doesn't want to give everything away and people loved to make judgements without knowing any of the actual facts. They just judge. We all do it.  I try not to but even I do it. With this company I've learned to wait and see before listening to the community.  POF had a much better launch than HoT did, but I'm pretty sure most people still consider HoT a better expansion even though everyone loves mounts.  My guess is this expansion is going to be more like HoT than POF, maybe not so much in difficulty but in design.

 

Peopl;e were mad about how the Icebrood Saga ended. That's why they're so down on the expansion. They feel that if we lost this good ending of this good content in order to get an expansion it should have been more. My counterpoint is that if the expansion came out of nowhere with no time to plan it, how was it ever going to be more?

 

But unlike a lot of people, I look at the $30 price tag, which is two months of WoW or final fantasy and I think...four new zones, new story, new elite spec, new mount, skiffs and fishing. That's worth 2 months of sub (or "optional sub") to another game for sure. Particularly if we get free stuff like Living World after it, because Season 3 added Value to HoT and Season 4 added value to PoF. I don't know about you but I didn't pay a cent for either of those.

 

On top of that, how do you think the reaction would be if Anet held off the legendary armory, the WvW alliance system and the DX 11 beta to be expansion features. Do you really think we'd hear the same comments?

[Vayne.8563]

9 hours ago, Ashantara.8731 said:

I really hope they will make enough money in the upcoming months to hire new people for their developer team so that we can go back to quality content. With the exception of the art team which designed the environment for EoD and did a decent job at it (I don't blame them for the color choice of dragon jade, I assume it was something they were told to implement), I can't find anything so far that gives me the hope that EoD will truly be an expansion that will "blow our minds", as was repeatedly claimed during the live streams.

A lot of people felt the same way about HoT.  They were wrong.

[Faridah.8431]

On 11/23/2021 at 5:18 AM, Mesket.5728 said:

Never seen a vivid and healthy game's community have so little hype and for an upcoming expansion. There is actually a lot of well argumented rejection towards it. So it is possible they think going back to the expansion model was a bad idea...

To be fair, they did not garner much positivity coming out of the disastrous handling of the second half of IBS. I think ANET has a ton to prove with EoD that they haven't completely lost their ability to world build and story tell and people in general are wary.

You can only ride the nostalgia of going back to Cantha so far in terms of building hype. At this stage we still don't know why we are going there, or really much with regards to a general story premise besides the fact that the end of the expansion will be the end of dragons. There's not much to go on here so not sure what to be hyped about yet. So far there's not really a big ticket item feature like gliding or mounts (personally not a big deal to me), the maps shown so far were very empty which does not give much to go on for gameplay, and secondarily a lot of concern over Shing Jea and Jade Sea artistic direction, and I think the elite specs have garnered kind of a meh reception. And I don't remember how far out they actually had a release date for HoT back in the day, but here it is November and all we have for EoD is "February".

Edited November 24, 2021 by Faridah.8431

[Ashantara.8731]

3 minutes ago, Vayne.8563 said:

A lot of people felt the same way about HoT.  They were wrong.

Were there live streams promoting the upcoming expansion features?