End of Dragons Elite Specialization Updates

[ASV.7819]

The siege turtle must be disabled in PvP lobby because of unfair players who uses glitches and bugs by mounting it up and ganking people in FFA arena. Also Prototype Position Rewinder must be disabled too. And fix bugged stairs in arena, where people stuck if they use the entranse.

[Saucy.1547]

QoL Suggestion:
Give Beta characters a Legendary armor and weapons set with selectable stats and selectable runes/sigils. Make this only available to Beta characters. Why clog up inventory with hundreds of items. Currently you need to delete the character and make a new one after creating the 2nd or 3rd gear set ; depending on if you want the same runes. Its just a waste of time. This will also incentivize players to go after Legendary armors and weapons once they have a taste of the convivence. 

 

Class Impressions:

Virtuoso without Clones is playing Mesmer on extreme hard mode. Virtuoso finally feels like a great power version of Mesmer but has little to no open world sustain without clones as distractions. Please revert to the previous EOD Beta Virtuoso that had clones and no shatters. I think this really plays into the class identity.

 

Vindicator Revenant updates felt much better during the limited testing I did. Not cycling between Kurzik and Luxon allowed for much better gearing. I don't play Revnenant  often so its hard for me to judge the dps compared to other builds. I heard from a guild member that play exclusively Revenant it felt good but isn't going to be the next condi Herald. Nothing much more to say here.

 

Unleashed Rangers felt very tanky this time in celestial or trailblazer gear which was a nice change. The Unleased ranger did not feel like it had enough single target power with a hammer in berserker gear. I suggest hammer damage be increased by 150%.  The new unleashed skills for multiple weapons was a nice addition. Initially I wanted every weapon skill to be unleased for non hammer but latter appreciated just the single use 1st skill. The Unleashed mechanic is a pain to manage between the pet and the ranger. The unleashed skills on the pet keep the pet from using its unique abilities and I had to keep the ranger unleashed the majority of the time only unleashing the pet for short burst. The pet unleashed skills need to either be Cantrips to barrier the pet or Beast skills to add synergy to the Beastmaster talents. The hammer skills unleashed feel worse than the base hammer skills and I often had to unleash the pet just to take advantage of skill 3 and 5 for knock down and daze. Consider changing the unleashed ability to unleash the ranger and pet together simultaneously with the 1s cooldown (this would essentially be a burst damage mode or alternate skills with separate skill cooldowns).  This still needs some work but Unleashed felt viable this time on the tanky side but didnt feel like it offered enough dps to play over current dps Ranger builds (i.e. viable for solo roaming builds or complicated pvp builds that rely on hit and run melee tactics using non hammer weapons). The other issue with Rangers are split between condition damage and power builds. To benefit from a the unleashed pet skills the ranger needs more condition damage however the hammer is pure power build. This could be remedied by having a condition or power version of the pet unleashed skills based on rangers stats; based on whichever is higher the ranger's condition stat or power stat.

 

Mechanist is OP still. The elite skill is still very much reserved for reviving the mech. You have to wait for the mech leaving animation to finish before resummoning the mech with the elite skill; otherwise the result in simply putting the elite skill on CD for 60s without any benefit. The Jade Buster portion of the elite skill is only used in extreme dmg situations like a world boss where the is no real risk of losing the mech, or for fun in open world where again there is no real risk of losing the mech. The mechanist has so many knockback options its a force to be reckoned with on its own. The mechanist condition dmg was tuned down to about the right point so that a celestial geared, pistol wielding build doesnt put out too much dps, instantly killing veteran monsters in the open world. A celestial geared mechanist using a mace and shield was plenty capable soloing overpulls in dungeons without a mech. Where this specialization feels like it fails is dealing with heavy condition damage and lack of reflects, but that can be easily remedied by partnering with a Specter, Guardian (take your pick), or Revenant.  

 

Catalyst Elementist feels worse this beta, much more on hard mode than before with far lower dmg, that was already subpar in open world. Previously the Catalyst was viable by keeping distance swapping between air and fire in open world; while cycling through earth and water for the skill 3 buffs. This time it felt like like nothing would die in Viper gear, and the Catalyst was to weak to take a hit unless it was in toughness gear. The Catalyst dps on a target dummy was decent in both betas but not something that is possible outside of a raid/world boss environment. In practice the new Catalyst build as tuned now can be very tanky in toughness based gear but puts out very little dmg (expect to fail events because you didn't get the job done in time). Having to be close for hammer skills means the Catalyst needs to be able to take a hit but if that costs all your dmg then you are better off playing a different version of elementist. Catalyst damage needs to be doubled or more to be viable in open world where you are constantly on the move. Consider just deleting the ground based elemental buff zones or make them a selectable 5th attunement buff on the character instead. Currently the Catalyst is just not fun to play compared to other classes. 

 

I didnt have a chance to play the retuned Harbinger Necro or Bladesworn warrior before beta time ran out. Everything I heard about Bladesworn  from guild members was positive so I assume the new gunblade mechanic was much more viable this time in open world. 

 

The Willbender Guardian felt like a shadowstep based version of firebrand without the axe dps. Ultimately a pure power Willbender version did not feel like it put out enough dps compared to fire dmg based Guardian builds. The Willbender condition builds did not offer enough condition abilities to really make that playstyle viable over core guardian or Firebrand. The animation updates felt very good this time and I would consider the character playable. Ultimately I geared and played like a Core Guardian or Firebrand using a sword/torch combo primarily. The part that felt unique were the shadowsteps which made me feel like I was playing a mesmer or thief. Great for roleplaying but the new class specific off hand sword weapon is a bust. Consider a huge physical dps buff or burst skill for off hand sword instead of a block (maybe something like a mesmer sword skill 2 with a heavy physical burst and evade mechanic). The offhand block skill feels out of place like the character should be dodging away, shadow stepping or evading instead to keep the playstyle fluid. The block option on the heal skill feels like all the block option that is needed (although it feels weak compared to dodging and using the standard guardian heals instead).

 

Specter felt very underwhelming this time in the dps department. Maybe I didn't gear it the same or talent the same. I felt like I couldn't get much more than 20 torment stacks versus the 35 I could last beta (I also felt like the scepter/pistol skill 3 was less spammy this time, again could have been choices on my part or a class tune) . Specter with Torment Runes will certainly be an option going forward but its so uniquely single target I would rather play Deadeye. On the flip side the healing and barrier options to support team members are amazing. You can pretty much turn a glass cannon friend into an unstoppable killing machine. The support build is great in pvp and pve. Just don't expect to open world solo as a Specter often (maybe if you are going to self buff and run through bad things as a utility option 🙂 ). The previous Beta tune and the final Beta tune of this class are sort of a wash for me; both felt about the same in practice for the average player. 

 

Edited December 6, 2021 by Saucy.1547

[anna.5487]

On 11/26/2021 at 3:45 AM, Avatara.1042 said:

Virtuoso ad Catalyst need a lot of help to make them viable, but the Willbender is completely different.  It already has super-powerful utility and alacrity.

Seems so, yes, all boons etc. It's more appealing probably to main guardians though. And I still find the damage a little lacking. Probably main guardians could do with.

[Avatara.1042]

2 hours ago, anna.5487 said:

Seems so, yes, all boons etc. It's more appealing probably to main guardians though. And I still find the damage a little lacking. Probably main guardians could do with.

Guardians are extremely spoiled.

[SStelter.4712]

This is 100% Spvp feedback, I barely took any of these classes outside of the mists.

 

Catalyst is 100x more enjoyable than the first beta, big props. Hammer is such a confused weapon, it really either needs to be mid ranged or melee. The reason why the other elementalist weapons feel so good is because each attunement shares the same range, having 2 attunements that are closed range and 2 that are mid ranged does not feel good. Traits need a pass over, you have a ton of mechanics going on with catalyst and this is an easy place to differentiate builds. Adept could be about energy generation, Master could be about your Jade fields, Grandmaster could be about Elemental empowerment. Tie auras, attunement swapping, disables into these but give the tiers some kind of structure. Also can we get a trait for our new Augment skills?

 

Mechanist was still very enjoyable, and while I enjoyed more control over the robot punch with mace, I really wish you could access it with other weapons. I have very little complaints honestly, the power version was great to follow up my cc and the extra burst was very noticeable. I think that my main problem was how strong the ranged mech is over the melee one, maybe giving the melee ones a teleport on their Adept trait like the untamed pet would be a good idea. Kits and Signets felt very necessary to use but I'm 100% ok with that, a lot of the other EoD skills have been extremely weak.

 

Willbender is a lot more fun, but I still don't see how I'm supposed to keep people in my flames. Maybe add some way to continually make flames? Like Justice creating new flames when you proc the burn, or Resolve creating new flames after shadow stepping? In pvp the current set up is just not going to see any value. Offhand sword felt terrible, and I dropped it almost immediately. No problem with the traits, though the courage Grandmaster one seems terrible. I would like to see the lines structured more like the virtue tree though, so we could get a trait for Physical skills (which really aren't that great imo, Whirling light and Flash combo were the only two I ever felt were worth a skill slot.)

 

Virtuoso is much better from beta 1 and one that feels the most well put together. Condi Virt is 100% carried by the illusion trait line, getting those massive confusion stacks felt amazing. Dom works so well with the vulnerability you get from Bladesongs. I only wish that Dueling would get some love soon because it has been neglected for so long. Dagger was good but boring, I found myself dropping it for something more defensive. Bladesongs are in a tricky spot, most of them feel very good with quickness, but you often times accidently cancel them, and being unable to shatter without a target is also a trade off. Bladeturn requiem duration needs to scale with blades because trading distortion for this is garbage. Trait wise, the middle trait line felt weak, the top felt strong, and the bottom felt ok. I can't see you ever not taking Psychic riposte because unblockable is 100% required for this class to function and should definitely be tied to a minor trait. Psyonic skills need a trait and also felt weak. Mesmer desperately needs more access to condi clear, kill two birds with one stone and make it happen with these skills.

 

Harbinger's blight system is a great success, I had a lot of fun doing the blight shuffle, though I am sad it seems like you 100% some elixirs to control the class mechanic. Elixirs felt tons better, their tooltips are an absolute mess but their dual function as attack and support is great. The biggest issue with this specialization is that it's only defense has been stripped away and replaced with nothing, healing when you enter harb shroud or healing over time (idk why you removed this) needs to happen; maybe make it scale with the blight threshold? Pistol was good, felt like a mix of dagger and scepter, a viable choice for condition builds. I like how the trait lines are organized, and my only feedback is that the quickness grandmaster is the strongest by far. I don't know what you could replace it with, but it feels like a copy pasta of the reaper GM. Survivability aside, Harbinger was a lot of fun, looking forward to seeing more changes.

 

Untamed was a blast, brought me right back to playing double tail swipe builds with zephyr on swap. So glad to see the unleashed mechanics work with other weapons, though the current implementation with the 10 sec cd felt really hard to weave. Maybe make the unleashed swap cd longer while making the ambush skills match that. Trait lines are good, though I felt the disable traits kind of weak in comparison to the ambush skills traits. The middle trait line felt good too, except for Restorative Strikes. Changing it to siphoning health or heal overtime when unleashed would bring it up to the same power as the others. Hammer felt great, it was such a good feeling to weave in unleashed and normal hammer skills together. Cantrips with the barrier trait actually were useable, with only Forest Fortification feeling like it had too long of a cooldown. I love being able to directly control my pets abilities and my only complaints are having new key binds for directing your pet and how button intensive this class is. Have the option to set pet skills on auto cast would go a long way to alleviating the piano playing.

 

Specter needs work, i think the concept is good but the execution is not. Scepter being the only weapon that can target allies means you're completely locked out of the mechanic if you're not running Scepter or even if you're stuck waiting for weapon swap. I know it's a lot of work but giving the ally target mechanic to every dual wield (or ambush) skill would go a long way to making this feel feel cohesive. Shroud felt great, I assume you're supposed to go into it after you've spent your initiative. I like the well concept, though I feel like only Well of Gloom, Silence, and Shadowfall are worth taking (in pvp). Scepter was very strong, probably overtuned, the amount of damage and barrier you can dish out is insane atm. Trait wise, The adepts are mostly in line with one another, Consume shadows felt the most impactful in most fights. Dark Sentry is very powerful, I just wish other weapons could give barrier to allies. All of the Grandmaster traits are extremely powerful in their own way, with Strength of Shadows being the only offensive option. The trait line definitely needs some ordering, you have a lot of mechanics here that could neatly be separated into Adept, Master, and Grandmaster lines. Shadow shroud, Barrier, Shadow stepping, Siphoning, Torment, Wells, and Rot wallow venom.

 

Bladesworn feels a lot worse than beta 1, I think most of it is just numbers, but you're trading your burst skill for a very clunky weapon that doesn't do much and forced to stand motionless in pvp (which is suicide). #1, Gunsabre should be very powerful, it should hit hard while also applying some burning. Cyclone Trigger should just be a block that you can reactivate for a large explosion. Break Step should be an evade. #2, Gunsabre and it's skills have a large amount of explosion tags, but there's absolutely nothing in the traits that interacts with it. #3, Flow feels a lot worse than adrenaline and there should be more ways to generate it. Most of the Armament skills felt very weak, and only Tactical Reload felt impactful. They should probably all be explosions so they can benefit from an Explosion trait. Pistol was meh, Dragon's roar was interesting but I tossed it for shield. Dragon Trigger skills were hard to land and felt much weaker than just a normal burst skill. Force distance should scale with how long it's charged. Boost caused me endless headaches with terrain difference, just make it teleport behind your enemy and deliver a slash between your starting point and your current position. Reach needs to travel much faster if it's ever going to be useful. Trigger guard should give more stacks of aegis depending on your charge. Flicker Strike should also give you quickness, duration based on charge. I like the trait line set up, Adept should be all about flow generation. Master should be all about EXPLOSIONS, granting boons, applying burns, dealing additional damage, applying vulnerability. Grandmaster should be all about dragon trigger. Unyielding dragon is by far the strongest, I personally liked Daring Dragon, Immortal dragon felt terrible and should be changed into some other form of defense.

 

Vindicator felt great, even though I miss the auto swapping skills. Most of the class felt overtuned number wise, Greatsword was dealing insane damage with low investment, Dodge heal was massive even minimal healing power. The Dodge mechanic was fun, though the feedback from my duel partners was that they wished there was more difference between dodge types. Honestly, the most polished of all the EoD specs, it fits into many different playstyles, every skill has it's use, the traits are competitive and ordered well. Great job Anet.

[Kleshr.7358]

On 11/24/2021 at 1:12 PM, Lucinellia.9247 said:

 

It is a massive shame that this is the solution you opted for from the feedback that was provided with respect to support Specter.

 

Without quickness, PvE support Specter has no real use because the 10 person alacrity provided by Renegade and Mirage in 10 person content is too strong and Renegade remains far, far too useful in Fractals.

 

Support Specter needed to offer both quickness and alacrity in order to see a degree of play in either of these game modes because it does not provide sufficient other boons. This is a hugely disappointing change that really feels like you didn't bother to consider the changes of Specter in relation to what other elite specs can offer.

 

Worryingly, you've also not addressed the concerns people have expressed with single targeting of allies at all. Absolutely no mention of UI changes or such or even an acknowledgement that this is the most awkward part of support Specter. Couching the changes in the language of 2v2 gameplay is also very odd - this is an off-season gameplay mode in one area of the game. How does this single target healing supposedly work now in raids or Fractals? A Specter is still going to be wanting to target allies and apply Endless Night due to the strength relative to other (single target) heal skills.

 

If you want builds such as Willbender, Specter and Mechanist to see any play with alacrity sharing, you need to remove 10 person alacrity from both Mirage and Renegade if Willbender, Specter and Mechanist cannot also provide quickness, as per current Chronomancer (which already doesn't see much play as alacrity and quickness because 10 person alacrity is that good) .

 

I want to piggyback on this.

 

I play and main a renegade because of how essential it is in both Raids and Fractals. Do I want to? No. I'm not into the class theme, im not into the concept, I don't like how the legend systems work, and I am sick of feeling like I can't play other classes because other classes don't have the same level of sheer support value as Renegade with its perma 10-man alacrity, swappable roads/spot DR. It takes serious time investment to setup all the armor sets, the build templates just to provide this level of coverage across game modes and still have time to enjoy the game for myself in open world and pvp so I'm discouraged from playing other classes I like more thematically or gameplay wise. I can't even find enjoyment in classes that I find thematically/conceptually enjoyable because *they just feel so much less effective and less equipped in comparison*

 

HONESTLY? I feel like alacrity would be best removed from the game entirely. The people that know about its value and put effort into including it in their party/composition typically know how to maintain its uptime, which COMPLETELY changes game mechanics, individual class dynamics, etc in game modes like Raids and Fractals where it's mainly being leveraged. These people are playing a very different game, with almost different classes given how huge the rotation changes are with alac uptime. If it was removed, then balancing around Raid and Fractal content would be more predictable/consistent, and the content would actually be harder as originally intended before the power creep when alac was ripped from mesmers and given to revenants of all things. This introduces a degree of inflexibility in the meta PERMANENTLY and is why Renegade + Firebrand are almost dang essential in PVE content across the game. Just because Mesmers were OP due to alac doesn't mean moving alac somewhere else fixes the problem. Now all those classes that have alac end up being the focus of meta composition and inclusion. STOP IT.

 

My T4 fractal team tried to experiment with different support setups. I went ventari renegade once, realized I couldn't heal at all in underwater fractals and got pissed, then during our night realized how essential access to quickness on top of alacrity was- So quickbrand or a quickness scrapper had to be added to the party, which was far less effective than just going Healbrand + Alacrigade as the heal+dps/support duo due to loss of other tools like stability, DR, protection and life leech. DOES THIS NOT ALARM ANY GAME DEVELOPERS/DESIGNERS? The game experience is significantly different with different support/healer setups to the point where the enjoyability/smoothness is hugely impacted which makes class and character inclusion/choice feel VERY forced. Why can't we be running tempest healers, ventari healers, scrapper healers, scourge healers with the same efficacy in fractals and raids? oh wait- we need access to alac and Healbrand mantras post-patch have been them so stupidly OP with how instantaneous they can poop out healing/cleanse that absolutely nothing else compares or holds a candle to it, and the party STILL needs alacrity.

 

I don't think people understand HOW IMPORTANT that 99% alac uptime is. I've been in T4 pugs that literally can't clear fractals when the renegade is a new player and has less than 60% uptime. It makes entire boss fights feel like an entire difficulty harder. Its like making a Tier 2 fractal feel like a Tier 4. Other classes... just stop working when stuff isn't coming off cooldown in time and it causes a cascading effect of non-uptime of everyone else's inherent support/output.

 

If the game didn't have alacrity, you'd have less shoehorn effect with the class meta. When you guys originally designed this game, it was about "dont bring the class, bring the player" and here you guys are realizing the pain you've introduced in having to balance around the reneg of that design philosophy. Now it's worse. Now everyone realizes how stupid valuable alac and quickness are and viability of an espec is being discussed entirely in terms of whether that spec has access to that boon or not, and the ability to provide 5 or 10 man coverage with full uptime. This is ridiculous! It's no longer even "dont bring the class, bring the player" its "don't bring the class or the player, just bring the boon"

 

You guys already did a major overhaul on the boon system in the march patch. Why not just kill all of alacrity too, and then make the classes viable for what they are and tune them to the content without making them a shoehorned alacrity vending machine and worrying about what specs get access to alacrity and/or quickness?

 

or why not just combine quick+alac into a new boon called superspeed, and make it accessible across all classes and just tune/balance the boon duration accessibility so you can control the tradeoffs easier without worrying about a class becoming too OP with having little to no tradeoffs? (such as Celestial Condi RR Renegades doing 100% alac uptime solo with full blown condi DPS performance?) if these boons are seen as essential to the game culture overall?

 

Sometimes I feel like ArenaNet just doesn't play their own game and realize how restrictive the balance actually is. It ruins the idea that I could be playing a class that I like- because I just can't. We need the other core supports all the time and it just feels crappy because its like "someone has to do it!"

 

Scourge, Firebrand, and Renegade dominate the PvE field, and for good reason. Make things viable by devaluing access to specific boons which is quickly becoming the meta defining mechanic of the game. It's gross. I wish I could just walk away from Revenant and play something like Warrior, Engineer, or Mesmer that actually fits my interests but I can't because OF A SINGLE STUPID BOON THAT IS SO OVER-VALUED AND GAME BREAKING THAT IT IMPACTS THE ENJOYABILITY AND ROLEPLAYING ASPECT OF YOUR ROLEPLAYING GAME.

 

 

Edited December 8, 2021 by Sheobix.8796

[Rellyk.9467]

On 11/23/2021 at 12:45 PM, Fire Attunement.9835 said:

Thief - Specter

We saw a lot of eagerness for the addition of a support specialization to the Thief. Beta 3 generated a lot of excellent buildcraft and discussion, and we've begun tuning the Specter for an appropriate debut in End of Dragons.

Key pieces of feedback that we identified were:

1) Consume Shadows was causing Shadow Shroud to feel like something you should enter, and then immediately exit, to get Consume Shadows' healing effect as quickly as possible. This diminished the utility and fun of the Shroud skills themselves, as it was a strong reason to never use them.

Specific changes made in response to this feedback: The maximum potential healing and barrier from Consume Shadows will now grow stronger for every second you are in Shroud, up to 5 seconds. In Shadow Shroud itself, the skill Dawn's Repose has been changed from a dash into a ground-targeted leap, to make it easier to target a specific location, and is now a leap finisher.

2) Endless Night, by affecting three targets, was creating expected gameplay of manually selecting and 'rotating' between different targets in a group, in order to sustain quickness on multiple targets. This isn't very fun to do.

Specific changes made in response to this feedback: We'd rather not have Specter able to strongly cover both Alacrity and Quickness for groups, and so have decided to focus on the Alacrity aspect. Endless Night has been adjusted to only target one ally. This may maintain a strong all-around support role for a focused target in certain gameplay, such as 2v2 PvP or playing with a friend in the open world, while allowing Specter to still fill healing and alacrity support roles for group play.

You guys are worried about Thief having too strong a support spec? You are aware Firebrands exist, right?  I don't want to see FB nerfed, I'd just like for Specter to be viable choice for support instead.

 

Some notes on your changes:

 

1) Making the shroud less powerful will not solve the problem.  The main reason that people would dip out of it right away is that for the most part, it's weaker than what you can provide while out of it.  It's also not very fun with the new changes.  Now it feels like you're being punished by having to stay in shroud to get Consume powered up.  If you want people to use the shroud, then it needs to be worth using for itself, not just as something you have to sit through to get what you want.

 

2) Endless Night.  Let me be very clear. 2v2 is maybe 1% of game modes.  Specter needs strong support if it's going to be a viable alternative for raids/fractals/wvw/pvp etc.  As it stands, there is no reason to bring one over any other support.  They're not even remotely close to firebrands for literally every game mode.  For pve, druids bring healing, cc, loads of might, and the unique spirits.  Healscourges have tons of barrier, superb res utility, and lots of other specials.  In pve, Alacrens will still be kings of alacrity.  WvW, this doesn't come close to the utility a support scrapper brings, with gyros, healing, cleansing, stealth and more.  Even in a 2v2 situation, you could bring just about any other class and do just as well, if not better, than a Specter.

 

TLDR - Thief support needs to be strong, otherwise there will continue to be little to no reason to bring a Thief.  Stop being afraid of letting this class actually do something well.

[Loboling.5293]

(Copied from another thread, as I feel it captures my feelings on the specs well enough for the devs to work on)
So for me, I had the most fun running around the open world with Virtuoso, but I also enjoyed bladesworn. I didn't bother doing any pvp or wvw, however I could see some of the design flaws, and I went into the heart of the mists to test the pvp damage of the various elite specs. 

Harbinger: Like others have said, while I really appreciate an attempt to make more interaction with blight, I found the spec more fun during the previous beta. I think if they are to remove the defense hp of shroud or not have spammable barrier, they need to accept that harbinger needs more mobility. I also miss the health regen, but I can see why it's gone. But blight needs to have more payoff, and there should be more mobility.

 

Catalyst: Just kind of meh. I really don't like the design of this class. 

 

Untamed: Felt like too much to do, fun, but not my cup of tea. I'll leave this for younger chickens. 😜

 

Specter: Adds something special for thief. 

 

Mechanist: Fun, and I like the new teleport. I'm not much into pet classes, but I can see the alure.

 

Willbender: Probably my new favorite guardian spec. Could use some tuning, better mobility, and some better sustain options. Still lots of fun to play.

 

Vindicator: Very smooth in open world, just non-stop one shotting things around me. Much better than previous beta. 

 

*Bladesworn: It's still got some big issues related to traits, cooldown timers, stowing weapons, swap gunblade cooldown, and activating dragonslash from your primary weapon. However, I found the spec, after a bunch of practice to be quite a lot of fun. I'm still sad with the design decisions for bladesworn, as I don't think warrior needed this. But I do enjoy the gameplay loop in open world pve. Needs a lot of QoL fixes that will allow for more buildcraft and versatility. Which will bring it into pvp at least. 

 

*Virtuoso: Just fun. It's a bit too single target for my tastes, even if it's not really limited that way. But going between groups of mobs and just blowing them up is a ton of fun. It really feels like an upgraded core mesmer that trades convenience and higher damage for less defense. My new favorite open world mesmer build. (Along with Willbender, who became my new favorite open world guardian build)

[Puck.3697]

On 12/3/2021 at 6:36 AM, Shaogin.2679 said:

I was holding off on this expansion but after the last beta weekend I was ready to purchase and all in ready to play Mechanist. But already I see you buffing up Guardian yet again and nerfing Engineer. I'm so done with playing second fiddle to kittening Guardians. If this is the route you're going to go, then I am kittening done.

Woah there.

Guardian alacrity requires 2 trait lines mandatory has a massive issue upholding it in realistic situations and ontop of that isn't 100% uptime. 

If you want the answer to your question: it's simple. 

Willbender conflicts with the core proffession design I.E it don't work properly. Open world it's a downgrade, raids it may become a good choice as it does slightly more damage then DH aslong as that stays and in PvP it's pretty bad due to having a front loaded playstyle with backloaded damage. 

The likelyhood is. Alacrity is a easymode quick fix that gives willbender a reason to exist as the core problems are pretty large. 

However on the other side. 

If mechanist is the reason your buying the expansion DONT.  

AI has never been good in gw2 and mechanist will pay for the fact Anet don't like pet proffessions having a pet that can do any level of dps. Mechanists best opportunity is being a alac/barrier bot realistically. 

However. I assure you I wouldn't feel threatened by willbender 😂 firebrand will retain the optimal choice for guardian unless they do something drastic to change that.

Alacrity willbender defintly ain't that tho. 

 

 

 

[Kleshr.7358]

Again, imo they should delete Alacrity from the game.

 

Trying to solve problems they created themselves with how it impacts gameplay, difficulty, and class viability.

[Infusion.7149]

7 minutes ago, Kleshr.7358 said:

Again, imo they should delete Alacrity from the game.

 

Trying to solve problems they created themselves with how it impacts gameplay, difficulty, and class viability.

Are you a thief player?
That's just about the only class not highly affected by alacrity. It would be an extreme nerf to weavers for example.

[Kodama.6453]

22 minutes ago, Infusion.7149 said:

Are you a thief player?
That's just about the only class not highly affected by alacrity. It would be an extreme nerf to weavers for example.

We have to admit that alacrity might hold too much power, tho. The CD reduction has huge impact, not only on the dps of the entire squad, but the effectiveness of literally everything. CC, healing, boon uptime, alacrity just makes everything your squad does better.

Maybe not downright delete alacrity, but it has an extreme impact on the performance of a team and generally is the most powerful boon in the game...

[Infusion.7149]

10 minutes ago, Kodama.6453 said:

We have to admit that alacrity might hold too much power, tho. The CD reduction has huge impact, not only on the dps of the entire squad, but the effectiveness of literally everything. CC, healing, boon uptime, alacrity just makes everything your squad does better.

Maybe not downright delete alacrity, but it has an extreme impact on the performance of a team and generally is the most powerful boon in the game...

No it isn't. Try playing without quickness compared to without alac *. Given many people attack on auto half the time quickness is far more powerful in PvE. Also alacrity is literally a non-issue in PVP/WVW because the people that play alac ren are meme-ing and if you play alac mirage in WVW/PVP you're clearly doing it wrong as one dodge side mirage uses staff only as a defensive option with might gain.

Also alacrity was nerfed TWICE already , it dropped from 66% recharge reduction to 33% and then to 25%. If the point was to make it a mesmer specific thing with no boon duration modifiers (it used to require wells , continuum split, shield on chrono, and heavy skill usage) sure but just to nerf it again makes zero sense.

It would make more sense to nerf quickness effectiveness in competitive modes because some skills are balanced off cast times. Even then it isn't warranted after Feb 2020 nerfs across the board and the quickness uptime outside of scrapper in WVW is not great ; Firebrand mantra of solace in PVP is more or less unusable with the 200 heal it has currently.

* If you disagree with this, go look on LFG , people look for alac/DPS (no Banner anymore for fractals post exposed change) it is never quickness or DPS.

Edited December 12, 2021 by Infusion.7149

[Emberheart.8426]

3 hours ago, Infusion.7149 said:

Are you a thief player?
That's just about the only class not highly affected by alacrity. It would be an extreme nerf to weavers for example.

Sure it will impact weaver a lot, but I would love to dream about a world where they balance ele without having to take alacrity into account. In the long term it would be way better.

[mongo.7856]

In pvp willbender needs a bit of work.

My thoughts are in the feedback thread.

 

[Avatara.1042]

It is extremely obvious that the Catalyst was created by throwing random ideas at it, and seeing what barely stuck.  The overhaul between betas shows this clearly.

[Trepidation Lost.3469]

Imagine making a beta and then not giving those beta characters stat select gear 😂

imagine not giving them access to all sigils and runes…

imagine …

oh wait, that is exactly what happens and means it’s not a realistic representation of the classes on release.

 

simple things like this anet. Really simple things.

[Anthony.8056]

They spoke about breaking the rules with this set of specializations but maybe the rules shouldn't have been broken. 

[DemonCrypto.6792]

one question for anet:
Who asked for a third dps e-spec for war ?
(yes spellbreaker can do more but pve role are what they are for war -dps or banners)

Seriously we're in dpsland since the start, if they really broke the rule why not this one .
i'am really interested for a real answer , I know theme wise bladesworn fit with cantha but theme isn't gameplay and here it's not good (static rooting war was a problem then and will be a problem now)

Anyways pleasant game to all 

[Dadnir.5038]

20 minutes ago, DemonCrypto.6792 said:

one question for anet:
Who asked for a third dps e-spec for war ?
(yes spellbreaker can do more but pve role are what they are for war -dps or banners)

Seriously we're in dpsland since the start, if they really broke the rule why not this one .
i'am really interested for a real answer , I know theme wise bladesworn fit with cantha but theme isn't gameplay and here it's not good (static rooting war was a problem then and will be a problem now)

Anyways pleasant game to all 

You probably shouldn't look at e-specs with such restricted point of view. E-spec aren't "DPS", "Tank" or "Support". The e-specs can all be used in a variety of way (albeit some perform better in some specific roles than other). The warrior e-specs that you qualify as "DPS" spec have been mainly used for support since HoT release (and, like berserker and spellbreaker, Bladesworn can capitalize a lot on some of the core "support" potential).

It's not that I don't understand where you're coming from but keep in mind that what make a support is the build, not the e-spec.

I'm personally more bothered by the gameplay of the bladesworn which isn't really fit for the pace of the PvP environment than by it's seemingly lack of support. (I also hate the idea of a "gunsaber". They could have gone with a 2h axe/spear/trident which would have given some fresh air to the game instead of coming up with yet another greatsword)

[Dawanarth.4601]

7 minutes ago, Dadnir.5038 said:

The warrior e-specs that you qualify as "DPS" spec have been mainly used for support since HoT release (and, like berserker and spellbreaker, Bladesworn can capitalize a lot on some of the core "support" potential).

I think he mean it as: Even with the 3 espec, the only Support Warrior build is still Banner, while what would have been great would have been some support utilities or a way to offer a good support but without being relegated to Banners

[Dadnir.5038]

27 minutes ago, Dawanarth.4601 said:

I think he mean it as: Even with the 3 espec, the only Support Warrior build is still Banner, while what would have been great would have been some support utilities or a way to offer a good support but without being relegated to Banners

You seem to forget that shouts and warhorn exist. Point is that while not optimal, there is more than "banner" in the warrior support kit (Banners main value being that they provide unique buffs that no other profession can compete on providing; which is the "valuable" kind of buffs).

Objectively, the warrior can easily provide perma might (of course), fury, swiftness, vigor. It also have quite a lot of wide area condi cleanse as well as some barrier/healing. Tons of "unique" buffs (toughness, vitality, power x2, condition, precision, concentration, ferocity, healing power, 25% extra damage an next few hits). Spellbreaker add boon removal/condicleanse to this support and bladesworn offer some projectile hate.

It might not feel much as most of the time the playerbase ignore all those but, nonetheless, the PvE benchmarks always take into account a banner warrior (and those benchmarks would be much lower without the warrior's support benefit).

It's not because the warrior don't have the "highly though out" boons that make other players' eyes shine with million stars that he lack support with any of it's e-spec (and to be fair, with how widespread quickness and alac are becoming, the warrior's support might very well become more and more thought out for "optimised" parties).

[Obtena.7952]

On 12/20/2021 at 3:15 AM, Dawanarth.4601 said:

I think he mean it as: Even with the 3 espec, the only Support Warrior build is still Banner, while what would have been great would have been some support utilities or a way to offer a good support but without being relegated to Banners

Someone is going to have to explain why this is a problem in the first place. First, that's not really true (warrior supports in other ways that aren't just banners) and second, don't assume that if more support features were added, it would affect people's desire to have banner warriors in their teams. 

Edited December 21, 2021 by Obtena.7952

[Jski.6180]

I find catalyst still lacking with out a dmg to effect as we see with scraper where it gets dmg to barrier i have a feeling catalyst is going to keep playing like a glass staff ele or a stander d/d ele but with an F5. Having barrier on more then just one skill lets catalyst use healing power as a true def effect with out it healing power is only an after the dmg effect and for ele that often just means death. That and the lack of build in stab for hammer much like weaver has for 1 of its dule skills.

The F5 blocking energy gain when in use is too punishing for its effect and it just feels bad.

The question is what is catalyst for other then power creep?

[Geoff Fey.1035]

Have there been any updates or a note if they plan to inform the community of changes to Elite Specs prior to EoD launch?