Why some of us don't pre-purchase things

[InsaneQR.7412]

I mean for big companies that live from big IPs and mainly focuss on their stock marging i agree that pre-purchasing isnt good practice.

 

But a more or less indie-like MMO developer that lives and falls with one product and that hasnt let me down in product delivery for about a decade i doubt that pre-purchasing will hurt anyone.

[miraude.2107]

Early access can help indie devs. So I don't like poopooing all over it just because EA always screws everything up. I mean, look at Phasmaphobia. That game is in early access and honestly would not have gotten to the position it is now if it didn't garner the funds to be able to expand. The dev was solo and planned on doing everything himself but those pre-order/early access sales gave him access to funds he didn't have. Now they have not only expanded into a team of devs, they've been able to focus on issues the original dev was holding off on like upgrading textures as that was a low priority.

Then you have the dev of Summer of '58 who QUIT. They delivered a completed game and people played all the way through and then returned it because of Steam's refund window. It was rated very positive and because people took the money from the dev by refunding, they effectively made it so that this dev could not continue on with the next complete part of the game and it broke their spirit.

There are those that abuse early access. 7 Days to Die being the forefront in my mind because they could release the game out of early access right now as a complete game, however it's not what they 'invisioned' yet or some kitten.

Even then, you have devs that use early access as a beta build for testing to deliver a completed game. The Subnautica series is an example of this. They used that early access window to be able to iron out issues as they can only test out so much themselves. You gonna tell me that devs would have thought, oh lets see what happens if we use X item like this, like some of us insane 'poke the bear, see what happens' do? Valheim is another example with people making ski jumps to see how far they can launch the boat. Or the whole insanity players have done with the harpoon and building. Lord the freaking buildings.....

Honestly, the main issue for incomplete games that you are understandably upset about is the shareholders/investors. They are to blame. They are the reason we get incomplete games at release now. They are the ones instating the unbearable timelines, 60+ hour work weeks, and causing the same cookie cutter insert COD/MOH clone xxxxxx because they do not want quality, they want results that earn them money. If that game doesn't give the result they want (like NEO: The World Ends With You) than welp there goes the devs chances of expanding that franchise unless the can get one of those suits on their side. That is also one of the reasons so many games from Steam made from indie developers have been ported (Stardew Valley, Terraria, Undertale, etc) to nearly every console or mobile. It was because of early backers, people who paid to have early access. They had fans supporting them and showing they are interested. They didn't have that someone breathing down their neck saying 'get it done in this time, leave the rest for post production' when they are trying to figure out why the face frame is collapsing and leaving just teeth and eyeballs, stressing them out even more.

[IndigoSundown.5419]

I too would like to return to a day when game developers offered a product that could be judged on its value before I buy it.  However, that day seems to be receding into the past.

Part of that is the state of the industry, and part of it is on the consumer.  Companies wouldn't offer pre-purchase options if people weren't buying them.  Finally, companies have always been prone to offer the minimum quality they think the market will bear, in order to maximize RoI.  That. too, is down to consumers.  If people didn't buy half-baked products, companies would either offer better or offer nothing.

We (collectively) are the reason we can't have nice things. 🙀

Edited November 29, 2021 by IndigoSundown.5419

[Kastylx.4657]

Btw... Hot does it work? I pre purchased cause i started playing a month ago and this seemd to be the best deal. What if i dont like EoD? How does refund work in that case even tho i already played the kitten out of other expacs? I did not play beta (will do the next) but i already dislike all the especs other than vindi. What if it i get an unplayable performance? Lets be honest, recommended specs are for below minimum performance in gw2s case.

 

Im not bashing, love 90% of the game, im just curious

[Alcatraznc.3869]

I was going to purchase it anyway and having extra free goodies is always nice.

 

I usually dont recommend pre ordering stuff but it is only a question of trust. Putting aside what I've said earlier, do YOU think it is safe enough to pre prechase the thing you want ? Do you think it is worth your money ? Is the price reasonnable for you ? We're not talking about a new game (though maybe it can be, kind of with all those changes) but an expansion so we already know a bit about what it will offer. EoD looked nice, the spec offer new toy to mess around with and take a break with all we already have, I can have my own Blastoise and new expansion means more story, more maps, more answers and more cliffhanger. Finally the price was fairly cheap. And a little sidenote, Anet delaying EoD to next year is a bummer in a sense that I wont be able to play it during holidays however I have more hope for a stable and less buggy expansion. Hell if they decide to delay it again, that will be a very big bummer but if the end result is something very close to a flawless expansion, I'll be more than fine with it.

 

From personnal experience, when I played BF3 the game was buggy, it was enjoyable but balance stuff aside, there were some major issues. But as time passed, they kept patching the game, releasing good and fun DLC. I was very confident that the next BF game would be better than BF3, I mean they have the experience right ? I was a bit under the influence of my friends back then who pre ordered the game and ended up pre ordering myself. And it was a cold shower when BF4 was finally released. Game was buggy and glitchy as hell, was it the full release or a beta ? Anyway it just killed my motivation to play the game and I felt deceived.

 

All that wall of text to say that  Yes, pre ordering should not be encouraged if it's a new game. But in Anet case, we had and will have few testing session for the upcoming DLC where we can try stuff coming in the expansion. And honestly I dont know many company who let their player try the some DLC content, get their feedback, change some stuff for the better or the worse and allow the player to try once again the modified DLC content.

 

 

Or you can just wait for EoD review and make your own opinion next year

 

 

 

[Raknar.4735]

2 hours ago, The Greyhawk.9107 said:

OP was only giving their opinion and the reason for their opinion on the matter of Pre-purchases, no one was forced to agree and comply, nor was anyone shamed into doing so.  OP only gave advice on the matter, advice other people would have to go out of their way to read this thread to even know about.

And I was only giving my opinion regarding their opinion. OP isn‘t forced to agree and comply. I only gave advice on the matter.

Unless you‘re somehow against people voicing their opinion, I‘m not sure what your post is about, as it does not add anything to the relevant topic of pre-purchasing, nor does it make sense, as this forum is a place of open discussion.

Edited November 29, 2021 by Raknar.4735

[Ultramex.1506]

1 hour ago, Alcatraznc.3869 said:

ersonnal experience, when I played BF3 the game was buggy, it was enjoyable but balance stuff aside, there were some major issues. But as time passed, they kept patching the game, releasing good and fun DLC. I was very confident that the next BF game would be better than BF3, I mean they have the experience right ? I was a bit under the influence of my friends back then who pre ordered the game and ended up pre ordering myself. And it was a cold shower when BF4 was finally released. Game was buggy and glitchy as hell, was it the full release or a beta ? Anyway it just killed my motivation to play the game and I felt deceived.

And now history repeat with BF 20-24 FPS

[Inculpatus cedo.9234]

3 hours ago, Kastylx.4657 said:

Btw... Hot does it work? I pre purchased cause i started playing a month ago and this seemd to be the best deal. What if i dont like EoD? How does refund work in that case even tho i already played the kitten out of other expacs? I did not play beta (will do the next) but i already dislike all the especs other than vindi. What if it i get an unplayable performance? Lets be honest, recommended specs are for below minimum performance in gw2s case.

 

Im not bashing, love 90% of the game, im just curious

Here is the policy:  https://help.guildwars2.com/hc/en-us/articles/201862768-Refunds

[Ashantara.8731]

On 11/28/2021 at 4:17 AM, Zera Allimatti.2541 said:

I'm not saying don't buy the expansion, I'm saying don't let ArenaNet get into the habit of releasing an unfinished game by giving them money for an unfinished product months in advance.

I don't think what you are suggesting applies to ArenaNet, thank goodness. I am afraid the product might be nothing like what I expected when I heard the EoD expansion was coming. However, there is no way to ask for a refund once you've already played the content to see whether it's after your own taste. 😉

I get your stance, though. It's probably a wise decision in most (other) cases.

Edited November 29, 2021 by Ashantara.8731

[Epsilon Indi.2031]

9 hours ago, InsaneQR.7412 said:

I mean for big companies that live from big IPs and mainly focuss on their stock marging i agree that pre-purchasing isnt good practice.

 

But a more or less indie-like MMO developer that lives and falls with one product and that hasnt let me down in product delivery for about a decade i doubt that pre-purchasing will hurt anyone.

Yeah, this entirely.

It's all down to history of the company (How well have they delivered on what they've promised to put into expansions vs what is actually released in said expansions) and trust that's built up for keeping to the promises and such.

Don't want to get Aliens: Colonial Marines'd or Cyberpunk  2077'd, etc.

[Zera.9435]

Hiya folks, I would like to add that part of my concern stems from the fact that while ArenaNet has a great track record right now, you have to remember that EA, Bethesda, and other such companies also used to have great track records.

I brought up this topic because I care about what ArenaNet does (partly because I'm an NCSoft shareholder, but that's besides the point) and I don't want it to become the next EA or Bethesda. Years from now I don't want to look at ArenaNet and think "Yeah they used to be great, but then they -insert shady business decision here- and now they're just like EA and Bethesda".
 

It CAN happen to ArenaNet, and one way to help 'keep them in line', so to speak, is by not pre-purchasing. You're all free to do as you wish with your money, of course, I'm just simply offering words of caution to my fellow consumers. ArenaNet is still part of NCSoft, which is multi-billion dollar company. A lack of pre-purchasing is not going to stop the development of EoD.

I would also like to add that those of you who mentioned indie developers are right in that they are not necessarily 'undeserving' of the benefits of pre-purchasing or early access. However, I want to also add that by pre-purchasing you are fostering a market trend that makes pre-purchasing a necessity for indie developers.

[Zera.9435]

On 11/28/2021 at 7:50 AM, JacobInTheLunchroom.8605 said:

Title: "Why some of us don't pre-purchase things"

Body: "you're a horrible person and the cause of all bad company practices and probably several war crimes as well if you have ever or will ever pre-purchase anything"

Yeah no, I didn't call anyone a horrible person nor accuse anyone of any war crimes. Perhaps you'd like to actually contribute to the discussion? Plenty of others have and it has been quite civil. Keep it as such.

[Blude.6812]

I have bought games early and got burnt. Now I wait for the reviews, patches and sales (e.g. Cyberpunk). However I do want the bonus items AND with Anet I am purchasing with eyes wide open and know that launch day is going to be a hot mess and there will be lots of updates required.

[Klowdy.3126]

In my mind, the presale is like a kickstarter, but for a group that has established that they aren't going to "fire fest" everyone. The money goes into paying for production, and overtime. The extra injection of money also shows investors that people are interested before the product launches (hype), and the investment has a high probability of being worthwhile. It would be totally different if HoT and PoF weren't as good as they were, but they did so much to make the game better, I see absolutely no reason to no support this team ahead of launch if that's what you want to do. ANet hasn't really shown themselves to be what the OPs picture describes, so all of this is out of context. It's not like this is WoW.

[Zera.9435]

On 11/28/2021 at 5:36 AM, Xainou.1502 said:

Your favourite coffee shop sells you what turned out to be contaminated coffee, you get sick and end up dying. Is that likely to happen? No. But it could happen. Should your takeaway from this be to never buy coffee?

 

Your thread either is an unhealthy amount of paranoia or a thinly veiled attempt at trashing the game...

My 'paranoia' is not unfounded nor in an unhealthy amount. I am also not attempting to trash the game.

You're comparing the purchasing of a product that is immediately available to a product that is not yet available.

Think of it more like this:

You just purchased a car. You have already paid but you cannot drive it for roughly six months. In the mean time, here is a car cover (mount skin), steering wheel cover (cape), and custom shiny valve caps (title).

Edited November 29, 2021 by Zera Allimatti.2541
Clarification

[Zera.9435]

18 minutes ago, Klowdy.3126 said:

In my mind, the presale is like a kickstarter, but for a group that has established that they aren't going to "fire fest" everyone. The money goes into paying for production, and overtime. The extra injection of money also shows investors that people are interested before the product launches (hype), and the investment has a high probability of being worthwhile. It would be totally different if HoT and PoF weren't as good as they were, but they did so much to make the game better, I see absolutely no reason to no support this team ahead of launch if that's what you want to do. ANet hasn't really shown themselves to be what the OPs picture describes, so all of this is out of context. It's not like this is WoW.

You can already show support by buying things from the gems store, but I see your point. However as I mentioned recently pre-purchasing fosters a market trend that makes pre-purchasing a necessity. No company should be dependent on pre-purchasing. I'm also not saying that ArenaNet is like the picture, I'm saying that it's possible for them to become that.

Edited November 29, 2021 by Zera Allimatti.2541

[ArchonWing.9480]

16 hours ago, Vayne.8563 said:

And getting in on the ground floor while friends and guildies play. Not really a problem if you solo everything but I don't play MMOs to solo. Yep, I'd pay more to play with my friends and guildies the first time.

Yea I suppose that's a thing. I'm a WvW main so content doesn't really align with expansions for the most part, and I play with my guildies/friends anyways. I just used HoT classes until I got PoF for the most part. And the other chunk of my PvE is fractals. That actually reflects well on the game to a certain degree.

PoF still sucks though. (LS4 is a bit better). I have still not finished the story (tl;dr).

And it's not like I can't buy on the day of release either. Servers are usually so loaded during an update that I usually wait anyways for a few days.

Edited November 29, 2021 by ArchonWing.9480

[Gibson.4036]

Launch day is typically a unique experience, both with bugs and with all the excitement of people pouring into new content no one has experienced before.

If someone is sure they are going to buy it at full price anyway, it's nice to have the purchase complete and ready to go ahead of time so you can enter fully into that.

I prepurchased vanilla GW2, and loved opening day. By HoT, I didn't like the direction the game was going, so I waited to see and never bought it. Years later I came back and got it with PoF, well after PoF release.

This time, I'll be prebuying and enjoying launch day with my son and the rest of the population that chooses to do the same.

2 hours ago, Zera Allimatti.2541 said:

Yeah no, I didn't call anyone a horrible person nor accuse anyone of any war crimes. Perhaps you'd like to actually contribute to the discussion? Plenty of others have and it has been quite civil. Keep it as such.

The post you're responding too definitely overstated your OP, but I, and it appears at least a few others, felt a tonal shift from your thread title to the body of your OP. "Why some of us don't pre-purchase" was a great way to start, but it felt like it changed to, "Why you are contributing to bad trends in the industry if you do". 

From, "here's my perspective" to a bit of sermonizing, if that makes sense. It looks like not everyone took it that way, but some appear to have. No bad feelings, and just a personal reaction, so take it or leave it .

I appreciate your desire to not feed business practices toxic to consumers.

Edited November 29, 2021 by Gibson.4036

[Zera.9435]

1 hour ago, Gibson.4036 said:

Launch day is typically a unique experience, both with bugs and with all the excitement of people pouring into new content no one has experienced before.

If someone is sure they are going to buy it at full price anyway, it's nice to have the purchase complete and ready to go ahead of time so you can enter fully into that.

I prepurchased vanilla GW2, and loved opening day. By HoT, I didn't like the direction the game was going, so I waited to see and never bought it. Years later I came back and got it with PoF, well after PoF release.

This time, I'll be prebuying and enjoying launch day with my son and the rest of the population that chooses to do the same.

The post you're responding too definitely overstated your OP, but I, and it appears at least a few others, felt a tonal shift from your thread title to the body of your OP. "Why some of us don't pre-purchase" was a great way to start, but it felt like it changed to, "Why you are contributing to bad trends in the industry if you do". 

From, "here's my perspective" to a bit of sermonizing, if that makes sense. It looks like not everyone took it that way, but some appear to have. No bad feelings, and just a personal reaction, so take it or leave it .

I appreciate your desire to not feed business practices toxic to consumers.

Yes I suppose I could have come up with a different title, but meh here we are.

[Rogue.8235]

On 11/27/2021 at 10:17 PM, Zera Allimatti.2541 said:

Despite that I intend to buy the EoD expansion when it comes out, I refuse to pre-purchase it. For those of you who are confused and thinking "Why do that if you're going to buy it anyway?", just try to understand that by pre-purchasing, you are normalizing a terrible business strategy that only hurts the consumer (you) in the grand scheme of things.

While ArenaNet may not be on the level of Ubisoft, Bethesda, or EA in terms of giving their customer base the shaft, the only way to make sure they don't get to that level is by not pre-purchasing. Here is why:

https://imgur.com/gallery/1Bu5w05

I'm not saying don't buy the expansion, I'm saying don't let ArenaNet get into the habit of releasing an unfinished game by giving them money for an unfinished product months in advance. EoD isn't looking bad, and it is probably mostly finished, but that's no reason to let them slide down that slippery slope. Give ArenaNet your money when they actually deserve it (at release), not months beforehand. If you MUST do it to get your pre-purchase bonus items, then do it the day before release. It's still technically a pre-purchase so they must honor the items.

Keep ArenaNet from becoming like Ubisoft, Bethesda, or EA. Know your worth.

 

Umm... cartoons and comics are hardly compelling evidence of macro-economic problems.

Besides, pre-purchasing is an effective way to normalize supply as it gives manufacturers/developers a solid information set of demand.  It's more concrete than the usual 3-method triangulation of demand forecasting.

Also, context is key.  Blanket decisions regardless of context doesn't work with life.  Reality is far more nuanced.  Here, ArenaNet has provided what is advertised from their mouths (I disregard player speculations that shomehow get linked to ArenaNet "promises" rather than made up stuff from other players).

 

As well, pre-purchasing is an opt-in method.  You're not missing out by not pre-purchasing, in this instance.  So no biggie if you, personally, don't want to pre-purchase expansions from ArenaNet.  This proclmation that pre-orders are a universally bad business process is just factually incorrect.

Sideshow Collectibles do pre-orders with practically everything they make.  It is a great business model for them and their customers and works well.  Yes it is a different industry, which is why this assertion that pre-orders are universally bad is fallacious.

 

As for pre-orders specific to the video game industry, that is where nuance comes in.  Does the company have a recorded history of failing to deliver pre-ordered products?  The answer to this question will differ amongst the different development studios and publishers.  Again, context matters.  

 

 

 

Other than the above, sure it's your opihnion and, especially, your money.  Completely good of you to spend it as you think it should be spent.  My personal opinion differs from yours, concerning the production history of ArenaNet, so I am completely comfortable pre-ordering stuff from them.

This doesn't mean I would necessarily do this for every video game developer, because, again, context matters.

 

 

 

Kay, last thing.  Seriously, how is a comic supposed to be irrefutable proof, or even a valid source of information to support.... anything?

 

[Epsilon Indi.2031]

11 minutes ago, Rogue.8235 said:

 

Umm... cartoons and comics are hardly compelling evidence of macro-economic problems.

Besides, pre-purchasing is an effective way to normalize supply as it gives manufacturers/developers a solid information set of demand.  It's more concrete than the usual 3-method triangulation of demand forecasting.

Also, context is key.  Blanket decisions regardless of context doesn't work with life.  Reality is far more nuanced.  Here, ArenaNet has provided what is advertised from their mouths (I disregard player speculations that shomehow get linked to ArenaNet "promises" rather than made up stuff from other players).

Digital goods don't suffer from scarcity unless it's artificial.

 

Quote

As well, pre-purchasing is an opt-in method.  You're not missing out by not pre-purchasing, in this instance.  So no biggie if you, personally, don't want to pre-purchase expansions from ArenaNet.  This proclmation that pre-orders are a universally bad business process is just factually incorrect.

Sideshow Collectibles do pre-orders with practically everything they make.  It is a great business model for them and their customers and works well.  Yes it is a different industry, which is why this assertion that pre-orders are universally bad is fallacious.

You miss out on skins and other features & rewards for not pre-purchasing.  This can be as simple as a bit more ingame currency, to outright power-creep in certain instances.  But either way, companies adore pumping that FOMO bullkitten into everything.

 

[Raizel.1839]

Some pre purchase right away, some wait for more infos, some wait for release. 

Why do you even inquire other's choices in this matter? Everyone does whatever they please with their money, and they don't need to explain their reasons.

[Ultramex.1506]

18 minutes ago, Raizel.1839 said:

Some pre purchase right away, some wait for more infos, some wait for release. 

Why do you even inquire other's choices in this matter? Everyone does whatever they please with their money, and they don't need to explain their reasons.

Eh with the current trend in gaming i can see why OP is upset, and people can do what they want doesn't mean they can't be criticised for allowing TrIpLe AaA take their money and give them shoddy product while lying about it

However, Anet beside the mount skin lootbox, haven't done what the OP's fear

Edited November 30, 2021 by Ultramex.1506

[Rogue.8235]

37 minutes ago, Sir Alymer.3406 said:

Digital goods don't suffer from scarcity unless it's artificial.

 

And digital goods have development costs that cannot be offset until product release, or preorders...

 

38 minutes ago, Sir Alymer.3406 said:

You miss out on skins and other features & rewards for not pre-purchasing.  This can be as simple as a bit more ingame currency, to outright power-creep in certain instances.  But either way, companies adore pumping that FOMO bullkitten into everything.

 

You can still get this stuff after the expansion has released.  I did that exact thing with Heart of Thorns.  Also, if you think the bonus stuff is worth the money, then buy it.  If not, then that bonus stuff just wasn't worth it.   I usually pass on collector edition stuff because I just don't place much value on all the bonus extras.

 

So, if the bonus stuff isn't worth it to you, then you're not missing anything.  

Also, specify the instances of "power creep" in GW2 that is due to preorders and deluxe/ultimate editions.  As far as I can see, it's some gems that are discounted, cosmetic items, and a lounge pass.  What "pwer creep?"

 

Hyperbole only weakens the point you are trying to make.  Same with the exaggeration of objective truth.

 

[Gorem.8104]

They gave us a lot of goodies and extremely cheap gems, and bonus we get an expansion later. Like, if anything the "Free" stuff we get is more then many other games give us for higher money charges, and yet we get it with an expansion to play later! 

 

Can't compare gw2 to other games really.