Why some of us don't pre-purchase things

[Elricht Kaltwind.8796]

10 hours ago, Zera Allimatti.2541 said:

just try to understand that by pre-purchasing, you are normalizing a terrible business strategy that only hurts the consumer (you) in the grand scheme of things.

Ok I'll try 

[Xainou.1502]

7 hours ago, Zera Allimatti.2541 said:

Let's say EoD is released as scheduled and it really is a horribly unfinished product. Would it be what's expected of ArenaNet? No. Could it happen? Absolutely. Just because they haven't done it before doesn't mean they never will.

Your favourite coffee shop sells you what turned out to be contaminated coffee, you get sick and end up dying. Is that likely to happen? No. But it could happen. Should your takeaway from this be to never buy coffee?

 

Your thread either is an unhealthy amount of paranoia or a thinly veiled attempt at trashing the game...

[AgentMoore.9453]

I think OP's position is a perfectly reasonable stance to have, but also that it's not the only stance that's valid, which seems to be what the fuss is about.

Companies (and other creatives) can sometimes do weird things when they receive payment before their work is completed. Sometimes this manifests as a lazy or unfinished product, and other times it can add pressure to a creator and influence the finished product in negative ways that have nothing to do with dedication. If your experiences suggest that early money leads to a poorer product, then I totally understand opting to wait and see rather than leap and hope.

Example: If you're someone who pre-purchased HoT back when hype for it was through the roof and then realized on release that raids weren't in LFG, an entire path of Dragon's Stand and related storyline were cut during production but left behind some of the NPCs, your guild hall had an unfinished jumping puzzle, incomplete levels players initially weren't meant to see (no mounts or accessible paths to these), and an unfinalized system for queuing upgrades and decorations, you might have sat there thinking 'man, this kinda feels unfinished'. And people did. There was a huge amount of feedback regarding this stuff, and to some degree it happened with PoF as well. If those were your experiences, you might have a view that ArenaNet flies by the seat of their pants sometimes and it's better to wait for release and see what you're actually getting.

Now, on the other hand, you may have all those same experiences and your takeaway might be different. You might say 'well, they've done unfinished things before, but they went back and fixed some of it later and I'm fine with that, so I'll pre-order despite this'. This is also a valid view. You might also say 'well, it's finished enough for me, or at least the things I want are finished and therefore I don't really care if they go back and give it another pass later'. Valid as well. You may even unchain the notion of pre-ordering from product quality completely and just assume no amount of time, money, or effort would change what you're going to get from ArenaNet. Valid? You betcha.

Being wary of pre-ordering (for any reason) is a choice I can respect because it reflects a person's experiences and faith in a product as well as personal preference, just as I can respect the people who immediately smacked the ultimate button on EoD completely sight unseen. Choices like these may not always be the same as mine, but I'm always interested to learn why people do what they do.

Anyway, here's wordywall. 🎵

[Embered.5089]

I'm curious. I've never pre-purchased the expansions before, but now I wonder... the Standard package is $29.99. Will EoD be cheaper or the same price if I wait until February? By this I mean the cheapest price that I can get it for, not taking into account the extra skins and stuff that they give you.

I already have HoT and PoF. I know that EoD might go on sale after release, but the latest that I want to buy it is at release. So, when should I buy it?

[Shrimpkin.4851]

2 minutes ago, Embered.5089 said:

I'm curious. I've never pre-purchased the expansions before, but now I wonder... the Standard package is $29.99. Will EoD be cheaper or the same price if I wait until February? By this I mean the cheapest price that I can get it for, not taking into account the extra skins and stuff that they give you.

I already have HoT and PoF. I know that EoD might go on sale after release, but the latest that I want to buy it is at release. So, when should I buy it?

Whenever you want.

[Danikat.8537]

24 minutes ago, Embered.5089 said:

I'm curious. I've never pre-purchased the expansions before, but now I wonder... the Standard package is $29.99. Will EoD be cheaper or the same price if I wait until February? By this I mean the cheapest price that I can get it for, not taking into account the extra skins and stuff that they give you.

I already have HoT and PoF. I know that EoD might go on sale after release, but the latest that I want to buy it is at release. So, when should I buy it?

The price will be the same at release.

You're not going to find it cheaper from Anet until there's a sale, which won't happen until sometime later. I'd guess March is the earliest they might discount it and then only because they usually have a sale in March, they might decide EoD is too new and not include it.

[JacobInTheLunchroom.8605]

Title: "Why some of us don't pre-purchase things"

Body: "you're a horrible person and the cause of all bad company practices and probably several war crimes as well if you have ever or will ever pre-purchase anything"

[Norbe.7630]

32 minutes ago, Embered.5089 said:

So, when should I buy it?

You can buy it anytime. Or not buy it at all.
It depends on what content it is being offered atm, if you like what you saw in the livestreams like afk fishing or sitting on boat spamming emotes or riding a big turtle and role play as if you are riding a rollercoaster ride on your screen. You can buy it now.
If you don't like what you saw on the livestream, but still waiting for more content, you can buy after release date.
If you don't like what you saw now and will saw in the future on the release then don't buy it.
If you want to support the game and give charity even if you don't like the content, then buy it.

Me i refunded.
 

[Randulf.7614]

Whether someone chooses to purchase ahead of release is up to them. There is no “should” or “shouldn’t”. Nor is it of concern to anyone else either. I’m happy enough with what I’ve seen and the form of Anet to make my own decision and I think pre-purchasing is a good thing.

People focus too much on the odd issue that comes up with larger companies - but pre purchasing also means bonuses and more importantly means players can buy it as their convenience within a large window rather than wait for release, where it can crash the shop servers or where money may suddenly be tight.

There is every good reason to pre purchase, but some people may want to hold off and wait more info. That’s fine too. It doesn’t matter. There is no right or wrong answer here.

 

[ArchonWing.9480]

I'll prepurchase if there's a discount or extras. Like if they gave 500 extra gems with the regular version, I'd purchase right away.  But as this post points out, not too impressive:

  

11 hours ago, Sir Alymer.3406 said:

Technically, with how expansions are packaged later, they're not. $50 worth of gems and a $25 expansion is close to the same price as EoD's premium package.

Although to be fair I don't buy gems.

Gems cost $1.25 per 100 so 4000 gems is $50: https://www.gw2spidy.com/gem

So there's really not any extra gems. Though there is one extra character slot. (600-800)

Edited November 28, 2021 by ArchonWing.9480

[Cyninja.2954]

14 hours ago, Zera Allimatti.2541 said:

Despite that I intend to buy the EoD expansion when it comes out, I refuse to pre-purchase it. For those of you who are confused and thinking "Why do that if you're going to buy it anyway?", just try to understand that by pre-purchasing, you are normalizing a terrible business strategy that only hurts the consumer (you) in the grand scheme of things.

 

That is actually not true.

 

You are lumping every developer together here, which is both unfair to certain developers, as well as specific games.

 

First off, it's not confusing to many people. Most gamers in the old school MMORPG genre are 30+. Most of us have seen how the gaming industry has changed. So yes, being weary and careful with your money is sensible.

 

At the same time, lumping every developer together is doing the few studios which do deliver solid products a disservice, especially with how funding in todays gaming world works. Past experience should always be a factor when judging a gamig studio. Beyond that, it's personal preference and liquidity.

[Fantazyz.4723]

I'll pre order anything gw2 related or gw1. Ill also pre order anything monster hunter related. These have been tried and true games to back blindly at least in my opinion. 

 

I dont pre other new things anymore because most developers and publishers lack the history. For example Bethesda has always been a kitten company that delivers good games, the problem is that these games are rarely good on launch and rely heavily on user mods. 

 

Gw2 or monster hunter in the other hand always deliver quality and thats why you see so little progression gameplay wise. They play it safe because they don't want their communities getting jausted around. 

[Epsilon Indi.2031]

58 minutes ago, ArchonWing.9480 said:

I'll prepurchase if there's a discount or extras. Like if they gave 500 extra gems with the regular version, I'd purchase right away.  But as this post points out, not too impressive:

  

Although to be fair I don't buy gems.

Gems cost $1.25 per 100 so 4000 gems is $50: https://www.gw2spidy.com/gem

So there's really not any extra gems. Though there is one extra character slot. (600-800)

It's long after release, but expansions do go on sale.  PoF has been as low as $15 before I think.  My argument is that, if you're patient and wait for an expansion s ale, you're not really "Saving" money by buying the 4k gems+expansion now.  The gems themselves aren't really on sale here.  You're paying $80 for an expansion.  $50 for gems, $30 for expansion features.

[Danikat.8537]

3 hours ago, ArchonWing.9480 said:

I'll prepurchase if there's a discount or extras. Like if they gave 500 extra gems with the regular version, I'd purchase right away.  But as this post points out, not too impressive:

  

Although to be fair I don't buy gems.

Gems cost $1.25 per 100 so 4000 gems is $50: https://www.gw2spidy.com/gem

So there's really not any extra gems. Though there is one extra character slot. (600-800)

Because I do purchase gems sometimes the way I look at it is I'm buying 4,000 gems at the normal price of £42.50, then getting the Deluxe edition for £27.49. But that only works because I buy gems periodically anyway, and because I trust myself to save them for things I'd buy anyway instead of spending them all right away and then buying more when stuff I want comes out. At some point I worked out that 4,000 gems would normally last me about 6 months, but it does depend on when there's a sale.

I originally worked that out for HoT because I was one of the people surprised by the price and that there wasn't a way to get it without the base game, but seeing it as buying gems and also the expansion brought the price down to about what I'd expected to pay for the Deluxe edition, so it seemed more reasonable.

[Inculpatus cedo.9234]

Some may regard the 4000 Gems as no discount, but those who do purchase the Ultimate Edition, or pre-purchase the Ultimate Edition do receive other items that have a value.  A Cape, a weapon, a Character Slot, a Mount Skin, a Skiff Skin, an Identity Repair Kit.

[Doctor Hide.6345]

Well, it depends for me, but I generally pre-purchase games when I have the cash then and now. I have been in too many situations where I have lost a job and such and had no money to buy the expansion that was coming out. So, I pre-purchase now to avoid that from happening, so instead of wasting $60 on a one time meal. I can spend the money on a game instead and get more value from it.

[Sobx.1758]

Was anyone even quesitoning people not prepurchasing? I think most people are probably fine (or rather: indifferent) with others making their choice whether they want to prepurchase (or even purchase at all)  something or not.

[Pifil.5193]

26 minutes ago, Inculpatus cedo.9234 said:

Some may regard the 4000 Gems as no discount, but those who do purchase the Ultimate Edition, or pre-purchase the Ultimate Edition do receive other items that have a value.  A Cape, a weapon, a Character Slot, a Mount Skin, a Skiff Skin, an Identity Repair Kit.

 

Yeah, I'm amazed that people are comparing the Ultimate edition to the Standard edition and not to the Deluxe edition.

 

The Ultimate edition costs €80 and is the Deluxe edition (which costs €55), with €50 worth of gems. So you get those €50 of gems for €25.

[Vayne.8563]

7 hours ago, AgentMoore.9453 said:

I think OP's position is a perfectly reasonable stance to have, but also that it's not the only stance that's valid, which seems to be what the fuss is about.

Companies (and other creatives) can sometimes do weird things when they receive payment before their work is completed. Sometimes this manifests as a lazy or unfinished product, and other times it can add pressure to a creator and influence the finished product in negative ways that have nothing to do with dedication. If your experiences suggest that early money leads to a poorer product, then I totally understand opting to wait and see rather than leap and hope.

Example: If you're someone who pre-purchased HoT back when hype for it was through the roof and then realized on release that raids weren't in LFG, an entire path of Dragon's Stand and related storyline were cut during production but left behind some of the NPCs, your guild hall had an unfinished jumping puzzle, incomplete levels players initially weren't meant to see (no mounts or accessible paths to these), and an unfinalized system for queuing upgrades and decorations, you might have sat there thinking 'man, this kinda feels unfinished'. And people did. There was a huge amount of feedback regarding this stuff, and to some degree it happened with PoF as well. If those were your experiences, you might have a view that ArenaNet flies by the seat of their pants sometimes and it's better to wait for release and see what you're actually getting.

Now, on the other hand, you may have all those same experiences and your takeaway might be different. You might say 'well, they've done unfinished things before, but they went back and fixed some of it later and I'm fine with that, so I'll pre-order despite this'. This is also a valid view. You might also say 'well, it's finished enough for me, or at least the things I want are finished and therefore I don't really care if they go back and give it another pass later'. Valid as well. You may even unchain the notion of pre-ordering from product quality completely and just assume no amount of time, money, or effort would change what you're going to get from ArenaNet. Valid? You betcha.

Being wary of pre-ordering (for any reason) is a choice I can respect because it reflects a person's experiences and faith in a product as well as personal preference, just as I can respect the people who immediately smacked the ultimate button on EoD completely sight unseen. Choices like these may not always be the same as mine, but I'm always interested to learn why people do what they do.

Anyway, here's wordywall. 🎵

This is a perfectly reasonable position and as such I'm not sure it belongs on this forums as it stands out like a sore thumb. lol

 

The HOT thing is an interesting example you brought up, since I preordered HoT and never regretted it, not from day one.   I've always liked Dragon Stand, no matter what was cut. It's a fun meta for me and has been since the first time I played with. Loved the guild hall thing as it gave my guild something to work toward.  There was no reason to wait for release if I was always going to get it, because if I did wait for release, my entire guild would be playing it, and I'd be sitting there not able to join them.

Unlike single player games where waiting for release can be better, coop games and particularly MMOs are different experiences when you play them up front or you play them with people.  It's no fun having all your friends trying new stuff together while you run around in core Tyria or do the Silverwastes for the 30th time.  It's just not how MMOs are meant to be played.

Sure if you solo and never play with anyone or every single person in your group of friends decides to hold off buying (and I've not often seen that happen), it's better to hold off, but honestly, with all the complaining about HoT, only a handful of people in my guild really complained about it and most of them just weren't good enough at the game to make much headway.  The vast majority of us had a ball when HoT launched.  

And yeah there were bugs and problems, but we overcame or waited out a couple of really bad ones (Hearts and Minds comes to Mind). Those complaints you level at HoT don't stop it from being the more popular of the two expansions right now.

[Obtena.7952]

18 hours ago, Zera Allimatti.2541 said:

I'm not saying don't buy the expansion, I'm saying don't let ArenaNet get into the habit of releasing an unfinished game by giving them money for an unfinished product months in advance.

I'm not here to sway your decision but ... how do you define 'unfinished' and based on the previous expansion releases, why would you think Anet would even contemplate doing this?

I believe that Anet making pre-purchases available is a sign of good faith on their part, especially since they are being very open and transparent about what we should expect when EoD is released as well as inviting us into experiencing it's design. That's ... unique.  That's not the behaviour of a company trying to scam customers .. it's actually the opposite of that. 

Edited November 28, 2021 by Obtena.7952

[ArchonWing.9480]

1 hour ago, Sir Alymer.3406 said:

It's long after release, but expansions do go on sale.  PoF has been as low as $15 before I think.  My argument is that, if you're patient and wait for an expansion s ale, you're not really "Saving" money by buying the 4k gems+expansion now.  The gems themselves aren't really on sale here.  You're paying $80 for an expansion.  $50 for gems, $30 for expansion features.

I know, that's what I said lol. It's not a very impressive sale on gems.

Edited November 28, 2021 by ArchonWing.9480

[Cronospere.8143]

18 hours ago, Xainou.1502 said:

Releasing a horribly unfinished expansion would be a really weird business tactic for an ongoing game without a subscription fee ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

You're trying to compare apples to oranges here.

And this is exactly why i think (for me) there is a difference between games like gw2 and Battlefield or Call of Duty. 

 

I'm actually hoping that my money from the preorder helps them to create a better game. A certain kind of loyalty for a game that ive been playing for over a decade. 

 

At the same time you won't see me pre order other games until they've come out and i have been able to test the game. 

I don't blame others for not pre ordering if they dont feel the trust yet. I certainly hope you will get this trust in ANet one day. 

[ArchonWing.9480]

3 hours ago, Danikat.8537 said:

Because I do purchase gems sometimes the way I look at it is I'm buying 4,000 gems at the normal price of £42.50, then getting the Deluxe edition for £27.49. But that only works because I buy gems periodically anyway, and because I trust myself to save them for things I'd buy anyway instead of spending them all right away and then buying more when stuff I want comes out. At some point I worked out that 4,000 gems would normally last me about 6 months, but it does depend on when there's a sale.

I originally worked that out for HoT because I was one of the people surprised by the price and that there wasn't a way to get it without the base game, but seeing it as buying gems and also the expansion brought the price down to about what I'd expected to pay for the Deluxe edition, so it seemed more reasonable.

Well I guess the other thing was that HoT was pretty broken at release so I didn't really feel like it was worth it at that point. I didn't even buy PoF until 2019 and was 1/2 off because I had no interest in the content and only got it because mounts/new specs were sorta needed in WvW. And to this day I still hate PoF content mostly. It's like huge expanses of nothing.

So I am definitely was going to be on the no pre-order EoD side to begin with because I might not even buy it when it comes out. But probably will.

Edited November 28, 2021 by ArchonWing.9480

[Vayne.8563]

3 hours ago, ArchonWing.9480 said:

I know, that's what I said lol. It's not a very impressive sale on gems.

And getting in on the ground floor while friends and guildies play. Not really a problem if you solo everything but I don't play MMOs to solo. Yep, I'd pay more to play with my friends and guildies the first time.

[The Greyhawk.9107]

On 11/27/2021 at 10:58 PM, Raknar.4735 said:

Or we could just let people do what they want with their own money, as it is their money, not yours.

If you don't think Anet does deserve the prepurchase money, then don't prepurchase it. But leave the money of others out of it. It isn't yours, it's theirs.

OP was only giving their opinion and the reason for their opinion on the matter of Pre-purchases, no one was forced to agree and comply, nor was anyone shamed into doing so.  OP only gave advice on the matter, advice other people would have to go out of their way to read this thread to even know about.