Prestige items GW2 vs other MMOs

[Chichimec.9364]

5 hours ago, Rasimir.6239 said:

There's two conflicting demands among the playerbase:

• Players that focus on (perceived) prestige in "hard to get" rewards like skins, mounts, top tier equipment, and similar. These players usually ask for unique rewards gated behind specific content, either through challenge or random drop (which is a proxy for "invested the time to repeat the content until you got the drop").
• Players that focus on what kind of content they enjoy playing. To those players, accessibility of whatever rewards appeal to them (skins they find visually pleasing/matching their character, fun gadgets, but also good equipment that allows them the same advantages playing the game as other players that prioritize different playstyles) is more important than exclusivity of rewards.

 

Most MMORPGs I have played focus on the first kind of player. GW2 on the other hand has a strong focus on the 2nd kind. Switching the reward system to more unique rewards that force you to play (or even grind) specific content, will most certainly not be mutually welcome, since that automatically means more rewards gated from people that don't enjoy the specific content the rewards are tied to.

Threads like this one often leave me scratching my head in puzzlement. Personally, I play GW2 because I enjoy it, not to show off to people I don't know, nor to demonstrate my "prestige" by displaying my shiny whatever. I don't pay much attention to other players' shinies or titles and don't even notice whether they pay attention to mine or not. Except for guildies of course. We love showing off our new shinies to each other. 🙂 But these are people I know and like, not nameless, faceless randos on the streets of Tyria. And we are not trying to impress each other, we're just oohhing and aahhing over a friend's new pretties. The GW2 players who really impress me are folks like Dulfy, Jen, and AynMaiden who do (or did, in Dulfy's case) so much for the GW2 community. Whenever I get stuck on something in the game, those are the people I go to, looking for help.

Still, that's just me and my own mindset. I think @Rasimir.6239 makes a good point by highlighting that there are two different mindsets at play here.  It would be good if Anet could provide something for both mindsets. That only broadens the player base.

[witcher.3197]

9 hours ago, Teratus.2859 said:

Skin.

It's a skin not a mount, the mount itself you earn in game by playing it, as you do with every mount in Gw2.
Only skins are locked behind a gemstore purchase or black lion chest RNG.

And most mount skins in Gw2 are 400 gems with a one time RNG element (you can never get duplicates of them) and are unlocked account wide! which is still cheaper and more efficient than most mount skins you'll get in other MMO's which are usually more expensive, character locked and can be obtained multiple times per account.

I don't think you undestood a single word OP has said.

[Gibson.4036]

13 minutes ago, witcher.3197 said:

OP's 100% right, this is a major problem and a reason why the game doesn't attract more attention from the MMO community, but most of this forum is whiteknighting the company's terrible business practices way too hard.

What’s the difference between whiteknighting and actually liking something the way it is?

Your comment reads to me like someone walking into my local burger joint and saying "If this was more like McDonalds, there'd be a lot more customers."

And I'm thiking, "but I don't want an extra bun and load of gloppy sauce on my burger."

What exactly are the "terrible business practices"? Not having elite doo-dahs that only a small portion of the player base can achieve?

Or is it offering flashy cosmetics in the gem store? You'd rather have a P2W gem store? Or is subscription the only valid MMO model? But even subscription games offer flashy cosmetics in their stores. What would good business practice look like to you?

Edited December 15, 2021 by Gibson.4036

[Balsa.3951]

10 minutes ago, Gibson.4036 said:

What’s the difference between whiteknighting and actually liking something the way it is?

Your comment reads to me like someone walking into my local burger joint and saying "If this was more like McDonalds, there'd be a lot more customers."

And I'm thiking, "but I don't want an extra bun and load of gloppy sauce on my burger."

that's the best part on more variety... u ready ? U can choose if u want to take it or not.

[robertthebard.8150]

2 hours ago, yann.1946 said:

That is not how prestige works though.

 

Also the fact that something is virtual does not make it less a real thing. videogames are also real and completely virtual

A mount would fall into the prestige category.  The OP even opens the thread with an example of one, and then claims that mounts aren't real.  I think you're arguing against the wrong person here, because to me, getting the mount was the reward.  Since we're discussing video game rewards, trying to counter "you get it through game play" with "but it's not real" is nonsensical, at best, the at worst would earn me a(nother) vacation from the forums.

[Gibson.4036]

7 minutes ago, Balsa.3951 said:

that's the best part on more variety... u ready ? U can choose if u want to take it or not.

Sure, in an imaginary universe where there could be an unlimited amount of offerings on the menu. 

Of course, the MacD lover could also walk a block and find a MacDonalds, rather than changing the character of the local spot to suit them.

 

Businesses that try to be all things to all customers end up doing nothing well.

Edited December 15, 2021 by Gibson.4036

[Sobx.1758]

4 hours ago, Balsa.3951 said:

LOL what u even read what I wrote there.

Where did i wrote that I dont care titles? I talk about prestige items for archivments in both cases.

"Other MMos would give u a mount or a special item

gw2 gives u a title.

(...)

I hope anet can overthink their reward system a little with EOD."

 

Literally here, buddy (which is also exactly what I've quoted in my previous post, so it should be clear?). What are you even trying to pretend now? 😄

 

Quote

U get it now BUDDY ? But thanks for ur childish effort to go through my posting history 

...and that somehow make your directly opposing complaints about the same thing make more sense or what is your point here?

(even if I had to "go through your posting history", but tbh it just so happens that I remember some... more interesting threads)

Edited December 15, 2021 by Sobx.1758

[yann.1946]

46 minutes ago, Chichimec.9364 said:

Threads like this one often leave me scratching my head in puzzlement. Personally, I play GW2 because I enjoy it, not to show off to people I don't know, nor to demonstrate my "prestige" by displaying my shiny whatever.

I think an important observations is that this is not a one or the other situation. In general theirs a continuum of different states between just wanting to show of , and not caring at all. (and the showing new shinies also lies on that spectrum their. 🙂 )

46 minutes ago, Chichimec.9364 said:

I don't pay much attention to other players' shinies or titles and don't even notice whether they pay attention to mine or not. Except for guildies of course. We love showing off our new shinies to each other. 🙂 But these are people I know and like, not nameless, faceless randos on the streets of Tyria. And we are not trying to impress each other, we're just oohhing and aahhing over a friend's new pretties. The GW2 players who really impress me are folks like Dulfy, Jen, and AynMaiden who do (or did, in Dulfy's case) so much for the GW2 community. Whenever I get stuck on something in the game, those are the people I go to, looking for help.

Still, that's just me and my own mindset. I think @Rasimir.6239 makes a good point by highlighting that there are two different mindsets at play here.  It would be good if Anet could provide something for both mindsets. That only broadens the player base.

 

[Kaliwenda.3428]

10 hours ago, Balsa.3951 said:

Other MMO: Dragon mount from the Urakon 5man heroic dungeon. After completing the Forgul alliance achievement with the highest possible score. Summon on a full red moon, possible only once a year! Dam respect man, that was a challenge... I love that Mount!

GW2: Dragon Mount 2000 gems from the gemstore.....

You can only summon the mount once a year? 

[Astralporing.1957]

3 hours ago, yann.1946 said:

True, but the what you obtain represent how you managed to achieve it.

Golden olympic medals are prestige rewards for example.

Like i said, the prestige is not associated with the item, but with the deed that is behind it. It's not the gold olympic medal that is prestigious. It only signifies prestige that comes from taking first place in olympic competition. The former is meaningless without the latter. The latter confers prestige even without the former.

[Obtena.7952]

8 hours ago, Balsa.3951 said:

ppl missing the point of this forum post and white knighting all day

Tell me what is ur prestige item u own?

I wait... 🙂 

Tell us why we need to own or even have prestige items in the game ... 

WE will wait. 

Edited December 15, 2021 by Obtena.7952

[Balsa.3951]

5 minutes ago, Obtena.7952 said:

Tell us why we need to own a prestige item ... 

WE will wait. 

Are u We? Like in the royal, we?

Here is what u do if u feel u don't need rewards. 

U don't get them every time u do something in game and u get an item delete it 

report back to "WE" when u done that for a month how much fun ur game is. 

WE will wait...

Edited December 15, 2021 by Balsa.3951

[Obtena.7952]

8 minutes ago, Balsa.3951 said:

Are u We? Like in the royal, we?

Here is what u do if u feel u don't need rewards. 

U don't get them every time u do something in game and u get an item delete it 

report back to "WE" when u done that for a month how much fun ur game is. 

Don't dodge ... you said people were missing the point ... and somehow your question was clarifying that point when it doesn't. The fact is that being able to buy things in the GS isn't a problem. Your point that people can purchase prestige items is pretty nonsensical if you ask me. 

You don't think the game is fun for you because other people can buy items in the GS that you label prestige? That sounds like a 'you' problem.

Edited December 15, 2021 by Obtena.7952

[Gibson.4036]

https://seths.blog/2019/03/the-minimum-viable-audience-2/

[VAHNeunzehnsechundsiebzig.]

8 hours ago, Balsa.3951 said:

ppl missing the point of this forum post and white knighting all day

Tell me what is ur prestige item u own?

I wait... 🙂 

some of my titles I am pretty proud of. Because they took time. I am also proud of my legendary wvw armor. Because it took a lot of time. But otherwise *shrug*

[Balsa.3951]

4 minutes ago, Obtena.7952 said:

Don't dodge ... you said people were missing the point ... and somehow your question was clarifying that point when it doesn't. The fact is that being able to buy things in the GS isn't a problem. 

You don't think the game is fun for you because other people can buy items in the GS that you label prestige? That sounds like a 'you' problem. I'm going to hypothesize that lots of people don't judge their satisfaction in the game by what people can buy. That doesn't even make sense to do so, yet here you are ... talking about not being rewarded and whatever other 'point' you are trying to make. 

ofc its a you problem. what else can I post than my opinion.

Already said if one thinks rewards are good as they are more power to u. But it doesn't change my opinion that the game has an extremely low number of in game rewards vs the growing reward list from the gemstone.

And to explain more MY OPINION not using "WE"

I never saw anyone in the game rocking an mount or item and was thinking wow that person finished some content to archive that. The Best stuff comes from the gem store.  

Raiding Armor as exception, but that's years ago.

If u happy be able to buy everything in the TP or gemstore without playing, thats perfect for u. 

And with gen 3 legendaries one is able to buy those from the TP as well. 

So ya my opinion is that this is not a good direction for an MMO reward system. 

 

[Unicorn Luna.5204]

It is correct there are significantly less prestige rewards like you describe than other MMO's. It is also correct that they've gotta pay the bills somehow and expansion purchases ain't doing that alone. The game doesn't have a sub and is generous with what can be claimed just by playing AND gold can buy anything on the gemstore too so I can see why someone might have a problem with this but I know that it carries very little weight as a complaint given the circumstances.

Edited December 15, 2021 by Nayaru.4716

[Batel.9206]

5 hours ago, Gibson.4036 said:

A full stable of characters with tasteful appearances, thoughtful, lore-appropriate names, individual personalities and backstories.

Rarer than you might think. 😄

I regret I have but one like to give.

Really, though: for me, having characters with lore-appropriate clothes and names and personalities and stories is far, far more important than decking them out in the latest shiny thing. I'm not a skritt - glowing, flashing Legendaries and ascended armor and infusions and trinkets and whatnot don't interest me. I actually think they're kind of hideous, so I'm never going to spend all my time and effort chasing after them*. When I see someone having them, I don't pay attention to it at all...mostly because they tend to blend in with all the other glowing, flashing eyesores that are Legendaries and ascended armor and infusions and etc. All they signify, to me, is that someone likes shiny stuff and wants to outdo every other person who likes shiny stuff.

What is "prestigious" to other people is boring and ugly to me. What is "prestigious" to me probably looks boring and ugly to other people. To each their own.

 

*The lone exception might be the Mordremoth variation of the EoD legendary staff...if it's not too overwhelming with particle effects and looks decent for a Daredevil to bonk people with. Guess we'll see when we get there. (And even then, I wouldn't be getting it to show off all the effort I put into it. It's because there is no Caladbolg staff - something I will forever remain annoyed about - and thus my Knight of the Thorn has to make do with Bramblethorne and pretend it's Caladbolg. Something *slightly* more appropriate would be nice. or ArenaNet could just complete the Caladbolg weapons set...adding that to the list of Impossible Wintersday Wishes)

[Obtena.7952]

30 minutes ago, Balsa.3951 said:

So ya my opinion is that this is not a good direction for an MMO reward system. 

Sure ... and my point is that your opinion isn't isn't consistent how GW2 actually works because we do have stuff on the TP that is sold and also have rewards for doing content ingame that you can't buy that any reasonable person could consider 'prestige' as well.  

So what are you REALLY going on about here?

Edited December 15, 2021 by Obtena.7952

[Borked.6824]

Let's just settle this and get to the obvious, that at some point, literally everyone's gonna have a Skyscale.  Exclusivity is directly tied to prestige.  At that point, the act of accomplishing the feat will be effectively nullified, and all you have is the "thing", more importantly, the skins that you didn't buy vs the skins they did.  And from that point, your "prestige" will unfortunately be tied to your wallet rather than your feat.  

And yes you do need to have tangible evidence of prestige.  I guess you could go around linking your achievement panel too, but then you start to question "am I playing a game to ride dragons, or ride spreadsheets?  am I rocketing to the moon to quietly congratulate myself, or take a piece of the moon back and show people?"  

[Gibson.4036]

2 minutes ago, Borked.6824 said:

 

And yes you do need to have tangible evidence of prestige.  I guess you could go around linking your achievement panel too, but then you start to question "am I playing a game to ride dragons, or ride spreadsheets?  am I rocketing to the moon to quietly congratulate myself, or take a piece of the moon back and show people?"  

I don't really understand what you're saying here.

Yes, I do play to ride dragons, and beetles and griffons. The first for utility, the latter two for sheer pleasure. I'm much more likely to chase things that change how I play than things that might make someone else say, "ooh, impressive".

That means no, I don't need tangible (visible? nothing here's tangible) evidence of prestige.

[yann.1946]

1 hour ago, Astralporing.1957 said:

Like i said, the prestige is not associated with the item, but with the deed that is behind it. It's not the gold olympic medal that is prestigious. It only signifies prestige that comes from taking first place in olympic competition. The former is meaningless without the latter. The latter confers prestige even without the former.

It is associated with the object because the object is associated with the act. 

 

Let's say they suddenly gave all players in the Olympics gold medals. How would people react? 

[Flapjackson.1596]

3 hours ago, Chichimec.9364 said:

Threads like this one often leave me scratching my head in puzzlement. Personally, I play GW2 because I enjoy it, not to show off to people I don't know, nor to demonstrate my "prestige" by displaying my shiny whatever. I don't pay much attention to other players' shinies or titles and don't even notice whether they pay attention to mine or not. Except for guildies of course. We love showing off our new shinies to each other. 🙂 But these are people I know and like, not nameless, faceless randos on the streets of Tyria. And we are not trying to impress each other, we're just oohhing and aahhing over a friend's new pretties. The GW2 players who really impress me are folks like Dulfy, Jen, and AynMaiden who do (or did, in Dulfy's case) so much for the GW2 community. Whenever I get stuck on something in the game, those are the people I go to, looking for help.

Still, that's just me and my own mindset. I think @Rasimir.6239 makes a good point by highlighting that there are two different mindsets at play here.  It would be good if Anet could provide something for both mindsets. That only broadens the player base.

I’d say it’s actually three perspectives:

1. Wants rewards with prestige and external value (players care that you have it and recognize your effort)

2. Specifically doesn’t want rewards with prestige/exclusivity

3. Doesn’t really care and only internally values rewards. 
 

This thread, and general debate, often attracts those in group 3, such as yourself. It’s not really a debate on caring or not caring though. The presence of rewards that are exclusive and prestigious are irrelevant to your gameplay. It’s about should we appeal to group 1 or 2, and 3 gets what they want anyway, more rewards.
This entire discussion is a moot point since Anet has designed their game to not appeal to players like the OP and that won’t change, but it’s helpful for everyone confused to consider that MMOs attract a wide variety of players. Going into content to get a sweet reward is still another player doing that content. Best to recognize that and ask what can Anet add that appeals to multiple camps.

Edited December 15, 2021 by Flapjackson.1596

[Flapjackson.1596]

1 hour ago, Astralporing.1957 said:

Like i said, the prestige is not associated with the item, but with the deed that is behind it. It's not the gold olympic medal that is prestigious. It only signifies prestige that comes from taking first place in olympic competition. The former is meaningless without the latter. The latter confers prestige even without the former.

You’re right that the deed itself is prestigious, but isn’t this a meaningless distinction? Like you can’t really separate the two. Unless you record literally everything you do, how do you prove you did the deed? The reward confers proof. Trying to splice the two is just pointless semantics. 

[Neutra.6857]

12 minutes ago, Balsa.3951 said:

So what cool item u own which u got by play the game,  which u have a great memory of how u got it? 

My Legendary Raid armor that I got with my Raid team without paying for anything. I had great times with my team working on getting better and getting past the bosses. I also immediately changed the skins so no one knows that it is raid armor. 

Edited December 15, 2021 by Neutra.6857