Anet needs to move away from Open World design and make new dungeons.

[Obtena.7952]

4 hours ago, Sir Alymer.3406 said:

There are:

30 artists
24 programmers
12 QA teams
7 Writers
24 designers

According to the wiki, using number of pages.

Let's say living world & Gemstore take half combined, rounded up.

Well WvW and PvP don't need writers so that leaves 3 writers for instanced content (Raids, Fractals, dungeons, strikes).

Then they'll just have to split the following into the 3 groups (WvW, PvP, Instanced PvE); 15 artists to do the work with the new rewards, 12 programmers to make the code for the new mechanics, if any, 6 QA members, 12 designers.  Remember, one guy designed SAB.  that's a lot of talent just going to waste there for months on end.

But hey, maybe if ANet didn't waste their time and money on side projects that went nowhere and actually invested  that money and profit into making GW2 sustainable beyond just LW, we'd have an actually well-rounded game with content release cadences that don't have any section waiting literal years for another piece of content and said content wouldn't have to be rebranded every other living world release.

I'm just going to put this out there ... maybe Wiki isn't the most accurate place to get personnel data ... just call it a hunch. 

The fact is that the best organization to determine where Anet should be using their resources and what content to develop (because this is a BUSINESS, not a charity) ... is Anet. 

Edited December 19, 2021 by Obtena.7952

[Stormcrow.7513]

I love dungeons and still play them for fun, and that will never change. 

GW1 for me was all about The Deep and FoW etc, that was just so much fun. 

I wish GW2 had more dungeons, I feel that even though the game has been out for ages that there still isn't enough dungeon style content, even with fractals. 

[CaffeeCup.5742]

4 hours ago, Artemis.8034 said:

They dont run dungeons because most people who have done them years ago they dont bother with them or actual clearing they just run ahead and leave new players in the dust. Then they wipe and quit. I think anet could tone down the amount of trash in dungeons and that people could slow down a bit....

 Hi, I don't mean to sound rude, but I, honestly, have not experienced the same..

I play NA, on SEA hours, so I don't know what time you play, but whenever I posted "newbie friendly, casual/no rush/cutscenes explorable mode" (I saw a LFG posting for aCoE casual friendly group like this and kinda copied it) for whatever dungeon some months ago, I always got a few kind veterans joining the party and patiently do the dungeon, even wait for cutscenes.  I would say I got lucky with a newbie friendly Aetherblade path, because it's super hard to get that one started, otherwise I've pretty much done all dungeon paths many times.

These days, I'm the one joining casual dungeon runs to help out the newbies, take our time and appreciate the content, the latest a couple days ago through Arah p4, they were non english speakers so it was a bit complicated explaining some boss mechanics, we struggled but got through it. 🙂

[Mik.3401]

A good game team would seek to release more of these with nice rewards and challenges. But this is not the case here so topics like this are just pointless

Edited December 18, 2021 by Mik.3401

[Gerebos.1065]

They are extremly preocupied for the new expansion  with locking everything behind mass achievement walls and hardcore group events for train services,please do not disturb them xD 

It would be really nice to have some new lore related dungeons like a new instance in Orr after Zaithan's demise... I hope devs will consider it soon

 

 

 

[Jianyu.7065]

I often find these discussions to be demanding and self-entitled. As if in general a person knows better than the developer and the developer simply must comply.

I dont agree with the OP. GW2 has arguably the most compelling MMO open world environment ever created. The game is always pulling the player toward exploring the world, and the player is given a variety of means by which to traverse the world. 

I frequently tell players who are looking for something that, by their preference, isnt there - to go find it in another game.

[Artemis.8034]

On 12/18/2021 at 1:55 PM, Ameepa.6793 said:

Open world is why I have been playing since launch. Force me into grouping and I'm out.

Who is forcing you? Instanced group content is just that its there for people that want to do it. A well balanced game can handle its content variety just fine. You get a lot of likes for making a statement that is not true and never would be true, MMORPGS were always about big open worlds thats not changing. But what would be nice is to have a system in place to make it easier for people to try instanced content. There are many players that would like to try some things but they are pretty much cut off with the ole link LI KP block. People say try training raids, yes great but then again the ones we have run by people that are good fill up so fast most never get in.

 

The idea that only a few people want to raid is actually wrong. Only a few can get into raid groups. But from the amount of people that apply to training raids and want to learn prove there is a large amount of people interested, they just dont have the options. No one counts them in the statistics because they get left behind.

Edited December 19, 2021 by Artemis.8034

[Astralporing.1957]

37 minutes ago, Artemis.8034 said:

Who is forcing you? Instanced group content is just that its there for people that want to do it.

You might want to look up at the topic of this very thread you post in. In case you didn't notice, it's "Anet needs to move away from Open World design and make new dungeons". I even bolded the relevant part for you.

[Artemis.8034]

3 hours ago, Astralporing.1957 said:

You might want to look up at the topic of this very thread you post in. In case you didn't notice, it's "Anet needs to move away from Open World design and make new dungeons". I even bolded the relevant part for you.

No i get that, but the two dont cut out each other. I mean you can have both for crying out loud. Unless your devs use sippy cups and bibs its not that hard to have both content. I mean dungeons are here they just need to be revitalized

[Gibson.4036]

2 minutes ago, Artemis.8034 said:

No i get that, but the two dont cut out each other. I mean you can have both for crying out loud. Unless your devs use sippy cups and bibs its not that hard to have both content. I mean dungeons are here they just need to be revitalized

Sure, but that’s not what the OP seems to have been advocating.

[FrigginPaco.4178]

Yes. And make it important to story.

[Sobx.1758]

Half of the OP's point isn't even really about somehow "abandoning OW and making new dungeons", but is just a complaint about "OW being hard". And I can't say I agree with him.

Edited December 20, 2021 by Sobx.1758

[vicky.9751]

open world is the only reason this game is still fun, to be honest. ffxiv hasn't done a great job of making older dungeons feel fun. there is also no level sync on maps in ffxiv, so you one shot everything.

Edited February 3, 2022 by vicky.9751

[Tails.9372]

17 hours ago, Artemis.8034 said:

There are many players that would like to try some things but they are pretty much cut off with the ole link LI KP block.

That's because the content is not made for them, "KP" only exists for content were things can go downhill / drag on for too long if players don't bring a certain level of performance / understanding of and willingness to do the mechanics.

You're right that many people would love to play instanced content in an environment tailor made for their enjoyment but the main issue here is A-Nets design philosophy of "non-story instanced content has to be more difficult".

[jesryl.9315]

I hope that we can play dungeons in solo mode, especially if we want to aquire legendaries. It takes forever for a casual working player like me to wait for parties that do dungeons for legendaries. If there are parties (which are rare), they choose those people that they know already and players like me are just left behind.

I Been playing this game for 8 years with no legendary armors because of this problem. 

 

I hope that Anet can make them available in solo mode so we can get the piece to comple the legendaries.

 

They can make a mechanism like making the piece as broken and needed multiple atemps for a solo player to complete (like pieces of all the right pieces of the legendary gear that you need to merge or assemble). They can make it as a ramdom pieces drops when playing the dungeon. Or if the solo player is lucky, they will get the complete piece.

 

[kharmin.7683]

Well, it is said that hope springs eternal, but I wouldn't count on it in the case of dungeons.  Anet won't be going back to discarded content.

[robertthebard.8150]

2 hours ago, Tails.9372 said:

That's because the content is not made for them, "KP" only exists for content were things can go downhill / drag on for too long if players don't bring a certain level of performance / understanding of and willingness to do the mechanics.

You're right that many people would love to play instanced content in an environment tailor made for their enjoyment but the main issue here is A-Nets design philosophy of "non-story instanced content has to be more difficult".

What makes you believe that this is limited to A-Net?  I can assure you that it's not.    Where it exists, it exists to provide challenge for those that are looking for it.  ESO and swtor both have instanced content designed for this very thing, and some of it is even story content, for swtor, anyway.  While Rappelz didn't have instanced dungeons initially, the dungeons they did have were harder content with the "trash mobs" being the equivalent of field bosses, not world bosses mind, just field bosses, with dungeon bosses in certain areas.  Even DDO, where all the content is instanced, had dungeons that were harder than regular content.

[Epsilon Indi.2031]

On 12/18/2021 at 3:46 PM, Obtena.7952 said:

I'm just going to put this out there ... maybe Wiki isn't the most accurate place to get personnel data ... just call it a hunch. 

The fact is that the best organization to determine where Anet should be using their resources and what content to develop (because this is a BUSINESS, not a charity) ... is Anet. 

Is that why the past few years we've been getting less and less actual content?  LW episodes farther apart, groundwork excuses, and  then the news that ANEt had to lay off ~130 people and drop a ton of side projects?  Yeah, let's let ANet continue making management decisions.  They've been so good at them before.

[yann.1946]

On 12/17/2021 at 5:17 PM, Mungrul.9358 said:

I experienced this myself recently.

Someone in guild chat asked if anyone wanted to join them for fractals. I said I wouldn't mind having a go, but that I wasn't experienced with them, and was told to at the very least go buy some expensive infusions before they would consider taking me along.

It wasn't said with malice, but it was enough to put me off of asking again, and made me aware that as a player relatively new to fractals, I'd be wasting the time of those more experienced who would have to spend time teaching me.

Edit: And this ties in to my desire for a drop-in playlist of instanced content balanced for random, anonymous play, so that you don't have to put up with barriers to entry put down by other players.

If I can try something anonymously without fear of annoying other players, it means I can learn, which will make me more likely to try other instanced content.

That example is more a gamedesign thing then a people putting up requirements thing. 

 

You need infusions to do fractals after all. 

[yann.1946]

On 12/18/2021 at 8:26 PM, Astralporing.1957 said:

Correlation does not imply causation. There was a ton of other potential reasons for that revenue dip you silently ignore. The announcement of "no expansion for you people" being most probably at the very top of that list.

Absolutely true, 

 

It would everyone good to remember that, especially when arguing for positions they agree with. 

[Alcatraznc.3869]

So far has been running decently with open world design, decent enough for Anet to releases 2 DLC and working on a third one.

 

That being said, I wouldnt mind having more dungeon to play. Budget aside, Open world design doesn't means no dungeon. But I guess strikes mission are sort of mini dungeon ? 

[Obtena.7952]

11 hours ago, Sir Alymer.3406 said:

Is that why the past few years we've been getting less and less actual content?  

I don't know the reason why content releases have changed, but I'm not the one making any claims about it anyways so your question doesn't make sense. 

The fact is that YOU were making conclusions based on information that is likely incorrect or incomplete. Even if you want to portray Anet as not being good. pretending you know better isn't going to work. What I said was true ... only Anet is best placed to make those decisions, even if you don't think they are the right ones. Do they make the best desicions every time? Probably not ... but those are their decisions to make based on the information they have to make them ... and that's a WAY better position to be in than any player thinks they can be. 

Edited December 21, 2021 by Obtena.7952

[AquaBR.9250]

On 12/17/2021 at 7:14 AM, Dromar.1027 said:

I recently came back to the game because I'm heavily invested in it and wanted to experience Cantha when EoD hits...

 

However upon doing HoT, Pof and LS the maps are just as painful as I remember. Your marred with cliffs and barriers constantly that it makes a person want to scream. Not to mention the mobs and environmental effects that boot you off your mount and kill you in two or three hits. I really had hoped Anet learned a lesson and went back to rework the dungeons so GW2 had a more well-rounded MMO formula of Open World>Dungeons>Raids but I can see they are still hellbent on making the open world as painful as possible. How about instead of making open world so torturous you go back and put that energy into dungeon design outside of Fractals. This game needs more and better dungeons; not open world maps that with mindless gathering and content that foster thoughts of keyboard smashing.

 

At the very least make past map metas easier to complete with a smaller group please. Also for the record I love Fractals and before GW2 was released I was anticipating the original concept of dungeons being a very in depth, 5 man exploratory map where you kill bosses. What ever happened to that concept?

 

I know this seems like a kick in the groin but the abandonment of dungeons doesn't mean the idea within GW2 is bad it just means a lack of talent is present with dungeons.

This idea of the well design maps being "bad" or "painful" to navigate is from people that don't like to explore at all and prefer plane bland horizontal 2d maps where you just walk straigh everywhere you want, might as well put some mail quests where the objective is just talking to another npc, so you have no challenge at all

[Epsilon Indi.2031]

7 hours ago, Obtena.7952 said:

I don't know the reason why content releases have changed, but I'm not the one making any claims about it anyways so your question doesn't make sense. 

The fact is that YOU were making conclusions based on information that is likely incorrect or incomplete. Even if you want to portray Anet as not being good. pretending you know better isn't going to work. What I said was true ... only Anet is best placed to make those decisions, even if you don't think they are the right ones. Do they make the best desicions every time? Probably not ... but those are their decisions to make based on the information they have to make them ... and that's a WAY better position to be in than any player thinks they can be. 

I was going to sit down and link you to all the articles and discussion on reddit surrounding the layoffs  and why they were done  (with cited sources to boot) but I don't think showing you that, for the past  few years, ANet hasn't been focusing on making GW2 the best game it could be and, instead, dumping development resources into projects that went nowhere  would actually convince you that you're objectively wrong.

ANet's mismanagement is also a very common complaint about them on Glassdoor.  But what do I know? 

 

[voltaicbore.8012]

I agree with the "more instanced small group content would be nice" part, but heavily, heavily disagree with the "GW2 needs to move away from open world" part of @Dromar.1027's OP. 

I believe GW2 simply cannot move its focus towards more classic instanced content, thanks to this:  

On 12/18/2021 at 12:39 AM, Shikaru.7618 said:

Unfortunately, unlike Destiny 2, it is VERY easy to build your character incorrectly/inefficiently in guild wars 2. Drop in play has to account for people who play a condition damage weapon with full healing power and 0 condition damage because the game does not give you any feedback on how to improve when combat gets rough for you. For content to not be concerned with build you'd need to make the bar so low that they might as well make an open world instance where people are spamming 1 and hit the majority audience. 

This is the shadow side of the build freedom we get in this game. Because the game allows you to pick traits, utilities, weapons, and gear stats quite freely within a class... people have quite freely chosen to make utter garbage builds. That's fine in any other game, where the game itself will let you know very clearly if something isn't going right.

Not so in GW2, where famously the top ten sweaty metagamers can hard carry (literally do 10x the output) of the rest of the players plinking on a boss. You can be utterly in the dark about how the game and your class works, but both (1) the game's easy encounters and (2) the generally friendly PvE population will just quietly carry you to boss kills and big chests without you ever figuring out how bad you are.

More instanced content will either be extremely generic (so the average "I have no clue, that I have no clue" player can do it), or a ton of groups filled via LFG will run headfirst into failure. Neither option is what OP wants, but is probably what OP would get if the proposed shift happens.