More Info on Strike Missions, Balance, and Rewards in End of Dragons

[Tails.9372]

47 minutes ago, Petr.4102 said:

There is no real challenge in strikes...  you learn them once, they will be same forever

Except that is the essence of challenging content, challenges are meant to be overcome and once you did the challenge is gone. What you're alluding to here is difficulty.

30 minutes ago, Eleazar.9036 said:

It's just a bit more accessible

Not even, strikes are not more accessible than fractals.

In spite of the fact that even T1 fractals are still "above their paygrade" (in some ways even more so than some of the strikes) you will find a lot more new players that try to go into fractals because a lot of the things that actually scare away many of "the average casual players" just aren't there.

Edited February 14, 2022 by Tails.9372

[Izzy.2951]

13 minutes ago, Tails.9372 said:

Except that is the essence of challenging content, challenges are meant to be overcome and once you did the challenge is gone. What you're alluding to here is difficulty.

Not even, strikes are not more accessible than fractals.

In spite of the fact that even T1 fractals are still "above their paygrade" (in some ways even more so than some of the strikes) you will find a lot more new players that try to go into fractals because a lot of the things that actually scare away many of "the average casual players" just aren't there.

 

Yup Fractals T1 are "more accesible" than Strikes, but they give nothing (more or less the same as the strikes we have now). The thing is you can do strikes normal mode with full exotic, learn really fast and its not that hard. 

How much time do a new/returnee player need to get full ascended with good AR, get to T4/CM fractals, and get the title god of fractal to start getting those juicy rewards to work towards their legendary? idk. Its nonsense in a game that wants to provide "similar equipment".

PD: I also dont understand why getting a full ascended gear in Strikes nowadays is soooo slow. This could have been a more common change that the "complete fractal nerf".

Edited February 15, 2022 by Izzy.2951

[Petr.4102]

6 minutes ago, Izzy.2951 said:

 

1st you are already saying that Fractals are already rewarding even without the rng mistic coin with all the stuff they have (titles, skins etc etc..). You still havent played the new strikes and you are already saying they are boring, you dont know if theres gonna be a title or a long term achivement, you dont know how Strikes CMs even are, or if theres gonna be cool skins/infusions or watever.

Basically what i get from here is "oh i was doing this", i spent a lot of time to get my fractal god title and i dont want it to ever change. Even if new/returnee ppl cant access it, even if its OP compared to any other thing... cool stuff.

Isnt fractals as repetitive as all instanced content once you know the mechanics?  appart that you need ascended gear, a certain amount of AR and fractal god to earn more rewards XD 

Actually, I am saying it is rewarding for some time (60 more days till Fractal God). But none of those things are of monetary value by themselves. Not like you can cash it in to build legendary weapon. They just decreased likelyhood of continuing doing it after finishing the long term goals. Or whether I will want to suffer for 60 more runs to acomplish them.

And yes, I am saying they are boring. The same way of boring as all the strike missions that are there...  same as d DRM are... and the non-CM fractals...  (fine I like uncategorized fractal, but that is an exception). Maybe strike CMs will be more interesting, but if there is no better reward than from regular ones, or if it is one-time reward like from Raids? That is one run and I am done.

I am not saying the bosses will not have interesting mechanics, or there will not be interesting backstory. I am looking forward to it to play it few times. But if it is aimed at casual players, 3-4 runs and I am done with it. Forging steel is really good story and events, I like it the most. But you can't fail, you can solo it, it just takes eternity and for what reward? Having challenging content with no reward is boring to repeat, having boring content with good reward is also boring to repeat. 

You probably never did fractal CMs, right? You have never felt that "Nice!" moment when you opened the chest and saw those 2 or 3 coins appear there. Integrated matrices? Fine, I will flush them down the Fractal God toilet, 150 Blade shards? Ok, I guess I will craft 3rd spinal blades pack. With MC, you knew you are few more coins closer to your next legendary. 

What they are saying is "You were doing something challenging and sometimes received something nice? No go do a casual content and you will get it 100%".

That is another factor in it. MCs were random. You never knew you will get one. You were not expecting to get it, but it is really nice feeling when you get some. Even going as far as "racing" who will get more MCs on that day, who is more lucky. Being told that I will get exactly 10 each month when I do this amount of strikes? It takes away the surprise. It takes away the feeling of being lucky. It turns it into a chore.
 

[Infusion.7149]

Honestly maybe the line of thinking should be reverting mystic clover costs in fractals and then changing it to be 1 "discounted" clover per day for fractals from the vendor. The savings would probably be greater.
Per fast farming after the change the payoff of going with fractal relics is going to be extremely low , dropping from about 1.5 silvers to 50 copper
https://fast.farming-community.eu/conversions/fractal-relic

I don't understand the need for rewarding magnetite shards, since someone did the math and with current pricing you're better off converting to the vanity +5 stat infusions as far as gaetling crystals. 2 MC + 30 magnetite is valued at 2.5silvers to 3.6silvers/shard so one mystic clover costs you ~5 gold. If this is to be put in place then weekly magnetite cap should be higher.
https://fast.farming-community.eu/conversions/magnetite-shard
https://fast.farming-community.eu/conversions/gaeting-crystal

If EOD strikes are to be the most rewarding just make the cap 2 per day or 14/week from EOD strikes. In addition, the mystic coin payout could be higher, as those coins aren't free and come with a longer time investment.

In essence it should really be considered :
* Fractals 1 per day 1 Mystic Coin ---> clover using current rates = 7 clovers
* EOD strikes 2 per day Mystic Coin or 14/week --> clover = 14 clovers
* Raids 1 per day 1 Mystic Coin --> clover  or 7/week = 7 clovers
Total = 28

As far as coins, even if removed from fractal CMs, there really ought to be 25 or more per week , the system proposed only offers 10 mystic coins per week, why is this not 20 per week? You only get 20 per month from logins, which effectively 5 per week.
In essence in the proposed system if you only get 7 total from leyline + 10 from strikes + 5 from logins = 22. Strikes should probably allow for 15 coins a week.

P.S. Don't forget about your WVW players. They only get 6 mystic coins a week from skirmish tracks if capping diamond skirmish, I would like to see mystic clovers for emblems. If you take 20 hours to do skirmish tracks then it is going to be 4 clovers from reward tracks unless you run boosters.

Edited February 15, 2022 by Infusion.7149

[AliamRationem.5172]

3 hours ago, Rubi Bayer.8493 said:

Hello everyone, I have a message below from one of our developers! This is in English only for the time being but we are in the process of having it localized and will share it on our French, German, and Spanish forums as soon as possible. 

 

Hi peeps; I'm Solar, and I co-authored the blog on strikes and rewards that went up on Friday afternoon.

We’re aware of concerns the community has over the information and would like to give everyone some real numbers that should clear things up a lot!

 1: Mystic Coin drop rates in fractal Challenge Modes

Average Mystic Coins earned for a session in which you complete all three Fractal
Your average Mystic Coins earned for a session in which you complete all three Fractal CMs is 1.92. Specifically:

• 0.72 Mystic Coins for playing 98 CM
• 0.72 Mystic Coins for playing 98 CM
• 0.48 Mystic Coins for playing 100 CM

 Mystic Coin drop rates are 14% per boss kill, but because you can get 1, 2, or 3 at a time the average coins per kill are 0.24. Since this is an average, that is the top of the bell curve over a long period of consistent play. The more you play, the closer you are to that lifetime rate. Any divergence is temporary and only seen in small data samples.

 So, although you can get 3 Mystic Coins in one night, you’re just as likely to get 1. While you could get 6 Mystic Coins in one night…you’re much more likely to get zero. But it stands out as a positive moment when you get back-to-back 3-coin drops from MAMA and Siax, and you’re more likely to remember that than the times you got zero.

 2: Monthly Mystic Coin average earnings from playing fractal Challenge Modes every day
If you play all three fractal CMs consistently every day for a month (let’s say 28 days to be consistent with login rewards and weekly reward resets), your average Mystic Coin income for that month from fractal CMs is 53.76.

 Again, this is an average—the more you've played, the closer you are to that rate. In the short term you may see less or more in each month, but you have the same chance to earn either less or more.

 3: How much profit is “lost” from fractal Challenge Modes:
This means that

• Nightmare 98 CM is worth 0.72 fewer Mystic Coins than it previously was.
• Observatory 99 CM is worth 0.72 fewer Mystic Coins.
• Sunqua Peak 100 CM is worth 0.48 fewer Mystic Coins.

 Let’s say a Mystic Coin is worth 1.7 gold, using a fairly stable price from last week (as you’ll see, this weekend’s price bump won’t reflect long-term trends). You pay 15% of that in trading post fees from selling it, resulting in 1g, 45s sale profit.
So:

• 98CM: 0.72 MCs * 1.45g = 1.04g
• 99CM: 0.72 MCs * 1.45g = 1.04g
• 100CM: 0.48 MCs * 1.45g = 0.70g

But since Mystic Coins are on the same drop table as equipment and ectoplasm—and you can get multiple ectos--you're not getting nothing instead of a Mystic Coin drop. You’re getting an equipment drop or ectoplasm instead. Average value there is a little over 30s due to the drop chance for multiple ectos.

Without going into too much extra detail, the total gold reduction in dropped item value for all three Challenge Modes combined is a bit under 2.7g, which is less than 1g per fractal CM.

4: How hard will it be to earn Mystic Coins from Guild Wars 2: End of Dragons Strike Missions?
Pretty easy, actually! The expansion has four new Strike Missions. Playing through all four on Normal difficulty will award 40 Green Prophet Shards.

On your first completion of the week, you'll also get 5 more shards from a Daily Priority Strike achievement (which rotates daily), and 25 more shards from a weekly achievement to complete all four strikes.

Together, that means that your first normal-difficulty EoD strike playthrough in a given week will award 70 green prophet shards. That's enough to purchase 7 of the weekly 10 Mystic Coins from the End of Dragons strike vendor, so a second playthrough in that same week will get you enough shards for the rest!

 4: How do Strike Mission Mystic Coins compare to lost fractal Challenge Mode Mystic Coins?
To get the maximum 40 mystic coins a month from EoD strikes, a player will have to play normal difficulty strikes twice a week for four weeks.

 By comparison, to get the average 53.76 mystic coins from Fractal CMs a player must complete all three CMs every day for 28 days. Normal difficulty strikes have a much lower barrier to entry in terms of difficulty and how many you need to play to earn their Mystic Coin rewards.

 Clearing up some misconceptions:

Do most Mystic Coins come from Fractal Challenge Modes?

This was unclear in the blog post. They're one of the largest possible sources that a single player can earn, but not the most common source.

 93% of Mystic Coins come from login rewards. The remaining 7% includes Ley Line Anomaly, WvW Gold/Platinum chests, fractal daily chests, Mystic Forger daily mission, and fractal Challenge Modes. Fractal Challenge Modes are one of the smaller sources. They’re not played as much relative to other sources because the content is very difficult and exclusive.

 Will this make Mystic Coins rarer?
No, it will make them more common. Strike Missions are much more accessible than fractal Challenge Modes and are played by significantly more people—and we hope to grow participation numbers in Guild Wars 2: End of Dragons.

Earning the 40 mystic coins a week from strikes will require completing strikes twice a week, for four weeks. Getting the same number of coins from fractal CMs would have required 21 days of completing all three fractal CMs.

This is going to increase the amount of Mystic Coins generated and sold by players looking to turn them into gold.

 Will more expensive “discounted” Mystic Clovers double the demand for Mystic Coins?

Only a very small number of the Mystic Coins consumed each week are used to purchase Mystic Clovers from the fractal vendor. Nearly all coins consumed per week go into Mystic Forge recipes for Mystic Clovers or are used directly in legendary crafting. This change will not have any real impact on Mystic Coin supply, consumption, or prices across the player population.

 Will this make it it easier for more casual players to make legendaries?
Yes. Players who don't have access to some of the more difficult sources of legendary crafting resources like fractal CMs and the fractal Mystic Clover trade will be able to earn incremental legendary progress from easier sources, particularly Guild Wars 2: End of Dragons Strike Missions.

 We're hoping that once those players try out Strike Missions, they'll find that they love 10-player cooperative content and train up with their friends to try out harder things in the future, including strike Challenge Modes and raids! We want more players to craft and enjoy legendary weapons, and this is part of that.

 Challenge Mode Strike Missions

Challenge Mode Strike Missions will not be immediately available when Guild Wars 2: End of Dragons launches. We’ve been playtesting them for months internally and I think they’re a ton of fun, but we want normal mode to go out first so we can fix any bugs and polish the encounters after seeing the strategies players develop in the live game.

 These are intended to be as difficult as raid encounters, and will give 1 Legendary Insight per week, among other things. The main difference is that since those encounters have a lower difficulty mode, you’ll be able to learn them and train other players before playing the Challenge Mode version.

 Closing thoughts:
It's natural to make assumptions about what is common or normal based on our own habits and capabilities and extrapolate that out to the rest of the player community, but most Guild Wars 2 players have few methods for working directly on their legendary goals. Much of it is earned from the 7 clovers a month from the final login track reward!

 The feeling of working hard for something and finding out it’s going to be easily accessible to others in the future can feel bad, and that feeling is real and valid. But you’ve made a ton of tangible progress in fractal Challenge Modes and other people having access to that in the future doesn’t take away from everything you’ve accomplished.

 I hope this gives some more insight into how we think about reward design and clarifies some of the changes coming in Guild Wars 2: End of Dragons .

Thanks for the response @Rubi Bayer.8493 .  Would you be able to answer any questions about the future of fractals as a game mode?  Are more fractals in development currently?  If so, when might we see something released?

[Xtrem.4931]

13 hours ago, Izzy.2951 said:

 

I mean you are saying in other words, i can make x100 times more money in GW2 than a new/returnee player (not by being more skilled or playing more), just cos i have sitted in GW2 for ages, have full ascended with good AR and a title that grants me more loot. Idk if thats really fair, dont you think?

Im not saying challenging content should be rewarding, im just saying by the metrics Fractals are wayyyy more rewarding than any other content and its very unacesible, the devs have already stated theres loads of more people playing Strikes (even with bad rewards) than Fractals CM.

I dont think that GW2 will grow by denying access to new/returnee people to content (cos gear needed or cos difficulty jumps). I mean you are already gonna make much more gold than any other player in EoD cos you will do Fractals CMs, raids etc, have alts on chests etc... but just not as much with fractals cms, thats the real point.

PD: i will leave fractals CM with 0-1 rng drop of mistic coin, thats my thoughts.

What the hell is wrong whit you? i didnt say that. I'm fine if doing fractals Cm you can get 30 g/h and doing Drizzlewod you can get 35 g/h, the actual t4 daily chest are more rewarded than the Cm's and nobody is complaining about it. The thing  is i think the actual rewards for fractals cm are fair for the effort doing it, but if you remove the mc there are not.

I like so many content of Gw2 and i'm glad if the other people can get 35g/h doing "easy" and "simple things", i dont care what the other people gets, if you are a person that like pvp, wvw or whatever i will be very happy if you can get 35g/h doing the things you like. I like the harcore content and i only want to get a just reward and it dont need to be more than the others, i think 30g/h is fine and i dont need to be equal as others that maybe does an easier content.

I only want to get a fair and just amount of gold to purchase cool things doing the content i like.

 

Also no, i'm more casual player as you think i only do fractals and raids, and when i have time i lead Dragonfall, the only differences is i like the hardcore and difficulty content, maybe you saw me any day leading dragonfall  as "Aranessa Hellfang" from "SUS". I'm the guy whit more than 1600 keys tryng to make everyone get keys during 2h and worried because one cull can be done very fast and making the tail of the squad losing the key.

I'm the first worried about the new players, and the player whit less things than me, that can be dont have the skyscale on Dragonfall or revive a killed player instead of jumping to the next champion because i want to make a good and enjoiable game for everyone.

Also because i know how hard can be enter in this content, have a few things and start in the game i try to help ever i see new or lost people. I give an oportunity to everyone who ask me join in those content whitout the "kp" and never kicked nobody if there is no absolutly necesarry and after tried whit all things teach these player to keep them in the squad and help him as i can, entering in raids whit a very low li demand to cover a hard role and help, losing hours teaching and guiding random new players i find doing recs... etc. 

 

Dont dare to say you know me, because you dont. I worked very hard to have what i have and because i know how hard can be at the start or some things because i been through it, i do my best to help those new people.

Edited February 15, 2022 by Xtrem.4931

[Dreggon.6598]

I'm just gonna say it - why do announcements always have smaller font?

[Petr.4102]

31 minutes ago, Izzy.2951 said:

 

I mean you are saying in other words, i can make x100 times more money in GW2 than a new/returnee player (not by being more skilled or playing more), just cos i have sitted in GW2 for ages, have full ascended with good AR and a title that grants me more loot. Idk if thats really fair, dont you think?

Im not saying challenging content should be rewarding, im just saying by the metrics Fractals are wayyyy more rewarding than any other content and its very unacesible, the devs have already stated theres loads of more people playing Strikes (even with bad rewards) than Fractals CM.

I dont think that GW2 will grow by denying access to new/returnee people to content (cos gear needed or cos difficulty jumps). I mean you are already gonna make much more gold than any other player in EoD cos you will do Fractals CMs, raids etc, have alts on chests etc... but just not as much with fractals cms, thats the real point.

PD: i will leave fractals CM with 0-1 rng drop of mistic coin, thats my thoughts.

Making 100x more money in GW2 because someone spent ages playing that game? Who is stopping you? Go make that "100x" more money too. Find 4 friends, start doing fractals. Reach scale 100. Do you think our group knew how to beat fractals? No. Do you think our group knew how to beat Raids? No. We were learning mechanics and failing. We learnt new builds, we learnt how to not die. We learnt mechanics and over time managed to do bosses. Over time it got easier. It is 100 CM with Fraility, Boon Overload and Fractal Vindicators? Well...   we will probably wipe 3-5 times. It happens.

You cry it is unacessible. Why is it? You do not want to spend time to learn boss? You do not want to spend time learning your class? You do not want to spend time on building a group of 5 people? Are you lazy? Want to join with random peoples, be healed by 3 scourges so much your barrier is never lower than 50% of you health and when you ignore Boneskinner's red circles, they teleport your corpse out of the way and ress you? And then you say "ty for run, bb", loot the chest and go your way? Where is the fun in that?

What about actually learning the mechanics? What about trying to improve yourself? You can clear Fractal CMs even with unoptimal trashy builds...   just go with Marauder instead of Berserker. Or go Soldier. Will it take longer? Yes. Will you fail many times? Yes. Will the reward be not worth the effort at the begining? Definitely, but you will improve over time and you will get better in other content too. 

PS you really think, that having alts on chests is "fun way to farm"?

[Obtena.7952]

5 hours ago, LSD.4673 said:

"93% of Mystic Coins come from login rewards"

Who'd have thunk'd it? Now, the real question is what percentage of those are actual players vs login scripts...

The best part is when you realize it doesn't matter. In fact, I would say those MC's created by any login script are MOST likely to get in the hands of players via the TP because they are likely just there to earn gold, not craft account-locked gear. 

[Xainou.1502]

Nope, those numbers are nice to know and logical, but I still feel screwed over.

I'll say it again, fractal CMs are endgame content. HARD endgame content. You say there's only about 7% of the players running those, but we are running them. We've put all that effort into learning our stuff and spend the time. Because the rewards are worth it.
I don't understand why you think this needs to change. And quite honestly, it's insulting to know that the amount of coins generated from CMs isn't even a grain of sand compared to the amount gained from login rewards. Yet it's the one getting removed.

People running the CMs are either working on their fractal masteries or have already completed them. I'd say on average there's at least one other fractal god in my runs, and I'm still on the lower end of UFE. Relics aren't a big deal for us, unless they come with the option to do somethig useful with them, like trade them for clovers.
But now you're taking away the coins from the content that should logically provide them. Even worse, you decide to double the amount of coins needed and lower the weekly cap. This seems so incredibly backwards. Why do we not deserve to be rewarded?

Also, yes you want people play the new strikes. And some of the players will, some won't. I don't see the fractal CMs changing that. It's not like people are spending hours in there daily, plus it's a whole different group size to start with. What I feel like is much more likely to happen is the regulars will check out the new content and if it ends up being worth it, will from their own groups with the requirement of being experienced. You're not magically you're going to push someone who enjoys getting stuff done effectively and fast towards the "all welcome" part of lfg.


Leave the coins where they are and let people choose what they want to play.

[Nene Zen.7308]

I'm going to echo basically everyone else: if CMs provide so few mystic coins to the game, why remove them at all from CM rewards? Why would you further disincentivise people from playing challenging content?

[Gorem.8104]

This post sounds so... disconnected to what actually goes on in game. 
Instead of nerfing rewards for doing the hardest 5man content the game has to offer, it is being removed and placed into 10man content that is found only if you own EoD. And please, even though I never do strikes I don't want to see a super easy mode given like WoW has with its LFG mode that contains bosses you can solo while blind deaf and both hands off the keyboard. 

Doing the hardest 5man content on offer should be rewarding, now essentially CM"s are pointless to do after a certain point. Is that the plan? When content gets too old to just nerf it and abandon it? What new 5 man content is in the works after fractals then? 

[Visbale.6951]

I'm sorry, Mr/Ms Game Master, but all your augment turn to senseless when you say that Mystic Coins doens't have good profit on CM fractals. Lemme question: If the content doesn't give us a good way to farm them, why did you would remove them from fractals?

People stopped Raids cause they can't farm a good gold there, and when you finish your legendary sets, there's no more reason to play a content with: toxic players and junk rewards. (cof cof, ascended - legendary insight/divination).

Those changes that you are planning make me happy, because you are thinking of spreading new ways to get Clovers, this is awesome!
Buying Clovers on Strikes and Raids is a really good move, this can make those game modes enjoyable and useful to make legendary items, but remove Coins from fractal it's so... (????) I don't know what to think with this decision...

It's like: Hey guys, there is a new options to make Clover! Come and see!
And then: Sorry, you can't make Clovers with those new options cause we're endind the way you can get Coins! (?????)

You got what I'm trying to say?!

Thats why you're seeing to much people complaining about that, cause there no much way to farm this material and with those changes we'll get even less! Only people with multiple alt accounts will have more access to them, just loging every day on them alt accounts...

If you're planning to limit farm of Coins on Strikes to 10, you could easily to do same things on Fractals and Raids, doing weekly achievements that will reward players with them. You guys didn't thinked about it?

And plus, I always ask myself why ANET don't make others useless materials in something useful? I mean: what can I do with Legendary Insight/Divination, Pristine/Fractal Relics, Emblem of the Avenger/Conquer when i already finished my achievements/legendary sets?
Now they are only junk, stored in some character/bank of mine. Even Ascended items are useless in some point of the game, cause you spend more gold buying Ascended Salvage Kit, than receive good materials from them. 

Instead of give us the chance to buy Clovers only with Mystic Coins, you could give us the opportunity to spend these other useless items, and also, the opportunity to receive Coins salvaging Ascended Items.

What you think to change the decision to buy Clovers with Magnetite Shards/Gaeting Crystals, and instead to this, give us the oportunity to buy them with Legendary Insight/Divination without the use of Mystic Coin? And the same porpuse to Pristine Fractals? With these planned changes I have no more reason to do Fractal CMs, cause i'll only get coins that I can't spend in something that can't give me profit or will be useful to craft legendary items.

Hope you read what i'm trying to say.

And please, give us a chance to do something with those junk I mentioned, I'm already tired and really annoyed of keeping this garbage in my characters/bank.

Well... Good talk.

Cya. 🙂

Edited February 15, 2022 by Visbale.6951
Text Format

[Radina.6057]

7 hours ago, Rubi Bayer.8493 said:

 The feeling of working hard for something and finding out it’s going to be easily accessible to others in the future can feel bad, and that feeling is real and valid. But you’ve made a ton of tangible progress in fractal Challenge Modes and other people having access to that in the future doesn’t take away from everything you’ve accomplished.

 

This line is so funny. So Anet full heartedly believes the people who play CMs are just gatekeepers, who dont want to share their spoils. Who dont want to "spread the love".

 

Guess what. I dont care if Coins get yeeted into peoples hands. You already can play the meta for 1 coin every day with as many accounts as you want for zero effort. Strikes, you make it sound like it, will just be as bad as the current version, which needs about as much character and gameplay knowledge as the tangled depth meta. Some of them even less.

 

CM players are mad because we get treated like filthy stuff sticking on your shoe. Getting called gatekeepers is just the next insult.

 

7 hours ago, Rubi Bayer.8493 said:

But since Mystic Coins are on the same drop table as equipment and ectoplasm—and you can get multiple ectos--you're not getting nothing instead of a Mystic Coin drop. You’re getting an equipment drop or ectoplasm instead. Average value there is a little over 30s due to the drop chance for multiple ectos.

 

Please. Look at your loot table. The chances for ectos are bad. We will get trash we dont care about most of the time. Btw. Ascended Chest are also ordered in the trash category for a majority of your CM playerbase. 

 

MCs, even the low number of ones that still get rewarded in CMs, is a major driving factor for everyone involved, because we care about legendary crafting. Even just creating a daily achievment that rewards you a single Coin for the completion of the three CMs would be enough for most. Make high end content, that requires hours of learning, drop high end materials. Give the ascended stuff to people that need them. Strikes rewarding that stuff will make those people just as, or even more happy, and makes them able to gear towards fractals, which still is a massive pain in the backside.

Edited February 15, 2022 by Radina.6057

[Tails.9372]

3 hours ago, Izzy.2951 said:

How much time do a new/returnee player need to get full ascended with good AR, get to T4/CM fractals, and get the title god of fractal to start getting those juicy rewards to work towards their legendary?

The answer to this is ofc. none at all as all the relevant fractal currencies can be farmed in T1. Playing on higer fractal tiers just reduces the grind for them and stuff like "god of fractal" has nothing to do with the various legendaries that require you to play FotM.

[ShadowElf.1975]

I really enjoy fractal cm's, so natually i am not too happy about the upcoming changes. The clarified numbers deffinetly help having a positive discussion about it, So thank you so very much 😁.

When talking about the "loss" of profit for cm's you should propably mention how much they are worth in the first place. And it's 6-7g for the multiboss cms and about 5g for 100. (Very limited data from fastfarming.eu)
With some crude assumptions thats 10% of the entire fractal. If i'm reading the fastfarming data correctly that might just put them under doing some random fractals (not even the daily specific ones) in terms of gold per hour. Also farming in Drizzlewood is more profitable at this point. 
That might really reduce the number of people playing it and make finding a group at least bit more difficult and in the worst case like searching for a group for dungeons.

Some alternative to the MC profit may be to be given a possibility to convert some of the fractal currencies into profit beside doing fractal god. Those should propably not be limited by a daily purchase limit. Or at least not limited in a way that you dont need to do the cm's to affort it repeatadly.

Also what i just realise i'm not sure if we heard, about content that is in the difficulty level of a raid cm. 🤔

[Jski.6180]

No realty info on balancing for the classes here though i guess he did post about it on reddit. I hope we get more info on balancing soon.

[Linken.6345]

31 minutes ago, Jski.6180 said:

No realty info on balancing for the classes here though i guess he did post about it on reddit. I hope we get more info on balancing soon.

Well it is happening in the summer so they got plenty of time to give us info closer to release.

[keramatzmode.1906]

You speak in circles reward person. 
It's no secret login rewards are the ones flooding the MC market without playing the game (unless you want to spin the fact that typing passwords 40 times everyday is a GW2 core gameplay).
If CM does not contribute to overflowing Mystic Coins into the Trading Post, then why the minority of the playerbase is getting shafted? 2.7 gold per CM daily is STILL 2.7 gold. And again, CM runners are less likely to sell it because of MYSTIC TRIBUTE. Gen 2 legendaries are more premium than Gen 1. Some trinkets needs Mystic Coins.
And if a small number of players buy mystic clover from the fractal vendor, why would you nerf it even more?
Stop lying and be honest with us once of why you planned all this. Is it because you are willing to take the risk of losing the 10% of players to make 90% happy? Or you want to keep the gatekeeping barons with 50+ alt accounts and keep their MC wall up for quite some time without risking MC flooding into the market? It's funny because despite your heavy "acceptance" and "diversity" agenda of the game, you did the exact opposite when it comes to exploiting your minority playerbase, disregarding their PvE, WvW or PvP activities preferences.
Worse, why even announce the nerf 14 days before the expac? Something does NOT add up.

Edited February 15, 2022 by keramatzmode.1906

[Ashantara.8731]

9 hours ago, KurokouNekoki.7891 said:

Got to say I'm slightly disappointed that all the changes are pushed exclusively for the Hardcore content, rather than trying to balance both the hardcore and the casual play for this.

While this change doesn't affect me personally, as I rarely step foot into CM Fracs, I have to agree.

Someone else I talked to today made an excellent suggestion:
Just remove Mystic Coins as drops from endgame content altogether and implement vendors-only instead that will exchange a wide variety of currencies for Mystic Coins. That way, no one will feel neglected and everyone will have the same chance of acquiring them without feeling pushed to play across all game modes (not everything is for everyone, after all).

[Duos.3217]

This post and the changes explain alternate ways that will introduce concerning gold making and mc making. But what about the health of fractal CMs as a content as well as the players who would like to run seclusively or mostly fractal content? We had some relevant experience when they change the end reward of dungeons but they didn t compensate the reward loss in any alternatively way.

Instead, the dungeon popularity went down and for those chasing the tokens and the skins, tyrian voucher form festivals, wvw/pvp tracks introduced and the dungeoneer. All solutions that didn t solve the issue of that specific content going down.

All that, cause I fear that the history repeats itself. Fractals will still be a popular content but when it comes to CMs and the difference between running normal vs CMs in terms rewarding the extra skill and the effort being very thin.

[LSD.4673]

5 hours ago, Obtena.7952 said:

The best part is when you realize it doesn't matter. In fact, I would say those MC's created by any login script are MOST likely to get in the hands of players via the TP because they are likely just there to earn gold, not craft account-locked gear. 

In what way does your guess suggest it "doesn't matter"...? 

[Gladiotor.7561]

EoD strikes better be more challenging than IBS strikes. I played them a few times and they are very boring. 

Fractal CM's were challenging to learn. To everyone that says that they are not accessible for new players: everyone had to start at T1. Every player that does cm's had to follow trainings and went through countless wipes. You cant expect a new player to just get access to endgame content by veterans, unless you have a really nice guild. I also give trainings from time to time and fill up with pugs. But you need to want to invest time. I recently started raiding and also had to find training groups and build up some kp. You gotta put in some effort in a game...

Removing mc's as drops when also saying they only made up a small percentage of the mc supply just makes me sad. If anything you couldve nerfed the drops to 0-1 mc per boss instead of 0-3. 

You killed dungeons and i feel like youre about to kill fractals and i hope i am wrong. Everyone deserves access to good rewards. Also casual players. I cant stand open world bosses but for all i care give them better rewards to compensate. But dont take away good rewards from people who enjoy endgame content. You made fun challenges for us and we worked hard to beat them...

Clovers being buyable with raid-strikes-fractal currency: good

Coin changes: bad

Please revise your decisions 😞

 

[HotDelirium.7984]

10 hours ago, bean.1497 said:

While your intent was to justify the decision, this has only made our question louder: If MCs from Fractal CMs re such a statistically minor impact on the overall economy, why remove them at all?

 

Or, is it possible ANet is removing rewards from popular endgame content in an attempt to drive us to the new expansion content? You're pitching it as a carrot but boy does it feel like a stick.

I mean....would you define that as diabolical or a business decision? Think of it from their point of view- shifting players to eod means you are, on some level, being forced to pay for the expansion and while the optics don't look altruistic its either incentivize a small buy-in to keep the company afloat or continue to go under. Guild Wars 2 might be a fun game but its not reaping in a ton of new revenue which they naturally would never blatantly admit to. Using a super rough estimate...let's say all 250,000 average concurrent players buy the 30$ expansion. That's still only 7 and a half million but it would help ensure the company survive at least for the next couple of years. Not to sound too dire but it does seem like we NEED players to buy EOD.

[Firebeard.1746]

So why won't the new strike CMs give their own form of LI? If they're meant to be a continuation of raids, then their material should be convertable into both of the previous forms. That's always how it's been with the weird exception of LI being convertable to LD in limited amounts if your account is old and you've killed SH.