Rate the New Specs

[Crab Fear.1624]

3 hours ago, felix.2386 said:

anyone who put bladesworn higher then C, plays only low tier ranked pvp.

this spec has 0 place in any organized 5v5 high end tournament

Vaanss has been playing the bladesworn in PvP. I saw him in probably 4 matches today, for and against, and he was playing bladesworn on the sides.

It really is too early to call anything yet.

Some things are broken, or low key broken, but it ain't as obvious or as outrageous as POF release.

[CalmTheStorm.2364]

A few hot takes:

 

Harbinger:

Damage on voracious arc and devouring cut are way over tuned. I've been hit by a 10k VA and a 7k DC back to back...while wearing heavy armor and using Rabid stats. That kind of damage would one shot many squishier builds.  That's just not healthy for the game mode.

 

Cool spec, though.

 

Vindicator:

Death drop damage is probably over tuned, although it is hugely telegraphed so it's not as bad. Rev just has so many damaging skills you need to dodge that another 8k coming from a dodge can feel kinda oppressive.

 

Saints shield is the real problem, though. Basically a full heall skill with every dodge is just too much, especially as it requires 0 investment in healing power to get 3k each of healing and barrier. Should probably be reduced by 30% or more.

 

Bladesworn:

A one trick pony, and not at all in a good way. The words "unblindable," "unblockable," and "CC" should not be allowed in the same sentence, let alone a single grandmaster trait.  Unfortunately, this is the result of BS being built around the dragon trigger and nothing else. BS would be much healthier if a) gunsaber skills did more damage (esp blooming fire) and had more utility (eg break step having 600 range, cyclone trigger being a full block, etc), and b) if pistol were mainhand or at the very least had a lot more range on the OH skills it currently has. Then you could justify toning down DT (which can hit for 10k and a 2.5s stun on squishier targets). This spec is sadly deeply flawed and needs a lot of reworking so it can both be good at something and not obnoxious in doing so.

 

Mechanist:

I hate this spec with a passion, at least for how it plays in PvP. Basically run around, kite, and block while your big green buddy plays the game for you. PvP did not need another NPC in it, yet here we are.

 

On a more constructive note, the mech should either be less tanky, overclock signet should revive the mech with only 50% health (if it's currently dead when the signet is used), or preferably both. Engineers are very good at being slippery when they want to be, so there has to be meaningful counterplay to their mech pounding on you with powerful ranged autos.  Making the mech easier to focus down would help a lot with that.

 

 

[felix.2386]

4 hours ago, FrownyClown.8402 said:

Whatever man. Gl with being better than everyone else.

Stating facts, no need to feed on your own insecurity.

[felix.2386]

4 hours ago, Crab Fear.1624 said:

Vaanss has been playing the bladesworn in PvP. I saw him in probably 4 matches today, for and against, and he was playing bladesworn on the sides.

It really is too early to call anything yet.

Some things are broken, or low key broken, but it ain't as obvious or as outrageous as POF release.

vaanss is average at best and he bought his titles.

also just because he's playing in ranked, doesnt make the spec good.

if there's two team USA, fighting each in a highly competitive environment with high price, no one would ever think of ever using bladesworn. 

not even that, just normal mAT, you will see as many warrior as bladesworn..oh wait that's none..actually you may see spellbreaker first over bladesworn.

Edited March 7, 2022 by felix.2386

[Downstate.4697]

44 minutes ago, felix.2386 said:

Stating facts, no need to feed on your own insecurity.

Nah youre just a toxic person.  This entire thread is to share your thoughts on the new specs and like usual you take the opportunity to bring down others.  So like I said. Gl with being better than everyone else.

[felix.2386]

14 minutes ago, FrownyClown.8402 said:

Nah youre just a toxic person.  This entire thread is to share your thoughts on the new specs and like usual you take the opportunity to bring down others.  So like I said. Gl with being better than everyone else.

how is stating the fact toxic? then by what wording can i express the fact that bladesworn simply doesnt work in real organized gameplay without hurting your feeling? and response to the other people who say "oh bladesworn is so good, omg, never dies" in a gold bot game. how this isnt another form of toxicity in itself?

nothing personal, really, i don't even know you.

 i would feel way better if some people at least have a slightest idea of what they talking about, then we may actually have an actual valid conversation.

i'm so sorry if you feel so attacked for i stated the facts. i know it hurts because it is fact. because nothing hurt more then facts, frownyclown.

 

Edited March 7, 2022 by felix.2386

[Downstate.4697]

6 minutes ago, felix.2386 said:

how is stating the fact toxic? then by what wording can i express the fact that bladesworn simply doesnt work in real organized gameplay without hurting your feeling? and response to the other people who say "oh bladesworn is so good, omg, never dies" in a gold bot game.

nothing personal, really, i don't even know you.

Well man i do feel insulted by it. I am not the best player but ive been around this game awhile and usually sit in plat 1 and I like to think that what I say isnt coming out of pure lack of experience. I could totally be wrong about bladesworn, but saying blanket statements that everyone else is bad because they dont agree with you is just wrong and helps no one.  Maybe it is my ego causing this entire conversation to happen, but I dont appreciate it and im sure others dont appreciate it either. Anyhow I dont want to derail this topic so feel free to respond to this, but I wont continue to press on it. You can message me if you really want to talk.

[felix.2386]

6 minutes ago, FrownyClown.8402 said:

Well man i do feel insulted by it. I am not the best player but ive been around this game awhile and usually sit in plat 1 and I like to think that what I say isnt coming out of pure lack of experience. I could totally be wrong about bladesworn, but saying blanket statements that everyone else is bad because they dont agree with you is just wrong and helps no one.  Maybe it is my ego causing this entire conversation to happen, but I dont appreciate it and im sure others dont appreciate it either. Anyhow I dont want to derail this topic so feel free to respond to this, but I wont continue to press on it. You can message me if you really want to talk.

you know why i use blanket statements? because they started with blanket statement, if some of the people "who feel attacked by my statement" actually have the slightest idea about what they talk about, i would be happier as we can actually have a conversation, instead of just throwing blanket statements, which is my only way of responding to all the other blanket statement to begin with.

and if anyone feel attacked, and then it is a sign that you should stop posting about your opinion about game jobs and start working on your own skill and make me shut up with real proof, simple as that.

oh wait, people who did that always end up agreeing with me.

Edited March 7, 2022 by felix.2386

[Buran.3796]

16 hours ago, anjo.6143 said:

What u mean necro +1, decaper?

Lacks range damage?

Very lil cc? 

 

aight

   Necro has a ton more of presence in teamfights since they can AoE fear and other cc, and can do it at range, plus the option to corrupt boons. Herald has good teamfight tools which the Vindi lacks (as Elemental Blast and Chaotic Release) but also is better at moving between nodes since Facet of Elements gives Herald perma swiftness.

   So the vindicator is good at delivering AoE burst of damage, but is easy to interrupt him and is not very good at roaming and decaping due lower mobility, which also translates at being worse at chasing targets and constantly pressuring them. 

[anjo.6143]

On 3/6/2022 at 9:13 PM, Crab Fear.1624 said:

Vaanss has been playing the bladesworn in PvP. I saw him in probably 4 matches today, for and against, and he was playing bladesworn on the sides.

It really is too early to call anything yet.

Some things are broken, or low key broken, but it ain't as obvious or as outrageous as POF release.

Those guys complaining that much from bladsworn dont watch boycerino

[Grand Marshal.4098]

Bladesworn can work. But you won't catch me ammo spamming and shout spamming. Where is the fun at that? Did warriors want to become minion master-esque so badly? There is no intiative, no buildup, just spam Gunsaber, use weapon skills sometimes, tactical reload, abuse might.

 

Unyielding dragon will see it's might generation and cc halved cause Spellbreaker FC and Tether are calling from 2020 and before, Tactics or directly shouts will either have decreased potency or we may even see a nerf to shake it off, tactical reload big scary for CMC so it will either stay as is or given a 160 sec cd so it becomes unusable..

 

And I ask you, once the meme dies, will people rly think bladesworn is worth using?

 

I did much better node control on my Hammer SpB for sure. Let zerker rot too. It got a condi build!!! That means it's meta! Sure let's not address defense when people can abuse tactics and strength with bladesworn for sustain. And discipline is ok cause bladesworn meta builds dont utilize it! 

 

🤡

[Vancho.8750]

5 hours ago, Grand Marshal.4098 said:

Bladesworn can work. But you won't catch me ammo spamming and shout spamming. Where is the fun at that? Did warriors want to become minion master-esque so badly? There is no intiative, no buildup, just spam Gunsaber, use weapon skills sometimes, tactical reload, abuse might.

 

Unyielding dragon will see it's might generation and cc halved cause Spellbreaker FC and Tether are calling from 2020 and before, Tactics or directly shouts will either have decreased potency or we may even see a nerf to shake it off, tactical reload big scary for CMC so it will either stay as is or given a 160 sec cd so it becomes unusable..

 

And I ask you, once the meme dies, will people rly think bladesworn is worth using?

 

I did much better node control on my Hammer SpB for sure. Let zerker rot too. It got a condi build!!! That means it's meta! Sure let's not address defense when people can abuse tactics and strength with bladesworn for sustain. And discipline is ok cause bladesworn meta builds dont utilize it! 

 

🤡

I find it weird that people are calling the shout bunker build good, all the while they were complaining about the shout support sb a year ago which did the same thing but on a lesser scale. This is bound to become problematic in the future when they start toning down stuff and as you say after it becomes clear and people start abusing the bunker in mats they will nerf the core traits because BS.

[CalmTheStorm.2364]

1 hour ago, Vancho.8750 said:

I find it weird that people are calling the shout bunker build good, all the while they were complaining about the shout support sb a year ago which did the same thing but on a lesser scale. This is bound to become problematic in the future when they start toning down stuff and as you say after it becomes clear and people start abusing the bunker in mats they will nerf the core traits because BS.

Nerfing the core because of bladesworn is what I am most worried about. That absolutely should not happen. If BsW is causing the problems, BsW is what should be fixed, not tone down the whole rest of the profession.

 

The same philosophy should be extended to all professions, btw. Don't ruin core because of the especs!

[Nimbus Nomad.1237]

S tier: Vindicator, Harbinger

A tier: Mechanist

B tier: Spectre(maybe C)

C tier: 

D tier: Catalyst, Virtuoso, Willbender

Untamed/Bladesworn i have no idea. 

Edited March 10, 2022 by Nimbus Nomad.1237

[Nimbus Nomad.1237]

Just now, Nimbus Nomad.1237 said:

 

 

Edited March 9, 2022 by Nimbus Nomad.1237

[Math.5123]

I would say

S: Mechanist and Vindicator

 

Nothing beats Mechanist on the side node currently. Nothing even stalls it. And vindicator damage to sustain ratio is reminding me of old holo.

 

A: spectre 

 

Can do a bit of everything, good sidenoder, good mobility. 

 

B: bladesworn harbinger 

 

Why play warrior when you can play Mechanist. Harbinger too squishy. 

 

C untamed

 

doesn't have a place. 

 

d: the rest

 

 

 

Edited March 9, 2022 by Math.5123

[Newholiday.8103]

S: Vindicator - as others have stated, dps to sustain output too high.

 

A: Specter, Harbinger - Specter is kinda hard to rate right now, and might be anywhere between B-S tier.  The specters I've seen have been all over the place skill-wise.  Harbinger has an impressive amount of dps, but at least it has its counters.

 

B: Mechanist - It can sustain well, but I can't see why someone would choose this over holo.  It does alright with side-noding and bunkering.

 

D: Catalyst, willbender, virtuoso - Catalyst is on the level on core ele in spvp (terrible).  Sphere mechanic just doesn't work in spvp.  I haven't played against a willbender or virtuoso that has done well.  Virtuoso might be C tier because it can have good damage spikes, but overall it just seems to die too easily.

 

Others - Bladesworn, untamed - No idea.

[grx.8714]

S Tier: Vindicator, Mechanist.

A Tier: Harbinger, Specter.

B Tier: Bladesworn, Untamed.

C Tier: Virtuoso, Willbender.

Z Tier: Catalyst.

 

This is pretty much my opinion based on the matches I had so far.

 

Vindicator needs adjustments, lower damage coefficients on gs and a halved reduced healing and barrier from dodge trait should be fine to put it in line.

Harbinger needs damage tuned down as well, too spammy high reward playstyle.

Mechanist is annoying as hell to deal with in a side node situation, the bot ai is too good. Remove the defiance bar and should be ok.

 

Other specs like bladesworn are very promising, but full of bugs.

Others like catalyst needs to be reworked from zero.

[Dusty.6084]

>A

Vind. I main trapper druid and everybody is spamming power rev which I hard counter. I get that it's busted in tourny but it's overrated in soloQ, although it's still nutty.

 

Mechanist. Right now it has crazy base stats. I think as people learn how to minmax mech it will become a stat check kitten side noder.

 

>B

Willbender. Mobility is cool, confirming kills is good. It's going to be B tier at EOD launch because your team died while you were in your kiting rotation to 20k burst. 

 

Specter. Nerfs to deception hurt the class more than spec strengths. I have a lot of fun playing spec, but thief in general is not going to be a noteworthy sidenoder this season. It would be S tier chronomancer tier kitten if it still had pre nerf deception, but it doesn't. 

 

Virtouso. Basically fresh air rn. Very greedy and usually zerker DH provides more team utility, but can pump numbers if not respected.

 

>C

Catalyst. I mean, take the condi weaver sidenoder and uh, make it worse at chasing and chain cc? Who cares how good it stat checks, it's a mobility meta and catalyst has no mobility. Pretty bad. 

 

>F

Harbinger. Fresh air except you can't kite nearly as well. Want to know a really cool sidenode build that doesn't immediately die to 2v1 pressure? Any other necro build.

 

Untamed. OMFG a 40 second cooldown blink and all it requires is a utility slot? I sure hope the enemy has no defensives once every 40 seconds so that I can do things! When you land your full burst combo and still lose 1v1 to every class you might not be viable.

 

Warrior. Warrior is garbage. The fact people think warrior anything is better than anything is laughable. Power rev meta which hard counters war. Like with ranger, people just want to work 7x as hard to try and force war into meta even though its bad. 

Edited March 10, 2022 by Dusty.6084

[Paradoxoglanis.1904]

I rate everything F tier. EoD ruined pvp.

[jdawgie.1835]

On 3/5/2022 at 5:02 PM, Multicolorhipster.9751 said:

A skill that roots you in place and requires you to sit still for 2 seconds to get full value out of should do more damage than most weapon skills. Not less damage than most weapon skills as it does now.

Not a warrior main anymore but used to be. I have said since beta that if they are gonna root you this way with something SO TELEGRAPHED - that if you plan properly and are able to execute everything in front of you should die. The damage should be WAY WAY higher. Get caught? Well now your dead. Dont want to die? Then watch the movement. This was an opportunity to move pvp back into a direction where you have to actual pay attention to movement in PvP and animations instead of insanity on the floor, and AI BS. Really disappointed for warrior mains. TBH I haven't bought the expansion. First time since a release I didn't buy, and I don't think I will be buying it. So many wasted opportunities. 

[oscuro.9720]

On 3/5/2022 at 5:02 PM, Multicolorhipster.9751 said:

The power coefficients for Dragon Trigger and Gunsaber skills are also way too low. A skill that roots you in place and requires you to sit still for 2 seconds to get full value out of should do more damage than most weapon skills. Not less damage than most weapon skills as it does now. It would only make C-tier because it makes for a surprisingly good bunker with MMR, and that's a really boring and unimpactful way to play. Spellbreaker is still 10x better at this mind you.

Don’t forget the 1/4s activation time to begin charging and the 1/2s cast time of the actual skill. You end up at a net 3.25s cast time if you want to go full power.

[Azure The Heartless.3261]

There's no S rank. The limitations imposed on the classes in tier A are fair enough.

A.) Mechanist, Vindicator, Harbinger, Specter.

B.) Virtuoso, Untamed

C.) Catalyst

D.) Bladesworn*, Willbender

*Bladesworn is only D rank because shoutsworn currently compensates for the egregious limitations imposed on the class for access to a burst that not only does less damage than bursts from group A but can be easily evaded, including being jumped over. Without shoutsworn consideration this is D-. 

I don't think anything needs a nerf at this time.

Tier B is serviceable but could use QoL, Tier C can work with great effort but needs help, Tier D needs help. 

1 hour ago, Paradoxoglanis.1904 said:

I rate everything F tier. EoD ruined pvp.

It wasn't EoD that ruined it, but it will likely be the desperate struggle to adjust numbers on EoD specs taking the forefront that prevents it from getting better. 

 

Edited March 10, 2022 by Azure The Heartless.3261

[Paradoxoglanis.1904]

1 hour ago, Azure The Heartless.3261 said:

There's no S rank. The limitations imposed on the classes in tier A are fair enough.

A.) Mechanist, Vindicator, Harbinger, Specter.

B.) Virtuoso, Untamed

C.) Catalyst

D.) Bladesworn*, Willbender

*Bladesworn is only D rank because shoutsworn currently compensates for the egregious limitations imposed on the class for access to a burst that not only does less damage than bursts from group A but can be easily evaded, including being jumped over. Without shoutsworn consideration this is D-. 

I don't think anything needs a nerf at this time.

Tier B is serviceable but could use QoL, Tier C can work with great effort but needs help, Tier D needs help. 

It wasn't EoD that ruined it, but it will likely be the desperate struggle to adjust numbers on EoD specs taking the forefront that prevents it from getting better. 

 

The class mechanics and design is what killed it for me. Vindicator dodge is dumber than mirage or daredevil. Specter is a tankier thief with even more teleports. Bladesworn is a 1 ability gimmick. Mechanist and untamed are new AI specs. Catalyst is basically just visual noise. The only specs that I think can be salvaged without redesigning the class are harbinger, virtuoso, and maybe willbender.

[Ragnar.4257]

37 minutes ago, felix.2386 said:

In what way bladesworn is full of promises other then wrecking noobs like you.

it is garbage as side noder, it can not play +1, it's the slowest warrior, it can not support, it's team fight capability is minimum.

all it has is over average sustain, so they can out damage noobs who can't do damage properly.

 

it is literally worse in every way and role possible compared to spellbreaker, with spellbreaker already completely out of meta

i fail to see how some people can think bladesworn is promising.

unless you also see spellbreaker as promising LOL

like seriously, use logic

In what sense is it "the slowest warrior" ?