Anyone else can't stand Joon?

[Obliviscaris.6937]

4 hours ago, Ashantara.8731 said:

Taimi let us in

That's still trespassing, Taimi had no right to do so. I don't care if she's a leper. 

[Felipe.1807]

3 hours ago, Teratus.2859 said:

Sure we could say Joon was being arrogant and overly defensive of her plans but we can say the same thing about our characters as well.
Doesn't matter if we were right in the end, in the moment it was a difference of opinion between two people who were trying to save the world their own way.

The same cant be said about every other villain? Say Bangar for example? You have this Commander guy with a dragon pet of his own and you feel you and your race are to much at a disaventage and its time to level the play field...he never saw himself as the bad guy, he just wanted the Charr and the Blood Legion to be able to fight in case the Commander went against them.

[Westenev.5289]

2 hours ago, pallas.8150 said:

You realize the Commander shows Joon proof that he/she is innocent, Joon acknowledges that, and then still tries to kill the character anyways.

Did we play different stories? Because that's what I (and like everyone else) played.

 

Question: Does Joon attack the commander unprovoked, or does the commander provoke Joon by demanding  something "Unacceptable! Unacceptable! Absolutely unacceptable!" first without any ounce of tact, explanation or negotiation?

Edited March 14, 2022 by Westenev.5289

[Obfuscate.6430]

I got villain vibes from Joon through most of the story and was surprised by how things turned out. I didn't trust her. 

[Desh.7028]

42 minutes ago, Westenev.5289 said:

Does Joon attack the commander unprovoked, or does the commander provoke Joon by demanding  something "Unacceptable! Unacceptable! Absolutely unacceptable!" first without any ounce of tact or negotiation?

 

Time is running out and why tact? The commander just had to deal with all the death lasers, not Joon. We're also not just representing ourselves but Aurene as well, since we are her champion. And at the entrance of the mansion we struck a different tone. Obviously the commander is slightly annoyed by wasting precious time wrangling with the the jade spoon fed brat's toys.

Any argument that might fly when Joon sent her Jade stuff after us at the start goes out the window after she acknowledges that we didn't blow up her reactor. She just can't stand not getting her way even though she's wrong and we know without having to guess because Taimi is really smart and Aurene who's cozying up to grandma certainly has more insight into the state of Soo-Won than Joon does.

If only Soo-Won had a champion who could've prevented all of that nonsense.

 

26 minutes ago, Obfuscate.6430 said:

I got villain vibes from Joon through most of the story and was surprised by how things turned out. I didn't trust her. 

 

Somewhat by design. E.g. the character uses some emotes and sarcasm during the reactor tour for example which nudges the player into a certain direction. And Joon is quite a lot.

[SweetPotato.7456]

11 hours ago, ASP.8093 said:

"I wish I could arrest her." / "I wish I could kill her."

She's the Empress' sister and probably the richest and most powerful individual citizen in Canthan society. You are not getting either of these outcomes unless the storyline is "let's kill this entire government and see what happens next."

I don't remember the exact words, during the story, she did mention she get special treatment because she is the sole provider of all the power.  Or was it feared her. 

Edited March 14, 2022 by SweetPotato.7456

[Westenev.5289]

1 hour ago, Desh.7028 said:

 

Time is running out and why tact? The commander just had to deal with all the death lasers, not Joon. We're also not just representing ourselves but Aurene as well, since we are her champion. And at the entrance of the mansion we struck a different tone. Obviously the commander is slightly annoyed by wasting precious time wrangling with the the jade spoon fed brat's toys.

Any argument that might fly when Joon sent her Jade stuff after us at the start goes out the window after she acknowledges that we didn't blow up her reactor. She just can't stand not getting her way even though she's wrong and we know without having to guess because Taimi is really smart and Aurene who's cozying up to grandma certainly has more insight into the state of Soo-Won than Joon does.

If only Soo-Won had a champion who could've prevented all of that nonsense.

 

Joon sees herself as Soo-Won's protector, and I got the impression that she was a little more attached to Soo-Won than a "business transaction" (ie. Soo Won seems genuinely grateful to sit in that reactor and help mortals, so Joon may feel gratification for helping the dragon). Remember that Joon hasn't talked to Soo Won since before the reactor incident, does not know what the commander knows, and has no way to verify that Soo Won is a lost cause. All she has is the commanders ramblings, which they refuse to elaborate on.

 

Poor communication on the part of the Pact Commander lead to that conflict, imo.

Edited March 14, 2022 by Westenev.5289

[Ashantara.8731]

6 hours ago, Tungsten Monarch.6058 said:

I can't stand Marjory and Kashmir, how do I rid myself of these two, they disgust me.

It's Kasmeer, not Kashmir. And what is your issue? H.omo- and bisexuality have always existed, even in the fauna - therefore they are as natural and normal as heterosexuality. The only thing disgusting is your hateful attitude, to be honest.

Anyway, what do those two have to do with Joon? This thread is about her.

  

43 minutes ago, Westenev.5289 said:

Poor communication on the part of the Pact Commander lead to that conflict, imo.

Hmm, but the reason we went to see Joon was to update her on things and de-escalate the situation. She just wouldn't listen.

Edited March 14, 2022 by Ashantara.8731

[Desh.7028]

10 minutes ago, Westenev.5289 said:

Poor communication on the part of the Pact Commander lead to that conflict, imo.

 

Flimsy excuse for attempted murder if you ask me.

 

We brought her proof of our innocence and she took note of that and then went back to being herself in no time. This is pretty important for judging Joon's character and you keep ignoring it. We no longer are a trespasser who does wrong for the right reason, now it's her move and she choses violence.

Sure some more words other than "you can't" and "there's no time" might've helped but those words were true and to the point. She simply can't admit being wrong and despite knowing that unlike her we have a way to know about the state of Soo-Won because of Aurene whom she also met she's adamant about her way being the only one.

 

13 minutes ago, Westenev.5289 said:

Not to mention, if Soo Won is killed, it could lead to a breakdown of society due to the supply of Dragonjade being cut off. Imagine what would happen if we ran out of fossil fuels today; there would be chaos!

 

 

Ironically not Joon's main concern. Her legacy and power being diminished on the other hand is not something she's willing to risk even if a little Void tearing apart reality here and there might be the result. On the guided tour she also speaks about why she's so willing to let the outsiders (that's us) in ... because that also means her Jade products can get out. She literally tells you to your face who she is and what she's about. The PR stuff about improving peoples lives from the owner of a monopoly (which also makes kitten sure there can't be any competition in the slightest) has hardly any weight no matter how true it rings - remember that Jade tech also kept Canthans away from researching alternatives as well and it needs to be shown that Jade tech is improving peoples lives significantly more or more efficiently than any alternative for this angle to carry any weight.

It is true in Taimis case although it is unclear whether the Jade part or Joon's fresh eyes and smarts were the real solution.

 

19 minutes ago, Westenev.5289 said:

Joon sees herself as Soo-Won's protector

 

Soo-Won is also the source of her power and status. The reactor wasn't even Joon's idea even though without Soo-Won telling us otherwise I would've guessed that it was.

 

1 minute ago, Ashantara.8731 said:

It's Kasmeer, not Kashmir. And what is your issue?

 

Lesbian pixels from the looks of it. Pretty sure they would phrase it as "that woke alphabet soup" or something along those lines.

Also not enough attention as a child but I'm now really reading between the line(s) here.

[Quench.7091]

23 minutes ago, Westenev.5289 said:

 

Joon sees herself as Soo-Won's protector, and I got the impression that she was a little more attached to Soo-Won than a "business transaction" (ie. Soo Won seems genuinely grateful to sit in that reactor and help mortals, so Joon may feel gratification for helping the dragon). Remember that Joon hasn't talked to Soo Won since before the reactor incident, does not know what the commander knows, and has no way to verify that Soo Won is a lost cause. All she has is the commanders ramblings, which they refuse to elaborate on.

 

Poor communication on the part of the Pact Commander lead to that conflict, imo.

She established a monopoly over that power and sold it at prices that the commoners couldn't afford. This lead to the Jade Brotherhood uprising and gang warfare. She's definitely a gray character.

[Ashantara.8731]

2 hours ago, Westenev.5289 said:

Joon sees herself as Soo-Won's protector, and I got the impression that she was a little more attached to Soo-Won than a "business transaction"

Interesting. Apart from her post-"Lady Joon's Estate" story mission portrayal, which pictured her as a woman who cared for Soo-Won to some extent, to me she came across like a "mad scientist" who saw her life's work endangered, by an outsider nonetheless who had come to her home uninvited and was about to destroy her genius work and rip her of her grandeur. That's what put me off the most, I guess, alongside the attempted murder that was born out of said mindset.

2 hours ago, Desh.7028 said:

Flimsy excuse for attempted murder if you ask me.

We brought her proof of our innocence and she took note of that and then went back to being herself in no time. This is pretty important for judging Joon's character and you keep ignoring it. We no longer are a trespasser who does wrong for the right reason, now it's her move and she choses violence.

Sure some more words other than "you can't" and "there's no time" might've helped but those words were true and to the point. She simply can't admit being wrong and despite knowing that unlike her we have a way to know about the state of Soo-Won because of Aurene whom she also met she's adamant about her way being the only one.

Exactly.

So calling her a "gray" character is benevolent. 😉

Edited March 14, 2022 by Ashantara.8731

[ASP.8093]

I do think a big problem with the EoD story is that you're basically aligned with every single "we control actual territory on the map" type faction. Which means when you go explore the map, it's kinda like… I'm just hanging around and occasionally there's a few baddies to fight. Seitung struck an okay balance with this because it felt like a little vacation spot where you go fishing and stuff, but then you get to Kaineng and… well, it's this huge city and it feels like there's not much to do other than wait around for a few metas. Compare to GW1 where you were navigating this tricky sprawl full of nasty assassin gangs and some of the trickiest enemies most players had faced up to them (the infected).

[Knighthonor.4061]

18 hours ago, Ashantara.8731 said:

I don't know about you, but I find her unbearable.

I don't get why we didn't get her arrested in the end after she had tried to kill us twice, once via her security in the main wing of her estate, then - and that is the actual crime - after she had acknowledged our innocence.

The Commander's behavior was pretty much like, "Ohhh, don't worry! People are trying to kill me every day, and I have forgiven every single one of them." - Rrright.

She seems to have the emotional stability of a child, justifying attempted murder with protecting her life's work. And the Commander honors this attitude by completely ignoring that she was trying to kill us.

Does this strike anybody else as extremely inconceivable?

Joon vs Braham.  Who more annoying? She seem worse honestly 

[Obliviscaris.6937]

1 hour ago, Desh.7028 said:

Also not enough attention as a child but I'm now really reading between the line(s) here.

 

This is called projecting. 

[Knighthonor.4061]

10 hours ago, AliamRationem.5172 said:

How dare you bring this "stand your ground" politics into this forum!

Thats not stand your ground. That's the Castle Law

[AlenaVolkova.8179]

You need to understand that this Jade gizmo is her life work, and yes, she's proud of it, you cannot deny that.

 

Thing is, in Cantha, you saw how Ministry of Defense madling with Joon's business, when she wants to ensure that Jade techs are always up to date, to make sure the city is safe, should there be any 2nd disaster just like Zhaitan one. I am sure if you're a scientist or a creator for some brilliant invention, and some guy constantly rub it on your face, claiming your invention is rubbish, you'd be very annoyed, too.

 

Not to mention, the fact is when reactor crumbled, she still considered us as the ones who must be held accountable since we brought in Mal Trin, not to mention, it's quite funny there are no cameras in there to see the whole actions and branded us criminals. But anyway, evading authority and not in contact with Joon is definitely a bad move to make the misunderstanding further.

 

Which is actually understandable at the end, if I were Joon, I'd be suspect of you, too, even if you brought me evidence. And yes, I will definitely not be denied of my genius by a puny commander that kept claiming what I'm doing is wrong.

If you were her, you'd be extremely annoyed, too. This is her life work, you don't tell someone that they're wrong head on after they spent years of works in it.

[Goettel.4389]

Well I've turned off dialog long ago and just skip through story, so I wouldn't know.

[Zola.6197]

9 hours ago, Felipe.1807 said:

The same cant be said about every other villain? Say Bangar for example? You have this Commander guy with a dragon pet of his own and you feel you and your race are to much at a disaventage and its time to level the play field...he never saw himself as the bad guy, he just wanted the Charr and the Blood Legion to be able to fight in case the Commander went against them.

He also wanted to end the peace treaty with the humans and Make The Charr Great Again. Comparing Bangar and Joon doesn’t add up. Bangar was a racial supremacist and an egomaniac who thought he could leash an elder dragon because all he understood was brute force and manipulation (and therefore couldn’t imagine a mutually respectful/caring relationship like the one between The Commander and Aurene). He was secretly funding/supporting the charr Renegades for years, and he killed General Almorra Soulkeeper in cold blood (even Ryland blanched at that). Bangar’s motives for going against The Commander and pursuing Jormag weren’t as simple as you make them out to be. He didn’t care about saving anyone; time and again it was illustrated other people were little more than tools to him. He wanted personal power and to create a world where his ideal (ruthless) version of the charr would be on top at the expense of others. He has far more in common with Minister Li than Joon.

[Imba.9451]

8 hours ago, Ashantara.8731 said:

It's Kasmeer, not Kashmir. And what is your issue? H.omo- and bisexuality have always existed, even in the fauna - therefore they are as natural and normal as heterosexuality. The only thing disgusting is your hateful attitude, to be honest.

Anyway, what do those two have to do with Joon? This thread is about her.

  

 

I would have liked to argue that not everyone who dislikes a homosexual character does so because he or she is against homosexuality. I mean, I find them both incredibly boring, but I actually like the way GW2 handles homosexuality, like a completely normal thing in a fantasy world. That wouldn't work in a world thats moreakin to the real world, as there would be alot more people actually having issues with homosexuality.

It`s one of the few thing I actually think Anet handles rather well, despite me going on a rant about almost everything else, and characters suddenly being non-binary without that EVER being established in the GW2-universe is one of the thing I really do not like, as it breaks consistency.

 

But sadly, the commenter you were refering to already established a simple dislike for homosexuality.

My argument still stands though: Don't immediatly assume people to be homophobic, because they don't wave around rainbow-flags when homosexuality is displayed in characters. I know, we are few, but some people actually are capable of critizising characters for more than their fictional preferance for a certain type of genitalia.

[ProtoGunner.4953]

Nah she's cool. I like kitten characters.

[Teratus.2859]

15 hours ago, Desh.7028 said:

At that point she very well knows who we are. To her that's the champion of Aurene and Aurene is a friend of her dragon friend.

True although she also knows that the Commander is still an individual with their own opinions and agendas etc.
Aurene too.

She maybe willing to give us the benefit of the doubt when we first arrived but that doesn't mean she trusts either of us, nor does she have to.

Trust is earned at the end of the day and to be fair we've not exactly developed a good reputation by that point in the story, even if a lot of it wasn't our fault.

15 hours ago, Desh.7028 said:

Dead.

Survived by some miracle of shoddy writing but we sure as hell tried.

Indeed lol
But we didn't want to kill him, and he didn't give us a choice either.

And yes definitely shoddy writing XD

15 hours ago, Desh.7028 said:

Except of course the commander has shown great interest in battlefield justice and giving no quarter, an actual war crime in the real world.

True but this isn't the real world 😛 

It's not always the case though either, there are a good few moments in the story, especially the early personal story where a character is defeated, surrenders and is instead arrested, there are even moments where we have a choice to spare someone or kill them.
There are even times where our character chooses to spare someone and one of our allies goes NOPE! too dangerous they die!! 

I don't think our Commander is quite so murderous as some may think tbh.
In fact even in this expansion they spare several characters and try to plead with at least one to surrender but she chooses a fight to the death.

[Teratus.2859]

12 hours ago, Felipe.1807 said:

The same cant be said about every other villain? Say Bangar for example? You have this Commander guy with a dragon pet of his own and you feel you and your race are to much at a disaventage and its time to level the play field...he never saw himself as the bad guy, he just wanted the Charr and the Blood Legion to be able to fight in case the Commander went against them.

I don't disagree 🙂 

It was definitely one of those "road to hell is paved with good intentions" situations.
This is a very common trend for most villains and bad factions in fact.

Tbh that's kind of why I liked the Elder Dragons, there are so many complicated villains who think they are actually the good guys etc that it's kind of refreshing to get antagonists who are just your old school burn the world types.
They tend to feel far more dangerous and unpredictable to me, and in some ways that makes them just a bit more exciting at times.

[Tails.9372]

On 3/13/2022 at 9:38 AM, Ashantara.8731 said:

Anyone else can't stand Joon?

Be careful who you complain about or do you want the devs to chain her to the commander, like they did with Braham, that badly?

[Tungsten Monarch.6058]

4 hours ago, Imba.9451 said:

But sadly, the commenter you were refering to already established a simple dislike for homosexuality.

I also find Braham Eirsson as a disgusting NPC forced to interact with. Are you going to now make a false claim that I have a simple dislike for Norns? ... I find all three NPC's equally disgusting characters for various reasons, same with Joon. When you turn a virtue into a vice, it ruins the entire story line, like forced ketchup on prime rib, and I lose complete interest in them. They are not my characters friends in the story, they are forced on my character and on me the player.

[Imba.9451]

10 minutes ago, Tungsten Monarch.6058 said:

I also find Braham Eirsson as a disgusting NPC forced to interact with. Are you going to now make a false claim that I have a simple dislike for Norns? ... I find all three NPC's equally disgusting characters for various reasons, same with Joon. When you turn a virtue into a vice, it ruins the entire story line, like forced ketchup on prime rib, and I lose complete interest in them. They are not my characters friends in the story, they are forced on my character and on me the player.

Your Braham example has nothing to do with what you described Kasmeer and Majory to be.

You throw around "virtue vs vice" quite alot. And from the context of this conversation (as you clearly avoided to be more precise with your words), I guess that you consider homosexuality to be a vice, by reason of it being "unnatural", and it being "turned into a a virtue".

 

Did I get that wrong? Please tell me if I got that wrong. I really hope that I got that wrong, because if not, then the words I would like to adress to you would result in me probably getting a ban from this forum.